Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[Frank Lee]

Oof.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/ufa/point-guard/

Yikes. Right now from that list it looks like Canaan is the best fit for our team. I'd be keeping an eye on Brogdon still for a trade if I were the Suns FO because he's backing up another player.

You think the Bucks will deal Brogan with Rich Paul lurking the wings. Bledsoe is going to the highest bidder and it may not be Milwaukee

[Frank Lee]

Book at point guard is the best option we have… With Brandon Knightmare as temporary back up. He’s not going away

[gaspar]

Being a young team, I don't think b2b's hurt us as much as teams with vets.

I think it could be the opposite. Vets are used to it and know better how to preserve energy for the gruelling NBA schedule.

We've also played quite a few games against teams with big name players out.

The same applies to most teams. We also played a few games against teams at their full strength, where other teams got to play against them when they were banged up.

[gaspar]

Avery Bradley as PG next to Booker will add 15 wins to the Suns team... easily.

I think McD is going to offer him a deal.

OR


Suns stay put with Knight, Ulis, Canaan rotation.

Then offer a max deal to Cousins.



A PG or C is what Suns will make a move for IMO...

Let me get this right you believe that point guard (and i use the term extremely loosely) who has had the highest average of 2.2 assist a game on 30+ minutes is going to have a plus impact on scoring on this team that would lead to us winning 15 more games and is shooting only .425 this year? what is it that you think will help the Suns win more? is he a really good cheerleader from the sidelines?

He's a lock down defender who can guard up to smaller SFs


Secondly he can bail the 3pt shot nicely.


Thirdly he does not need the ball to make an impact at all. He is very smart both sides.

You're looking at box score numbers only. But Avery Bradley is more than capable in averaging more assists per game than what he is currently showing.



If you watch him play he is extremely smart both sides and makes the right plays almost every play.



But the thing is the Suns must have a better discipline defensively.

He really, REALLY isn't. Bradley misses open teammates all the time. Passing has always been his big weakness. Perhaps it's you who should watch him more closely.

[Qwigglez]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1653764&p=61711874#p61711874

Anyone down for that trade?

Wouldn't give three picks. Chandler contract is much better than Howard's. But Kemba can play. That part is interesting. Maybe simplify it.

Monroe, Miami 18, MIL 18 for Kemba? Maybe that.

My worry is that the Suns will be basically just as good as they were with Bledsoe but with one less 1st to show for it.

This is my feeling too. I thought about Kemba, but realized I was only considering him because he was available and not because he was a good fit. We need to continue to be patient.

Was just throwing stuff out there. I would actually prefer Chandler over Dwight. I don't believe that Dwight is a locker room cancer however I do question whether or not he cares about winning enough and the effect that could have on our young players. If we got a motivated Dwight that wants to show he is still capable of doing damage in the playoffs, then maybe I'd consider it, but we aren't likely to make the playoffs this season anyway. The following season maybe, but then we'd have an expiring Kemba and Dwight to worry about, and if we made the playoffs next season I would anticipate our cap space being out of control trying to keep them both while having a maxed out Devin Booker.

Really though, I'm more inclined to trade our picks for an upgrade rather than sit on our hands and hope to get in lucky in the draft. I would prefer to make a trade that doesn't include giving up Monroe's expiring that way we still have the option of getting a top tier free agent this off-season.

[gaspar]

I think our biggest issue that we dont have a point guard that is a pass first guard (starter level) for this reason i dont think is that type of passer and i sure as heck dont think that Sexton is anywhere close to that. I have said it before i am sick of combo guards claiming to be points.

I'll say this again. People need to think outside the box in terms of a pass first point guard. We don't need that. Really, we don't. Neither Kobe or Jordan played next to a pass first point guard. What we really need is a point guard who can hit the three, play really good defense, and occasionally handle the ball. Seriously, the ball needs to be in Booker's hands to initiate the offense. If Daniels played decent defense then he would be ideal. Jackson and Reed should be candidates for the type of player we want to put next to Booker. Jackson needs to rebuild his shot to have any hope of lasting in the league but if he does then he could play next to Booker. Reed supposedly has the shot and defensive chops (7' wing span) plus some ball handling abilities. He may be the exactly what the doctor ordered.

I disagree with both of you.

First of all, pass first point guards don't really exist anymore. The players that are labeled as pass-first point guards in reality are pass-first, pass-second and pass-third point guards who usually do more harm than good for their teams' offenses (like Rubio).

Second of all, to maximize Booker's potential we need someone who can do more than jus hit the open three and occasionally handle the ball. We need someone who can take the pressure off of Devin, someone who can play as the lead guard when Book gets constantly doubled.

IMO the dreaded "combo guard" is EXACTLY what this team needs alongside Booker. We need a younger Bledsoe with a better three point shooting or someone like that. Can Knight improve his decision making to be that guy? Most likely not. Is there anyone else in the league who's available and fits our timeline? I don't think so. We have to roll with what we have and wait for the right opportunity. Don't settle for a guy who's better than what we currently have, but isn't what we are really looking for.

[thamadkant]

Let me get this right you believe that point guard (and i use the term extremely loosely) who has had the highest average of 2.2 assist a game on 30+ minutes is going to have a plus impact on scoring on this team that would lead to us winning 15 more games and is shooting only .425 this year? what is it that you think will help the Suns win more? is he a really good cheerleader from the sidelines?

He's a lock down defender who can guard up to smaller SFs


Secondly he can bail the 3pt shot nicely.


Thirdly he does not need the ball to make an impact at all. He is very smart both sides.

You're looking at box score numbers only. But Avery Bradley is more than capable in averaging more assists per game than what he is currently showing.



If you watch him play he is extremely smart both sides and makes the right plays almost every play.



But the thing is the Suns must have a better discipline defensively.

He really, REALLY isn't. Bradley misses open teammates all the time. Passing has always been his big weakness. Perhaps it's you who should watch him more closely.

Lol I do actually. Watched tons of Celtics and pistons games the last few years.

You put him in a more pass tempo offense and instruct him to rotate the ball up top and he'll get a couple more assists easily. He isn't a 7 or 8 assist type of guard... But around 3.5 to 4.5 apg is reasonable for him on a higher possesion and tempo offense. And with Booker as main ball handler and Bradley as a lock down defender and 3pt shooter... I can definitely see him get around 4 apg mark.


I think you need to watch him in context more and consider the offensive scheme he is on.

[thamadkant]

With Booker, to maximise his skill set. You need to look at Warriors back court. Booker is a combo of Curry and Thompson a bit... Obviously not the shooter nor dribbler Curry is... But the ability to put the ball on the floor and get a long range shot is there.

You need a shut down defender who can switch easily and still be impactful.


Warren is a very good scorer and a pesky defender on the ball. But his lack of 3pt range and length to contest shots makes him ideal as 6th man on a playoff team where he can focus on putting up 15 to 17ppg off the bench.


Get an inside threath center who would crash the offensive boards and a Draymond Green type PF who can cover anyone defensively.... And you have a good recipe. Bender is suppose to be that player but not there yet.


I think ultimately McD will go for Cousins and hope Knight comes back well as he can be a floor stretcher at PG

[gaspar]

He's a lock down defender who can guard up to smaller SFs


Secondly he can bail the 3pt shot nicely.


Thirdly he does not need the ball to make an impact at all. He is very smart both sides.

You're looking at box score numbers only. But Avery Bradley is more than capable in averaging more assists per game than what he is currently showing.



If you watch him play he is extremely smart both sides and makes the right plays almost every play.



But the thing is the Suns must have a better discipline defensively.

He really, REALLY isn't. Bradley misses open teammates all the time. Passing has always been his big weakness. Perhaps it's you who should watch him more closely.

Lol I do actually. Watched tons of Celtics and pistons games the last few years.

You put him in a more pass tempo offense and instruct him to rotate the ball up top and he'll get a couple more assists easily. He isn't a 7 or 8 assist type of guard... But around 3.5 to 4.5 apg is reasonable for him on a higher possesion and tempo offense. And with Booker as main ball handler and Bradley as a lock down defender and 3pt shooter... I can definitely see him get around 4 apg mark.


I think you need to watch him in context more and consider the offensive scheme he is on.

Dude, what context? It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. Avery Bradley is a bad passer. There's no system that would make him see things he's never seen in his career.

The context is that Bradley averages 2.2 assists per 36 minutes in his career. Sophomore Marquese Chriss averages 2.1.
In 441 career games he recorded more than 4 assists 20 times. In 107 games he had 0 assists (in 52 of those games he played 25+ minutes). In another 109 games he had just 1 assist (in 85 of those games he played 25+ minutes). His career high in assists is 7 (twice). Isaiah "Black Hole" Canaan had 7 or more assists twice in 7 games as a Sun.

That's just numbers. When you watch him play, it's obvious that he doesn't make complex reads on the fly. Whenever he touches the ball he either shoots it or, if he doesn't have an open look, he passes it back to the top. He's very conservative with his passing and never tries anything creative, that's why his turnovers are very low for a guard. To expect him to "easily" average 4 apg by "rotating the ball up top" is simply ridiculous.

[jcsunsfan]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1653764&p=61711874#p61711874

Anyone down for that trade?

Wouldn't give three picks. Chandler contract is much better than Howard's. But Kemba can play. That part is interesting. Maybe simplify it.

Monroe, Miami 18, MIL 18 for Kemba? Maybe that.

My worry is that the Suns will be basically just as good as they were with Bledsoe but with one less 1st to show for it.

This is my feeling too. I thought about Kemba, but realized I was only considering him because he was available and not because he was a good fit. We need to continue to be patient.

It is so much easier to gather assets than it is to put together a cohesive team. Rebuilding sort of looks like this.

1. Sell vets for assets.
2. Secure assets through trades, draft and free agency.
3. Find a young star to build around.
4. Add a complementary star.
5. Build a team that fits those two pieces.
5. Secure the final piece (star player) through trade or free agency.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[jcsunsfan]

Wouldn't give three picks. Chandler contract is much better than Howard's. But Kemba can play. That part is interesting. Maybe simplify it.

Monroe, Miami 18, MIL 18 for Kemba? Maybe that.

My worry is that the Suns will be basically just as good as they were with Bledsoe but with one less 1st to show for it.

This is my feeling too. I thought about Kemba, but realized I was only considering him because he was available and not because he was a good fit. We need to continue to be patient.

It is so much easier to gather assets than it is to put together a cohesive team. Rebuilding sort of looks like this.

1. Sell vets for assets.
2. Secure assets through trades, draft and free agency.
3. Find a young star to build around.
4. Add a complementary star.
5. Build a team that fits those two pieces.
5. Secure the final piece (star player) through trade or free agency.
6. Adjust if necessary.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[jredsaz]

Really though, I'm more inclined to trade our picks for an upgrade rather than sit on our hands and hope to get in lucky in the draft. I would prefer to make a trade that doesn't include giving up Monroe's expiring that way we still have the option of getting a top tier free agent this off-season.

I think we have to se what happens over the next month. The schedule argument is interesting. Are the Suns 4.5 games out of the 7th spot because they played a weak schedule or because the young talent has improved under Triano?

If the Suns lose a couple games in the standings by late January then I think it's clear they will sell/stand pat. However, if they can pick up a game or two I can see them making a move if the right player is available.

Have to say that I agree generally, tho. Adding two or possibly three rookies to this roster in the off season isn't ideal. Using one or more of those picks to make a move is preferable.

[Saberestar]

Oof.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/ufa/point-guard/

What about Shabazz Napier?

He is playing really well with Lillard out for the Blazers. I think he is gonna be a RFA, but they have Lillard and McCollum on max contracts, so I don't expect them to pay Napier. He is 26, so he is entering his prime.

He is shooting .448% from three this season and he can create his own shot. Defensively he is small, but not Ulis small. He is smart defensively and I think he can be average on that side of the floor.

Good option IMO.

[jredsaz]

With Booker, to maximise his skill set. You need to look at Warriors back court. Booker is a combo of Curry and Thompson a bit... Obviously not the shooter nor dribbler Curry is... But the ability to put the ball on the floor and get a long range shot is there.

You need a shut down defender who can switch easily and still be impactful.


Warren is a very good scorer and a pesky defender on the ball. But his lack of 3pt range and length to contest shots makes him ideal as 6th man on a playoff team where he can focus on putting up 15 to 17ppg off the bench.


Get an inside threath center who would crash the offensive boards and a Draymond Green type PF who can cover anyone defensively.... And you have a good recipe. Bender is suppose to be that player but not there yet.


I think ultimately McD will go for Cousins and hope Knight comes back well as he can be a floor stretcher at PG

I just don't see Cousins coming here after the Bledsoe situation.

[darealjuice]

Yeah the Boogie Train has left the station after Bledsoe jettisoned himself off the Suns lol

[Book1Nation]

Read on Twitter

[NavLDO]

So, continuing a thought from one of the game threads, I believe, and based upon the evidence, we have two players that are easily ranked in the top 5-7 at their respective positions in the way of production in Warren and Booker.

Funny, because on the Dunc'd on pod a few weeks ago, they didn't list TJ in the top, like, 30 or so small forwards. My ears got hot listening to that ****.

They also said Booker wasn't one of the top 10 under 23 players in the NBA. Crazy.

Well, not sure what they are basing that on--likely BPM, which two of the key components it takes into its ranking players is 3PT% and Asst%, which, we all know, are not only Warren's weak points, but they are almost non-existent, which REALLY skews his numbers. So fine, let them think that way. But at the end of the day, for example, of these 5, who would you want as your SF, taking into account salaries...

Rob Covington at 5yrs/$61M
Andrew Wiggins at 4yrs/$146.5M
Tobias Harris at 4yrs/$64M
Harrison Barnes at 4yrs/$94.5M

...or...

TJ Warren at 5yrs/$53M

https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?direction=desc&player_ids%5B%5D=1463&player_ids%5B%5D=1269&player_ids%5B%5D=1374&player_ids%5B%5D=1476&player_ids%5B%5D=603&season=2017&sort=field_goal_percentage&utf8=%E2%9C%93

Anyway...on Booker, they are just nuts. Plain and simple.

The fact is, Warren and Booker are, without a doubt, as I mentioned, top 5-7 at their position in the NBA, all things considered. And Len?? Easily top 10. Laugh all you want, but compare his numbers to other Centers...go ahead and pick a category and try to put Len at the bottom of the stack. Stls and 3FGA/%...that's it. Every other Category he's squarely in the middle somewhere between 4th and 9th.

https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?direction=desc&player_ids%5B%5D=1424&player_ids%5B%5D=1264&player_ids%5B%5D=1497&player_ids%5B%5D=129&player_ids%5B%5D=289&player_ids%5B%5D=243&player_ids%5B%5D=298&player_ids%5B%5D=1516&player_ids%5B%5D=3070&player_ids%5B%5D=149&player_ids%5B%5D=1500&player_ids%5B%5D=519&player_ids%5B%5D=1378&player_ids%5B%5D=1419&season=2017&sort=per48_defensive_rebounds&utf8=%E2%9C%93

It'll never happen, so I'm bold enough to say, LOL, that next season, IF...McD starts...

Doncic or Trae Young (or a FA/Traded for PG) / Booker / Warren / Bender or Chriss (committed to; not 20 MPG each like this yr) / Len

...for the majority of the season (over 65 games or so)--we are a solid playoff team (at least 7th Seed)...guaranteed. But nope...

Len will gone. Bender and Chriss will still play this tag-team game they are playing now, and we'll have some combo of Knight/Canaan/Ulis and another 2nd Rd project or other scrub-level talent FA at PG.

You all tell me...given McD's track record, which is more likely to happen??

Our Assets used to good use by targeting a single PG + a single Center of the Future (be it Len or a Lotto-picked Center + a Lotto or high-level FA PG)...AND...a choice is made and one of our PFs is committed to as our future starter...

...OR...

...more of the same as this year, only BK is added to the mix, Chandler remains the starting Center, and Chriss continues to start, but still only averaging 2-240 MPG with Bender coming in to avg the other 20-24MPG.

[MathiasPW]

Read on Twitter

Apparently, you only get enough Heat getting closer to the Suns. Dragic, Green, DJJ, I feel like they got more players from us recently...

Also, good job beating NTB, Golanator

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

Apparently, you only get enough Heat getting closer to the Suns. Dragic, Green, DJJ, I feel like they got more players from us recently...

Also, good job beating NTB, Golanator

Yeah....Amare played over there too. And Marion and James Jones some years ago too.

[sunsbum]

Saberestar has a great idea here. Napier can do it all, he's like a PG version of Devin Booker. And by that i mean 3pt, passing, mid range and the ability to take it to the cup. The Blazers cannot afford to keep him nor do they have the playing time being that they have CJ and dame. I say we throw a first or two their way and see what he's got for the rest of the season.