The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

[Puff]

According to Pat Riley Lebron never communicated with him during the entire off season prior to leaving for Cleveland. I am not a Riley fan by any stretch but Lebron was able to win his only two rings as a pro while playing for him. I think at least some communication should have taken place even if he just said told Riley to go fork off.

Lebron did the same thing to Sarver. I would think at Sarver deserved at least a courtesy visit.

It appears that Bledsoe Has frozen out our management team as well, or so it appears.

Both have the same agent.

Is this the new rule for engagement in the NBA?

I guess it is true. It is just about the money.

[lilfishi22]

According to Pat Riley Lebron never communicated with him during the entire off season prior to leaving for Cleveland. I am not a Riley fan by any stretch but Lebron was able to win his only two rings as a pro while playing for him. I think at least some communication should have taken place even if he just said told Riley to go fork off.

Lebron did the same thing to Sarver. I would think at Sarver deserved at least a courtesy visit.

It appears that Bledsoe Has frozen out our management team as well, or so it appears.

Both have the same agent.

Is this the new rule for engagement in the NBA?

I guess it is true. It is just about the money.

Might be one of those, you want to speak to Bledsoe; you speak to me and I'll tell him what you said.

[Zelaznyrules]

Why isn't it? I hear that over and over but to me it's just rhetoric. Do we force teams to play their best players every minute of every game? Who says that competing exists only on the per-game basis?

Why not make teams try to win every possession or every quarter? We don't do this for several reasons but mostly because winning a quarter is irrelevant, winning the game is more important. But how many times do they tell us that winning the game is irrelevant, winning it all is what really matters? If a team feels they need to be really bad in order to become really good, it seems to me that the spirit of competition would force us to support that idea.

That wasn't my point at all. Obviously the NBA doesn't have the power to enforce rules like healthy stars have to play a min of 40mpg. I'm talking about not rewarding that type of anti-competitive behaviour. Why can't the NBA fight tanking by changing up the odds so it's less top heavy?

Actually, I understood your point, it's mine that isn't coming across. My point is it's not written in stone that to be competitive means you win a certain number of games or win by a certain amount. It's just not a black and white issue. We let the team decide whether to compete on a specific possession and we let a team decide whether to compete in a specific quarter, why stop it there? It's only anti-competitive behavior if you ignore the long term goals. If the goal is to win championships then why remove one of the tools available from the teams that choose to use it. Not every team can go that route. Besides being very expensive, there's a huge payoff risk and there is more data to suggest it won't work than it will.

If the NBA really wants to stop tanking it could do it easily. They don't need a complicated system, they have a huge money club and they could just wield it. I don't think they need to but it makes more sense than some of the complicated formulas that have been floated around.

[Just_Win]

Please, some team please, offer Eric a contract. Who cares, make it 4/55 or whatever. Just do something so that we can match and move on from this silly situation.

Nothing against Bledsoe (and I know you can't compare sports) but no way in hell should Bledsoe make more than Patrick Peterson (who is basically the face of the cardinals and a real franchise player).


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Fitz is the face of the franchise.

[Saberestar]

PLENTY OF TIME FOR BLEDSOE TO EARN MAX
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/07/2 ... -earn-max/

[Revived]

I wish there was something else for the Suns to talk about other than Bledsoe.

[King4Day]

I wish there was something else for the Suns to talk about other than Bledsoe.

I'm afraid if there was no Bledsoe talk, there wouldn't be anything significant left to talk about ya know.
It's all that's left. Though I'd be perfectly content getting it done. That way we can start talking about our roster and so forth.

Side note: It's a shame we have too many PF's. We could have had a legit shot at bringing Marion back.

[Frank Lee]

There is no way Marion would return here. He has stated, like so many other vet FAs, he wants to ... wait for it.... 'Go to a contender' .

He'll likely end up in Cleveland if he can pry Ray Allen's lips off James' arse.


This whole Bledsoe fiasco has soured the off season. It could be such a positive ride right now had he just inked up and was in Phnx right now working out with the voluntaries. He's clearly influenced by the attitudes of his handlers.... and yes, James is one of his handlers. You don't think Paul is who swayed him to sign with that agency do you?

Bled has become a prima donna without a resume. Like a f-n Kardashian. It would not surprise me to see him hold out entirely. James will bankroll him on the side. Then he can force a trade, if he can find an interested party.*

If he signs, he does so begrudgingly. It doesn't bode well for the organization to have a player who feels like he has been strong-armed. Even then, the likely result is a trade.

I just don't see Bledsoe in the future of the franchise, and really, don't want to waste the time on trying to get him to mesh with the players we have. He is either all in or all out, and it doesn't seem likely he is all in.



* when it becomes official, as in a statement from Bledsoe saying he will NOT play for the Suns...
ala Joe 'Iwannagohometomomma Johnson... we then will have the task to maximize the return while accommodating the request. I think it is a 60/40 chance we will hear such a declaration before training camp.
50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. Bled for a player and a pick or two will be welcomed in my camp.

[NotTraxxe]

Worst case scenario Bledsoe plays for the QO.

Why won't he do this?

1) Money. (He stands to lose 8 million or so dollars next year)
2) Injury. (He has to play hard because it is a contract year for him)
3) Risk of Regression (team and self). (Loses Money long-term)

This is the deal I would give him (we have thus far refused a 5th year):
5/55 with the last year a team option.

Ultimately outside of spite Bledsoe has to eventually accept this deal. And just keep it known you will match anything a team offers.

So long as his knee holds he has value around the league and can fetch a good haul if he remains unhappy with the Suns.

[asubennett]

Bledsoe is not going anywhere and he hasn't said anything that full of drama. The Suns are using the CBA against Bledsoe and that is great negotiating tactics. Bledsoe's camp is trying to shake the Suns by expressing unhappiness. Unfortunately, Bledsoe has not WON over enough of the fans here or anywhere else to gain a groundswell of support for his cause at the grass roots level that could make the FO do something different purely for PR reasons.

The Suns may go Peterson vs. Sherman style and offer a 4 year 52M contract to one up the 4 year 48M contract that Lowry signed. Bledsoe can feel good about being the highest paid PG in this years FA period and come to play this year. If Bledsoe stays relatively healthy for the next 4 years and plays 18 / 6 / 6 and 2 steal ball with good FG%'s he will have an opportunity to earn $150M over his basketball career total earnings.

[RunDogGun]

The Suns aren't using anything "against" Bledsoe. He is a RFA, there are rules that go with that. He knows this, his agent knows this, and so does everyone else.

We made a fair offer, we expressed our desire for Bledsoe to be here by matching any offer, and any team with a value RFA says the same thing. A team could have tried to call our bluff (if it was one), but no one did.

But we better not go up in price, except for adding bonuses for accomplishments. We have too many contract coming up, which may hinge on what we do now. Fair offer and QO extended, time to choose Bledsoe.

[Sunsdeuce]

Worst case scenario Bledsoe plays for the QO.

Why won't he do this?

1) Money. (He stands to lose 8 million or so dollars next year)
2) Injury. (He has to play hard because it is a contract year for him)
3) Risk of Regression (team and self). (Loses Money long-term)

This is the deal I would give him (we have thus far refused a 5th year):
5/55 with the last year a team option.

Ultimately outside of spite Bledsoe has to eventually accept this deal. And just keep it known you will match anything a team offers.

So long as his knee holds he has value around the league and can fetch a good haul if he remains unhappy with the Suns.

I know that you know someone in the suns organization and all but I think a sign in trade is still possible and probable. Every player is tradable!! And Bledsoe isn't exactly a shining pillar of the phx community, right now. You can never and should never rule anything out as a GM.

On a personal note, I think rich Paul is a (appropriate word for scumbag) and Bledsoe has been sucked into his little word. At this point, I just want these tag team partners gone.


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[SunZel]

Of course Bledsoe is trade able and i want him gone but we are not going to get equal or a better value in a sign and trade. If we sign him and trade him during the season we could get a much better deal. Only problem i think that comes with that is the chemistry.

[Wormwood74]

Worst case scenario Bledsoe plays for the QO.

Why won't he do this?

1) Money. (He stands to lose 8 million or so dollars next year)
2) Injury. (He has to play hard because it is a contract year for him)
3) Risk of Regression (team and self). (Loses Money long-term)

This is the deal I would give him (we have thus far refused a 5th year):
5/55 with the last year a team option.

Ultimately outside of spite Bledsoe has to eventually accept this deal. And just keep it known you will match anything a team offers.

So long as his knee holds he has value around the league and can fetch a good haul if he remains unhappy with the Suns.

Solid analysis (cz, you know, insider). I would throw out there that I don't know why he'd take 5/55 on a team option... that's actually worse than 4/48 guaranteed. Now, 5/55 with 5th year player option, that makes sense. More guaranteed money for Bledsoe, and we get a smaller salary cap hit each of the first four years.

If he takes the QO, that's a LOT of risk. Too much for most agents. I don't know where this will go, but either a S&T will be forced, or a bump up of the 4/48 will happen. Those really seem to be the only two options right now, with the latter seemingly more likely, at least until Bledsoe demands a S&T.

However, Bledsoe and his agent acting butthurt over the Suns using CBA rules to their advantage... just cut it out. That's your job as an agent to know how these things work, and to anticipate how teams will position themselves. Either you're whining about something you knew was a possibility, or you failed as an agent because you didn't anticipate them.

[Sunsdeuce]

Of course Bledsoe is trade able and i want him gone but we are not going to get equal or a better value in a sign and trade. If we sign him and trade him during the season we could get a much better deal. Only problem i think that comes with that is the chemistry.

Good call. It's frustrating seeing someone demand something they haven't earned.

I still say he didn't get offers from other teams mainly because of bledsoe and his agent (declaring Bledsoe wanted a max contract). The majority of the blame on why Bledsoe didn't get other offers falls on Bledsoe and Paul. The suns played a minor role in that. I don't think other teams saw him as a franchise player, let alone a max player. The way I see it other teams didn't want to pay him more than he is worth. The CBA played a part in that. It's not "just" the suns using it "against" Bledsoe, All the teams have the same mindframe.

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[Sunsdeuce]

Worst case scenario Bledsoe plays for the QO.

Why won't he do this?

1) Money. (He stands to lose 8 million or so dollars next year)
2) Injury. (He has to play hard because it is a contract year for him)
3) Risk of Regression (team and self). (Loses Money long-term)

This is the deal I would give him (we have thus far refused a 5th year):
5/55 with the last year a team option.

Ultimately outside of spite Bledsoe has to eventually accept this deal. And just keep it known you will match anything a team offers.

So long as his knee holds he has value around the league and can fetch a good haul if he remains unhappy with the Suns.

Solid analysis (cz, you know, insider). I would throw out there that I don't know why he'd take 5/55 on a team option... that's actually worse than 4/48 guaranteed. Now, 5/55 with 5th year player option, that makes sense. More guaranteed money for Bledsoe, and we get a smaller salary cap hit each of the first four years.

If he takes the QO, that's a LOT of risk. Too much for most agents. I don't know where this will go, but either a S&T will be forced, or a bump up of the 4/48 will happen. Those really seem to be the only two options right now, with the latter seemingly more likely, at least until Bledsoe demands a S&T.

However, Bledsoe and his agent acting butthurt over the Suns using CBA rules to their advantage... just cut it out. That's your job as an agent to know how these things work, and to anticipate how teams will position themselves. Either you're whining about something you knew was a possibility, or you failed as an agent because you didn't anticipate them.

That's the problem. Rich Paul doesn't have the training, education, or experience to be an effective agent. Everyone knows who drew rosenhaus is because he knows how to be an agent (has the education and experience) and teams don't like dealing with him because he knows the free agent game as well as anyone. I never understand these players signing friends or people they know to be agents who are unqualified is mind boggling to me.

If I'm a player, I want the most qualified/respected agent representing me. Rich Paul just isn't a good agent, period.

[AtheJ415]

Rich Paul is Lebron's agent because once upon a time he sold him a throwback jersey from his trunk. No joke. And because he is Lebron's agent, he has been able to add other players. He's awful. He thought the decision would be a PR boost if he gave most of the money to charity. Dude is awful at his job.

Worst case scenario Bledsoe plays for the QO.

Why won't he do this?

1) Money. (He stands to lose 8 million or so dollars next year)
2) Injury. (He has to play hard because it is a contract year for him)
3) Risk of Regression (team and self). (Loses Money long-term)

This is the deal I would give him (we have thus far refused a 5th year):
5/55 with the last year a team option.

Ultimately outside of spite Bledsoe has to eventually accept this deal. And just keep it known you will match anything a team offers.

So long as his knee holds he has value around the league and can fetch a good haul if he remains unhappy with the Suns.

Solid analysis (cz, you know, insider). I would throw out there that I don't know why he'd take 5/55 on a team option... that's actually worse than 4/48 guaranteed. Now, 5/55 with 5th year player option, that makes sense. More guaranteed money for Bledsoe, and we get a smaller salary cap hit each of the first four years.

If he takes the QO, that's a LOT of risk. Too much for most agents. I don't know where this will go, but either a S&T will be forced, or a bump up of the 4/48 will happen. Those really seem to be the only two options right now, with the latter seemingly more likely, at least until Bledsoe demands a S&T.

However, Bledsoe and his agent acting butthurt over the Suns using CBA rules to their advantage... just cut it out. That's your job as an agent to know how these things work, and to anticipate how teams will position themselves. Either you're whining about something you knew was a possibility, or you failed as an agent because you didn't anticipate them.

That's the problem. Rich Paul doesn't have the training, education, or experience to be an effective agent. Everyone knows who drew rosenhaus is because he knows how to be an agent (has the education and experience) and teams don't like dealing with him because he knows the free agent game as well as anyone. I never understand these players signing friends or people they know to be agents who are unqualified is mind boggling to me.

If I'm a player, I want the most qualified/respected agent representing me. Rich Paul just isn't a good agent, period.

[NaturalBuns]

I hope PHX gives Marion a look.
When the Suns go small I prefer Marion at the 4 over Marcus.
for rebounding and defense.

Also with the medical staff for his interest it should be maybe they can prolong his career by a year or two.

[Sun Scorched]

Well, I'm not sure enough has been mentioned about this, but one thing I'm positive about is that we've handled this professionally. 100% of my job is negotiation and it can, and often does, get emotional. But cooler heads prevail.

We have an ace up the sleeve - Lon Babby. The guy was an accomplished player agent before joining our front office - he repped Tim Duncan, Ray Allen and Grant Hill. That's an impressive resume. He's been on the other side of the fence and, as a result, is custom built to managing this situation and expectations.

Plus, right now, he's schooling **** Rich Paul which makes me very happy. But when Bledsoe signs, because he will sign, the Suns are in a position to act professionally about the situation. They haven't thrown mud. They've offered a fair contract, one that's still on the table.

When offered a 4/$48 contract, the incorrect counter offer is 5/$80 - that's just stupid and reeks of unprofessionalism. Clearly, the Suns aren't low-balling you by $32m, ffs.

I'd keep 4/$48 on the table and, at the appropriate time (and you only do this once and for a limited amount of time) you offer something like a $1m bonus per year, to be earned if Bledsoe makes the All-Star game. Dragic had the same clause, and Dragic is a better player making less. I'd say offer an incentive if Bledsoe could play 70+ games, but I believe that runs counter to responsible health and could create more issues than it would solve.

TL:DR - keep up the good work McD, Babby - thrilled you are at the helm.

[Frank Lee]

I contend Bledsoe will hold out for a trade rather than play one minute as a sun. He does not have to sign anything. He does not have to play. It's too risky. Especially if he wants out of Phoenix.