2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

[lilfishi22]

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[NaturalBuns]

All I got to say it's good to see suns having a good off season. What a time

[lilfishi22]

At this point, I think everyone had watched at least one highlight clip and are at least aware of the box scores. Just to balance things out, this is also why he was waived

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[bwgood77]

The credit CP gets for taking a team that was already making a strong turn upwards is shading Book, Bridges, CamJo and Ayton’s collective progression. Chuck Chowder is overlooked here too.

I know I know … nba finals, our best record…blah blah. Both with reasonable taints. CP was an important piece, but that squad had enough talent to make the playoffs, and who knows, given the injury voodoo curse we had on our side????

CP grabbed onto coat tails as much as the reigns.
Thats why he came here

His time here will forever be tainted by the slaughters and back door sweep where he was ineffective. NBA history is written with the playoff pen.

CP is our own General Custer, with two little big horns under his belt

PS… come on Weak… do you forget the demon KJ was ??? We got his best yrs here, where as CP gave us his final ones

Yeah, KJ gets traded here during a 28 win season as a rookie and leads the team to the WCF the next 2 years. Being beaten badly by the Showtime Lakers the first time (but KJ is in his 2nd year averaging 20 and 12 with 1.7 spg on over 50% shooting). The Lakers win it all that year and the following year Magic wins MVP and we take out the defending champion Lakers in 5 in the 2nd round, and lose to Portland in the WCF, but were banged up.

Talking about what they did for the franchise and where we had been, these were not long after the taint of the Cocaine scandal and all that.

There was Suns fever, BABY!

"If fans had a fever, the only prescription is more Suns ball!"

WG may have not been a Suns fan at that time, or maybe before his time following the NBA much at all. I was just really starting to follow it around that time.

I'm old enough to remember KJ but at that point I was a Bucks fan only. I was a big Barkley fan as a kid so I did root for the suns after that trade. The finals loss really sucked because I was also a Jordan hater. But I really didn't become a full on suns fan until I moved to AZ after college in 2002 and then the Nash era happened.

I'm probably a little biased against KJ because he's had a couple sketchy post playing career creep incidents.

I totally get how some people dislike Chris Paul. I always liked him (partly because I wanted the Bucks to take him over Bogut and was right) but even I roll my eyes at some of his foul bating antics. Pretty dislikable player so I get it.

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I like Paul a lot. He was my 2nd favorite player his first year here. I thought he made a huge difference. What he helped the team do was pretty remarkable.

But watching KJ play was dynamite, and on top of that, the fact he turned a team around like that in his 2nd year is crazy. How many draftees take a 28 win team to 55 wins. We did add Chambers too but we also lost all star Larry Nance in that trade.

And of course when I judge KJ's play as a Sun and what he did for the franchise I am not letting off the court stuff impact my opinion of what he did as a player...I'm judging that on it's own merits. It's just too bad injuries set in around the Barkley trade season. He was still really good for a few years after that, but it wasn't the same.

Paul's career has probably been twice as long. I also find it pretty remarkable how Paul is able to make such an immediate impact with any team. And everyone always talked about "Nash can mentor this guy" time and time again...but Nash wasn't that mentor type. CP3 is that type. He mentors everyone. Of course I know his perfectionist nature eventually rubs a lot of players, particularly vets, the wrong way.

[bwgood77]

Seems like a lot of guys here have a skewed uninformed opinion of BolBol

Suns need a big the most and they should be all over getting Bol Bol 7'2" . Bol Bol started 32 games straight for Orlando when Carter was hurt and played
Avged 27 mpg ,shooting 58 percent (162/278) FG and 39 percent (24/62) 3P and 74 percent (46/62) FT
Avged 12.4 ppg/7.1 rpg with 45 blocks in 32 starts

For any other 23 yr old other than Bol Bol Suns fans would be all over getting him if they could .
If you thought his play caused him to lose his starting position ,it wasnt. Magic are locked into Carter ,Banchero,Wagner frontline.

Its amazing how the uninformed fans write this good play as if it never happened but it's black and white and happened and this was in a offense that finished in the bottom 3 in assists where Banchero and Wagner played a my turn your turn offense.
Bol will play with superstars who move and pass the ball trying to win a championship instead of playing with two players more interested in making a name for themselves 1st.

I haven't commented on Bol Bol, simply because I don't really care, but I like taking swings on low risk, potentially high upside guys. Though it seems a few teams already have. Did he clear waivers? Anyway, we had luck with Payne when other teams passed on him.

I am an uninformed Bol Bol guy, simply because why would I have followed him or the Magic's reserves when they start?

Is that 58% from 2? Or 58% overall, so it includes those 62 3PA at 39%? If it's the latter, that is pretty impressive. Doesn't appear he is a very good rebounder though which wouldn't go well around here.

You really seem to like Bol Bol.

[grumpysaddle]

Literally zero reason to get into a hissyfit about Bol Bol being the 15th guy on the team.

I'd rather just bring back Frank the Tank on a minimum, IMO though.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Maybe help side defender at PF in case we're undersized with Eubanks/Metu playing against Jokic or Valanciunas.

That's about it.

[Bogyo]

We will be over 15 again. Personally I don't really care if we keep Ish or Bol. They are kinda the same tier, although Bol has more upside while Ish seems to stay in his lane and acts like a pro about it (I mean that Bol lowlight video was downright-godawful-whatwereyouthinking in a lot of places). Let the coaches decide who is better for this team.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Tournament pool against Memphis, Lakers, Utah, Portland

I like the format and be good to get some knock out game experience.

Wonder if Beal, Booker, Durant (and even Ayton if he qualifies?) will play Olympics after the season.

[enigmatics]

At this point, I think everyone had watched at least one highlight clip and are at least aware of the box scores. Just to balance things out, this is also why he was waived

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People can continue to be lazy all they want - but it stands to mention the full replays of the 16 games he played in are readily available.

Once again we are talking about the last spot on the roster. Pretty much every dude the Suns signed on those vet min deals has their own warts too.

[sunsbg]

2027 Suns Spurs finals duel featuring...

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[lilfishi22]

At this point, I think everyone had watched at least one highlight clip and are at least aware of the box scores. Just to balance things out, this is also why he was waived

Read on Twitter

People can continue to be lazy all they want - but it stands to mention the full replays of the 16 games he played in are readily available.

Once again we are talking about the last spot on the roster. Pretty much every dude the Suns signed on those vet min deals has their own warts too.

Ask Orlando fans what they thought of him and the consensus is that his highlights were fun, but an atrocious liability on defense and offensively can't play in the half court. The guy doesn't pass, is turnover prone and he's got a bad attitude.

I was also part of the contingent who only watched highlights, a few games and thought why the hell not but over the past few days, I have done more research and watched more games and come to the conclusion his attitude might be the biggest red flag. The attitude is just not what you want to deal with especially when he's not going to get the kind of playing time he thinks he deserves.

[Saberestar]

You can see Bol Bol and KD here behind Paul George and KAT at the same workout.

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[enigmatics]

I was also part of the contingent who only watched highlights, a few games and thought why the hell not but over the past few days, I have done more research and watched more games and come to the conclusion his attitude might be the biggest red flag. The attitude is just not what you want to deal with especially when he's not going to get the kind of playing time he thinks he deserves.

One has to consider the idea he might have thought that on a chitty Magic team and was trying to showout too much.

On this Suns team? It's pretty obvious things would be different. Not saying that's certain, but he's not going to get away with any of the stuff shown in his lowlights - not with the veterans on the roster. The Magic didn't have any of that to reign him in. That team is literally a bunch of youngins playing for their next contract or max extension.

All in all if he come here he's basically just going to be asked to be a guy who on isolated occasions poses as a freak matchup offensively or mop up duty. Come to think of it maybe a guy you bring out against Wemby lol.

Listening to in-game analysts say "UnBOLievable" or "BOLercoaster" would be hilarious.

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[enigmatics]

You can see Bol Bol and KD here behind Paul George and KAT at the same workout.

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That's exactly who you'd want to see him around too.

[bwgood77]

We used the TWolves as kind of our G league team:

Spoiler:

Breaking down the promising first steps for Josh Okogie and Keita Bates-Diop

By Jon Krawczynski
Jul 17, 2018

LAS VEGAS — In five days at Las Vegas Summer League, the conversations with executives and scouts around the league kept heading in the same direction.

“The Timberwolves had a nice draft,” those talent evaluators said, often unprompted.

Las Vegas offered the first chance to see first-round pick Josh Okogie and second-round pick Keita Bates-Diop on the floor in competition as professionals. As far as first impressions go, the two showed the kind of defensive mindset and aggressive, attacking offensive approach that Tom Thibodeau desperately needs in the new-look second unit.

It is always wise not to place too much stock into performance in summer league play. Remember, Jonny Flynn and Randy Foye had outstanding turns in summer play too. Instead, it’s best to watch how they approach the game and see if lines can be drawn to what they will be asked to do when the lights come on in the fall.

Bates-Diop played five games in Vegas and Okogie played four, and the early returns are promising, if not definitive.

“I like their approach,” Thibodeau said. “They came in early. They started working right away. They got into the playbooks. Very serious-minded. The first thing is learning how to work and learning a system. And then out here, it’s their first taste of NBA basketball.”

In two years of Thibodeau’s tenure in Minnesota, one thing that has become clear is his description of a player as “serious-minded” is among his highest compliments. One of his biggest quests since taking over has been to add toughness and versatility up and down the roster.

With no more room to add trusted veterans to the second unit, the Timberwolves need their rookies to be playable in Year 1. The Wolves are still short on wing depth, with Derrick Rose figuring to take many of Jamal Crawford’s minutes at shooting guard next season opposite point guard Tyus Jones. That opens the door for Okogie to pick up some solid playing time as a rookie if he can fill the need for a hard-nosed perimeter defender.

Okogie showed those tendencies in his Vegas stint. He averaged 2.25 steals and 2.0 blocks per game, using his 7-foot wingspan to disrupt shots at the rim and erase passing lanes.

Okogie’s anticipation and willingness to dive on the floor for loose balls bring the kind of intensity that Georgia Tech coach Josh Pastner saw last season, and something the Timberwolves second unit simply didn’t have when Butler and Wiggins went to the bench.

“He’s big, he’s strong, he can guard multiple positions,” Pastner said. “The way the NBA is now with switching screens, he can guard different guys in different spots. He won’t lay on a screen. He’ll get over a screen. He’s got big hands, long arms. He looks like he’s a middle linebacker. He understands how important defense is. He’s a great defensive rebounder, too.”

Okogie averaged 5.3 rebounds in just over 32 minutes per game. Butler averaged 5.3 boards per game last season while Wiggins was at 4.4. Of course, those stats came in NBA games and not against youngsters and journeymen in summer league, but Okogie did show a willingness to crash the boards on both ends that will have to translate to the next level for the Wolves to avoid some of the steep drop-offs on defense when they go to their bench next season.

Even more impressive, though, was Okogie’s shot-blocking instincts. He aggressively meets opponents at the rim, using his athleticism and physicality to make seemingly open layups anything but easy.

That’s where the competitiveness comes into play. Okogie had maybe his worst half of the summer league in the final game that he played against Detroit, with Thibodeau and assistant coach John Lucas III hinting that fatigue may have come into play. But he had four blocked shots in the second half, helping the Timberwolves get back into the game after being down by as much as 21 points.

“His effort in the second half was unbelievable,” Lucas said. “It was big-time plays.”

Okogie’s shooting woes certainly aren’t what the Wolves wanted to see when they did so little to add more shooting this offseason. In Vegas, Okogie was still able to be effective offensively by blowing by the defense on the perimeter to get to the rim for layups, fouls, or assists (he averaged 2.3 dimes per game).

“A guy like me that likes to get downhill, I draw a lot of guys and draw a lot of attention when I get to the rack,” Okogie said. “Someone’s always going to be open. It’s going to be important for me to find the open guy and make the right play.”

Opponents won’t give up that ground as easily when the real games begin. They will force Okogie to prove to them that he can knock down the outside shot consistently before they crowd him and offer him the chance to use his speed and quickness to get to the rim. He shot 38 percent from three in two seasons at Georgia Tech, and his transition to the longer three-point shot in the pros will be critical.

“Usually coming in, the adjustment to the NBA three, you want to see if they’re comfortable with it,” Thibodeau said. “They’re both very comfortable. When you watch them shooting in practice, there’s no hesitation. It’s definitely within their range, so I think that’s a fit as well.”

Bates-Diop led the Wolves with 14.8 points per game, grabbed 7.4 boards and blocked 1.2 shots per game. He doesn’t have the off-the-charts athleticism that Okogie does, but Bates-Diop showed the kind of craftiness that made him the Big Ten Player of the Year at Ohio State.

Again, with Bates-Diop the defense was the more encouraging aspect of his game. Long arms and natural instincts helped him challenge shots that the Wolves simply didn’t last season. But it will also come with a notable difference this fall.

“From a terminology standpoint and fundamentals standpoint, he’s going to be able to play right away,” said USC Upstate coach Dave Dickerson, who coached Bates-Diop as an assistant on the Buckeyes staff. “He’s been around good coaching, he’s seen really good players. He’s seen a work ethic, all of those things that Thibs will appreciate.”

In speaking to scouts around the league in Vegas, the biggest reasons for KBD’s fall to No. 48 in the second round were his age — at 22, he doesn’t fit the profile of an up-and-comer like many teams look for in the draft — and some mild concerns about the leg injuries that caused him to miss most of the season two years ago. One executive for a Western Conference team said that Bates-Diop may have been done in by his level-headed approach to the game. It’s not a sexy, highlight-filled game. But the fundamentals and the control set him apart.

“They’re long, they challenge shots well, they’re multiple-effort guys,” Thibodeau said. “They play with a lot of toughness and we like that with both guys.”

https://theathletic.com/434312/2018/07/17/timberwolves-summer-league-josh-okogie-keita-bates-diop-breaking-down-first-steps/

[sunskerr]

You can see Bol Bol and KD here behind Paul George and KAT at the same workout.

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That's exactly who you'd want to see him around too.

Honestly Id prefer he be around PJ Tucker ok, thats obviously impossible to happen.

But I dont want Bol as a guy who is isolating and taking off the dribble shots. The fastest track to success for a guy like him is going to be shoring up his defensive mistakes and working on his 3 ball so he can hit the corner 3 while being a shot blocker at PF/C, and then adding some damn muscle for once (seriously where is the muscle after four years??). He is already good at attacking the close out and getting to the rim as well as good instincts for blocking shots in both man to man and helping/weak side.

I get what you're saying from a physical profile and he can learn to have a good mind set in terms of work from KD though, so its still good.

Well I must admit as harsh as I am on him, though I am not opposed or in favor of signing him, it will be fun to watch his garbage minutes. I do hope he can carve out a role since he has an intriguing physical profile and when he's making plays its fun basketball.

If he fails maybe we can take a look at OKCs Pokusevski in a year to repeat the Bol experiment, seeing as he will in all likelihood be behind Chet, Robinson-Earl, and Jay Williams from the jump, and sometimes they play Giddey and Jalen Williams up to the 4.

[Slim Charless]

You can see Bol Bol and KD here behind Paul George and KAT at the same workout.

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That's exactly who you'd want to see him around too.

Honestly Id prefer he be around PJ Tucker ok, thats obviously impossible to happen.

But I dont want Bol as a guy who is isolating and taking off the dribble shots. The fastest track to success for a guy like him is going to be shoring up his defensive mistakes and working on his 3 ball so he can hit the corner 3 while being a shot blocker at PF/C, and then adding some damn muscle for once (seriously where is the muscle after four years??). He is already good at attacking the close out and getting to the rim as well as good instincts for blocking shots in both man to man and helping/weak side.

I get what you're saying from a physical profile and he can learn to have a good mind set in terms of work from KD though, so its still good.

Well I must admit as harsh as I am on him, though I am not opposed or in favor of signing him, it will be fun to watch his garbage minutes. I do hope he can carve out a role since he has an intriguing physical profile and when he's making plays its fun basketball.

If he fails maybe we can take a look at OKCs Pokusevski in a year to repeat the Bol experiment, seeing as he will in all likelihood be behind Chet, Robinson-Earl, and Jay Williams from the jump, and sometimes they play Giddey and Jalen Williams up to the 4.

We need to be on the phone with OKC for these and many other reasons. Have any of you guys noticed that they've reached maximum capacity of players? Plus, they have another 30 picks rolling in over the next 5 years lol. They literally cannot keep these guys. That's why they did that dumb trade with Denver giving up 3 picks for a 1st that's 5 years away. They've horded too much.

This needs to be our Ayton team if we move him. I think we can get probably another 3 or 4 picks along with Poku, Jaylin Williams, Deing, Tyty and Dort from them in some combination. They just can't keep or much less pay all of these guys. Or even just a team to steal some youth and picks from. If it's true that Ish wants to bring back a Gleague team then this is the answer imo. OKC has to do something and soon here, we should be the ones to make the 1st move there.

[sunskerr]

We need to be on the phone with OKC for these and many other reasons. Have any of you guys noticed that they've reached maximum capacity of players? Plus, they have another 30 picks rolling in over the next 5 years lol. They literally cannot keep these guys. That's why they did that dumb trade with Denver giving up 3 picks for a 1st that's 5 years away. They've horded too much.

This needs to be our Ayton team if we move him. I think we can get probably another 3 or 4 picks along with Poku, Jaylin Williams, Deing, Tyty and Dort from them in some combination. They just can't keep or much less pay all of these guys. Or even just a team to steal some youth and picks from. If it's true that Ish wants to bring back a Gleague team then this is the answer imo. OKC has to do something and soon here, we should be the ones to make the 1st move there.

I'd include Robinson-Earl in that potential young role player list of guys.

Yeah somethings gonna have to give in OKC. Chet and Jalen look like stars in the making and Giddey might not be far behind (although his ceiling looks lower). Thats four (with SGA) guys who will command large contracts. My guess is they'd prefer all of those guys back and would not be interested in adding Ayton to that group of four on his large contract at $30m.

I guess they will look to add a cheap center to relieve Chet as he grows. Or Robinson-Earl could fill in and they just say "ok you guys are our 4/5" and not really care about who the center is, because JRE can play small ball 5.

But I specifically mentioned Poku because he's on the outside of the rotation looking in so like Bol there may be situation where they simply let him leave and his value is low and could be picked up on the minimum next offseason (like Bol). Similar lanky build obviously, but Poku has more handles, passing, a better shot (kind of?), and is quicker laterally.

[Slim Charless]

We need to be on the phone with OKC for these and many other reasons. Have any of you guys noticed that they've reached maximum capacity of players? Plus, they have another 30 picks rolling in over the next 5 years lol. They literally cannot keep these guys. That's why they did that dumb trade with Denver giving up 3 picks for a 1st that's 5 years away. They've horded too much.

This needs to be our Ayton team if we move him. I think we can get probably another 3 or 4 picks along with Poku, Jaylin Williams, Deing, Tyty and Dort from them in some combination. They just can't keep or much less pay all of these guys. Or even just a team to steal some youth and picks from. If it's true that Ish wants to bring back a Gleague team then this is the answer imo. OKC has to do something and soon here, we should be the ones to make the 1st move there.

I'd include Robinson-Earl in that potential young role player list of guys.

Yeah somethings gonna have to give in OKC. Chet and Jalen look like stars in the making and Giddey might not be far behind (although his ceiling looks lower). Thats four (with SGA) guys who will command large contracts. My guess is they'd prefer all of those guys back and would not be interested in adding Ayton to that group of four on his large contract at $30m.

I guess they will look to add a cheap center to relieve Chet as he grows. Or Robinson-Earl could fill in and they just say "ok you guys are our 4/5" and not really care about who the center is, because JRE can play small ball 5.

But I specifically mentioned Poku because he's on the outside of the rotation looking in so like Bol there may be situation where they simply let him leave and his value is low and could be picked up on the minimum next offseason (like Bol). Similar lanky build obviously, but Poku has more handles, passing, a better shot (kind of?), and is quicker laterally.

Well, that's why I mentioned Dort. His deal goes for another 4 years, so he'd need to leave. If we added in another couple of their guys thay will need to be paid here soon they'll do it. Or 1 of their bad cap dudes-that would mean they have to pay up in pick form. They'll need a center to play next to Chet who they don't even know whether or not can stay healthy. They were the smallest team in the league last year by a long shot. They can use Ayton.

Either way OKC is the move. Whether we trade them Ayton or not, we need to be trying to steal some value from a team that literally will have to give away players/picks for nothing soon.