2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[KLEON]

Kd has the skillset to win you some games but doesn't have the mindset to win you a championship

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Things we kind of already knew. But what would the true logistics be for this?

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I still say the package would be centered around Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ DET 25' 1st/ MIN 32' 1st. Trevor Lane discusses the above potential possibilities.

I don't want Randle at all. I know he is a good player but he is too selfish and his defense is always meh.

If we decide to trade KD and the Wolves are serious about get him I would ask to get McDaniels for sure. I wouldn't entertain any Wolves offer if he is not on the package. Period.

McDaniels is 24 years old and improving yet and he is under contract until 2029.

Add to McDaniels the 2028 and 2032 unprotected FRPs. And then you can add some swaps and 2nds.

Then we can add Naz Reid and Dillingham to match salaries and have more upside on the roster.

Randles' value to us in this deal would be primarily for his being a $30 million expiring contract to help us get under the 2nd apron or as a significant trade asset to another cash-strapped team. Heck, I've mentioned trading him and another small expiring like Milicics' $8 million (in this premise) to Denver for Michael Porter Jr (to fill in at KD's role).

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I'd again do this to give us a scorer with size in the frontcourt/ on the perimeter that could go for 30 points on any night! And also important is that his contract just happens to expire at the same time as Beals' giving us upwards of $97 million in expiring contracts that'll bee supr valuable trade assets to add more big pieces, picks, or huge cap space if necessary.

Our keeper assets in taking back Randle would be Reid (although BOTH Reid and Randle would have to pick up their player options)/ DEET 25' 1st (19th pick)/ MIN 32' 1st. I didn't mention Dillingham because I would trade him to a team like Brooklyn for their 25th and 37th picks. Giving us the 19th, 25th, 37th, and 54th picks in the draft. Now this will be important for cost-controlled depth/ young, athletic, physical youth infusion!

19- Rasheer Fleming. PF
25- Sergio de Larrea. PG
29- Carter Bryant. SF
37- Jo'an Beringer. C
54- Kobe Brea. SG

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Things we kind of already knew. But what would the true logistics be for this?

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I still say the package would be centered around Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ DET 25' 1st/ MIN 32' 1st. Trevor Lane discusses the above potential possibilities.

Can the Suns still trade Durant like at the time of the draft to get that 2025 Detroit FRP?

Yes! KD is still under contract until next summer.

[bwgood77]

I feel kind of sorry for the Mavs. I hope they do make the playoffs and can get healthy by then because I think with a frontcourt of AD, Lively and Gafford in addition to all the other guys they have, they could be very tough.

I'm rooting for them to fail until the team is sold to another owner.

The fans don't deserve this, the players certainly don't deserve this, the ownership and front office certainly do. It's fine you want to trade Luka, it's the way they handle the whole debacle, how they talk **** to Luka on his way out, the way they treat their fans and not making Luka available to 28 other teams. I can't root for Luka because of that jersey

I doubt there will be a sale any time in the near future.

I can't root for Luka or any Laker either for that matter, but I can root for him to leave them in FA to go to Miami or Brooklyn in the summer of 26. That would be awesome.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Things we kind of already knew. But what would the true logistics be for this?

Watch on YouTube

I still say the package would be centered around Randle/ Reid/ Dillingham/ DET 25' 1st/ MIN 32' 1st. Trevor Lane discusses the above potential possibilities.

I don't want Randle at all. I know he is a good player but he is too selfish and his defense is always meh.

If we decide to trade KD and the Wolves are serious about get him I would ask to get McDaniels for sure. I wouldn't entertain any Wolves offer if he is not on the package. Period.

McDaniels is 24 years old and improving yet and he is under contract until 2029.

Add to McDaniels the 2028 and 2032 unprotected FRPs. And then you can add some swaps and 2nds.

Then we can add Naz Reid and Dillingham to match salaries and have more upside on the roster.

I would take Randle to make the math work as long as McDaniels is part of the "math" - I hear what you are saying but in a Durant deal and probably a Booker deal - there might be a bad contract thrown in there. And looking at the "math" - for Durant, I think it would have to be Randle + McDaniels for Durant. Randle expires next year - so thats tolerable - at least for me if you get the other two draft picks you mention.

You couldn't do Randle and McDaniels as it would be more than KD's contract (by a million) which isn't a lot but, still, both teams are over the 2nd apron. and can't add money and the contracts would have to match "dollar for dollar" or less. It might not be impossible, but it'd be very difficult if possible. Now if Minnesota would buy out Conley and trade DiVencenzo into cap space OR they buy out Conley and NAW then decline Garza and Shannon Jr, then they'd be under the 2nd apron and could do that trade.

Otherwis,e the two options would be KD for Randle/Reid/ Dillingham/ DET 25' 1st/ MIN 32' 1st.
OR
McDaniels/ Reid/ DiVincenzo/Shannon Jr/ Minott/ DET 25' 1st/ MIN 32' 1st.
But I really think Minnesota would prefer to trade Randle and keep McDaniels to flank KD defensively along with Gobert. Then just let KD focus on the offense between McDaniels and Gobert.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I feel kind of sorry for the Mavs. I hope they do make the playoffs and can get healthy by then because I think with a frontcourt of AD, Lively, and Gafford in addition to all the other guys they have, they could be very tough.

I'm rooting for them to fail until the team is sold to another owner.

The fans don't deserve this, the players certainly don't deserve this, the ownership and front office certainly do. It's fine you want to trade Luka, it's the way they handle the whole debacle, how they talk **** to Luka on his way out, the way they treat their fans and not making Luka available to 28 other teams. I can't root for Luka because of that jersey

I doubt there will be a sale any time in the near future.

I can't root for Luka or any Laker either for that matter, but I can root for him to leave them in FA to go to Miami or Brooklyn in the summer of 26. That would be awesome.

At least not until 2027 when the Texas legislature reconvenes over Dumonts' and Adelsons' lobbying for their DFW casino. Typical "Carrot and Stick" approach to the business plan that incentivized the Mavs ownership to broker the Doncic trade to the Flakers using Pelinkas' 19-year connection with Harris and backed by Silver for every obvious reasons.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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If Reid opts out of his contract this summer, it'll drastically affect any potential KD package making a trade to Minnesota much more difficult and unlikely.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Unrestricted free agent for backup point guard this summer? Would he even want to come back?

[Saberestar]

But I really think Minnesota would prefer to trade Randle and keep McDaniels to flank KD defensively along with Gobert. Then just let KD focus on the offense between McDaniels and Gobert.

And then we just say no to that offer. That wouldn't be a good trade.

[BobbieL]

But I really think Minnesota would prefer to trade Randle and keep McDaniels to flank KD defensively along with Gobert. Then just let KD focus on the offense between McDaniels and Gobert.

And then we just say no to that offer. That wouldn't be a good trade.

Not getting just scraps from the TWolves for Durant - has to include McDaniesl

[Slim Charless]

But I really think Minnesota would prefer to trade Randle and keep McDaniels to flank KD defensively along with Gobert. Then just let KD focus on the offense between McDaniels and Gobert.

And then we just say no to that offer. That wouldn't be a good trade.

Not getting just scraps from the TWolves for Durant - has to include McDaniesl

Randle is almost a negative contract at this point. He should be a Beal possibility if anything.

[BobbieL]

And then we just say no to that offer. That wouldn't be a good trade.

Not getting just scraps from the TWolves for Durant - has to include McDaniesl

Randle is almost a negative contract at this point. He should be a Beal possibility if anything.

The difference in Beal and Randle is about $80m. Randle has one year left at like $30m; Beal has two years at $110 or something.
I think the Suns will most likely take back a bad contract in a Durant trade - but at least Randle is expiring in the summer of 2026. As long as you get a McDaniel and two FRPs, maybe a pick swap or a couple seconds - the Suns probably would need to take him. And I would be okay with it if the rest of the deal would suffice.

Be nice if the deal could somehow add Conley for O'Neal

[Ghost of Kleine]

But I really think Minnesota would prefer to trade Randle and keep McDaniels to flank KD defensively along with Gobert. Then just let KD focus on the offense between McDaniels and Gobert.

And then we just say no to that offer. That wouldn't be a good trade.

A matter of perspective on cumulative value. I' love McDaniels, but would also be more than fine with a Randle-based package for the reasons that I've mentioned. I am curious though as to how Naz Reid likely opting out of his players' option would affect a KD trade. Taking Reids' $15 million out of the equation, and not doing a Randle-based package, you'd still need to add another $29-30 million for matching purposes with both teams being over the 2nd apron. And unfortunately, unless Minnesota was willing to buy out Conley or Shannon Jr, we couldn't really couldn't do a Randle/McDaniels deal! (Which I'd do in a heartbeat)! Because we'd be over the matching limit by around 1 million or so dollars.

But If Minnesota would do that package (Randle/ McDaniels/ DET 25' 1st), I'd do that in a heartbeat, and then flip Randle/ Milicic/ CLE 29' 1st to Denver for MPJr.
19- Fleming.
29- Carter Bryant.
54- Kobe Brea.

Booker/ Beal/ McDaniels/ Porter Jr/ Richards.
Maybe trade Allen to Orlando for Bidatze?

Booker/ Beal/ McDaniels/ Porter Jr/ Bidatze.
Jones/ Dunn/ O'neale / Bol / Richards.
FA / Brea/ Bryant/ Fleming/ Ighodaro.

[Qwigglez]

The team lacks leadership, discipline, IQ, and they simply do not care.

On paper, I don't think the Lakers are a better team the Suns. But they got a smart player in Bron, smart coach in Redick.

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This Suns team could never figure this stuff out. Maybe if CP3 was still around.

[sunskerr]

Every trade scenario that seems feasible just seems like we become even more obviously a lotto team. That's probably the best indicator we need to blow it up.

I'm not gonna bother watching Booker, a few role players and a bunch of scrubs if I havent been watching this current team. No way in hell any of these post-KD teams Kleine is proposing are remotely viable in terms of playoffs aspirations.

But you already know that Kleine and of course you know I agree that we gotta start ripping the band-aid off somewhere. Would just prefer we do it quickly and get our picks back and if that means Booker is gone so be it.

[lilfishi22]

I'd agree if Beal's NTC was not here to stay for two more seasons or Booker was about to get traded, but I doubt it. Ishbia will not go into full rebuild and Butler's leadership and better fit, D and off ball movement as someone said, would've been helpful to try making the playoffs as there is no iniative to lose not controlling our picks. I doubt we get a better offer for KD than GSW one in the offseason.

Like I've said before in other post, I see trading for Jimmy as a business as usual move (ie continue to try and compete) as opposed to keeping KD to move him in the summer, which would be a big change in direction. Now we likely still won't do a full rebuild where everyone is available but not bringing Jimmy in will at least save us (and Ishbia) from doubling down further because we would've almost certainly extended him and that's more or less the same as extending KD, which is just delaying in inevitable.

The way I see it, not getting Jimmy sets us on a better path because it will more likely tip us towards a re-org rather than continuing down this path. Now I specifically used the word reorganisation rather than rebuild/tank because like you, I don't believe we'll go down a full rebuild path nor is there value in it, not as long as Booker is here (which I'm all for). But a re-org just means moving things around to clean the books, look at getting under the 2nd apron, maybe bring in some draft capital via moving assets but stay competitive where possible.

Wasn't moving KD for GSW offer exactly this unlike moving Beal for Butler ? If both Beal and Booker remain on the team how do you see the bolded happen ? I guess what we get for KD in the offseason will give a better idea where we are in regards to rebuild/stay competitive, but GSW offer was providing opportunity for both.

I think the key difference is that any deal with Jimmy almost certainly came with the condition that we extended him. That certainly goes against the "cleaning up the books" part of my re-org approach. And yes, you're right the original Beal for Butler deal would've had us throw in multiple FRP which is why I was against it.

When I say move assets to get some draft capital, I was mainly thinking about Royce and Grayson.

[lilfishi22]

Jimmy Butler works in GS because that team defend like crazy even before he joined the team. You give guys around Green who are willing and capable of playing defense the team is going to have a top 10 defense. Their problem hasn't been their defense, it's their offense outside of Curry. So a foul merchant like Butler is going to give them a consistent secondary scoring every night to make them a more balance team. Not sure how much better they could get or if they are legit contender, but there's at least hope now.

GS went all in because they believe in the Green-Curry duo as they should.

Yeah they also have flexibility because they didn't have a 3rd guy making $50m+ that was unmoveable. They could afford to bring in a Jimmy on an extension as the 2nd guy with a $50m+ salary. Right now, they aren't even in the 1st apron. They have room to maneuverer even with Kuminga up for a new deal.

[lilfishi22]

O'Neale is always bricking wide open 3s

Hoist ONeal = Chuck Chowder
1 hot shooting game out of 4

Royce O'Neale is the least of our problems for real. He is playing well on his role.

9.7 points
5.0 rebounds
2.1 assists
1.0 steals

40.3% from three shooting 6 per game.
Solid defender. And only 1.0 TOs per game.

You know what you get with him. You are not getting more but not less neither. Yeah, similar to Crowder and PJ Tucker when they were 31 years old, and that’s a good thing.

Talking about role players I don’t like what I see from Allen at his salary. He is a great 3p shooter but his deficiencies on defense and his limitations on offense just make him overpaid as a 6th man/7th man.

I mentioned last offseason but Grayson is likely the next piece to be moved mainly because he has value to other contenders, he's on a fair contract given his age/skillset and because we have redundancy with Beal/Royce doing similar things. You are right though, I think to us, we're not really getting the most out of him because we're asking too much of him on the defensive end which quite frankly he's just not capable of. If you put him on a good defensive team with a good defensive framework like Orlando that also desperately needs 3PT shooting (they are 30th in 3P%, their best shooter shoots 36%), he'll certainly hold his own but when he's out there battling the opposing team's best or 2nd best wing players every time he's on the court, it's clear he has limitations.

[lilfishi22]

Only 3-4 wins behind 8th spot. Let's stay positive.

I am positive the best thing that can happen is: that the team misses the play-offs, Ishbia blows it up, fires James Jones, he can even fire Budenholzer, thats not my mon ey -- but hire a GM that will trade Booker and Durant and try to move Allen &/or O'Neal. Its time - get young players, get cap picks, get cap flexibility

FWIW James Jones contract is up at the end of the season.....

[lilfishi22]

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Unrestricted free agent for backup point guard this summer? Would he even want to come back?

With what money?