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2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1321 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:15 pm

dremill24 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
dremill24 wrote:
Granted, they did give up a lot. But its a little disingenuous to act like they got that Coulibaly pick for Beal. Though it was roped into a 3-team deal involving Beal, it was really just Indiana trading the #7 pick to Washington for #8 and a couple 2nds (one of which came from Phoenix).


I get what you're saying that it wasn't detailed in the initial framework of the trade. However, it doesn't happen if they don't get that pick to utilize in that slight trade back scenario.

So for this illustration, it's still legitimate as a factor/ inclusion piece to the ultimate outcome same as with any other trade. Because if those assets aren't present, the chain of sequences leading to that outcome is broken and quite likely doesn't happen? But for me personally, I'm not even focusing on the Coulilaby aspect in my value assessment.

For me I was very oppositional to the Beal trade on the premise of leverage we clearly had but never utilized. We bid against ourselves in an unnecessary overpay and gave up critical value in not having control of our picks in those pick swap years, etc. Our value assessment in trade negotiations was/ is pretty bad obviously.
That was my frustration. :dontknow:


I was more commenting on the X poster who failed to include that context. The Wiz and Pacers would have found a way to get their deal done regardless of the Beal trade, they just roped it all together for cap purposes so giving up that extra 2nd wasn't going to make or break that part of it.

But yes, the Beal trade was not great from a vision standpoint or from an asset management standpoint. That X poster should just not be insinuating that they got the #7 pick (Coulibaly) for Beal.


Good point man! And I do agree. :wink:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1322 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:16 pm

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1323 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:28 pm

sunskerr wrote:Every trade scenario that seems feasible just seems like we become even more obviously a lotto team. That's probably the best indicator we need to blow it up.

I'm not gonna bother watching Booker, a few role players and a bunch of scrubs if I havent been watching this current team. No way in hell any of these post-KD teams Kleine is proposing are remotely viable in terms of playoffs aspirations.

But you already know that Kleine and of course you know I agree that we gotta start ripping the band-aid off somewhere. Would just prefer we do it quickly and get our picks back and if that means Booker is gone so be it.


I don't know why there are so many trade proposals being made for mediocre players. Clearly, there is no path forward but to tank. The itinerary for every trade should be picks, picks and more picks. If Houston's willing to work with us that would be great, but I'm not holding my breath. Best case scenario is they decide to splurge on Booker, and we're not so stubborn that we pass on what may be our only chance to avoid 6 years of pure suffering.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1324 » by handsome salary » Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:51 pm

The Suns FO is desperate chum in the water and every other team knows it. None of their picks, mediocre role players and a big salary three who've quit. I don't envision them "winning" any trades in quite a while.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1325 » by Revived » Tue Feb 25, 2025 6:02 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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Has everyone seen these tweets before KD deleted them? Could there be some tension or possibly even a rift brewing between Book and KD?

He's clearly calling out Bickley's comments

Bickley was the only major Suns media reporter that put out an article criticizing the KD trade immediately after it happened. And of course a bunch of idiots bashed him for “dooming” and being a pessimist.

And he’s been 100% right on everything he said. But I don’t think he’s a genius or something, myself and many others here hated the trade when it happened too.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1326 » by Revived » Tue Feb 25, 2025 6:05 pm

I legit don’t think the Suns will be a good franchise for at least another 10 years.

They had a shot at continuing to build the right way through the draft and free agency and chose to piss it all away.

Ishbia hates Dam Gilbert for non-basketball reasons, I wonder how much he hates the fact that the Cavs are a great team with a well set up future while the Suns are a dog**** team that he’s paying the highest payroll in the NBA for.

What a clown.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1327 » by BobbieL » Tue Feb 25, 2025 6:22 pm

Revived wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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Has everyone seen these tweets before KD deleted them? Could there be some tension or possibly even a rift brewing between Book and KD?

He's clearly calling out Bickley's comments

Bickley was the only major Suns media reporter that put out an article criticizing the KD trade immediately after it happened. And of course a bunch of idiots bashed him for “dooming” and being a pessimist.

And he’s been 100% right on everything he said. But I don’t think he’s a genius or something, myself and many others here hated the trade when it happened too.


I am on record pretty much I never wanted the Durant trade for what it cost. I just thought it was WAY too much - and that was even before picks swaps were thrown in for good measure. I felt like it was closing the window way too much

I will also be honest - I LIKED that team. I liked the guys. I think Booker was a happier player with Bridges, Cam and DA. Ready to blow it up and start new.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1328 » by Slim Charless » Tue Feb 25, 2025 6:29 pm

sunsbum wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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JJ made 1 great move with CP3 and everything else has been utterly bad his entire tenure.
not true. Ishbia has been controlling the trades. Jones has also drafted fairly well. In fact Portland radio cannot stop talking about tumani. They are calling him the next Scottie Pippen and if he continues to improve offensively the way he has…


Completely agree.

What's lost in the Jones bashing, is how he is a pretty decent evaluator of talent. He missed on Haliburton but CamJo is good, Camara is very good and Dunn-who should be starting is a fantastic defender.

I have 0 problems with him picking our next player. I am just worried about Ishbia getting too involved in the issue. I also am worried about the return on the trade and him getting full value
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1329 » by Puff » Tue Feb 25, 2025 6:40 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Revived wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:He's clearly calling out Bickley's comments

Bickley was the only major Suns media reporter that put out an article criticizing the KD trade immediately after it happened. And of course a bunch of idiots bashed him for “dooming” and being a pessimist.

And he’s been 100% right on everything he said. But I don’t think he’s a genius or something, myself and many others here hated the trade when it happened too.


I am on record pretty much I never wanted the Durant trade for what it cost. I just thought it was WAY too much - and that was even before picks swaps were thrown in for good measure. I felt like it was closing the window way too much

I will also be honest - I LIKED that team. I liked the guys. I think Booker was a happier player with Bridges, Cam and DA. Ready to blow it up and start new.


I think most of us believe we should blow it up but I think we are really over valuing what we could get in return for what we have and what anyone on this roster will command in a trade. We are going to end up with a losing record, that is a guaranteed. Since KD has arrived in the desert our record has only become worse. He did not fix anything. What team is going to do the same dumb thing we did to acquire him. He is going to be 37 with the injury issues he brings and a $50 + salary. Booker may have appeal but is he the real problem? Our other trade assets are Allen and O'Neale. Neither of them will bring anything in return and no one would want Beal and his contract.

Hopefully I am wrong and we can get something of value in return for KD. Will Ishbia really pull the trigger. It appears that he had a chance at the deadline and passed. Another huge mistake by our owner.

What good roster decision has he made?
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1330 » by Revived » Tue Feb 25, 2025 7:06 pm

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1331 » by Revived » Tue Feb 25, 2025 7:29 pm

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Ishbia doesn’t understand this concept. He’s someone that assumes big names is all you need.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1332 » by BobbieL » Tue Feb 25, 2025 7:48 pm

Puff wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Revived wrote:Bickley was the only major Suns media reporter that put out an article criticizing the KD trade immediately after it happened. And of course a bunch of idiots bashed him for “dooming” and being a pessimist.

And he’s been 100% right on everything he said. But I don’t think he’s a genius or something, myself and many others here hated the trade when it happened too.


I am on record pretty much I never wanted the Durant trade for what it cost. I just thought it was WAY too much - and that was even before picks swaps were thrown in for good measure. I felt like it was closing the window way too much

I will also be honest - I LIKED that team. I liked the guys. I think Booker was a happier player with Bridges, Cam and DA. Ready to blow it up and start new.


I think most of us believe we should blow it up but I think we are really over valuing what we could get in return for what we have and what anyone on this roster will command in a trade. We are going to end up with a losing record, that is a guaranteed. Since KD has arrived in the desert our record has only become worse. He did not fix anything. What team is going to do the same dumb thing we did to acquire him. He is going to be 37 with the injury issues he brings and a $50 + salary. Booker may have appeal but is he the real problem? Our other trade assets are Allen and O'Neale. Neither of them will bring anything in return and no one would want Beal and his contract.

Hopefully I am wrong and we can get something of value in return for KD. Will Ishbia really pull the trigger. It appears that he had a chance at the deadline and passed. Another huge mistake by our owner.

What good roster decision has he made?


My goal with a Durant trade has always been a good solid B

Booker trade - an A
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1333 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:15 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:He's clearly calling out Bickley's comments


For sure man! That's why it says @ Bickley. But my point is that he also references " the narrative they're running with in Phoenix " like he's low key separating himself from the locational distinction or something. And he also does reference how when Booker plays great, no one credits him with influencing that, but when he struggles, then it's because of his presence."

Surely the underlying tone of his response shows that he's at least frustrated and feeling a certain way about the narratives circulating around. It's situations/ narratives, etc like these that can foster contempt and occupational rifts. But hopefully it doesn't happen with these narratives between them.

Lol, you really tried to create a make up story behind a couple of simple sentences @ Bickley.

He said what he said. If he wanted to say other things he would have say it.


LOL! The words are what they are man. How you choose to interpret it is completely up to you. Let's see how things play out this summer to gauge if I was wrong or not beyond just your individual opinion. :D
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1334 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:24 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
sunskerr wrote:Every trade scenario that seems feasible just seems like we become even more obviously a lotto team. That's probably the best indicator we need to blow it up.

I'm not gonna bother watching Booker, a few role players and a bunch of scrubs if I havent been watching this current team. No way in hell any of these post-KD teams Kleine is proposing are remotely viable in terms of playoffs aspirations.

But you already know that Kleine and of course you know I agree that we gotta start ripping the band-aid off somewhere. Would just prefer we do it quickly and get our picks back and if that means Booker is gone so be it.


I don't know why there are so many trade proposals being made for mediocre players. Clearly, there is no path forward but to tank. The itinerary for every trade should be picks, picks and more picks. If Houston's willing to work with us that would be great, but I'm not holding my breath. Best case scenario is they decide to splurge on Booker, and we're not so stubborn that we pass on what may be our only chance to avoid 6 years of pure suffering.


For context, which mediocre players are you referring to man? Also, taking into consideration the necessity of salary fillers for matching purposes under this current CBA situation many teams are in, and the diminished trade value of KD to a receiving team due to age and current contract situation as determining factors too? :dontknow:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1335 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:37 pm

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-Is this really the last run?
-What's missing from KD teams?
-The possibility that Booker asks out
-Why is Bud not playing Dunn and Oso?
-The fear Houston gets a lotto pick

So Gambo believes Ishbia will try to do a soft reload around Booker this summer and that KD in any trade MUST return 2-3 young players and picks! He's also saying that the plan is to get under the 2nd apron as a byproduct of trading KD. If this is true, then it's unlikely that Ishbia will try and pivot to another "All in" move around another big-salary star player.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1336 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:30 pm

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1337 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:55 pm

I don't care to reprosecute decisions made in the past. I'm more focused on and debating what the next steps should be.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1338 » by SunsRback4Good » Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:56 pm

Huge game tonight Mavs vs Lakers. Predict Luka’s numbers against his former team. He’s pissed for being traded I believe he’ll put up a beautiful triple double.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1339 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:27 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:I don't care the reprosecute decisions made in the past. I'm more focused on and what are next steps should be.


Just as we all are. These are discussion topics are merely time fillers to fill the gaps here and there.

As to our future though, I'd believe it has to start with our front office actually manning up and discussing the potential of trades to desired destinations And if he says no and intends to stay, then you have to pivot to KD trades to assess the best value outcome scenarios. But also explore the best options around possible trades for Allen and O'neale too.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1340 » by BobbieL » Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:41 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I don't care the reprosecute decisions made in the past. I'm more focused on and what are next steps should be.


Just as we all are. These are discussion topics are merely time fillers to fill the gaps here and there.

As to our future though, I'd believe it has to start with our front office actually manning up and discussing the potential of trades to desired destinations And if he says no and intends to stay, then you have to pivot to KD trades to assess the best value outcome scenarios. But also explore the best options around possible trades for Allen and O'neale too.


If you trade Booker and Durant -- I would take expirings and 2nd rounders for Allen and O"Neale. Expirings in 2026. The first goal should be about getting under the apron as soon as possible and the second goal should be cap space in the summer of 2027

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