College basketball and 2017 draft - One more poll after last game

[MathiasPW]

Does anyone remember Shabazz Muhammad's father? Same story as picking a wife to breed baller children. Choosing impact full names to enhance their chance at being successful. Picking a college that would let his son thrive (also UCLA IIRC).

Bazz was considered a top 3 pick for most of the year. These things popped up near the draft as well, along with a storyline that his age was fake.

His draft stock plummeted! He went from top 3/maybe #1 to being selected at 14!

[Zelaznyrules]

Just a quick point on Ball and on any of the other top prospects... remember that these guys are all very YOUNG and their games are not perfect. Look at Booker. The comp was Reddick and Klay Thompson... now the comp is Kobe!?! These prospects will all get better with age and NBA experience. What is the foundation or floor that the prospect will build upon? Arguably, this draft class has the highest floor in the last 10 years. We literally can't miss in the top 5 and maybe even the top 10...

The question for me is which prospect (at our pick) will have the highest ceiling? I get that none of prospects will be an All-Star in year 1, 2 or 3... but 4-10 look out! Ball, Fultz, Smith, Tatum, Jackson all have the potential to be perennial all-stars. They all have HIGH ceilings.

Who develop the best? Who has the personality, passion, fire and work-ethic to build upon their god-given foundations? Who LOVES to play basketball? Conversely, which prospects will succumb to the money, fame, women, distractions and NOT develop their games?

On Lonzo Ball... WOW! Great talent, high floor and one of the highest ceilings. He has elite size at the 1. Great vision and facilitation. Great IQ. His shot will get better with time. Lonzo will have a Jason Kidd-like career... maybe better.

But his father really, really sucks. Like SUPER-BAD. I can't remember a meddling blow-hard parent like this... ever. The guy is just an all-around ass-hat. My biggest fear with Lonzo Ball is that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. As Lonzo matures, will he turn into his father and become an entitled, rich, blow-hard, arrogant jerk-off? I hope not.

I think you'd be surprised how many fans still think that Reddick is his comp, maybe even his ceiling. But yeah, I agree with everything you say here except for the fear of Ball following in the footsteps of his father. I think Ball rebelling against his father and adopting a lifestyle of Big Mac's and surfing is a more real concern. But I still think success is the most likely future for that kid, with or without his papa baggage.

[LV-Suns]

Does anyone remember Shabazz Muhammad's father? Same story as picking a wife to breed baller children. Choosing impact full names to enhance their chance at being successful. Picking a college that would let his son thrive (also UCLA IIRC).

Bazz was considered a top 3 pick for most of the year. These things popped up near the draft as well, along with a storyline that his age was fake.

His draft stock plummeted! He went from top 3/maybe #1 to being selected at 14!

This. He also named all his kids to what could be superstar names.

Ron Holmes is in jail in Vegas right now for multiple fraud cases

[blee732]

and then there is this..... clearly giving Jackson the edge
1= Fultz
2= Ball
3 = Jackson
4= Tatum
5 = Isaac

I dunno man, in #5 I clearly see the black blob dunking on a smaller white blob (no racial implications intended). Seems to point in Isaac's favor.

[MrMiyagi]

I can def appreciate the write up. I, however, would rather know where we will be come lottery time before investing in researching players that we may not have a shot at.

I actually think this draft is more uncertain than people think. There's a lot of talent in the top 10, with the NCAA Tournament starting tomorrow and workouts left to go. I don't think it'll become clearer to fans who is best (though we'll have more evidence to examine and pick apart), but I think scouts and GMs will start finalizing their big boards. Fultz and Smith not making the tournament will hurt a little, but I'm sure they'll be workout warriors because they need to make up ground, but they'll also might be fresher.

Basically, I think it's fine to take a look at everyone.

[bwgood77]

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If anyone can post any of the content here, that would be appreciated.

[bwgood77]

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[ATTL]

and then there is this..... clearly giving Jackson the edge
1= Fultz
2= Ball
3 = Jackson
4= Tatum
5 = Isaac

I dunno man, in #5 I clearly see the black blob dunking on a smaller white blob (no racial implications intended). Seems to point in Isaac's favor.

#5 is clearly King Robert baratheon, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm's stag helmet.

Nice write up, I concur with the suggestions and would like a "fit with the suns" section included.

[bwgood77]

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[Zelaznyrules]

Does anyone remember Shabazz Muhammad's father? Same story as picking a wife to breed baller children. Choosing impact full names to enhance their chance at being successful. Picking a college that would let his son thrive (also UCLA IIRC).

Bazz was considered a top 3 pick for most of the year. These things popped up near the draft as well, along with a storyline that his age was fake.

His draft stock plummeted! He went from top 3/maybe #1 to being selected at 14!

I think his draft stock had already dropped quite a bit prior to the age scandal but that certainly didn't help things for him. And IIRC his dad even tried to sell the reporter on the idea of becoming his agent or publicist (or something like that) in return for keeping quiet on the information about his age. He was a real piece of work. I

[Walt_Uoob]

Anyone else feeling like Ball might be more Shaun Livingston than Magic Johnson / Jason Kidd? That's my worry about him. Here's a pre-draft take on Livingston I dug up:

Strengths: Livingston's greatest strength is that he's a 6-foot-7 true point guard — combining excellent height with a playmaker's mindset to produce a player who's been compared to Magic Johnson. Livingston is really a magician with the basketball, possessing stunning court vision and superior ball-handling skills. And unlike most 6-7 guys who can play the point but are really combo guards, he's a pure point guard with a knack for making his teammates better. In time, he could develop into a taller version of Jason Kidd. Even on defense, his length will allow him to bother smaller point guards with his wingspan.

Weaknesses: Livingston may be tall for a point guard, but he's extremely skinny. And although he has reportedly gained about 15 pounds since the end of the high school season, he still needs to bulk up at least another 15-20 pounds to be able to handle the physical play in the NBA. He's also not a jump-out-of-the-gym athlete who'll blow you away with his athleticism. And though he's an excellent passer, his jump shot and scoring ability need some work.

[Zelaznyrules]

Anyone else feeling like Ball might be more Shaun Livingston than Magic Johnson / Jason Kidd? That's my worry about him. Here's a pre-draft take on Livingston I dug up:

Strengths: Livingston's greatest strength is that he's a 6-foot-7 true point guard — combining excellent height with a playmaker's mindset to produce a player who's been compared to Magic Johnson. Livingston is really a magician with the basketball, possessing stunning court vision and superior ball-handling skills. And unlike most 6-7 guys who can play the point but are really combo guards, he's a pure point guard with a knack for making his teammates better. In time, he could develop into a taller version of Jason Kidd. Even on defense, his length will allow him to bother smaller point guards with his wingspan.

Weaknesses: Livingston may be tall for a point guard, but he's extremely skinny. And although he has reportedly gained about 15 pounds since the end of the high school season, he still needs to bulk up at least another 15-20 pounds to be able to handle the physical play in the NBA. He's also not a jump-out-of-the-gym athlete who'll blow you away with his athleticism. And though he's an excellent passer, his jump shot and scoring ability need some work.

I just don't see much relevance in this comparison. There's a lot more guesswork when you're trying to predict success from a high school player as opposed to a player in a major college program. And we'll never know how good Livingston could have become. He really struggled as a straight to the pros player initially and just when he started to develop into a real weapon he absolutely shreds his knee. He was never the same athlete after that injury. And that's all without considering the change in the NBA style since his early days, it's a much more open and high paced game than it was during his early years.

[NTB]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1038084/three-reasons-lonzo-ball-should-not-be-on-suns-draft-board/

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[Frank Lee]

So.... who is doing the censoring ? somebody is pretty GD full of themselves.

[bwgood77]

and then there is this..... clearly giving Jackson the edge
1= Fultz
2= Ball
3 = Jackson
4= Tatum
5 = Isaac

I dunno man, in #5 I clearly see the black blob dunking on a smaller white blob (no racial implications intended). Seems to point in Isaac's favor.

Not sure how you see that. But if Isaac can dunk on white blobs, I'm all for it.

To Frank...no censoring...just moved some posts talking about all the prospects from the thread just talking about Fultz.

[Kerrsed]

[ATTL]

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16th ranked
He could be something depending how he progresses.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Good comparison to Shabazz, these overbearing parents can complicate seeing things that need to be done to be the best player possible. Who knows why Ball never shoots inside the arc unless it's a gimmie, maybe he got berated when he wasn't as good as Michael Jordan taking mid-range shots, so ends up passing the ball and shooting 3s.

[kennydorglas]

Yep, but at least Lonzo doesnt look like an ass in the court...
Shabazz was constantly harrassing his own teammates when something bad happened in UCLA.

[sunsbum]

This meme gives Daddy too much credit, He couldnt even play D1 College.