Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[BobbieL]

Also, pending our draft selections (say we take Ayton and somebody like Robert Williams or another big slips and we take them with the Heat pick) and Cousins's health (and NO offering the super max) Gordon is the guy for our offseason imo. He fits the team. He fits the style of play. He fits the age grouping. He is super versatile and a great athlete with athletic upside and skills that he can still improve on. He went to school at Arizona so knows the state and has fans here, and probably would like to get closer to home. He is also capped out at the mini max and Orlando's GM making him available for trade clearly signals that either they aren't prepared to give him the money he wants or else they just prefer Isaac and see him as a 4 going forward. Either way, he is the best fit of the next group outside of the superstars (Lebron, George, Cousins). That said, I still think it is probably a better idea to save some of that cap space to ensure we can offer a super max the following offseason, because our pick this year, Booker, Jackson, Warren, and Bender, and our stash of future picks should be a good selling point to any star that offseason that we will be good going forward.

Parker also might be worthwhile but I am not sold on him quite yet. Same for Capela depending on money.

This lineup is super athletic and versatile going forward, though TJ obviously has to fit somewhere or transition to 6th man.:

Payton
Booker
Jackson
Gordon
Bender

Adding Young, Doncic, or Ayton to it still works due to the versatility of the others like Jackson and Bender.

If we bring Payton and Gordon in, and draft Ayton, are we very different from the current Magic team that has been struggling with the Payton/Gordon/Vucevic lineup for years?

I have thought about that. But Gordon and Payton in Phoenix should be a helluva lot better players than Gordon and Payton in Orlando. Both were young players needing to grow and mature.

I am willing to go many ways with this offseason - I just don't want a repeat of 2010 signing guys for longer term deals than necessary. Overpay for one year to keep cap flexibility

Everybody brings up the WArriors as a comp. They had a bad three years with Curry before they made the play offs in 12/13. So the Suns are really in year 2 of the rebuild. So this offseason - need to have one more good draft and find a veteran to slide. And next summer 2019- -go get a big time player. But have to make the play offs next year to start ramping up. That's why I brought up the two guys from Charlotte - veterans on decent deals for the short term - both expire in 2020 with Knight. 13 to 14m per year as back up alternatives as my guess is Charlotte gives either away for pretty cheap (like Ulis, Daniels and the Bucks pick should do it. Gordon in an S&T probably costs Chriss, Heat Pick, Buck Pick and Ulis

[MathiasPW]

Also, pending our draft selections (say we take Ayton and somebody like Robert Williams or another big slips and we take them with the Heat pick) and Cousins's health (and NO offering the super max) Gordon is the guy for our offseason imo. He fits the team. He fits the style of play. He fits the age grouping. He is super versatile and a great athlete with athletic upside and skills that he can still improve on. He went to school at Arizona so knows the state and has fans here, and probably would like to get closer to home. He is also capped out at the mini max and Orlando's GM making him available for trade clearly signals that either they aren't prepared to give him the money he wants or else they just prefer Isaac and see him as a 4 going forward. Either way, he is the best fit of the next group outside of the superstars (Lebron, George, Cousins). That said, I still think it is probably a better idea to save some of that cap space to ensure we can offer a super max the following offseason, because our pick this year, Booker, Jackson, Warren, and Bender, and our stash of future picks should be a good selling point to any star that offseason that we will be good going forward.

Parker also might be worthwhile but I am not sold on him quite yet. Same for Capela depending on money.

This lineup is super athletic and versatile going forward, though TJ obviously has to fit somewhere or transition to 6th man.:

Payton
Booker
Jackson
Gordon
Bender

Adding Young, Doncic, or Ayton to it still works due to the versatility of the others like Jackson and Bender.

If we bring Payton and Gordon in, and draft Ayton, are we very different from the current Magic team that has been struggling with the Payton/Gordon/Vucevic lineup for years?

I have thought about that. But Gordon and Payton in Phoenix should be a helluva lot better players than Gordon and Payton in Orlando. Both were young players needing to grow and mature.

Payton/Gordon/Vucevic 3-Man Combination THIS SEASON was pretty atrocious. Net negative on shooting, scoring, passing, rebounding, defending...only positive impact was on steals. This holds true if you exclude Vucevic from the lineup, as well.

So you would have to hope they still have some growing up to do from this year to the next. I am not sold.

[bwgood77]

Also, pending our draft selections (say we take Ayton and somebody like Robert Williams or another big slips and we take them with the Heat pick) and Cousins's health (and NO offering the super max) Gordon is the guy for our offseason imo. He fits the team. He fits the style of play. He fits the age grouping. He is super versatile and a great athlete with athletic upside and skills that he can still improve on. He went to school at Arizona so knows the state and has fans here, and probably would like to get closer to home. He is also capped out at the mini max and Orlando's GM making him available for trade clearly signals that either they aren't prepared to give him the money he wants or else they just prefer Isaac and see him as a 4 going forward. Either way, he is the best fit of the next group outside of the superstars (Lebron, George, Cousins). That said, I still think it is probably a better idea to save some of that cap space to ensure we can offer a super max the following offseason, because our pick this year, Booker, Jackson, Warren, and Bender, and our stash of future picks should be a good selling point to any star that offseason that we will be good going forward.

Parker also might be worthwhile but I am not sold on him quite yet. Same for Capela depending on money.

This lineup is super athletic and versatile going forward, though TJ obviously has to fit somewhere or transition to 6th man.:

Payton
Booker
Jackson
Gordon
Bender

Adding Young, Doncic, or Ayton to it still works due to the versatility of the others like Jackson and Bender.

If we bring Payton and Gordon in, and draft Ayton, are we very different from the current Magic team that has been struggling with the Payton/Gordon/Vucevic lineup for years?

I was thinking that last night after reading this, that Ayton seems a lot like Vucevic...great scoring/rebounding big man without much defense.

[Waylay13]

You guys realize that we will be over the cap this summer and have only the MLE to spend, right?

Len is renounced - 8m

Payton signs for less than 9.8m - savings; QO is only 4.6m -my guess, between 7-8 me so lets call that 2m in savings. If he leaves altogether, that's 9.8m

if the Heat pick is traded - another 2m

tyler ulis -1.5m, not guaranteed

depending on who you draft =- you can trade Chriss or Bender possibly

I can come up with 15 t 17m in a sign and trade. all the while not stretching Knight too early and not using Chandler, Dudley, Sauce or Daniels unless Paul George wants to come to town. I want to hold those four expiring contracts for the summer of 2019 if the team can. The Suns, SHOULD be able to get a solid play for 15 to 17 in this market. And if nobody wants Chriss or Bender, well there are still other assets - the Bucks pick to trade with the Heat pick. My guess, if the Suns sign Gordon to an offer sheet - a sign and trade might look good to the Magic to get assets like Chriss, the Heat pick, the Bucks pick .

I think the Suns can be smart with their money but still go get a player that will help them. I look at a team like the Hornet -- if all else fails - would a player like Marvin Williams be a good two year stop gap, Michael Kidd Gilchrist - as either one of those deals could probably be had pretty cheap -- meaning Tyler Ulis and the Bucks pick and the Suns absorb the contract. Just a veteran to help the team while still maintaining cap flexibility for summer of 2019

You do understand that Booker is likely going to request his next contract this summer for his own security and it will be likely be 26+ million per year. In other words if you go out and spend what you think you can for someone like Gordon we are going to be way over the cap even with Chandler and Knight come off the books. This doesn't even count resigning Bender, Chriss and Jackson.

[BobbieL]

You guys realize that we will be over the cap this summer and have only the MLE to spend, right?

Len is renounced - 8m

Payton signs for less than 9.8m - savings; QO is only 4.6m -my guess, between 7-8 me so lets call that 2m in savings. If he leaves altogether, that's 9.8m

if the Heat pick is traded - another 2m

tyler ulis -1.5m, not guaranteed

depending on who you draft =- you can trade Chriss or Bender possibly

I can come up with 15 t 17m in a sign and trade. all the while not stretching Knight too early and not using Chandler, Dudley, Sauce or Daniels unless Paul George wants to come to town. I want to hold those four expiring contracts for the summer of 2019 if the team can. The Suns, SHOULD be able to get a solid play for 15 to 17 in this market. And if nobody wants Chriss or Bender, well there are still other assets - the Bucks pick to trade with the Heat pick. My guess, if the Suns sign Gordon to an offer sheet - a sign and trade might look good to the Magic to get assets like Chriss, the Heat pick, the Bucks pick .

I think the Suns can be smart with their money but still go get a player that will help them. I look at a team like the Hornet -- if all else fails - would a player like Marvin Williams be a good two year stop gap, Michael Kidd Gilchrist - as either one of those deals could probably be had pretty cheap -- meaning Tyler Ulis and the Bucks pick and the Suns absorb the contract. Just a veteran to help the team while still maintaining cap flexibility for summer of 2019

You do understand that Booker is likely going to request his next contract this summer for his own security and it will be likely be 26+ million per year. In other words if you go out and spend what you think you can for someone like Gordon we are going to be way over the cap even with Chandler and Knight come off the books. This doesn't even count resigning Bender, Chriss and Jackson.

I thought somebody came up with a way for Booker to not hit until 2019 so that all things are done in the proper order. Suns have 30+ off the books in 2019: Chandler, Sauce, Daniels and Dudley.

[Waylay13]

Len is renounced - 8m

Payton signs for less than 9.8m - savings; QO is only 4.6m -my guess, between 7-8 me so lets call that 2m in savings. If he leaves altogether, that's 9.8m

if the Heat pick is traded - another 2m

tyler ulis -1.5m, not guaranteed

depending on who you draft =- you can trade Chriss or Bender possibly

I can come up with 15 t 17m in a sign and trade. all the while not stretching Knight too early and not using Chandler, Dudley, Sauce or Daniels unless Paul George wants to come to town. I want to hold those four expiring contracts for the summer of 2019 if the team can. The Suns, SHOULD be able to get a solid play for 15 to 17 in this market. And if nobody wants Chriss or Bender, well there are still other assets - the Bucks pick to trade with the Heat pick. My guess, if the Suns sign Gordon to an offer sheet - a sign and trade might look good to the Magic to get assets like Chriss, the Heat pick, the Bucks pick .

I think the Suns can be smart with their money but still go get a player that will help them. I look at a team like the Hornet -- if all else fails - would a player like Marvin Williams be a good two year stop gap, Michael Kidd Gilchrist - as either one of those deals could probably be had pretty cheap -- meaning Tyler Ulis and the Bucks pick and the Suns absorb the contract. Just a veteran to help the team while still maintaining cap flexibility for summer of 2019

You do understand that Booker is likely going to request his next contract this summer for his own security and it will be likely be 26+ million per year. In other words if you go out and spend what you think you can for someone like Gordon we are going to be way over the cap even with Chandler and Knight come off the books. This doesn't even count resigning Bender, Chriss and Jackson.

I thought somebody came up with a way for Booker to not hit until 2019 so that all things are done in the proper order. Suns have 30+ off the books in 2019: Chandler, Sauce, Daniels and Dudley.

If he will wait to get a new contract it is possible that we might be able to but if you knew you were only one injury from being unable to pay your house payment (remember he brought a 3.5 million house in the valley and his tax rate is around 40%+. so his rookie salary isnt going to pay off the house) would you let it wait? I would love for us to be able to do something but I am scared that even then it is going to be a big crunch on our cap numbers.

[bwgood77]

You guys realize that we will be over the cap this summer and have only the MLE to spend, right?

Len is renounced - 8m

Payton signs for less than 9.8m - savings; QO is only 4.6m -my guess, between 7-8 me so lets call that 2m in savings. If he leaves altogether, that's 9.8m

if the Heat pick is traded - another 2m

tyler ulis -1.5m, not guaranteed

depending on who you draft =- you can trade Chriss or Bender possibly

I can come up with 15 t 17m in a sign and trade. all the while not stretching Knight too early and not using Chandler, Dudley, Sauce or Daniels unless Paul George wants to come to town. I want to hold those four expiring contracts for the summer of 2019 if the team can. The Suns, SHOULD be able to get a solid play for 15 to 17 in this market. And if nobody wants Chriss or Bender, well there are still other assets - the Bucks pick to trade with the Heat pick. My guess, if the Suns sign Gordon to an offer sheet - a sign and trade might look good to the Magic to get assets like Chriss, the Heat pick, the Bucks pick .

I think the Suns can be smart with their money but still go get a player that will help them. I look at a team like the Hornet -- if all else fails - would a player like Marvin Williams be a good two year stop gap, Michael Kidd Gilchrist - as either one of those deals could probably be had pretty cheap -- meaning Tyler Ulis and the Bucks pick and the Suns absorb the contract. Just a veteran to help the team while still maintaining cap flexibility for summer of 2019

Len being renounced only puts us a couple million under assuming we keep our draft picks (4 &14). Then if we renounce Peters it gets us to like $3.7 in cap space. Then if we don't pick up guarantees on Williams, Ulis and Reed, that gives us another $8.5 or so, which puts us at a little over $12 million in space.

Then if we sign Payton for $8 million which is a couple of million less than his cap hold, that could get us up to $14 million.

The only way we really end up with anywhere close to like $20+ million in cap room is if we don't pick up any guarantees (Williams, Reed, Ulis), renounce everyone (Payton, Peters, Len).

OR trade our draft picks...particularly our own first, which I doubt we do.

I'm guessing we keep Williams, Ulis and Reed, which leaves us around $13-$14 million to sign free agents, including Payton. If we keep Payton, it doesn't seem like we'll have much.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Unless ulis shows something these last 25 games I wouldn't even consider bringing him back. Just a waste of a roster spot IMO.

I actually think sause is going to have to show them something when he returns. With the current market they could cut him and then maybe try to bring him back at a lower number. They way I see it is they will acquire a starting C in some way this summer and if Chandler's contract isn't used in a trade they probably roll with him and one other cheap 3rd C as the backups. Combine that with Bender probably playing some 5 and I'm not sure I see a place for Williams that would justify paying him $5M per year.

[BobbieL]

You guys realize that we will be over the cap this summer and have only the MLE to spend, right?

Len is renounced - 8m

Payton signs for less than 9.8m - savings; QO is only 4.6m -my guess, between 7-8 me so lets call that 2m in savings. If he leaves altogether, that's 9.8m

if the Heat pick is traded - another 2m

tyler ulis -1.5m, not guaranteed

depending on who you draft =- you can trade Chriss or Bender possibly

I can come up with 15 t 17m in a sign and trade. all the while not stretching Knight too early and not using Chandler, Dudley, Sauce or Daniels unless Paul George wants to come to town. I want to hold those four expiring contracts for the summer of 2019 if the team can. The Suns, SHOULD be able to get a solid play for 15 to 17 in this market. And if nobody wants Chriss or Bender, well there are still other assets - the Bucks pick to trade with the Heat pick. My guess, if the Suns sign Gordon to an offer sheet - a sign and trade might look good to the Magic to get assets like Chriss, the Heat pick, the Bucks pick .

I think the Suns can be smart with their money but still go get a player that will help them. I look at a team like the Hornet -- if all else fails - would a player like Marvin Williams be a good two year stop gap, Michael Kidd Gilchrist - as either one of those deals could probably be had pretty cheap -- meaning Tyler Ulis and the Bucks pick and the Suns absorb the contract. Just a veteran to help the team while still maintaining cap flexibility for summer of 2019

Len being renounced only puts us a couple million under assuming we keep our draft picks (4 &14). Then if we renounce Peters it gets us to like $3.7 in cap space. Then if we don't pick up guarantees on Williams, Ulis and Reed, that gives us another $8.5 or so, which puts us at a little over $12 million in space.

Then if we sign Payton for $8 million which is a couple of million less than his cap hold, that could get us up to $14 million.

The only way we really end up with anywhere close to like $20+ million in cap room is if we don't pick up any guarantees (Williams, Reed, Ulis), renounce everyone (Payton, Peters, Len).

OR trade our draft picks...particularly our own first, which I doubt we do.

I'm guessing we keep Williams, Ulis and Reed, which leaves us around $13-$14 million to sign free agents, including Payton. If we keep Payton, it doesn't seem like we'll have much.

I see what you are saying. In my scenarios I was moving the Heat pick, Ulis in a potential sign with Chriss - so that is closer to 14m without having to move Williams or Reed.

As I have stated - I think it would be prudent to hold that Williams contract one more year, even Reed. I am fine moving Ulis this offseason if they sign Payton and Knight shows anything.

[AtheJ415]

Also, pending our draft selections (say we take Ayton and somebody like Robert Williams or another big slips and we take them with the Heat pick) and Cousins's health (and NO offering the super max) Gordon is the guy for our offseason imo. He fits the team. He fits the style of play. He fits the age grouping. He is super versatile and a great athlete with athletic upside and skills that he can still improve on. He went to school at Arizona so knows the state and has fans here, and probably would like to get closer to home. He is also capped out at the mini max and Orlando's GM making him available for trade clearly signals that either they aren't prepared to give him the money he wants or else they just prefer Isaac and see him as a 4 going forward. Either way, he is the best fit of the next group outside of the superstars (Lebron, George, Cousins). That said, I still think it is probably a better idea to save some of that cap space to ensure we can offer a super max the following offseason, because our pick this year, Booker, Jackson, Warren, and Bender, and our stash of future picks should be a good selling point to any star that offseason that we will be good going forward.

Parker also might be worthwhile but I am not sold on him quite yet. Same for Capela depending on money.

This lineup is super athletic and versatile going forward, though TJ obviously has to fit somewhere or transition to 6th man.:

Payton
Booker
Jackson
Gordon
Bender

Adding Young, Doncic, or Ayton to it still works due to the versatility of the others like Jackson and Bender.

If we bring Payton and Gordon in, and draft Ayton, are we very different from the current Magic team that has been struggling with the Payton/Gordon/Vucevic lineup for years?

I was thinking that last night after reading this, that Ayton seems a lot like Vucevic...great scoring/rebounding big man without much defense.

I think we would be different mostly because we have Booker and Jackson. I respect Fournier, but let's be real here, the upside of both is much different from the Magic wings. Also, while Ayton's playing style may be similar to Vucevic, they aren't actually similar players. There is a mammoth athletic gap between them, particularly in quickness, which brings some more gravity to the defense. Vucevic is a very good offensive player but I don't think he is necessarily difficult schematically to defend. Len frequently dominates Vucevic due to agility. Ayton is a freak of nature more in line with Embiid or maybe even Hakeem than somebody like Vucevic.

[AtheJ415]

All of that said, I am okay not going with Gordon in the event Ayton is drafted. I am comfortable with Bender and Chriss. I just don't know who, this offseason, we could reasonably use our cap space for aside from them. I suppose at that point i'd prefer punting to next offseason, explaining to Booker why we are punting, and try to max out one of the many worthwhile guys next year.

[AtheJ415]

I don't think we should cut Reed, or Ulis for that matter. He may not be great but he's the best player's best friend and is good enough to be on an NBA roster while making very little. I would cut Sauce before either because he actually has a meaningful salary.

Either way, it won't matter because we aren't going to cut those guys until we know we need the space (until an FA target says yes). Otherwise, all will probably be back.

[LukasBMW]

Interesting:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/248955/RJ-Barrett-Cameron-Reddish-Zion-Williamson-In-Top-3-Of-ESPNs-2019-Mock-Draft

If the 2019 draft is projected to be weak, then it sure makes sense to tank this year, use the Miami pick this year, and then possibly use our 2019 pick as a trade piece.

-Draft two studs in 2018
-Make trade for star by offering 2019 1st, Bucks pick, lesser of Heat/Suns 2021 pick, and Chandler/Dudley expiring
-Make run at top free agent (let Len walk, resign Elfrid cheap)

[Qwigglez]

You guys realize that we will be over the cap this summer and have only the MLE to spend, right?

Len is renounced - 8m

Payton signs for less than 9.8m - savings; QO is only 4.6m -my guess, between 7-8 me so lets call that 2m in savings. If he leaves altogether, that's 9.8m

if the Heat pick is traded - another 2m

tyler ulis -1.5m, not guaranteed

depending on who you draft =- you can trade Chriss or Bender possibly

I can come up with 15 t 17m in a sign and trade. all the while not stretching Knight too early and not using Chandler, Dudley, Sauce or Daniels unless Paul George wants to come to town. I want to hold those four expiring contracts for the summer of 2019 if the team can. The Suns, SHOULD be able to get a solid play for 15 to 17 in this market. And if nobody wants Chriss or Bender, well there are still other assets - the Bucks pick to trade with the Heat pick. My guess, if the Suns sign Gordon to an offer sheet - a sign and trade might look good to the Magic to get assets like Chriss, the Heat pick, the Bucks pick .

I think the Suns can be smart with their money but still go get a player that will help them. I look at a team like the Hornet -- if all else fails - would a player like Marvin Williams be a good two year stop gap, Michael Kidd Gilchrist - as either one of those deals could probably be had pretty cheap -- meaning Tyler Ulis and the Bucks pick and the Suns absorb the contract. Just a veteran to help the team while still maintaining cap flexibility for summer of 2019

Len being renounced only puts us a couple million under assuming we keep our draft picks (4 &14). Then if we renounce Peters it gets us to like $3.7 in cap space. Then if we don't pick up guarantees on Williams, Ulis and Reed, that gives us another $8.5 or so, which puts us at a little over $12 million in space.

Then if we sign Payton for $8 million which is a couple of million less than his cap hold, that could get us up to $14 million.

The only way we really end up with anywhere close to like $20+ million in cap room is if we don't pick up any guarantees (Williams, Reed, Ulis), renounce everyone (Payton, Peters, Len).

OR trade our draft picks...particularly our own first, which I doubt we do.

I'm guessing we keep Williams, Ulis and Reed, which leaves us around $13-$14 million to sign free agents, including Payton. If we keep Payton, it doesn't seem like we'll have much.

So what is your suggestion? Do you think we should go all in this summer, make some bold moves? Or ride it out with Payton, give him a contract of $8 million a year, draft whoever with our pick, and see what happens next season?
Reason I ask, is this is the scenario I been playing over, we hop on board the timeline trade, develop our youth, and eventually they reach their next contract and we can't actually use any money on free agency since we capped ourselves out. Perhaps we grow organically and mold into a playoff team, and eventually become a contender. Though it takes an incredible amount of luck.

I'm really not sure who I want in this draft right now, but I'm hoping they will be that final missing piece of the puzzle.

[King4Day]

Man if this isn't scary enough...

We're tied for the worst record in the NBA. But we're 2 games from being the 8th worst (record wise).
I fear that when Booker returns, we're going to pull ourselves apart from the other teams and wind up 5-8. Hope I'm wrong.
Having 4 more games left against the Warriors isn't the worst thing. 3rd toughest schedule too.

[BobbieL]

Len is renounced - 8m

Payton signs for less than 9.8m - savings; QO is only 4.6m -my guess, between 7-8 me so lets call that 2m in savings. If he leaves altogether, that's 9.8m

if the Heat pick is traded - another 2m

tyler ulis -1.5m, not guaranteed

depending on who you draft =- you can trade Chriss or Bender possibly

I can come up with 15 t 17m in a sign and trade. all the while not stretching Knight too early and not using Chandler, Dudley, Sauce or Daniels unless Paul George wants to come to town. I want to hold those four expiring contracts for the summer of 2019 if the team can. The Suns, SHOULD be able to get a solid play for 15 to 17 in this market. And if nobody wants Chriss or Bender, well there are still other assets - the Bucks pick to trade with the Heat pick. My guess, if the Suns sign Gordon to an offer sheet - a sign and trade might look good to the Magic to get assets like Chriss, the Heat pick, the Bucks pick .

I think the Suns can be smart with their money but still go get a player that will help them. I look at a team like the Hornet -- if all else fails - would a player like Marvin Williams be a good two year stop gap, Michael Kidd Gilchrist - as either one of those deals could probably be had pretty cheap -- meaning Tyler Ulis and the Bucks pick and the Suns absorb the contract. Just a veteran to help the team while still maintaining cap flexibility for summer of 2019

Len being renounced only puts us a couple million under assuming we keep our draft picks (4 &14). Then if we renounce Peters it gets us to like $3.7 in cap space. Then if we don't pick up guarantees on Williams, Ulis and Reed, that gives us another $8.5 or so, which puts us at a little over $12 million in space.

Then if we sign Payton for $8 million which is a couple of million less than his cap hold, that could get us up to $14 million.

The only way we really end up with anywhere close to like $20+ million in cap room is if we don't pick up any guarantees (Williams, Reed, Ulis), renounce everyone (Payton, Peters, Len).

OR trade our draft picks...particularly our own first, which I doubt we do.

I'm guessing we keep Williams, Ulis and Reed, which leaves us around $13-$14 million to sign free agents, including Payton. If we keep Payton, it doesn't seem like we'll have much.

So what is your suggestion? Do you think we should go all in this summer, make some bold moves? Or ride it out with Payton, give him a contract of $8 million a year, draft whoever with our pick, and see what happens next season?
Reason I ask, is this is the scenario I been playing over, we hop on board the timeline trade, develop our youth, and eventually they reach their next contract and we can't actually use any money on free agency since we capped ourselves out. Perhaps we grow organically and mold into a playoff team, and eventually become a contender. Though it takes an incredible amount of luck.

I'm really not sure who I want in this draft right now, but I'm hoping they will be that final missing piece of the puzzle.

I am looking more at Free Agency in 2019 as the class is strong so as said I want to keep Chandler, Dudley, Sauce, Daniels as my "funds for expiring." Granted, the whole Booker extension is also problematic

BWG corrected some of my "math" and using the Capulator online - yes, the Suns renouncing Len and waiving Peters get to about 14m. If the Suns sign Payton for around 8m - that would leave say 6m

Heat Pick: Suns do not need another rookie, they just do not. So include in a trade to move up, which makes that cap hold higher or use in a trade for player
Ulis: 1.5m - waive him

So, maybe that gets to around 10m or so.

Tyreke Evans - probably wants too much

Kidd Gichrist or Marvin Williams - two years left: probably need to add Daniels with Ulis and the Bucks pick for one of those players

To your point, the Suns cannot re-sign everybody every year so have to go with that core group of players. Who knows - maybe the Suns just sign a guy for 6 to 8m bucks and see if the right fit. Again, a lot depends on Payton.

The team has Payton, gets Knight back - who knows - they might be better with another smaller FA added.
Kidd Gilchrist or Marvin Williams - both make closer to 13m but Charlotte wants to dump salary - could one of them be a target

[bwgood77]

All of that said, I am okay not going with Gordon in the event Ayton is drafted. I am comfortable with Bender and Chriss. I just don't know who, this offseason, we could reasonably use our cap space for aside from them. I suppose at that point i'd prefer punting to next offseason, explaining to Booker why we are punting, and try to max out one of the many worthwhile guys next year.

If we keep Payton, I don't even think we'd have enough to sign Gordon anyway. Even letting Williams, Reed, Peters, Ulis, Len go, that gives us like $22 million or something for Payton and whoever else. If Payton got $8 then we'd have $14 left and they'd probably match.

We'd have a few million more if we traded the Heat pick too I guess.

I agree that next year, with Chandler and Dudley expiring and the cap expected to increase more, is the way to go with much more cap space (provided Booker will wait on signing his next deal).

[Waylay13]

So what is your suggestion? Do you think we should go all in this summer, make some bold moves? Or ride it out with Payton, give him a contract of $8 million a year, draft whoever with our pick, and see what happens next season?
Reason I ask, is this is the scenario I been playing over, we hop on board the timeline trade, develop our youth, and eventually they reach their next contract and we can't actually use any money on free agency since we capped ourselves out. Perhaps we grow organically and mold into a playoff team, and eventually become a contender. Though it takes an incredible amount of luck.

I'm really not sure who I want in this draft right now, but I'm hoping they will be that final missing piece of the puzzle.

Right now my suggestion is that we take the 2 1st round draft picks we have this year and add them our core. So far I like what we are seeing from Payton but if we end up Young or Doncic I wouldnt complain. I think most likely we are going to end up with Bamba or JJJ to fill in our center hole, keep Payton and pick BPA with Heat pick. This will see us with an improved roster because Payton is better than any player we have play point guard this year not named Booker. JJ development is going to be showing next year and maybe with camp with our new/resigned coach we will have a better defensive team next year. In other words close to being in the playoffs without signing a major name.

[suns91fan]

Man if this isn't scary enough...

We're tied for the worst record in the NBA. But we're 2 games from being the 8th worst (record wise).
I fear that when Booker returns, we're going to pull ourselves apart from the other teams and wind up 5-8. Hope I'm wrong.
Having 4 more games left against the Warriors isn't the worst thing. 3rd toughest schedule too.

Don't worry about it. Success of the franchise is decided by a lot more things than just a position of one pick.

[bigfoot]

According to The Capulator if we waived/renounced everyone (Ulis, Williams, Reed, Peters, Len, Payton) we would have $22M in cap space. If we signed Payton for $8M we would have $14M. If we keep Williams and sign Payton we have about $8M. In either case we would still have the mid-level exception available too which is about $8M.

Too bad that Williams got hurt this year as it would have been nice to see his fit on the team and would make our decision easier.

So the likely scenarios assuming we sign Payton for $8M are:

1) two veterans for around $8m each if we keep Williams
2) two veterans one for $14M and the other for $8M if we waive Williams