Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[MathiasPW]

Which position is more important for us to get a star player at PG or C?

pg

If people must pigeon hole everyone into positions, I would say PG too, but we basically just need a star period, but we desperately need shooting. But really if players can be versatile you just want as many as possible that can do some or all of the following things at a high level: Shoot, playmake/pass, defend, block shots - and its almost a necessity to have a high bbiq, and of course to have drive, dedication and work hard.

No one would have ever looked at Draymond Green, for example, as a C, but he plays C a ton, and he leads the team in assists, but he also has extreme length allowing him to block a ton of shots and defend multiple positions.

But considering the things I mentioned, and needing shooters/passers, is why I would put Doncic and Young at the top of the draft list. They have the high iq, can both shoot and pass. Young is a premier shooter and passer and other things.

While it would be nice to get a great big at the top, they would not have as much impact imo unless they are a premier shot blocker off the bat. I would probably put Ayton slightly over Bamba because I think he is more of a sure thing, I think Bamba could potentially have more initial impact if his defense immediately translates. I'll take his blocks and premier defense and switch ability, etc, over a C who just scores and rebounds. Though Ayton may eventually be somewhat like Embiid with perhaps a 3 pt shot.

I'll have to look more at some of the other Cs though like Jaren Jackson, especially since he is so young. Tom Izzo coached players seem to often do well in the NBA, particularly considering where they were drafted (Draymond Green, Gary Harris), so even though Jackson is rated fairly highly, he may still be under the radar a little bit, and his dad played with Duncan and Robinson...not that it means a lot, but he's obviously probably been watching and perhaps studying basketball since he was little. My guess is he will likely have great fundamentals. And of course Porter, if he checks out physically is almost a guy you can't pass up if you are there at 5 or 6 with these guys gone...or at least based on his rep you can't....but then again you never know for sure without seeing him against college competition (and then I guess you often still don't know).

McD better just do a damn good job in this draft regardless of where our picks land.

This. We should be talking about SKILLS needed, not positions. And we need playmaking, shooting, defense, in that order, the most.

[NavLDO]

Its all about the draft. Young, Doncic, Sexton, Duval.

Wonder if Booker could play pg with Reed at the 2.

I think our biggest issue that we dont have a point guard that is a pass first guard (starter level) for this reason i dont think is that type of passer and i sure as heck dont think that Sexton is anywhere close to that. I have said it before i am sick of combo guards claiming to be points.

I'll say this again. People need to think outside the box in terms of a pass first point guard. We don't need that. Really, we don't. Neither Kobe or Jordan played next to a pass first point guard. What we really need is a point guard who can hit the three, play really good defense, and occasionally handle the ball. Seriously, the ball needs to be in Booker's hands to initiate the offense. If Daniels played decent defense then he would be ideal. Jackson and Reed should be candidates for the type of player we want to put next to Booker. Jackson needs to rebuild his shot to have any hope of lasting in the league but if he does then he could play next to Booker. Reed supposedly has the shot and defensive chops (7' wing span) plus some ball handling abilities. He may be the exactly what the doctor ordered.

I'm actually good with that, but I worry about when he'll get an opportunity to prove that he's what we need. I hope that whoever the 'decision maker' is about when to bring up Reed from the G league, decides quickly, AND, Triano gets him out on the floor with some REAL minutes with Booker and Warren.

Ultimately, the Suns should be ensuring that for at least 10-15 MPG, we have a lineup of Booker / Reed / Warren / Chriss or Bender / Len, as well as, if they haven't, ensure that JJ gets burn at the 2-spot as well with that line-up, to see how they all look together, to see if that's a viable lineup for next season going forward. Of course, that's predicated upon McD/Triano being of the same mindset of myself that that lineup could be 'killer'.

[jredsaz]

So, continuing a thought from one of the game threads, I believe, and based upon the evidence, we have two players that are easily ranked in the top 5-7 at their respective positions in the way of production in Warren and Booker.

Funny, because on the Dunc'd on pod a few weeks ago, they didn't list TJ in the top, like, 30 or so small forwards. My ears got hot listening to that ****.

They also said Booker wasn't one of the top 10 under 23 players in the NBA. Crazy.

Well, not sure what they are basing that on--likely BPM, which two of the key components it takes into its ranking players is 3PT% and Asst%, which, we all know, are not only Warren's weak points, but they are almost non-existent, which REALLY skews his numbers. So fine, let them think that way. But at the end of the day, for example, of these 5, who would you want as your SF, taking into account salaries...

Rob Covington at 5yrs/$61M
Andrew Wiggins at 4yrs/$146.5M
Tobias Harris at 4yrs/$64M
Harrison Barnes at 4yrs/$94.5M

...or...

TJ Warren at 5yrs/$53M

https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?direction=desc&player_ids%5B%5D=1463&player_ids%5B%5D=1269&player_ids%5B%5D=1374&player_ids%5B%5D=1476&player_ids%5B%5D=603&season=2017&sort=field_goal_percentage&utf8=%E2%9C%93

Anyway...on Booker, they are just nuts. Plain and simple.

The fact is, Warren and Booker are, without a doubt, as I mentioned, top 5-7 at their position in the NBA, all things considered. And Len?? Easily top 10. Laugh all you want, but compare his numbers to other Centers...go ahead and pick a category and try to put Len at the bottom of the stack. Stls and 3FGA/%...that's it. Every other Category he's squarely in the middle somewhere between 4th and 9th.

https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?direction=desc&player_ids%5B%5D=1424&player_ids%5B%5D=1264&player_ids%5B%5D=1497&player_ids%5B%5D=129&player_ids%5B%5D=289&player_ids%5B%5D=243&player_ids%5B%5D=298&player_ids%5B%5D=1516&player_ids%5B%5D=3070&player_ids%5B%5D=149&player_ids%5B%5D=1500&player_ids%5B%5D=519&player_ids%5B%5D=1378&player_ids%5B%5D=1419&season=2017&sort=per48_defensive_rebounds&utf8=%E2%9C%93

It'll never happen, so I'm bold enough to say, LOL, that next season, IF...McD starts...

Doncic or Trae Young (or a FA/Traded for PG) / Booker / Warren / Bender or Chriss (committed to; not 20 MPG each like this yr) / Len

...for the majority of the season (over 65 games or so)--we are a solid playoff team (at least 7th Seed)...guaranteed. But nope...

Len will gone. Bender and Chriss will still play this tag-team game they are playing now, and we'll have some combo of Knight/Canaan/Ulis and another 2nd Rd project or other scrub-level talent FA at PG.

You all tell me...given McD's track record, which is more likely to happen??

Our Assets used to good use by targeting a single PG + a single Center of the Future (be it Len or a Lotto-picked Center + a Lotto or high-level FA PG)...AND...a choice is made and one of our PFs is committed to as our future starter...

...OR...

...more of the same as this year, only BK is added to the mix, Chandler remains the starting Center, and Chriss continues to start, but still only averaging 2-240 MPG with Bender coming in to avg the other 20-24MPG.

Covington
Harris
Barnes
Warren
Wiggins

[NavLDO]

What is Bradley's max? Keep in mind that would be an expensive backcourt starting in two years. Fit wise it's great.

I'd rather not offer a contract to a guy who just paid off a woman to ensure his professed 'innocence' in a sexual assault accusation case, remained as such. Nothing like having money to make your problems go away.

"I'm Innocent, I tell you...Innoncent!"

(Digs into his 'deep' pockets) -- (to the accuser..."We're good, now, right? A couple Million Dollars, and you don't bring this up ever again?? Yeah? Good? Cool!")

"See, I told you I was innocent, all along!"

Yeah, no thanks...

EDIT: Oh, and before anyone looks at my 'teams' and wants to point out hypocrisy on my part, due to Ben Roethlisberger and his exploits, early in his career, I would feel the exact same way; I wouldn't want my favorite team to sign a player like that. Problem is, he was already there, and the Organization decided to stick with him through it. I'm not going to change my favorite team that I've been of since 1977 due to the exploits of one 'bad apple'...if I did that, I wouldn't be a sports fan at all, since every team has had its share of 'idiots'.

All I'm saying, with this particular example with Avery Bradley, is that we do not need to attract that type attention to our team, especially with a bunch of youngsters.

[bigfoot]

pg

If people must pigeon hole everyone into positions, I would say PG too, but we basically just need a star period, but we desperately need shooting. But really if players can be versatile you just want as many as possible that can do some or all of the following things at a high level: Shoot, playmake/pass, defend, block shots - and its almost a necessity to have a high bbiq, and of course to have drive, dedication and work hard.

No one would have ever looked at Draymond Green, for example, as a C, but he plays C a ton, and he leads the team in assists, but he also has extreme length allowing him to block a ton of shots and defend multiple positions.

But considering the things I mentioned, and needing shooters/passers, is why I would put Doncic and Young at the top of the draft list. They have the high iq, can both shoot and pass. Young is a premier shooter and passer and other things.

While it would be nice to get a great big at the top, they would not have as much impact imo unless they are a premier shot blocker off the bat. I would probably put Ayton slightly over Bamba because I think he is more of a sure thing, I think Bamba could potentially have more initial impact if his defense immediately translates. I'll take his blocks and premier defense and switch ability, etc, over a C who just scores and rebounds. Though Ayton may eventually be somewhat like Embiid with perhaps a 3 pt shot.

I'll have to look more at some of the other Cs though like Jaren Jackson, especially since he is so young. Tom Izzo coached players seem to often do well in the NBA, particularly considering where they were drafted (Draymond Green, Gary Harris), so even though Jackson is rated fairly highly, he may still be under the radar a little bit, and his dad played with Duncan and Robinson...not that it means a lot, but he's obviously probably been watching and perhaps studying basketball since he was little. My guess is he will likely have great fundamentals. And of course Porter, if he checks out physically is almost a guy you can't pass up if you are there at 5 or 6 with these guys gone...or at least based on his rep you can't....but then again you never know for sure without seeing him against college competition (and then I guess you often still don't know).

McD better just do a damn good job in this draft regardless of where our picks land.

This. We should be talking about SKILLS needed, not positions. And we need playmaking, shooting, defense, in that order, the most.

We need shooting, defense, and then maybe playmaking. We so sorely lack shooters with >.500 2p% and > .400 3p%. That has to be the number one priority. It is unacceptable to have players like Ulis and Jackson get major minutes shooting .328/.290 and 378/.239 and between them taking 17 shots. That's just bad basketball. Basketball is first and foremost about scoring and players who can't shoot shouldn't be on the floor. Those two are even worse because neither are very good at defense right now. A double whammy.

[jcsunsfan]

Which position is more important for us to get a star player at PG or C?

pg

If people must pigeon hole everyone into positions, I would say PG too, but we basically just need a star period, but we desperately need shooting. But really if players can be versatile you just want as many as possible that can do some or all of the following things at a high level: Shoot, playmake/pass, defend, block shots - and its almost a necessity to have a high bbiq, and of course to have drive, dedication and work hard.

No one would have ever looked at Draymond Green, for example, as a C, but he plays C a ton, and he leads the team in assists, but he also has extreme length allowing him to block a ton of shots and defend multiple positions.

But considering the things I mentioned, and needing shooters/passers, is why I would put Doncic and Young at the top of the draft list. They have the high iq, can both shoot and pass. Young is a premier shooter and passer and other things.

While it would be nice to get a great big at the top, they would not have as much impact imo unless they are a premier shot blocker off the bat. I would probably put Ayton slightly over Bamba because I think he is more of a sure thing, I think Bamba could potentially have more initial impact if his defense immediately translates. I'll take his blocks and premier defense and switch ability, etc, over a C who just scores and rebounds. Though Ayton may eventually be somewhat like Embiid with perhaps a 3 pt shot.

I'll have to look more at some of the other Cs though like Jaren Jackson, especially since he is so young. Tom Izzo coached players seem to often do well in the NBA, particularly considering where they were drafted (Draymond Green, Gary Harris), so even though Jackson is rated fairly highly, he may still be under the radar a little bit, and his dad played with Duncan and Robinson...not that it means a lot, but he's obviously probably been watching and perhaps studying basketball since he was little. My guess is he will likely have great fundamentals. And of course Porter, if he checks out physically is almost a guy you can't pass up if you are there at 5 or 6 with these guys gone...or at least based on his rep you can't....but then again you never know for sure without seeing him against college competition (and then I guess you often still don't know).

McD better just do a damn good job in this draft regardless of where our picks land.

It will be much easier to pick up a center in free agency.

But Ayton is different. Having the #1 pick would actually be tough. We should take Ayton, but we need Young. He is a shooter and passer.


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[jcsunsfan]

I think our biggest issue that we dont have a point guard that is a pass first guard (starter level) for this reason i dont think is that type of passer and i sure as heck dont think that Sexton is anywhere close to that. I have said it before i am sick of combo guards claiming to be points.

I'll say this again. People need to think outside the box in terms of a pass first point guard. We don't need that. Really, we don't. Neither Kobe or Jordan played next to a pass first point guard. What we really need is a point guard who can hit the three, play really good defense, and occasionally handle the ball. Seriously, the ball needs to be in Booker's hands to initiate the offense. If Daniels played decent defense then he would be ideal. Jackson and Reed should be candidates for the type of player we want to put next to Booker. Jackson needs to rebuild his shot to have any hope of lasting in the league but if he does then he could play next to Booker. Reed supposedly has the shot and defensive chops (7' wing span) plus some ball handling abilities. He may be the exactly what the doctor ordered.

I'm actually good with that, but I worry about when he'll get an opportunity to prove that he's what we need. I hope that whoever the 'decision maker' is about when to bring up Reed from the G league, decides quickly, AND, Triano gets him out on the floor with some REAL minutes with Booker and Warren.

Ultimately, the Suns should be ensuring that for at least 10-15 MPG, we have a lineup of Booker / Reed / Warren / Chriss or Bender / Len, as well as, if they haven't, ensure that JJ gets burn at the 2-spot as well with that line-up, to see how they all look together, to see if that's a viable lineup for next season going forward. Of course, that's predicated upon McD/Triano being of the same mindset of myself that that lineup could be 'killer'.

I would be willing to try Reed and Booker together. It certainly can’t hurt. The Suns are really high on Reed.

A distributor though will not help Booker as much as Warren and our forward.


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[Qwigglez]

Is anyone interested in Aaron Gordon? The new regime of the Magic didn't offer him an extension this summer mostly because he didn't deserve one based off the previous 3 years of production, they also drafted Isaacs to eventually be the starting PF although maybe he can play center at some point. Anyhow, they are sitting at 82mil in guaranteed salaries for the 2018 season not including rookies or an extension for Gordon (and Payton). They have Isaacs, Vucevic, and Biyombo also at PF/C spots.
Gordon would be like a mini Blake Griffin, except he shies away from contact as he only gets 4.3 FT's per game. He is shooting remarkably from 3 this season, and I thought maybe he was just having a good contract year, but after reviewing some game footage his 3-ball is looking solid. He also isn't nearly the passer Griffin is.
If I were the Magic GM I would definitely keep Gordon around, but again, a new regime may feel otherwise. I'd offer up Chriss and a couple of picks and see if that gets it done. Chriss has put together a string of good games lately though.
Booker, Warren, and Gordon are all 20 point scorers, and I imagine their efficiency would likely go up having all three in the lineup making it difficult for opposing defenses.
Anyway, just a thought, what you guys think?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'll say this again. People need to think outside the box in terms of a pass first point guard. We don't need that. Really, we don't. Neither Kobe or Jordan played next to a pass first point guard. What we really need is a point guard who can hit the three, play really good defense, and occasionally handle the ball. Seriously, the ball needs to be in Booker's hands to initiate the offense. If Daniels played decent defense then he would be ideal. Jackson and Reed should be candidates for the type of player we want to put next to Booker. Jackson needs to rebuild his shot to have any hope of lasting in the league but if he does then he could play next to Booker. Reed supposedly has the shot and defensive chops (7' wing span) plus some ball handling abilities. He may be the exactly what the doctor ordered.

I'm actually good with that, but I worry about when he'll get an opportunity to prove that he's what we need. I hope that whoever the 'decision maker' is about when to bring up Reed from the G league, decides quickly, AND, Triano gets him out on the floor with some REAL minutes with Booker and Warren.

Ultimately, the Suns should be ensuring that for at least 10-15 MPG, we have a lineup of Booker / Reed / Warren / Chriss or Bender / Len, as well as, if they haven't, ensure that JJ gets burn at the 2-spot as well with that line-up, to see how they all look together, to see if that's a viable lineup for next season going forward. Of course, that's predicated upon McD/Triano being of the same mindset of myself that that lineup could be 'killer'.

I would be willing to try Reed and Booker together. It certainly can’t hurt. The Suns are really high on Reed.

A distributor though will not help Booker as much as Warren and our forward.


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Pressure has to be building at this point to eliminate Tyler Ulis from the rotation. Start Daniels next to Booker, have Reed back up Daniels, have Canaan back up Booker.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Is anyone interested in Aaron Gordon? The new regime of the Magic didn't offer him an extension this summer mostly because he didn't deserve one based off the previous 3 years of production, they also drafted Isaacs to eventually be the starting PF although maybe he can play center at some point. Anyhow, they are sitting at 82mil in guaranteed salaries for the 2018 season not including rookies or an extension for Gordon (and Payton). They have Isaacs, Vucevic, and Biyombo also at PF/C spots.
Gordon would be like a mini Blake Griffin, except he shies away from contact as he only gets 4.3 FT's per game. He is shooting remarkably from 3 this season, and I thought maybe he was just having a good contract year, but after reviewing some game footage his 3-ball is looking solid. He also isn't nearly the passer Griffin is.
If I were the Magic GM I would definitely keep Gordon around, but again, a new regime may feel otherwise. I'd offer up Chriss and a couple of picks and see if that gets it done. Chriss has put together a string of good games lately though.
Booker, Warren, and Gordon are all 20 point scorers, and I imagine their efficiency would likely go up having all three in the lineup making it difficult for opposing defenses.
Anyway, just a thought, what you guys think?

Yeah I'd be interested in Gordon for sure. But if the Magic think Isaac is the future at 4, why would they want another 4 in Chriss? Pretty sure they'll give him a max or near max offer. I would.

[NavLDO]

Right now, TJ is the number 12 scoring forward in the league--not sf--among all forwards.

1. Freak
2. LeBron
3. KD
4. Anthony Davis
5. Porzingis
6. Blake
7. Alderidge
8. Middleton
9. PG
10. KLove
11 Tyreke
12. TJ Warren

Of those, he is 8th in fg% and only KLove and Tyreke have less minutes per game.

5th in scoring among small forwards, only behind James, Durant, Middleton, and PG.
3rd In scoring per 48 behind LeBron, Durant, and Michael Beasley (yes).
3rd in total points scored this year among small forwards (James, KD).
10th in rebounding among small forwards.
23rd in steals.
14th in blocked shots
5th in double doubles

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/position/small-forwards

He's going to be a great 6th man for us!

Well, that's what half the board was saying a just a few short months ago; JJ was going to be our starter all season, and Warren was going to be relegated to a 6th man type role...

Sorry...I just had to giggle when I read those comments this past August/September and shoot, many were still saying it in October/Early-November after the season started!

I'm not on to normally say 'I told you so', but in this case, I was vehemently 'pounding my fist' saying "no, no, no..." ; Warren is a starter-level SF in this league, and he is not just going to give up his starting slot because we drafted a kid at his same position. Of course, anything can happen, and something ABSOLUTELY SHOULD happen regarding JJ, because you do not waste a #4 overall pick on a 6th Man-type player, but the fact is, he's a 3, who can play some spot minutes at the 2. Well, unfortunately, we have these two guys names Booker and Warren that happen to play at the 2 & 3 positions already.

So either we need to run the offense through Booker, coach JJ 'up' at the 2 in order to be our Starting 'SG' (the defense is easy--it's his shooting that needs the coaching 'up'), continue to play Warren at the 3 on an absolute 'steal' of a contract, hope either Bender or Chriss 'get it' by the end of the season to be our starting 4, and I guess just let Len and Monroe walk at the end of the season (we wouldn't want to try to 'get' anything for Monroe before the end of the season...that would be silly... ). And Len...my goodness, can someone PLEASE slap Triano/McD around somewhat to get them to start Len the rest of the season so they can see he's actually pretty darn good.

Hey look, it's Nav, the broken record...AGAIN...so I'll continue in another thread...(don't worry, I go back to work tomorrow...)

[NavLDO]

Hey look, it's Nav, the broken record...AGAIN...(cont'd)

...but I'm hoping if I say it enough....

...anyway, we could actually start...

Booker / JJ / Warren / Chriss / Len ...then on the bench, in a 10-man rotation... (Sexton or Duval) / Reed / (Knox) / Peters / (Mitchell Robinson)

3 Draft picks, you say? Well, as I see it, we own 2 x relatively high 2nds (ours and the 2nd best of MEM/CHA), and possibly MIL if it falls after 48. Plus, of course, we own ours (8th-ish??), and Miami's (15th-ish??).

OK, that still doesn't explain how we get Knox (10-12th-ish??), Sexton (8-10th-ish??) or Duval (15-17th-ish??), or Mitchell Robinson (15-30th-ish??) Or, I would prefer taking a chance on Michael Porter, Jr (4-5th-ish??).

One option for McD, in order to make the above scenario happen would be to start selling...

Bender, '21 MIA 1st, 'whenever' MIL 1st, and Monroe, before the Trade Deadline, for the 2018 1st of...

- Brooklyn via Clev
- Bulls
- Hornets
- Hawks
- Mavericks
- Clippers
- Memphis
- Orlando
- Kings
- Utah


- Sixers
- Knicks
- Portland
- Nuggets
- Pacers
- New Orleans
- All remaining protection on Milwaukee's pick

Those on the 1st list probably wouldn't bite, but you never know...2 x Future 1sts, an Expiring, and former #4 overall coming into his own. But the 2nd list, gets a couple of players that may definitely help get them over the hump, which would give us a late teens/early 20s pick...but of course, we wouldn't trade the 2 future picks for those.

The point of course, would to be to get 3 picks...2 in the lottery, so we would need the other picks to help us do that on Draft night. But the teams onthe 1st list would still likely be lottery picks.

Anyway, that is another avenue McD COULD take to help build our team sooner rather than later; I really do not care for the picks that are 2 or 3 years from being realized.

[Saberestar]

Is anyone interested in Aaron Gordon? The new regime of the Magic didn't offer him an extension this summer mostly because he didn't deserve one based off the previous 3 years of production, they also drafted Isaacs to eventually be the starting PF although maybe he can play center at some point. Anyhow, they are sitting at 82mil in guaranteed salaries for the 2018 season not including rookies or an extension for Gordon (and Payton). They have Isaacs, Vucevic, and Biyombo also at PF/C spots.
Gordon would be like a mini Blake Griffin, except he shies away from contact as he only gets 4.3 FT's per game. He is shooting remarkably from 3 this season, and I thought maybe he was just having a good contract year, but after reviewing some game footage his 3-ball is looking solid. He also isn't nearly the passer Griffin is.
If I were the Magic GM I would definitely keep Gordon around, but again, a new regime may feel otherwise. I'd offer up Chriss and a couple of picks and see if that gets it done. Chriss has put together a string of good games lately though.
Booker, Warren, and Gordon are all 20 point scorers, and I imagine their efficiency would likely go up having all three in the lineup making it difficult for opposing defenses.
Anyway, just a thought, what you guys think?

Yeah, I would love to get Gordon as our starting PF too, but he has improved his game a lot this season and he definitely is gonna get the max from the Magic.

[jcsunsfan]

Right now, TJ is the number 12 scoring forward in the league--not sf--among all forwards.

1. Freak
2. LeBron
3. KD
4. Anthony Davis
5. Porzingis
6. Blake
7. Alderidge
8. Middleton
9. PG
10. KLove
11 Tyreke
12. TJ Warren

Of those, he is 8th in fg% and only KLove and Tyreke have less minutes per game.

5th in scoring among small forwards, only behind James, Durant, Middleton, and PG.
3rd In scoring per 48 behind LeBron, Durant, and Michael Beasley (yes).
3rd in total points scored this year among small forwards (James, KD).
10th in rebounding among small forwards.
23rd in steals.
14th in blocked shots
5th in double doubles

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/position/small-forwards

He's going to be a great 6th man for us!

Well, that's what half the board was saying a just a few short months ago; JJ was gong to be our starter all season, and Warren was going to be relegated to a 6th man type role...

Sorry...I just had to giggle when I read those comments this past August/September and shoot, many were still saying it in October/Early-November after the season started!

I'm not on to normally say 'I told you so', but in this case, I was vehemently 'pounding my fist' saying "no, no, no..." ; Warren is a starter-level SF in this league, and he is not just going to give up his starting slot because we drafted a kid at his same position. Of course, anything can happen, and something ABSOLUTELY SHOULD happen regarding JJ, because you do not waste a #4 overall pick on a 6th Man-type player, but the fact is, he's a 3, who can play some spot minutes at the 2. Well, unfortunately, we have these two guys names Booker and Warren that happen to play at the 2 & 3 positions already.

So either we need to run the offense through Booker, coach JJ 'up' at the 2 in order to be our Starting 'SG' (the defense is easy--it's his shooting that needs the coaching 'up'), continue to play Warren at the 3 on an absolute 'steal' of a contract, hope either Bender or Chriss 'get it' by the end of the season to be our starting 4, and I guess just let Len and Monroe walk at the end of the season (we wouldn't want to try to 'get' anything for Monroe before the end of the season...that would be silly... ). And Len...my goodness, can someone PLEASE slap Triano/McD around somewhat to get them to start Len the rest of the season so they can see he's actually pretty darn good.

Hey look, it's Nav, the broken record...AGAIN...so I'll continue in another thread...(don't worry, I go back to work tomorrow...)

JJ could be a sixth man, but so could Bender.


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[jcsunsfan]

Right now, TJ is the number 12 scoring forward in the league--not sf--among all forwards.

1. Freak
2. LeBron
3. KD
4. Anthony Davis
5. Porzingis
6. Blake
7. Alderidge
8. Middleton
9. PG
10. KLove
11 Tyreke
12. TJ Warren

Of those, he is 8th in fg% and only KLove and Tyreke have less minutes per game.

5th in scoring among small forwards, only behind James, Durant, Middleton, and PG.
3rd In scoring per 48 behind LeBron, Durant, and Michael Beasley (yes).
3rd in total points scored this year among small forwards (James, KD).
10th in rebounding among small forwards.
23rd in steals.
14th in blocked shots
5th in double doubles

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/position/small-forwards

He's going to be a great 6th man for us!

Well, that's what half the board was saying a just a few short months ago; JJ was gong to be our starter all season, and Warren was going to be relegated to a 6th man type role...

Sorry...I just had to giggle when I read those comments this past August/September and shoot, many were still saying it in October/Early-November after the season started!

I'm not on to normally say 'I told you so', but in this case, I was vehemently 'pounding my fist' saying "no, no, no..." ; Warren is a starter-level SF in this league, and he is not just going to give up his starting slot because we drafted a kid at his same position. Of course, anything can happen, and something ABSOLUTELY SHOULD happen regarding JJ, because you do not waste a #4 overall pick on a 6th Man-type player, but the fact is, he's a 3, who can play some spot minutes at the 2. Well, unfortunately, we have these two guys names Booker and Warren that happen to play at the 2 & 3 positions already.

So either we need to run the offense through Booker, coach JJ 'up' at the 2 in order to be our Starting 'SG' (the defense is easy--it's his shooting that needs the coaching 'up'), continue to play Warren at the 3 on an absolute 'steal' of a contract, hope either Bender or Chriss 'get it' by the end of the season to be our starting 4, and I guess just let Len and Monroe walk at the end of the season (we wouldn't want to try to 'get' anything for Monroe before the end of the season...that would be silly... ). And Len...my goodness, can someone PLEASE slap Triano/McD around somewhat to get them to start Len the rest of the season so they can see he's actually pretty darn good.

Hey look, it's Nav, the broken record...AGAIN...so I'll continue in another thread...(don't worry, I go back to work tomorrow...)

JJ could be a sixth man, but so could Bender. I have no qualms about using a #4 pick as a sixth man. Once the player is on the roster, develop him and use where he fits best. Forget about draft position.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Saberestar]

Right now, TJ is the number 12 scoring forward in the league--not sf--among all forwards.

1. Freak
2. LeBron
3. KD
4. Anthony Davis
5. Porzingis
6. Blake
7. Alderidge
8. Middleton
9. PG
10. KLove
11 Tyreke
12. TJ Warren

Of those, he is 8th in fg% and only KLove and Tyreke have less minutes per game.

5th in scoring among small forwards, only behind James, Durant, Middleton, and PG.
3rd In scoring per 48 behind LeBron, Durant, and Michael Beasley (yes).
3rd in total points scored this year among small forwards (James, KD).
10th in rebounding among small forwards.
23rd in steals.
14th in blocked shots
5th in double doubles

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/position/small-forwards

He's going to be a great 6th man for us!

Well, that's what half the board was saying a just a few short months ago; JJ was gong to be our starter all season, and Warren was going to be relegated to a 6th man type role...

Sorry...I just had to giggle when I read those comments this past August/September and shoot, many were still saying it in October/Early-November after the season started!

I'm not on to normally say 'I told you so', but in this case, I was vehemently 'pounding my fist' saying "no, no, no..." ; Warren is a starter-level SF in this league, and he is not just going to give up his starting slot because we drafted a kid at his same position. Of course, anything can happen, and something ABSOLUTELY SHOULD happen regarding JJ, because you do not waste a #4 overall pick on a 6th Man-type player, but the fact is, he's a 3, who can play some spot minutes at the 2. Well, unfortunately, we have these two guys names Booker and Warren that happen to play at the 2 & 3 positions already.

So either we need to run the offense through Booker, coach JJ 'up' at the 2 in order to be our Starting 'SG' (the defense is easy--it's his shooting that needs the coaching 'up'), continue to play Warren at the 3 on an absolute 'steal' of a contract, hope either Bender or Chriss 'get it' by the end of the season to be our starting 4, and I guess just let Len and Monroe walk at the end of the season (we wouldn't want to try to 'get' anything for Monroe before the end of the season...that would be silly... ). And Len...my goodness, can someone PLEASE slap Triano/McD around somewhat to get them to start Len the rest of the season so they can see he's actually pretty darn good.

Hey look, it's Nav, the broken record...AGAIN...so I'll continue in another thread...(don't worry, I go back to work tomorrow...)

I was really really happy when we selected Jackson with our fourth pick, but he has been disappointing so far.

I watched a lot of Kansas games during May to understand why he was the perfect fit on our roster (a lot of people were claiming that) , and the truth is that he was fantastic in college IMO. He played always under control and his decision making on offense and defense was great for the majority of the times. That gives me hope.

I think that he needs to stop shooting threes, or at least reduce his attempts a bit. His efficiency needs to go higher, he needs to play to his strengths at this moment....and those are provide energy, cutting and slashing, attack in transition and working the offensive glass.

If he gains weight and strength over the summer and improves his decision making, I can imagine him as a 6th man for us, playing a little bit of every position depending on matchups and our personal ( like Iguodala on GSW).
He can play even 30 minutes coming from the bench, so he wouldn't be a wasted pick if he develops his game and he is a do-it-all SG/SF/PF for us in the next few years.

I agree regarding Booker/Warren. We have something special in them and they are improving yet. I don't think some people understand how good they are, we have a big time building block at SG/SF with them here for sure for the next four or five years. That gives me mental peace.

[NavLDO]

Is anyone interested in Aaron Gordon? The new regime of the Magic didn't offer him an extension this summer mostly because he didn't deserve one based off the previous 3 years of production, they also drafted Isaacs to eventually be the starting PF although maybe he can play center at some point. Anyhow, they are sitting at 82mil in guaranteed salaries for the 2018 season not including rookies or an extension for Gordon (and Payton). They have Isaacs, Vucevic, and Biyombo also at PF/C spots.
Gordon would be like a mini Blake Griffin, except he shies away from contact as he only gets 4.3 FT's per game. He is shooting remarkably from 3 this season, and I thought maybe he was just having a good contract year, but after reviewing some game footage his 3-ball is looking solid. He also isn't nearly the passer Griffin is.
If I were the Magic GM I would definitely keep Gordon around, but again, a new regime may feel otherwise. I'd offer up Chriss and a couple of picks and see if that gets it done. Chriss has put together a string of good games lately though.
Booker, Warren, and Gordon are all 20 point scorers, and I imagine their efficiency would likely go up having all three in the lineup making it difficult for opposing defenses.
Anyway, just a thought, what you guys think?

Since Chriss is making a turn for the better, maybe we keep him and see if it's a 'permanent' turn around. If he starts hitting is potential...wow...he could very well be a stud in a year or two, which is why we drafted him in the first place.

[NavLDO]

Right now, TJ is the number 12 scoring forward in the league--not sf--among all forwards.

1. Freak
2. LeBron
3. KD
4. Anthony Davis
5. Porzingis
6. Blake
7. Alderidge
8. Middleton
9. PG
10. KLove
11 Tyreke
12. TJ Warren

Of those, he is 8th in fg% and only KLove and Tyreke have less minutes per game.

5th in scoring among small forwards, only behind James, Durant, Middleton, and PG.
3rd In scoring per 48 behind LeBron, Durant, and Michael Beasley (yes).
3rd in total points scored this year among small forwards (James, KD).
10th in rebounding among small forwards.
23rd in steals.
14th in blocked shots
5th in double doubles

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/position/small-forwards

He's going to be a great 6th man for us!

Well, that's what half the board was saying a just a few short months ago; JJ was gong to be our starter all season, and Warren was going to be relegated to a 6th man type role...

Sorry...I just had to giggle when I read those comments this past August/September and shoot, many were still saying it in October/Early-November after the season started!

I'm not on to normally say 'I told you so', but in this case, I was vehemently 'pounding my fist' saying "no, no, no..." ; Warren is a starter-level SF in this league, and he is not just going to give up his starting slot because we drafted a kid at his same position. Of course, anything can happen, and something ABSOLUTELY SHOULD happen regarding JJ, because you do not waste a #4 overall pick on a 6th Man-type player, but the fact is, he's a 3, who can play some spot minutes at the 2. Well, unfortunately, we have these two guys names Booker and Warren that happen to play at the 2 & 3 positions already.

So either we need to run the offense through Booker, coach JJ 'up' at the 2 in order to be our Starting 'SG' (the defense is easy--it's his shooting that needs the coaching 'up'), continue to play Warren at the 3 on an absolute 'steal' of a contract, hope either Bender or Chriss 'get it' by the end of the season to be our starting 4, and I guess just let Len and Monroe walk at the end of the season (we wouldn't want to try to 'get' anything for Monroe before the end of the season...that would be silly... ). And Len...my goodness, can someone PLEASE slap Triano/McD around somewhat to get them to start Len the rest of the season so they can see he's actually pretty darn good.

Hey look, it's Nav, the broken record...AGAIN...so I'll continue in another thread...(don't worry, I go back to work tomorrow...)

JJ could be a sixth man, but so could Bender.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Absolutely not, IMO. If they end up being '6th men-level' players, then we have wasted their value as #4 picks, and should have traded the picks when they were still so, IMO. That's why we should make JJ a starter at the 2, or trade him, IMO, for what we actually need. Reed can be the 6th-man. JJ should turn into a starting PG for us, in one way or another, either by pushing Booker to 'PG', or being traded for one.

Bender, or Chriss, either one (I just picked Bender because I've been picking Chriss for the past few weeks as 'trade bait') should also 'turn into' a starter for us, IMO...so basically, our starting Center next to the other one. That's why we had top 10 picks...to get starters. We just happened to get lucky with Warren and Booker, is all.

I'm telling you, now is the time to use these 'assets' to get our future at the two spots we are lacking. I don't care if the result is Chriss as our starting Center and Booker as our starting PG, if that is what gets us over the hump, but in all actuality, we already have our starting Center, our FO is just to dumb to make it happen...

OK...one can become our 6th man....FINE!! But I don't have to like it!

[Waylay13]

If people must pigeon hole everyone into positions, I would say PG too, but we basically just need a star period, but we desperately need shooting. But really if players can be versatile you just want as many as possible that can do some or all of the following things at a high level: Shoot, playmake/pass, defend, block shots - and its almost a necessity to have a high bbiq, and of course to have drive, dedication and work hard.

No one would have ever looked at Draymond Green, for example, as a C, but he plays C a ton, and he leads the team in assists, but he also has extreme length allowing him to block a ton of shots and defend multiple positions.

But considering the things I mentioned, and needing shooters/passers, is why I would put Doncic and Young at the top of the draft list. They have the high iq, can both shoot and pass. Young is a premier shooter and passer and other things.

While it would be nice to get a great big at the top, they would not have as much impact imo unless they are a premier shot blocker off the bat. I would probably put Ayton slightly over Bamba because I think he is more of a sure thing, I think Bamba could potentially have more initial impact if his defense immediately translates. I'll take his blocks and premier defense and switch ability, etc, over a C who just scores and rebounds. Though Ayton may eventually be somewhat like Embiid with perhaps a 3 pt shot.

I'll have to look more at some of the other Cs though like Jaren Jackson, especially since he is so young. Tom Izzo coached players seem to often do well in the NBA, particularly considering where they were drafted (Draymond Green, Gary Harris), so even though Jackson is rated fairly highly, he may still be under the radar a little bit, and his dad played with Duncan and Robinson...not that it means a lot, but he's obviously probably been watching and perhaps studying basketball since he was little. My guess is he will likely have great fundamentals. And of course Porter, if he checks out physically is almost a guy you can't pass up if you are there at 5 or 6 with these guys gone...or at least based on his rep you can't....but then again you never know for sure without seeing him against college competition (and then I guess you often still don't know).

McD better just do a damn good job in this draft regardless of where our picks land.

This. We should be talking about SKILLS needed, not positions. And we need playmaking, shooting, defense, in that order, the most.

We need shooting, defense, and then maybe playmaking. We so sorely lack shooters with >.500 2p% and > .400 3p%. That has to be the number one priority. It is unacceptable to have players like Ulis and Jackson get major minutes shooting .328/.290 and 378/.239 and between them taking 17 shots. That's just bad basketball. Basketball is first and foremost about scoring and players who can't shoot shouldn't be on the floor. Those two are even worse because neither are very good at defense right now. A double whammy.

Playmaking would increase our shooting percentage. Why do you think the team that leads in the NBA in assist last year was also the best shooting team?

[DirtyDez]

what?!??

That link had us taking Robert Williams at #10 when I posted it. Now that Sexton is there he's the only guy at that pick I wouldn't trade out of. Sexton is similar to Bledsoe but he's a dawg and always attacking. I'd be willing to be patient with him even though there's too many raw youngins on the roster.