2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[BobbieL]

You guys just keep dumping on Book for this mess? What a ‘what have you done for me lately’ crowd. This team was practically sabotaged… and now Book is treated like casual collateral damage to discard for what can only amount to dice rolls and two in the bushes. Besides, there is equal or more chance he’ll increase in value come mid season next yr when teams are really making a push.

So Really ? It’s his fault the maniacal meddler Mat completely screwed the pooch by misjudging the type of personnel needed for Book to thrive? It sure seems like some of you know now exactly what he doesn’t need.

Of course, I still blame Ishbia most of all - first the overpaying for Durant, followed by the terrible trades with Beal and Ayton.

That said, Booker needs an alpha player next to him. I don't think that can happen. If I could see a realistic trade proposal that brings back that player in a Durant trade - I would consider keeping Booker. I just haven't seen a trade that does that. So you spin your wheels trying to make it work, Bookers value goes down, and the pattern will last a long time. You asked how a remodel can happen in phases - well Bookers value can only get worse as he gets older - unless another Ishbia buys a team

Durant and Booker aren't the biggest problems - but they are the most realistic solution.

"Durant and Booker aren't the biggest problems - but they are the most realistic solution."

That is a fair statement, but I am very skeptical of what we get back in a trade for either of those guys. We are not going to be gifted an all NBA player or lottery picks that could become an all NBA player. I expect we will get back a raft of:

Grayson Allen's, Royce O'Neale's, Ryan Dunn's to replace them along with poor draft picks. I hope like everyone else that we get back some legit starters along with a raft of draft picks that can get us excited again. I do not trust Ishbia to make the correct decisions, and I doubt any of the other owners are going to give away the farm for either KD or Book. I am all in if they do.

I just remember how James Jones was given great credit for the players he brought in for the 23/24 season and again for the 24/25 season. How it was just great that we got rid of Ayton it gave us all this great flexibility. The lucrative contracts we handed out to Grayson Allen and Royce O'Neale were pure genius. Why, we could move them down the road for a piece that we needed. What team would want either of those guys. I know GOK and the fantasy minds on this board will dream up some scenario. It ain't happening. We are stuck with both of them along with KD, Book and Beal.

However, if you remember Matt's original comments when acquiring KD regarding the risk of dumping all our draft picks, he said that we would have money to spend in free agency after KD's, Beal's and Book's contracts end.

That is why I see it going one of two ways. We either trade KD, Beale and Book (Matt reportedly will not trade Book) or we will extend KD while keeping Book and dumping Beal while adding better pieces and a new head coach.

I expect our answers to which way we are headed will have to wait until just before that NBA draft.

I do expect Bud to be fired just after our last game, why wait. If we are going to fire Jones, that needs to happen at the same time. That will give our new Coach and GM a chance to put a plan together prior to the draft, if Ish will allow it.

My guess, Ishbia will do something that creates the worst outcome in the long term and does nothing really to move the needle short term
Just activity

[Puff]

I have not watched a lot of college basketball, but I did watch this year's final four.

Wow! All four of those teams played as if they really cared. That is all I want from next year's Phoenix Suns. At this point I could care less who is our coach, GM or who is on the player roster. If they play hard every night, I will support them. If they play like they have this season, I will find something to watch.

I got a name to throw out as our next head coach. Jason Kidd.

I know he had an issue with his wife, but I could not take my eyes off of him when he played for us. He wasn't the best shooter in the world, but he just never quit on a play. I could not get enough of him. I think he has done a very good job in Dallas. That team plays hard. I would not mind seeing him as our next head coach, if at all possible.

[BobbieL]

I have not watched a lot of college basketball, but I did watch this year's final four.

Wow! All four of those teams played as if they really cared. That is all I want from next year's Phoenix Suns. At this point I could care less who is our coach, GM or who is on the player roster. If they play hard every night, I will support them. If they play like they have this season, I will find something to watch.

I got a name to throw out as our next head coach. Jason Kidd.

I know he had an issue with his wife, but I could not take my eyes off of him when he played for us. He wasn't the best shooter in the world, but he just never quit on a play. I could not get enough of him. I think he has done a very good job in Dallas. That team plays hard. I would not mind seeing him as our next head coach, if at all possible.

I saw his name mentioned - who knows, he might want out in Dallas

Another name I have seen speculated - the JYD -- Jared Dudley

[Djedefre]

There is only one Junkyard dog aka JYD, and that is Jerome Williams

[SunsRback4Good]

There is only one Junkyard dog aka JYD, and that is Jared Dudley

Fixed!

[Puff]

I have not watched a lot of college basketball, but I did watch this year's final four.

Wow! All four of those teams played as if they really cared. That is all I want from next year's Phoenix Suns. At this point I could care less who is our coach, GM or who is on the player roster. If they play hard every night, I will support them. If they play like they have this season, I will find something to watch.

I got a name to throw out as our next head coach. Jason Kidd.

I know he had an issue with his wife, but I could not take my eyes off of him when he played for us. He wasn't the best shooter in the world, but he just never quit on a play. I could not get enough of him. I think he has done a very good job in Dallas. That team plays hard. I would not mind seeing him as our next head coach, if at all possible.

I saw his name mentioned - who knows, he might want out in Dallas

Another name I have seen speculated - the JYD -- Jared Dudley

I wouldn't mind Dudley but I also think Jeff Van Gundy could do well. He has really helped the Clippers this year. I will be rooting for them in the playoffs as I was season ticket holder for them 30 years ago. That is when Billy Crystal attended virtually every Clipper game. We both and many others could not stand the Lakers. No I do not know Billy Crystal, I just saw him in the front row of games.

The point is that there are options. It is not the end of the world if Bud is not back as our head coach. I actually saw a rumor a while back that Bud could be in line to replace Popovich in San Antonio. Maybe that is why he appears to not care about our team. Who would, if he is in line to replace Popovich.

[bwgood77]

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#neverforget

Him and Book called Beal to convince him. Beal talked about it being a reason he decided to come, to hear from them personally.

So we trade Booker and reload around KD and Beal?

Well ideally for me, as I've said a lot. Trade KD for whatever we can get. Then trade Book for whatever we can get, but preferably to Houston for our picks back. However, if we move up to #1, they won't trade us back that one. But even if we get our other two, a couple of their young players, and then filler of Green, VanVleet or Brooks, we could do it.

If they don't get #1 hopefully we could get all 3 of our picks. We really could maybe get more picks.

Houston really just needs a go to scorer to be a real threat. I think they are very close. And Udoka would probably rather not wait for picks to pan out while his vets expire. Unless he gets Flagg.

Then we are young and athletic with our picks and when Beal expires we can have a ton of cap space that summer to add some key players to our young guys.

That's by far the best course of action.

[BobbieL]

Him and Book called Beal to convince him. Beal talked about it being a reason he decided to come, to hear from them personally.

So we trade Booker and reload around KD and Beal?

Well ideally for me, as I've said a lot. Trade KD for whatever we can get. Then trade Book for whatever we can get, but preferably to Houston for our picks back. However, if we move up to #1, they won't trade us back that one. But even if we get our other two, a couple of their young players, and then filler of Green, VanVleet or Brooks, we could do it.

If they don't get #1 hopefully we could get all 3 of our picks. We really could maybe get more picks.

Houston really just needs a go to scorer to be a real threat. I think they are very close. And Udoka would probably rather not wait for picks to pan out while his vets expire. Unless he gets Flagg.

Then we are young and athletic with our picks and when Beal expires we can have a ton of cap space that summer to add some key players to our young guys.

That's by far the best course of action.

Agreed and I would also try to trade Allen and O"Neale - each would have value to teams probably closer to winning. Trade them, hopefully , for contracts that expire in 2027. I don't truly care the return that much

[SkyBill40]

As I understand it, there's a new provision that allows for an extended waive and stretch in the CBA. If Ishbia entertains that, if we can even make it work, that'll mean having ~ $20 DEAD MONEY on our books for the next five years. That's a decent mid level player or a couple lower tier filler guys. As much as I dislike Beal for his lack of availability and his smugness with his no trade clause, I don't know if it's worse to just keep him until his contract runs out or engage the stretch. It's a bad beat no matter what we do and I'm sure Ishbia will do whatever is worse.

Regardless, in the end, James Jones needs to be fired.

[BobbieL]

[quote="SkyBill40"]As I understand it, there's a new provision that allows for an extended waive and stretch in the CBA. If Ishbia entertains that, if we can even make it work, that'll mean having ~ $20 DEAD MONEY on our books for the next five years. That's a decent mid level player or a couple lower tier filler guys. As much as I dislike Beal for his lack of availability and his smugness with his no trade clause, I don't know if it's worse to just keep him until his contract runs out or engage the stretch. It's a bad beat no matter what we do and I'm sure Ishbia will do whatever is worse.

1) yes, he needs to be fired

2) I think you nailed - having that much money tied up is stupid. So you get the MLE exception - big whoop. Its two years, suck it up and get that big old expiring in two years

[bwgood77]

So we trade Booker and reload around KD and Beal?

Well ideally for me, as I've said a lot. Trade KD for whatever we can get. Then trade Book for whatever we can get, but preferably to Houston for our picks back. However, if we move up to #1, they won't trade us back that one. But even if we get our other two, a couple of their young players, and then filler of Green, VanVleet or Brooks, we could do it.

If they don't get #1 hopefully we could get all 3 of our picks. We really could maybe get more picks.

Houston really just needs a go to scorer to be a real threat. I think they are very close. And Udoka would probably rather not wait for picks to pan out while his vets expire. Unless he gets Flagg.

Then we are young and athletic with our picks and when Beal expires we can have a ton of cap space that summer to add some key players to our young guys.

That's by far the best course of action.

Agreed and I would also try to trade Allen and O"Neale - each would have value to teams probably closer to winning. Trade them, hopefully , for contracts that expire in 2027. I don't truly care the return that much

Yeah, all those guys. Those guys should get us 2nds. We'd probably need to take back someone else though or hopefully get an expiring unless a team had cap space and wanted to add vets to a young team ready to start competing or something (I only mention young teams since they are more likely to have cap space).

[Slim Charless]

Well ideally for me, as I've said a lot. Trade KD for whatever we can get. Then trade Book for whatever we can get, but preferably to Houston for our picks back. However, if we move up to #1, they won't trade us back that one. But even if we get our other two, a couple of their young players, and then filler of Green, VanVleet or Brooks, we could do it.

If they don't get #1 hopefully we could get all 3 of our picks. We really could maybe get more picks.

Houston really just needs a go to scorer to be a real threat. I think they are very close. And Udoka would probably rather not wait for picks to pan out while his vets expire. Unless he gets Flagg.

Then we are young and athletic with our picks and when Beal expires we can have a ton of cap space that summer to add some key players to our young guys.

That's by far the best course of action.

Agreed and I would also try to trade Allen and O"Neale - each would have value to teams probably closer to winning. Trade them, hopefully , for contracts that expire in 2027. I don't truly care the return that much

Yeah, all those guys. Those guys should get us 2nds. We'd probably need to take back someone else though or hopefully get an expiring unless a team had cap space and wanted to add vets to a young team ready to start competing or something (I only mention young teams since they are more likely to have cap space).

I don't think we'll get anything for Allen or especially for Royce. We can however add them into a Booker package as a sort of tax to whoever we trade him to. Detroit is the one I'm constantly bringing up since they have need there and are Booker's home team. But they also have a ton of cap space and can absorb 1 of those guys and Book with little difficulty. Once we take back some of their guys.

These playoffs will be huge for the Suns-even though we won't be playing in them. Depending on how things work out for teams like Minnesota and the OKC/Detroit/HOU combo we can reap a ton of assets if those teams fall short and decide they're 1 more star away from winning the title.

OKC is especially interesting as they're starting to show that Jdubb isn't really a #2. He's maybe a #3. Which if true means maybe Presti is open to moving him or Chet for Booker.....

I can dream at least.

[lilfishi22]

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There seems to be a disturbing trend brewing now with this outcome of a fundamental disconnect between ownership and coaches resulting in these puzzling firings?

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While it's good for us that there are more quality coaches available to replace Bud, I also think those vacancies could also hurt our case. Both Memphis and Denver are in far better positions to be competitive right away while we have a lot of work to do just to regroup. I'd also rather coach in Jokic and build a system around one of the greatest players of all time or even a volatile but damn good player in Ja than having to take two steps back first to take one step forward with Book.

ja Morant is pretty overrated and doesn’t appear to be very bright… like at all. He pisses in the wind when it comes to dunking which is cool on espn but the dude is going to get hurt. I can’t see him staying out of trouble for long either. Regardless I definitely wouldn’t build a team around him.

All valid points.....but he's insanely talented, only 25 and has been great in the playoffs. He's not blue chip talent because of the off court issues but you'd rather have him than a lesser talent.

[SunsRback4Good]

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Fire Nico!!!

[SunsRback4Good]

There were a ton of “ Fire Nico” chants at Dallas arena. He can’t ban every single one of them right? Maybe with facial recognition it’s possible.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Never forget!!!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BobbieL]

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What stupid thing will Mat do?

Buying out - stupid

Stretching — really stupid

Trading if you have to include draft picks - really really really stupid

[RaisingArizona]

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Tg

[Slim Charless]

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What stupid thing will Mat do?

Buying out - stupid

Stretching — really stupid

Trading if you have to include draft picks - really really really stupid

The only other option is to trade him for another (worse) contract. So probably Paul George.