Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

[RaisingArizona]

Calm before the storm.

[SarcasticSun]

I don't think we make any moves this year. We're a bad enough team to where I'm not worried about the tank being ruined by not trading off Tucker. Plus I think the locker room is pretty positive right now and don't want to mess with that when we have so many young players on the team. I actually wouldn't mind re-signing Tucker, his help in developing Chriss might be worth it. The only player I would trade is Knight for obvious reasons, but not if we have to sacrifice assets to get rid of him.

Ideally, we finally get some luck, win the lotto this offseason and draft Fultz, maybe trade Bledsoe, and then our guards are set for the next 10 years (assuming fultz lives up to the hype obviously). Plus under this scenario we likely still get another top ten pick in 2018, and we have the Miami picks to come. I like where we are asset wise, it is more about player development at this point.

[SarcasticSun]

Also I'm not sure we want the reputation of having a trade every year at the deadline. We've shaken it up in the last two deadlines, might be time to sit one out.

[carey]

Also I'm not sure we want the reputation of having a trade every year at the deadline. We've shaken it up in the last two deadlines, might be time to sit one out.

Trading Markieff wasn't much of a shakeup. I also think other teams understand this is how you function during a rebuild.

[SideSwipe]

Also I'm not sure we want the reputation of having a trade every year at the deadline. We've shaken it up in the last two deadlines, might be time to sit one out.

While I understand the sentiment, the time to sit one out is when things are working well or at least showing signs of improvement. If I'm McD, I would not hesitate to shake things up to change the paradigm (that can take different forms). I say that only because superficially I don't see a great strategy, but disinformation may be affecting that perception. Once you get the talent on board that you need and you hit the lower half of playoff teams a good argument can be made for staying the course to grow together and continue development of chemistry over years.

[bwgood77]

If the Pacers might lose George for nothing, perhaps we could throw a ton of value at the Pacers for Turner? Pacers could build a solid team pretty quick if they were willing to give him up.

He's a pretty nice piece they have for what, the next 7 years? Why would they give him up?

[Frank Lee]

Teams improve in a couple of ways....

either they acquire better players than the ones they have, or the ones they have become better players... best case scenario is a combination of both. McD hasn't exactly been strong at acquiring better players outside the draft, and in todays climate, the draft generally does not yield better players NOW.... We have seen a lot of talent leave this team, with little to nothing replacing it. Extra draft picks are very nice to have, but have delay value factor.... unless those picks are used to acquire better players.

Id hate to think we lost out on Boogie (or will lose on other similar studs) because of the insistence of peddling off Knight, or the reluctance to give an extra pick. To me, those Miami picks mean nothing but an avenue to obtain a better player. I'd easily send one off with the contingency of selecting the better (or worse) of ours and it. Being an over shrewd trader can cost you the opportunity to acquire a difference making player. Now IS the time to overpay as the benefits to this franchise and the fan base, not to mention the good players we have slugging it out Loss after Loss cannot be measured.

Re-establish a winning culture, playoff seeding be damned.... or hanging on to a shot at a potentially good 18-19 year old two years down the road. Which way do we go? Im not on the pie in the sky train. We need REAL talent NOW. Bled is peaking and Book is really ready to break out. DONT WASTE IT McD.

[LukasBMW]

I don't think we make any moves this year. We're a bad enough team to where I'm not worried about the tank being ruined by not trading off Tucker. Plus I think the locker room is pretty positive right now and don't want to mess with that when we have so many young players on the team. I actually wouldn't mind re-signing Tucker, his help in developing Chriss might be worth it. The only player I would trade is Knight for obvious reasons, but not if we have to sacrifice assets to get rid of him.

Ideally, we finally get some luck, win the lotto this offseason and draft Fultz, maybe trade Bledsoe, and then our guards are set for the next 10 years (assuming fultz lives up to the hype obviously). Plus under this scenario we likely still get another top ten pick in 2018, and we have the Miami picks to come. I like where we are asset wise, it is more about player development at this point.

+1

I've never seen a team with our record still display the emotion and positive attitude that all of our guys seem to have.

Gotta give props to Watson and our vets for that.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Teams improve in a couple of ways....

either they acquire better players than the ones they have, or the ones they have become better players... best case scenario is a combination of both. McD hasn't exactly been strong at acquiring better players outside the draft, and in todays climate, the draft generally does not yield better players NOW.... We have seen a lot of talent leave this team, with little to nothing replacing it. Extra draft picks are very nice to have, but have delay value factor.... unless those picks are used to acquire better players.

Id hate to think we lost out on Boogie (or will lose on other similar studs) because of the insistence of peddling off Knight, or the reluctance to give an extra pick. To me, those Miami picks mean nothing but an avenue to obtain a better player. I'd easily send one off with the contingency of selecting the better (or worse) of ours and it. Being an over shrewd trader can cost you the opportunity to acquire a difference making player. Now IS the time to overpay as the benefits to this franchise and the fan base, not to mention the good players we have slugging it out Loss after Loss cannot be measured.

Re-establish a winning culture, playoff seeding be damned.... or hanging on to a shot at a potentially good 18-19 year old two years down the road. Which way do we go? Im not on the pie in the sky train. We need REAL talent NOW. Bled is peaking and Book is really ready to break out. DONT WASTE IT McD.

Isn't it all circumstantial though? Frank specifically with Cousins and George would you have traded a big package with the risk they leave in 2018? Because that is a factor. Butler is a different story so I get if people are clamoring for him.


I think we just have two camps. The trade for a vet and the keep young groups. Neither are necessarily right. I think I'm going to create a poll and see what more people think.

[jcsunsfan]

I don't think we make any moves this year. We're a bad enough team to where I'm not worried about the tank being ruined by not trading off Tucker. Plus I think the locker room is pretty positive right now and don't want to mess with that when we have so many young players on the team. I actually wouldn't mind re-signing Tucker, his help in developing Chriss might be worth it. The only player I would trade is Knight for obvious reasons, but not if we have to sacrifice assets to get rid of him.

Ideally, we finally get some luck, win the lotto this offseason and draft Fultz, maybe trade Bledsoe, and then our guards are set for the next 10 years (assuming fultz lives up to the hype obviously). Plus under this scenario we likely still get another top ten pick in 2018, and we have the Miami picks to come. I like where we are asset wise, it is more about player development at this point.

Trading Tucker makes so much sense with or without the tank. I cannot believe we are resigning him this summer. But even if we are, we could still trade him. While a first rounder would be great, even a second rounder would be something. It a big game of chicken going on right now, to see who will give in first.

That's really a small trade though. I do not expect something big.

[BobbieL]

Teams improve in a couple of ways....

either they acquire better players than the ones they have, or the ones they have become better players... best case scenario is a combination of both. McD hasn't exactly been strong at acquiring better players outside the draft, and in todays climate, the draft generally does not yield better players NOW.... We have seen a lot of talent leave this team, with little to nothing replacing it. Extra draft picks are very nice to have, but have delay value factor.... unless those picks are used to acquire better players.

Id hate to think we lost out on Boogie (or will lose on other similar studs) because of the insistence of peddling off Knight, or the reluctance to give an extra pick. To me, those Miami picks mean nothing but an avenue to obtain a better player. I'd easily send one off with the contingency of selecting the better (or worse) of ours and it. Being an over shrewd trader can cost you the opportunity to acquire a difference making player. Now IS the time to overpay as the benefits to this franchise and the fan base, not to mention the good players we have slugging it out Loss after Loss cannot be measured.

Re-establish a winning culture, playoff seeding be damned.... or hanging on to a shot at a potentially good 18-19 year old two years down the road. Which way do we go? Im not on the pie in the sky train. We need REAL talent NOW. Bled is peaking and Book is really ready to break out. DONT WASTE IT McD.

Look at the Warriors - how they were built.
Drafted Curry
Drafted Klay
Had Monte and used him for Bogut
Drafted Barnes and Green, I believe the same year
Signed Iggy because Utah was blowing it up so they took Rush and I think Biedrins and Utah got picks but GSW got cap space to take on Iggy

I know OKC did it with Durant, RW and Harden. But, the nucleus is there for the Suns - now its time to go get that player. Now maybe Bogut wasn't the guy - but they used an asset to get him. And they used another teams willingness to dump Iggy to get

So, to me - not doing anything and pushing back the playoffs to probably 2019 - no, its time. Start winning. Don't do something stupid but its time to start getting better. And like was said, draft picks are just used as a tool

Knight to me - if Orlando is serious, and can get that late 1st round pick, an asset to use
PJ - the Wiz trade kind of pushed that off but maybe you can deal with the Hawks, Raptors or SPurs and get a pick or from the Spurs, young talent
I know I have been pushing Festus - but I read the Blazers wanted to dump that contract - take on the salary and get the Cavs pick
Now, all of the sudden, for not many LONG-TERM assets - you have acquired more picks to help sweeten the offers for a guy like Butler. Or, given yourself even late first round picks to have somebody to draft - cheap player for your bench.

[jcsunsfan]

OK. Let me completely contradict myself. Paul George is threatening every team considering trading for him to not bother because he is going to the Lakers in 18 months (per Gambo). I expect that means that Indy is going to lose him for nothing, so his value is really low right now. Would you:

Knight, Tucker, Miami 1st for Paul George

understanding not only there are no guarantees to extend, he is threatening to walk in 18 months.

[Stix]

OK. Let me completely contradict myself. Paul George is threatening every team considering trading for him to not bother because he is going to the Lakers in 18 months (per Gambo). I expect that means that Indy is going to lose him for nothing, so his value is really low right now. Would you:

Knight, Tucker, Miami 1st for Paul George

understanding not only there are no guarantees to extend, he is threatening to walk in 18 months.

For an 18 month rental? No way... PG won't move the needle that much. Forget about him, doubt McD is interested anyway. He's probably looking for youthful talent and picks.

[bigfoot]

This sums it up in a nutshell ... http://arizonasports.com/story/1031793/1031793/

I don't agree with some of it and since Doug Franz wrote it that doesn't surprise me. Back when I used to listen to talk radio I always thought that guy was a tool.

I would trade Tucker for a 2nd rounder if that was all that was available. This whole "him guarding Booker in practice" stuff is a little silly. There's less than two months left in the season and teams don't even practice that much or hard at this point in the year so I think Booker will be just fine without PJ around. The whole notion that 2nd rounders are worthless is a losers mentality. Have some faith in your scouts that they can find the next Jokic or Green or hell even the next Jordan Clarkson. I get that a high percentage of these guys never hit but the more swings you take the better chance you have.

Chandler I'm not as sold on trading but I do find it funny that he contradicts himself by saying don't trade chandler but then list finding minutes for Len as a priority. Easiest way to do that would be TRADING CHANDLER.

You have to look at the situation. If we were a team of vets then sure adding an extra second rounder would make sense. As it sits we are a very young team and will be getting younger next year when we add our two picks this summer. Honestly, we need to keep responsible vets around these young players to teach them the right way. Chandler, Dudley, Tucker, Barbosa are all good vets that are helping our young guys. Moving them for a long shot second round pick is just plain crazy.

[jcsunsfan]

OK. Let me completely contradict myself. Paul George is threatening every team considering trading for him to not bother because he is going to the Lakers in 18 months (per Gambo). I expect that means that Indy is going to lose him for nothing, so his value is really low right now. Would you:

Knight, Tucker, Miami 1st for Paul George

understanding not only there are no guarantees to extend, he is threatening to walk in 18 months.

For an 18 month rental? No way... PG won't move the needle that much. Forget about him, doubt McD is interested anyway. He's probably looking for youthful talent and picks.

For an 18 month rental and the inside track on changing his mind before he becomes a FA.

I might not do it because he moves the needle too much and messes up our opportunity for a top 3 pick this summer.

[blank_38]

OK. Let me completely contradict myself. Paul George is threatening every team considering trading for him to not bother because he is going to the Lakers in 18 months (per Gambo). I expect that means that Indy is going to lose him for nothing, so his value is really low right now. Would you:

Knight, Tucker, Miami 1st for Paul George

understanding not only there are no guarantees to extend, he is threatening to walk in 18 months.

For an 18 month rental? No way... PG won't move the needle that much. Forget about him, doubt McD is interested anyway. He's probably looking for youthful talent and picks.

An All-Star/fringe All-NBA player won't move the needle? What does then?

[WeekapaugGroove]

This sums it up in a nutshell ... http://arizonasports.com/story/1031793/1031793/

I don't agree with some of it and since Doug Franz wrote it that doesn't surprise me. Back when I used to listen to talk radio I always thought that guy was a tool.

I would trade Tucker for a 2nd rounder if that was all that was available. This whole "him guarding Booker in practice" stuff is a little silly. There's less than two months left in the season and teams don't even practice that much or hard at this point in the year so I think Booker will be just fine without PJ around. The whole notion that 2nd rounders are worthless is a losers mentality. Have some faith in your scouts that they can find the next Jokic or Green or hell even the next Jordan Clarkson. I get that a high percentage of these guys never hit but the more swings you take the better chance you have.

Chandler I'm not as sold on trading but I do find it funny that he contradicts himself by saying don't trade chandler but then list finding minutes for Len as a priority. Easiest way to do that would be TRADING CHANDLER.

You have to look at the situation. If we were a team of vets then sure adding an extra second rounder would make sense. As it sits we are a very young team and will be getting younger next year when we add our two picks this summer. Honestly, we need to keep responsible vets around these young players to teach them the right way. Chandler, Dudley, Tucker, Barbosa are all good vets that are helping our young guys. Moving them for a long shot second round pick is just plain crazy.

I'm not suggesting you trade all the vets away but seriously how many do they need. Dealing Tucker wouldn't be some huge blow. Plus he's a free agent next year and honestly with Dudley who plays basically the same position as Tucker already making 10+ Mil to be that vet leader they really shouldn't be shelling out big money this summer to bring him back for multiple years. I get that at some point you can have too many young guys but they can alleviate that by taking a couple second rounders that are years out in exchange for PJ or even if they take a pick next year just use it on the best Euro stash guy available with that pick and that way he's not taking up a roster spot. It's just my general philosophy that when dealing with low percentage assets get as many as possible to improve the percentage that someone hits.

[JJ13]

OK. Let me completely contradict myself. Paul George is threatening every team considering trading for him to not bother because he is going to the Lakers in 18 months (per Gambo). I expect that means that Indy is going to lose him for nothing, so his value is really low right now. Would you:

Knight, Tucker, Miami 1st for Paul George

understanding not only there are no guarantees to extend, he is threatening to walk in 18 months.

For an 18 month rental? No way... PG won't move the needle that much. Forget about him, doubt McD is interested anyway. He's probably looking for youthful talent and picks.

An All-Star/fringe All-NBA player won't move the needle? What does then?

Makes PHX a hell of a destination in Summer 2017 for free agents...bled, booker, PG13

[harshey1388]

OK. Let me completely contradict myself. Paul George is threatening every team considering trading for him to not bother because he is going to the Lakers in 18 months (per Gambo). I expect that means that Indy is going to lose him for nothing, so his value is really low right now. Would you:

Knight, Tucker, Miami 1st for Paul George

understanding not only there are no guarantees to extend, he is threatening to walk in 18 months.

For a one year rental? Hell yeah I do this trade, who knows maybe he'd like to stay? I like Tucker but have him or lose him, it really doesn't matter. Use our '17 pick for BPA. Roll all of next season with a lineup of:

Bled/Ulis/'17 pick
Book/'17 pick
PG/Warren
Chriss/Bender
Tyson/Len

IMO 1 year gamble with PG is worth more than a gamble on what the Miami pick will be and who the draft pick MIGHT become.

[BobbieL]

OK. Let me completely contradict myself. Paul George is threatening every team considering trading for him to not bother because he is going to the Lakers in 18 months (per Gambo). I expect that means that Indy is going to lose him for nothing, so his value is really low right now. Would you:

Knight, Tucker, Miami 1st for Paul George

understanding not only there are no guarantees to extend, he is threatening to walk in 18 months.

For an 18 month rental? No way... PG won't move the needle that much. Forget about him, doubt McD is interested anyway. He's probably looking for youthful talent and picks.

For an 18 month rental and the inside track on changing his mind before he becomes a FA.

I might not do it because he moves the needle too much and messes up our opportunity for a top 3 pick this summer.

If that's all it cost was Knight, Tucker, and Miamis 1st - for sure I would do it. Heck if the Pacers wanted Warren and the Suns could move Knight for an expiring Jeff Greene and do that - bring it on

Paul George is top talent in the NBA. He would move the needle a lot. As for the rest of this year, "his ankle got an owwie" so he will be disabled the rest of the season Paul George would change the dynamic and he would be able to see in 18 months where the Suns sit compared to the Lakers.