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The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime!

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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1281 » by JTrain » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:42 am

SunsFanSSOL wrote:Who would you guys rather get from Houston for Bledsoe, Motiejunas or Jones? At first I thought I'd rather have Jones, but I feel like his ceiling is much lower in comparison to Motiejunas. Another thing against Jones would be that he is a tweener, whereas Motiejunas has amazing size for his position. Imagine if we got Motiejunas and Alex Len pans out, our front court would be a monster to go up against. DMo also has the potential to be a stretch 4 which everyone seems to love. I'd keep an eye out for him during the world cup.


Jones. He is already at a high level and Motiejunas declined in several areas last year. Jones blew him away in WS/48 and PER.

But I don't think they will offer either. A team would have to be really desperate to win this season to offer us much for a S&T.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1282 » by kingstyyyle » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:46 am

NoKneeBledsoe wrote:Whoever is talking about Frye being a big loss is an idiot

Frye is not a good basketball player and only had a good season when amare drew double teams

Frye cannot be a leader or lead a team !

Dragic will be fine.

Markieff Morris is a better player than true and I am not a Mprris fan

LOL :roll:
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1283 » by SSOL » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:47 am

NoKneeBledsoe wrote:Whoever is talking about Frye being a big loss is an idiot

Frye is not a good basketball player and only had a good season when amare drew double teams

Frye cannot be a leader or lead a team !

Dragic will be fine.

Markieff Morris is a better player than true and I am not a Mprris fan


Yeah...you're just an idiot and I will leave it at that.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1284 » by bwgood77 » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:02 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:I'm not sure why everyone is so down on this offseason. Yes, it sucks not to get a max guy, but we lost only Channing Frye and gained Isaiah Thomas and 2 firsts who at worst will give us better depth than last year (Ennis>>Ish, Warren>>whoever you would call our 3rd string SF). We're a better team than we were last year. Thomas is on a different planet than Frye, and I believe Markieff will be able to provide some improved shooting to help make up for that loss. Either way, can anyone honestly claim that if we could trade Frye for Thomas at $6 mill a year they would've rejected that deal? Really?


I think the problem remains to be Bledsoe. If we sign him to a long term deal, then most people, myself included, will find this offseason was a relative success.
But if he takes the QO, we've ultimately taken a step back.



Fair enough, but does anyone honestly think he'll take the QO? It's not like other players such as Monroe taking the QO. Monroe's QO is about 8-9 mil I believe. Bledsoe's is 3. To take the 3 mil with a 12 mil offer sitting there is to sacrifice 9 mil this year. To get a max, which is just about 3-4 more per season, it would take him 3 years to make up that difference, and by putting off his new deal for a year he loses out on being a FA again even sooner. It's essentially gambling $48 mil to win $6 mil, and that's only if he's able to get a max next year which likely won't happen.

I think Paul is awful at his job, and while I don't think he's the smartest person in the world, I'd be shocked if he was stupid enough to gamble $48 mil to win $6. That's what this comes down to.

In my opinion, short of Bledsoe happily accepting our $12 mil offer at the outset, this has gone as well as possible for Phoenix. Bledsoe hasn't received an offer better than ours that he's actually accepted. He misplayed his hand and has backed himself into a corner. The only way we don't end up with Bledsoe at a cheap deal relative to what was projected prior to FA is if his agent compounds that mistake by actually letting him sign the QO.


Yeah, not sure why more people don't see the situation like you've described it. I've mentioned the same thing more than a few times, but it doesn't seem to resonate with too many people for whatever reason. I won't go quite as far as saying it's gone as well as it could, because him accepting the offer would have been better but if he takes the QO I will be somewhat shocked and his camp would be more than idiotic. He needs a max contract next summer to make up the difference and few teams need point guards and the kind of cap space he would need (Milwaukee and Sacramento). But with the risk of injury, you can't do it. Even if he faked an injury to avoid injury this season, then there is ZERO chance he gets much of a deal at all next summer (I know that is a ridiculous thought, but Paul seems pretty ridiculous). It's almost inconceivable to imagine he will take the QO and risk for that POSSIBLE chance (but improbable) he gets a few extra few dollars over the next four years.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1285 » by Kerrsed » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:09 am

As i posted in a SAC/PHX thread on the trade board:

What i believe will happen is that Bledsoe will end up signing a new deal with the Suns. Im guessing it will be somewhere around 4/$56M with maybe the last 2 years as player options (so if Bledsoe doesnt have another injury and continues to show the talents that he did this past year he can seek a bigger deal). If he or the Suns believe that the relationship is now toxic, they all might decide that it is best to trade him asap, but i think he will play at least 1 more season with the Suns before he is moved.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1286 » by DRK » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:37 am

Kerrsed wrote:As i posted in a SAC/PHX thread on the trade board:

What i believe will happen is that Bledsoe will end up signing a new deal with the Suns. Im guessing it will be somewhere around 4/$56M with maybe the last 2 years as player options (so if Bledsoe doesnt have another injury and continues to show the talents that he did this past year he can seek a bigger deal). If he or the Suns believe that the relationship is now toxic, they all might decide that it is best to trade him asap, but i think he will play at least 1 more season with the Suns before he is moved.


4/56 is roughly 14mil a year, with two player options? What if Bled blows out his knee in the middle of year 1 or 2, and he never returns to form? He can easily accept the PO and ride the bench as a shell of himself, while we pay him 40mil over the 2-3 years left in the contract

I still think signing him at a base of 12-13 mill a year, and adding incentives i.e Allstar/ 70+games played/All-NBA is the best option. Make him earn his cash
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1287 » by DRK » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:44 am

SSOL wrote:
NoKneeBledsoe wrote:Whoever is talking about Frye being a big loss is an idiot

Frye is not a good basketball player and only had a good season when amare drew double teams

Frye cannot be a leader or lead a team !

Dragic will be fine.

Markieff Morris is a better player than true and I am not a Mprris fan


Yeah...you're just an idiot and I will leave it at that.


Frye had one job, camp outside and space the floor. I dont see why Tolliver cant replicate that role easily too

Just because Tolliver was signed to a cheap contract, doesnt mean he cant play a good role. Remember Frye was only given the Bi-Annual Exception when he signed here first.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1288 » by kingstyyyle » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:04 am

Kerrsed wrote:As i posted in a SAC/PHX thread on the trade board:

What i believe will happen is that Bledsoe will end up signing a new deal with the Suns. Im guessing it will be somewhere around 4/$56M with maybe the last 2 years as player options (so if Bledsoe doesnt have another injury and continues to show the talents that he did this past year he can seek a bigger deal). If he or the Suns believe that the relationship is now toxic, they all might decide that it is best to trade him asap, but i think he will play at least 1 more season with the Suns before he is moved.

No way would I go from 12 mil to 14. 14 is almost the max!
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1289 » by nevetsov » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:05 am

I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of advanced stats for Tolliver last season, vs Frye in the season immediately before he joined Phoenix. As I recall, Frye was a marginal player prior, and was made into a stretch big upon arrival. Be good to see how much Frye improved based on situation and work out what kind of effect we could expect from Tolliver/ even Marcus Morris in that role.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1290 » by letsgosuns » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:14 am

I really laugh when I see people say Frye is a huge loss. I cannot stand him even one bit. His ability to space the floor is the only thing that he offers, nothing else. Him a leader? Okay whatever. You know when the Suns started sucking and missing the playoffs? When Frye became a starter. That is right. When Amare left, they expected Robin Lopez and Frye to step up and the addition of Hakim Warrick to help man the middle. What a joke. Lopez was horrible, Frye cannot play inside even in his dreams, and Warrick was just awful.

When the Suns traded Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, and Earl Clark in the 2010-2011 season, they were under .500. They were basically the exact same team that year as the year prior that went to the WCF minus Amare and Barbosa, yet they were terrible. So like I said, once Frye became the starter after Amare left, the Suns missed the playoffs EVERY YEAR Frye was on the team. The only year they were good with Frye was when he was a bench player in the 2009- 2010 season.

I really like Frye as a person and his attitude and was very happy for him when returned from his year off, but I think he is a bad basketball player. Once the Suns let him go, I felt it was a successful offseason. That is how much I dislike his game. A 6'11" power forward that does nothing but chuck threes all game long? No thanks. Think about it, Frye's contract is barely more than what the Suns gave Isaiah Thomas. Ryan McDonough knew they would never do anything with Frye on the team. That is why the Suns let him go. Frye is not a championship caliber player. At least I do not think so. I am so happy I never have watch another one of his patented 0-7 or 1-8 three pointer games for the Suns again. McD knows what it takes to win the title from his time with the Celtics. It takes big guys that can play inside. Frye does not fit that mold.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1291 » by kingstyyyle » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:19 am

letsgosuns wrote:I really laugh when I see people say Frye is a huge loss. I cannot stand him even one bit. His ability to space the floor is the only thing that he offers, nothing else. Him a leader? Okay whatever. You know when the Suns started sucking and missing the playoffs? When Frye became a starter. That is right. When Amare left, they expected Robin Lopez and Frye to step up and the addition of Hakim Warrick to help man the middle. What a joke. Lopez was horrible, Frye cannot play inside even in his dreams, and Warrick was just awful.

When the Suns traded Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, and Earl Clark in the 2010-2011 season, they were under .500. They were basically the exact same team that year as the year prior that went to the WCF minus Amare and Barbosa, yet they were terrible. So like I said, once Frye became the starter after Amare left, the Suns missed the playoffs EVERY YEAR Frye was on the team. The only year they were good with Frye was when he was a bench player in the 2009- 2010 season.

I really like Frye as a person and his attitude and was very happy for him when returned from his year off, but I think he is very bad basketball player. Once the Suns let him go, I felt it was a successful offseason. That is how much I dislike his game. A 6'11" power forward that does nothing but chuck threes all game long? No thanks. Think about it, Frye's contract is barely more than what the Suns gave Isaiah Thomas. Ryan McDonough knew they would never do anything with Frye on the team. That is why the Suns let him go. Frye is not a championship caliber player. At least I do not think so. I am so happy I never have watch another one of his patented 0-7 or 1-8 three pointer games for the Suns again. McD knows what it takes to win the title from his time with the Celtics. It takes big guys that can play inside. Frye does not fit that mold.

Dude how many teams wouldn't regress replacing Amare with Frye? PHX Suns Amare that is. We would've loved to keep Frye but he got offered too much money
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1292 » by letsgosuns » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:21 am

kingstyyyle wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:I really laugh when I see people say Frye is a huge loss. I cannot stand him even one bit. His ability to space the floor is the only thing that he offers, nothing else. Him a leader? Okay whatever. You know when the Suns started sucking and missing the playoffs? When Frye became a starter. That is right. When Amare left, they expected Robin Lopez and Frye to step up and the addition of Hakim Warrick to help man the middle. What a joke. Lopez was horrible, Frye cannot play inside even in his dreams, and Warrick was just awful.

When the Suns traded Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, and Earl Clark in the 2010-2011 season, they were under .500. They were basically the exact same team that year as the year prior that went to the WCF minus Amare and Barbosa, yet they were terrible. So like I said, once Frye became the starter after Amare left, the Suns missed the playoffs EVERY YEAR Frye was on the team. The only year they were good with Frye was when he was a bench player in the 2009- 2010 season.

I really like Frye as a person and his attitude and was very happy for him when returned from his year off, but I think he is very bad basketball player. Once the Suns let him go, I felt it was a successful offseason. That is how much I dislike his game. A 6'11" power forward that does nothing but chuck threes all game long? No thanks. Think about it, Frye's contract is barely more than what the Suns gave Isaiah Thomas. Ryan McDonough knew they would never do anything with Frye on the team. That is why the Suns let him go. Frye is not a championship caliber player. At least I do not think so. I am so happy I never have watch another one of his patented 0-7 or 1-8 three pointer games for the Suns again. McD knows what it takes to win the title from his time with the Celtics. It takes big guys that can play inside. Frye does not fit that mold.

Dude how many teams wouldn't regress replacing Amare with Frye? PHX Suns Amare that is


Totally agree. That is my point. Amare was a major loss. Channing Frye a huge loss? No way.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1293 » by kingstyyyle » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:25 am

letsgosuns wrote:
kingstyyyle wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:I really laugh when I see people say Frye is a huge loss. I cannot stand him even one bit. His ability to space the floor is the only thing that he offers, nothing else. Him a leader? Okay whatever. You know when the Suns started sucking and missing the playoffs? When Frye became a starter. That is right. When Amare left, they expected Robin Lopez and Frye to step up and the addition of Hakim Warrick to help man the middle. What a joke. Lopez was horrible, Frye cannot play inside even in his dreams, and Warrick was just awful.

When the Suns traded Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, and Earl Clark in the 2010-2011 season, they were under .500. They were basically the exact same team that year as the year prior that went to the WCF minus Amare and Barbosa, yet they were terrible. So like I said, once Frye became the starter after Amare left, the Suns missed the playoffs EVERY YEAR Frye was on the team. The only year they were good with Frye was when he was a bench player in the 2009- 2010 season.

I really like Frye as a person and his attitude and was very happy for him when returned from his year off, but I think he is very bad basketball player. Once the Suns let him go, I felt it was a successful offseason. That is how much I dislike his game. A 6'11" power forward that does nothing but chuck threes all game long? No thanks. Think about it, Frye's contract is barely more than what the Suns gave Isaiah Thomas. Ryan McDonough knew they would never do anything with Frye on the team. That is why the Suns let him go. Frye is not a championship caliber player. At least I do not think so. I am so happy I never have watch another one of his patented 0-7 or 1-8 three pointer games for the Suns again. McD knows what it takes to win the title from his time with the Celtics. It takes big guys that can play inside. Frye does not fit that mold.

Dude how many teams wouldn't regress replacing Amare with Frye? PHX Suns Amare that is


Totally agree. That is my point. Amare was a major loss. Channing Frye a huge loss? No way.

Well you said we went to the WCF then were terrible and blamed Frye for it. We won 14 less games which seems about right sense we lost arguably our best player.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1294 » by letsgosuns » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:30 am

kingstyyyle wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:
kingstyyyle wrote:Dude how many teams wouldn't regress replacing Amare with Frye? PHX Suns Amare that is


Totally agree. That is my point. Amare was a major loss. Channing Frye a huge loss? No way.

Well you said we went to the WCF then were terrible and blamed Frye for it. We won 14 less games which seems about right sense we lost arguably our best player.


I was not blaming only Frye. I blamed Robin Lopez and Hakim Warrick as well. But my point is how is Frye such a huge loss like some fans are saying. He is not a star player. He is a role/bench player that can be replaced. Some people are acting like Frye was so important to the team. How? The Suns have missed the playoff for four straight years. What the hell are they going to miss from Frye?
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1295 » by AtheJ415 » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:37 am

DRK wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:As i posted in a SAC/PHX thread on the trade board:

What i believe will happen is that Bledsoe will end up signing a new deal with the Suns. Im guessing it will be somewhere around 4/$56M with maybe the last 2 years as player options (so if Bledsoe doesnt have another injury and continues to show the talents that he did this past year he can seek a bigger deal). If he or the Suns believe that the relationship is now toxic, they all might decide that it is best to trade him asap, but i think he will play at least 1 more season with the Suns before he is moved.


4/56 is roughly 14mil a year, with two player options? What if Bled blows out his knee in the middle of year 1 or 2, and he never returns to form? He can easily accept the PO and ride the bench as a shell of himself, while we pay him 40mil over the 2-3 years left in the contract

I still think signing him at a base of 12-13 mill a year, and adding incentives i.e Allstar/ 70+games played/All-NBA is the best option. Make him earn his cash


This. Besides, why pay him that much when no other team can offer him that? If we were going to allow him to save face then so be it, but not at $2 mill a year more. I don't like or agree with the precedent of paying a guy more when we're already the top offer out there just because he would like to make more. Every player would like to make more. That's your market value. If he wanted 14 a year he should've taken 14 a year when it was offered. He passed and this is what he's left with.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1296 » by Revived » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:39 am

DRK wrote:
SSOL wrote:
NoKneeBledsoe wrote:Whoever is talking about Frye being a big loss is an idiot

Frye is not a good basketball player and only had a good season when amare drew double teams

Frye cannot be a leader or lead a team !

Dragic will be fine.

Markieff Morris is a better player than true and I am not a Mprris fan


Yeah...you're just an idiot and I will leave it at that.


Frye had one job, camp outside and space the floor. I dont see why Tolliver cant replicate that role easily too

Just because Tolliver was signed to a cheap contract, doesnt mean he cant play a good role. Remember Frye was only given the Bi-Annual Exception when he signed here first.

Exactly. Tolliver is a better play now than Frye back in 2009 when we signed him.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1297 » by kingstyyyle » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:45 am

letsgosuns wrote:
kingstyyyle wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:
Totally agree. That is my point. Amare was a major loss. Channing Frye a huge loss? No way.

Well you said we went to the WCF then were terrible and blamed Frye for it. We won 14 less games which seems about right sense we lost arguably our best player.


I was not blaming only Frye. I blamed Robin Lopez and Hakim Warrick as well. But my point is how is Frye such a huge loss like some fans are saying. He is not a star player. He is a role/bench player that can be replaced. Some people are acting like Frye was so important to the team. How? The Suns have missed the playoff for four straight years. What the hell are they going to miss from Frye?

Spacing
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1298 » by gaspar » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:45 am

ChrisInAZ wrote:
gaspar wrote:
ChrisInAZ wrote:
Maybe I read it wrong but I took- "My source with the "Mothership" advised we made an offer for Love." meant we tried to make a deal with MInnesota for Love, which would mean trying to steal LOve away from Lebron, and that could never happen given the agent/friendships involved. Again, maybe I'm reading this post incorrectly.

Wat?


Paul is friend and agent of Lebron. Lebron is close friends with Bledsoe. Bledsoe's agent is Paul. The Love deal to the Cavs and Lebron was in place. For the Suns to acquire Love using a Bledsoe SnT, it would require Bledsoe and Paul to agree to the sign and trade. No Love for Lebron (pun semi-intended).

(ring...ring)

James- "hey...it's Lebron"

Paul- "Dude, I got Eric a deal ...a max sign and trade!"

James- "Cool! Where?"

Paul- "T-Wolves"

James- "What did they send the Suns?"

Paul- "KLove"

James- "You stupid mother f*****! You screwed up the plan...you're fired! And tell Eric I'm beyond pissed...and to enjoy January in Minnesota"

Bledsoe: "Yo, wassup?"

Paul: "There's a team willing to give you a max contract - Minnesota in a sign and trade for Love".

Bledsoe: "Oh, that's great, where do I sign?"

Paul: "Well... Eric, there's a problem, you can't take this deal. Instead you will take the QO from the Suns. It's only a $60M pay cut... but we can still be buddies with LeBron!!!"

Bledsoe: "??? You are fired you dumb ****!"


If Flip liked Bledsoe on a max deal more than Wiggins, there would be nothing Rich Paul could do stop this deal from happening.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1299 » by SSOL » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:51 am

letsgosuns wrote:I really laugh when I see people say Frye is a huge loss. I cannot stand him even one bit. His ability to space the floor is the only thing that he offers, nothing else. Him a leader? Okay whatever. You know when the Suns started sucking and missing the playoffs? When Frye became a starter. That is right. When Amare left, they expected Robin Lopez and Frye to step up and the addition of Hakim Warrick to help man the middle. What a joke. Lopez was horrible, Frye cannot play inside even in his dreams, and Warrick was just awful.

When the Suns traded Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, and Earl Clark in the 2010-2011 season, they were under .500. They were basically the exact same team that year as the year prior that went to the WCF minus Amare and Barbosa, yet they were terrible. So like I said, once Frye became the starter after Amare left, the Suns missed the playoffs EVERY YEAR Frye was on the team. The only year they were good with Frye was when he was a bench player in the 2009- 2010 season.

I really like Frye as a person and his attitude and was very happy for him when returned from his year off, but I think he is a bad basketball player. Once the Suns let him go, I felt it was a successful offseason. That is how much I dislike his game. A 6'11" power forward that does nothing but chuck threes all game long? No thanks. Think about it, Frye's contract is barely more than what the Suns gave Isaiah Thomas. Ryan McDonough knew they would never do anything with Frye on the team. That is why the Suns let him go. Frye is not a championship caliber player. At least I do not think so. I am so happy I never have watch another one of his patented 0-7 or 1-8 three pointer games for the Suns again. McD knows what it takes to win the title from his time with the Celtics. It takes big guys that can play inside. Frye does not fit that mold.


People that say frye isn't a big loss have no concept of advanced analytics or the ability of a stretch big's impact on the true shooting percentages of his teammates.

I never once stated that frye was a leader. What I will state, and the numbers PROVE this, is that Frye made the offense more efficient and prolific. This isn't a debate, it is a fact.

Teams could not ice the pick and roll (for those of you who know what that is) because The mere threat that Frye presented when he was on the floor, made that option non existant for opposing defenses.

Frye's presence opened the lanes for our slashers in ways that allowed them to get to the rim, and free throw line, that was not seen in the year he was gone.

There is a reason Frye started right off the bat for this team.

Having said all that, I would not have signed him for the money Orlando gave him. But that does not change the fact that the loss of his gravity will hurt this offense in a major way.

I love Markieff but I love the Markieff that stopped jacking threes and decided to develop a mean mid range game. Having him chuck from distance is not the answer.

To the haters who think I am an "idiot" for thinking Frye is a loss; learn the game, learn the numbers, learn the system.

I was looking up numbers to post here but then I found this article. It says it as well as I could have put it.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2014/ ... -will-miss
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime! 

Post#1300 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:56 am

Sunsss wrote:
RandomVillain wrote:So, if Bledsoe takes the QO and stays, or just actually stays. Do you expect Boo's from the crowd at the home opener? I know I won't feel like cheering in any way..... unless you know he hits a game winner then cool. Other than that. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :evil:

I hope not.


Just silence would be poetic. "Starting at guard. Eeeeeeric Bleeeeeeedsoooooooe! " Crickets chirping.

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