Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[charley barkles]

After the loss to Cleveland

“I gave them enough time to let them run what they got to run,” Ayton said. “Now I’m about to just take over now. It’s about that time to take over and not really look back.”

“It’s just tough,” said Ayton about the losing skid. “It’s not easy to deal with. I’m going to try my best to take over. Real talk.”

“I will always answer this kind of questions and put it on the coach,” Suns first-year head coach Igor Kokoskov said. “How I can make him be more involved. Just not necessarily in regards to his offense, not necessarily his touches, but he’s a big part of our system on both sides of the court. Defensively. That’s a challenge for me as a coach to keep him more engaged. Keep him more involved. That’s strategically what we’re trying to do.”

“On the flipside, players play the game,” Kokoskov continued. “You’ve got to demand. You’ve got to show some will and some energy and demand to be involved. You can call a play, but the play doesn’t mean it’s necessarily for you. You trigger the problem and you don’t know who is going to shoot the ball. How the play is going to be executed.”

4 hours until game time, let's see if its actual REAL talk this time, or just another empty comment to add to the list of things he's said

I think that there is some disconnection between Kokoskov and Ayton.

Hopefully this brings us the best Ayton and he plays tougher on both ends.

Probably because Koko makes him stand at the top of the key looking for who to hand it off to, instead of getting in the paint and scoring pretty much automatically.

[bwgood77]

After the loss to Cleveland











4 hours until game time, let's see if its actual REAL talk this time, or just another empty comment to add to the list of things he's said

I think that there is some disconnection between Kokoskov and Ayton.

Hopefully this brings us the best Ayton and he plays tougher on both ends.

Probably because Koko makes him stand at the top of the key looking for who to hand it off to, instead of getting in the paint and scoring pretty much automatically.

That's when he is setting a screen. He's in the pain plenty. I don't think there is a disconnect..most of it is Ayton calling himself out...they talked about it in pregame and the game....commentators are hoping he walks the walk instead of keeping talk the talk.
I mean Ayton has his struggles and is passive and a lot of people here see it so Igor calls him out.

Maybe Ayton doesn't like it. Tough ****. A lot of people want Igor to call people out more for not putting in effort.

I mean Ayton already said he's a great defender. I think most know he is not. The coach has to get let him know he has a lot of work to do whether or not that makes him happy or not.

Ayton still scores more than any C in like the last 5 drafts other than Towns who scored a tad more. Only a couple other players scored more at all, Trae and Doncic being two of them, but they have the ball in their hands all games and take a lot of 3s.

Not sure how many points people expect him to score...25 as a rookie?

[Blackification]

After the loss to Cleveland

“I gave them enough time to let them run what they got to run,” Ayton said. “Now I’m about to just take over now. It’s about that time to take over and not really look back.”

“It’s just tough,” said Ayton about the losing skid. “It’s not easy to deal with. I’m going to try my best to take over. Real talk.”

“I will always answer this kind of questions and put it on the coach,” Suns first-year head coach Igor Kokoskov said. “How I can make him be more involved. Just not necessarily in regards to his offense, not necessarily his touches, but he’s a big part of our system on both sides of the court. Defensively. That’s a challenge for me as a coach to keep him more engaged. Keep him more involved. That’s strategically what we’re trying to do.”

“On the flipside, players play the game,” Kokoskov continued. “You’ve got to demand. You’ve got to show some will and some energy and demand to be involved. You can call a play, but the play doesn’t mean it’s necessarily for you. You trigger the problem and you don’t know who is going to shoot the ball. How the play is going to be executed.”

4 hours until game time, let's see if its actual REAL talk this time, or just another empty comment to add to the list of things he's said

incoming game with 8 fg attempts while collins get 20/10

pretty close i must say

[Bogyo]

SheAndre talking the talk again, and the opposing scrub C (Dedmon this time) getting career high in something (blocks) against the Suns and him. Classic.

[TheLogician]

I don't remember DA playing passive in college. His defense needed work but he was flexing every night. He seems to have adopted Igor's persona. Need a head coach who doesn't pay lip service because the players take his lead.

[bwgood77]

His passiveness has always been there. We are talking defense when we are talking passive. He was less passive last night. His defense has improved since college (but still needs a lot of work). HIs offense is the same but he's improved at moving, setting screens and finding the open man. Of course he's also facing 10x tougher defenses in the NBA than the Pac12, so when facing double teams including NBA bigs, that's a little different than the crappy competition he used to face so he may be a little less aggressive. He still rarely took over games in college though.

[Frank Lee]

Paper tiger

[lilfishi22]

I don't remember DA playing passive in college. His defense needed work but he was flexing every night. He seems to have adopted Igor's persona. Need a head coach who doesn't pay lip service because the players take his lead.

The passiveness was less apparent on the surface in college because he was playing against smaller C's and almost always had the size and athletic advantage over his defenders. It's a lot easier to flex when you're dunking on 6'8 C's in college a few times a night but it becomes a lot less frequent when going up against 6'11-7' physically mature and experienced men in the NBA.

[TheLogician]

I don't remember DA playing passive in college. His defense needed work but he was flexing every night. He seems to have adopted Igor's persona. Need a head coach who doesn't pay lip service because the players take his lead.

The passiveness was less apparent on the surface in college because he was playing against smaller C's and almost always had the size and athletic advantage over his defenders. It's a lot easier to flex when you're dunking on 6'8 C's in college a few times a night but it becomes a lot less frequent when going up against 6'11-7' physically mature and experienced men in the NBA.

He still has the size and athletic advantage. This team just sucks the life out of everyone.

[lilfishi22]

I don't remember DA playing passive in college. His defense needed work but he was flexing every night. He seems to have adopted Igor's persona. Need a head coach who doesn't pay lip service because the players take his lead.

The passiveness was less apparent on the surface in college because he was playing against smaller C's and almost always had the size and athletic advantage over his defenders. It's a lot easier to flex when you're dunking on 6'8 C's in college a few times a night but it becomes a lot less frequent when going up against 6'11-7' physically mature and experienced men in the NBA.

He still has the size and athletic advantage. This team just sucks the life out of everyone.

He doesn't and help defenders are also longer, faster and more experienced in the NBA. He's still bigger and faster than most defenders but the gap is significantly smaller than at the NCAA level.

[DRK]

I don't remember DA playing passive in college. His defense needed work but he was flexing every night. He seems to have adopted Igor's persona. Need a head coach who doesn't pay lip service because the players take his lead.

The passiveness was less apparent on the surface in college because he was playing against smaller C's and almost always had the size and athletic advantage over his defenders. It's a lot easier to flex when you're dunking on 6'8 C's in college a few times a night but it becomes a lot less frequent when going up against 6'11-7' physically mature and experienced men in the NBA.

Except even in college he was known for being too passive and settling for mid range jumpers, instead of attacking the rim with a smaller defender on him.

[GoodBehavior]

I don't remember DA playing passive in college. His defense needed work but he was flexing every night. He seems to have adopted Igor's persona. Need a head coach who doesn't pay lip service because the players take his lead.

The passiveness was less apparent on the surface in college because he was playing against smaller C's and almost always had the size and athletic advantage over his defenders. It's a lot easier to flex when you're dunking on 6'8 C's in college a few times a night but it becomes a lot less frequent when going up against 6'11-7' physically mature and experienced men in the NBA.

Except even in college he was known for being too passive and settling for mid range jumpers, instead of attacking the rim with a smaller defender on him.

I think people need to keep in mind that ayton is virtually unguardable 1x1. He's too fast for bigger centers (PNR) and too strong for smaller centers (post-up). He attracts extra attention, more so than Booker, when he has the ball. That's why his field goal attempts are low. It has less to do with being passive or Igor not designing plays for him. It has to do more with what opposing teams are doing. If you're not doubling him, he's scoring at 60% clip, that's 1.2 PPP. If you double him and give up the three ball, the suns are shooting 33%; that's 1 PPP. If you leave Jackson, Oubre, Melton, Okobo alone and double up on ayton, they're shooting at ~31% (0.9 PPP); of course you're going to double ayton and let the Jacksons of the world beat you. The choice is pretty obvious.

ayton goes on a mini run all the time, usually in the first quarter, and team just throw extra bodies at him the rest of the game. And he goes quietly the rest of the game. Then fans complained that he's not involved. Or that he's too passive...

[Saberestar]

Ayton’s usage rating in the fourth quarter this season is 17.1. In Saturday’s loss, it was at 9.5.

In contrast, Booker’s rating in the fourth is 33.6. In Saturday’s loss, it was at 41.7.

Booker is fifth in the NBA in usage rating at 30.8. Take out Tyler Davis and Zhou Qu, who have each only played one game, and Booker’s third only behind James Harden and Joel Embiid.

Ayton is 142nd in usage rating at 20.7.

While Booker handles the ball and has been called upon to make plays, the gap in usage rating between star and rookie is huge — or Ayton’s is very low depending on how one interprets the numbers.

Not only does Ayton trail Booker in usage rating, he’s also behind Josh Jackson (69th, 23.7), TJ Warren (104th, 22.1) and Oubre (122nd, 21.6). That's with Ayton averaging more minutes (31) than Oubre (28.7) and Jackson (24.1) and being second on the team in field-goal percentage at 58.9.

Ayton, who averages 16.4 points and 10.5 rebounds, doesn’t consistently demand the ball, but his usage rating suggests he’s not getting it enough

[WeekapaugGroove]

I don't remember DA playing passive in college. His defense needed work but he was flexing every night. He seems to have adopted Igor's persona. Need a head coach who doesn't pay lip service because the players take his lead.

The passiveness was less apparent on the surface in college because he was playing against smaller C's and almost always had the size and athletic advantage over his defenders. It's a lot easier to flex when you're dunking on 6'8 C's in college a few times a night but it becomes a lot less frequent when going up against 6'11-7' physically mature and experienced men in the NBA.

Except even in college he was known for being too passive and settling for mid range jumpers, instead of attacking the rim with a smaller defender on him.

I think the reason for this is he's just not comfortable putting the ball on the floor and driving to the rim. As a few of us have mentioned him developing even a little dribble drive game will go a long ways on opening up some of his offensive game.

[Saberestar]

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[Cutter]

Ayton definitely not confident in putting the ball on the floor and creating at the rim. I thought early on he had some decent handles, and i still think he can dribble pretty well for a big man, but he sure seems hesitant to put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. Likes the soft mid range jumpers a lot.

[lilfishi22]

The passiveness was less apparent on the surface in college because he was playing against smaller C's and almost always had the size and athletic advantage over his defenders. It's a lot easier to flex when you're dunking on 6'8 C's in college a few times a night but it becomes a lot less frequent when going up against 6'11-7' physically mature and experienced men in the NBA.

Except even in college he was known for being too passive and settling for mid range jumpers, instead of attacking the rim with a smaller defender on him.

I think people need to keep in mind that ayton is virtually unguardable 1x1. He's too fast for bigger centers (PNR) and too strong for smaller centers (post-up). He attracts extra attention, more so than Booker, when he has the ball. That's why his field goal attempts are low. It has less to do with being passive or Igor not designing plays for him. It has to do more with what opposing teams are doing. If you're not doubling him, he's scoring at 60% clip, that's 1.2 PPP. If you double him and give up the three ball, the suns are shooting 33%; that's 1 PPP. If you leave Jackson, Oubre, Melton, Okobo alone and double up on ayton, they're shooting at ~31% (0.9 PPP); of course you're going to double ayton and let the Jacksons of the world beat you. The choice is pretty obvious.

ayton goes on a mini run all the time, usually in the first quarter, and team just throw extra bodies at him the rest of the game. And he goes quietly the rest of the game. Then fans complained that he's not involved. Or that he's too passive...

A big part of it is that the defenders at the NBA level has considerably more size, length, athleticism and experience to deal with guys who can be limited on offense like Ayton. He's still able to get his points because his size, athleticism and skills allows him to get points in spite of that but it's really not that difficult to take him out of games right now. Not being able to put the ball on the floor or having even average shooters around him makes it a lot easier to cut off his offense. Where Ayton can proactively get his points is when he makes a concerted effort to find a post up mismatch and calls for the ball. But of course we need our other guys to get him the ball.

[GoodBehavior]

Except even in college he was known for being too passive and settling for mid range jumpers, instead of attacking the rim with a smaller defender on him.

I think people need to keep in mind that ayton is virtually unguardable 1x1. He's too fast for bigger centers (PNR) and too strong for smaller centers (post-up). He attracts extra attention, more so than Booker, when he has the ball. That's why his field goal attempts are low. It has less to do with being passive or Igor not designing plays for him. It has to do more with what opposing teams are doing. If you're not doubling him, he's scoring at 60% clip, that's 1.2 PPP. If you double him and give up the three ball, the suns are shooting 33%; that's 1 PPP. If you leave Jackson, Oubre, Melton, Okobo alone and double up on ayton, they're shooting at ~31% (0.9 PPP); of course you're going to double ayton and let the Jacksons of the world beat you. The choice is pretty obvious.

ayton goes on a mini run all the time, usually in the first quarter, and team just throw extra bodies at him the rest of the game. And he goes quietly the rest of the game. Then fans complained that he's not involved. Or that he's too passive...

A big part of it is that the defenders at the NBA level has considerably more size, length, athleticism and experience to deal with guys who can be limited on offense like Ayton. Not being able to put the ball on the floor or having even average shooters around him makes it a lot easier to cut off his offense. Where Ayton can get his points is when he makes a concerted effort to find a post up mismatch and calls for the ball. But of course we need our other guys to get him the ball.

It would be nice if he can put it on the floor or shoot from downtown, that would elevate his game even more. But his game, as it stands today, is not limited. It's quite advanced for a rookie center. His footwork in the post and his jump hook are already very good. There' are very few centers who can stay with him on the PNR. It took DAJ and Clint a couple of year to get the PNR down, I actually think ayton is fine there.

Now, that doesn't mean he's perfect. He passes out of the post too often at times, doesn't seal properly, doesn't always run hard on PNR, etc.

His game isn't elite yet as a top scorer (25+), but it's good enough to get more than 8 shot attempts. There were a stretch in both Cavs and Hawks game where ayton couldn't be stopped.

[lilfishi22]

I think people need to keep in mind that ayton is virtually unguardable 1x1. He's too fast for bigger centers (PNR) and too strong for smaller centers (post-up). He attracts extra attention, more so than Booker, when he has the ball. That's why his field goal attempts are low. It has less to do with being passive or Igor not designing plays for him. It has to do more with what opposing teams are doing. If you're not doubling him, he's scoring at 60% clip, that's 1.2 PPP. If you double him and give up the three ball, the suns are shooting 33%; that's 1 PPP. If you leave Jackson, Oubre, Melton, Okobo alone and double up on ayton, they're shooting at ~31% (0.9 PPP); of course you're going to double ayton and let the Jacksons of the world beat you. The choice is pretty obvious.

ayton goes on a mini run all the time, usually in the first quarter, and team just throw extra bodies at him the rest of the game. And he goes quietly the rest of the game. Then fans complained that he's not involved. Or that he's too passive...

A big part of it is that the defenders at the NBA level has considerably more size, length, athleticism and experience to deal with guys who can be limited on offense like Ayton. Not being able to put the ball on the floor or having even average shooters around him makes it a lot easier to cut off his offense. Where Ayton can get his points is when he makes a concerted effort to find a post up mismatch and calls for the ball. But of course we need our other guys to get him the ball.

It would be nice if he can put it on the floor or shoot from downtown, that would elevate his game even more. But his game, as it stands today, is not limited. It's quite advanced for a rookie center. His footwork in the post and his jump hook are already very good. There' are very few centers who can stay with him on the PNR. It took DAJ and Clint a couple of year to get the PNR down, I actually think ayton is fine there.

Now, that doesn't mean he's perfect. He passes out of the post too often at times, doesn't seal properly, doesn't always run hard on PNR, etc.

His game isn't elite yet as a top scorer (25+), but it's good enough to get more than 8 shot attempts. There were a stretch in both Cavs and Hawks game where ayton couldn't be stopped.

It is limited in the sense that he can be taken out the game quite easily. As you mentioned, he goes on runs but when you start giving him different looks defensively like sending the double or threaten to send the double, he becomes invisible. For a rookie C, he's quite advanced skill-wise but because he's missing that dribble drive game and a 3PT shot, he's limited to shooting the midrange shot where he gets it or on seemingly rare occasions get in a good position in the post with single coverage.

So he's not able to get better shots for himself and he's not able to make teams pay when they leave 3PT shooters to cover him or draw fouls either. He's limited in that respect. I agree he should be getting more looks

[Saberestar]

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