The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

[BobbieL]

How fcking hilarious would it be if the Suns ended up trading away picks they get from a KD trade…just to dump Beal on some other team to save $$?

Trading picks to save $$ on a big overpaid contract….im sure that sounds a little familiar to some of yall!

I 100% expect him to do a couple things with the Durant trade
1) Durant is like $53m going out so he would take back like $46 to save that money

2) take a pick from the Durant trade combined with like the Suns 2027 FRP and add that to Beal to get rid of Beals long term trade
-- and in the Beal trade - they will get a player on an expiring, they will buy out to save more money

But also, Ishbia will sign Booker to an extension

My guess, he won't do the Knicks trade -- too much cash coming in. He is going to try to save money on the deal

My theory is he needs Book to sell tickets and he knows that no star is going to sign here in the immediate future so he would rather overpay to keep Book here for marketing purposes.

Ishbia is going to be paying 421 million after factoring in a staggering 198 million in luxury tax bills and this is an expense that a business can't afford to spend on a franchise that hasn't been one of the highest earners in the league.

After the 2021 championship run revenue for the Suns have been at an all time high but with the team's struggles recently I think even Ishbia realizes that with a crappy product on the floor that revenue likely will dip the worse the team performs and he needs to slash salary and he simply cannot keep losing hundreds of millions of dollars on the luxury tax.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/196764/revenue-of-the-phoenix-suns-since-2006/

Agree with both your thoughts

It’s just that if he hadn’t bern so stupid… better team at less cost

[Ghost of Kleine]

I 100% expect him to do a couple things with the Durant trade
1) Durant is like $53m going out so he would take back like $46 to save that money

2) take a pick from the Durant trade combined with like the Suns 2027 FRP and add that to Beal to get rid of Beals long term trade
-- and in the Beal trade - they will get a player on an expiring, they will buy out to save more money

But also, Ishbia will sign Booker to an extension

My guess, he won't do the Knicks trade -- too much cash coming in. He is going to try to save money on the deal

I'd hate it if he was dumb enough to attach any picks to Beal to move him rather than just letting him expire! BUT I suppose if it would happen, the only 3 trades I would could stomache him attaching picks to would be:

1- Chicago.
Beal/ picks to Chicago for Ball/ Vucevic/ Huerter? (IF P Williams instead of Huerter, I'd do it)But then we get the POR 26' 1st back and the 45th pick in this coming draft. AND I'd immediately follow this trade up with an Allen/ Richards/ CLE 29' 1st for Isaac/ Bidatze/ 25th pick back.

2- Orlando.
Beal/ picks for Isaac/ Bidatze/ KCP/ Harris/ 25th pick.

3- Charlotte.
Beal/ picks for Nurkic expiring/ G Williams/ Josh Green/ 33rd and 34th pick/ 26' 2nd via DEN or GS.

Although I fully expect he won't agree to get traded anywhere else other than Orlando out of the three.

Sorry, man. But Nurkic is a non starter kn discussion, even if it was to offload Beal.

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It's not about having him back on the team though man. It's about acquiring his 19 million expiring contract for the purpose of buying it out so we can get further under the cap to be players in free agency. For the trade, he'd serve as a large salary filler for matching purposes.

And for us, we'd acquire his contract and immediately buy him out (stretching his remaining money owed) to cumulatively reduce our cap by 20 million this summer!

[dremill24]

Yeah thats not how a buyout works

[Ghost of Kleine]

Yeah thats not how a buyout works

Yeah man. I understand that we obviously wouldn't be getting his full 19 million right off the top because whatever agreed upon amount we'd buy him out for, we'd be on the hook for that remaining amount. So say we agreed to buy him out at 16 million (which I absolutely think he'd accept) of his remaining 19 million.

Leaving us with the 16 million on our books. But then we'd stretch that buyout amount by either 3 yrs or 5 yrs to create more cap flexibility now. For instance, if 16 million is our hit (buyout amount remaining) then:

3 years- $5.3 million over 3 years.
5 years- $3.2 million over 5 years.

So yeah, obviously we wouldn't immediately get the full 19 million by virtue of Nurkic buyout alone, but inferring that from adding in the reduction from dumping Micic and Martin? ( 5-6 million below the 2nd apron) as has been previously premised in discussions.

Then that should put us around 21 million ( ** if Nurkics' remaining 16 million is then stretched over 5 yrs at 3.2 million on the books) adding that 16 million cleared, in cumulative cap reduction to the 5-6 from clearing Micic and Martin.

Also then obviously taking back less salaries or smaller salaries in a KD trade, and also likely looking at moving O'neale and Allen would all be mechanisms for us to get even further beyond just 20 million under the 2nd apron possibly this summer.

Nurkic being in the last year of his contract means we'd obviously be on the hook for a smaller amount of money than if on a multi year deal, and cost us less cumulatively if we'd stretch the buyout amount, and therein the value cumulatively becomes 20 million or likely more in terms of flexibility (under the 2nd apron this summer.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[TeamTragic]

Read on Twitter

Not enough assets. We can trade KD for a better package to a different team.

[Slim Charless]

Why did we fire Monty Williams again? He has the 3rd best winning percentage in franchise history. For that matter why did Kerr try to force Thibodeau on my favorite coach Mike D'Antonni. Westphal has the best record in history. what happened to him.

Found this in the Arizona Republic. Coach, Years coached and win loss record. I added in the winning percentage

Where will Ott place on this list?

How many years does he get?

Mike Budenholzer 2024-2025 36-46 0.439
Frank Vogel 2023-2024 49-33 0.597
Monty Williams 2019-2023 194-115 0.627
Igor Kokoskov 2018-2019 19-63 0.232
Jay Triano 2017-2018 21-58 0.266
Earl Watson 2016-2017 33-85 0.28
Jeff Honacek 2013-2016 101-112 0.478
Lindsey Hunter 2013 12-29 0.293
Alvin Gentry 2009-2013 158-144 0.523
Terry Porter 2008-2009 28-23 0.549
Mike D'Antoni 2003-2009 253-136 0.65
Frank Johnson 2002-2003 63-71 0.47
Scott Skiles 1999-2002 116-79 0.595
Danny Ainge 1996-1999 136-90 0.601
Paul Westphal 1992-1996 191-88 0.684
John Wetzel 1987-1988 28-54 0.341
Dick Van Arsdale 1987 14-12 0.538
John MacLeod 1973-1987 579-543 0.516
Butch Van Breda Koff 1973 3-4 0.429
C Fitzsimmons Various 341-208 0.621
Jerry Colangelo 1970,72-73 59-60 0.496
Johnny Kerr 1968-1969 31-89 0.258

You know what I think has a lot to do with those winning %s? The players they have. I think Fitzsimmons was our best coach. He had no Barkley, Nash, CP3, Book, etc.

He did have a 2nd year KJ (and his next few years...basically like a rookie contract), Chambers and a lot of good players like Hornacek and Majerle, and they played so great as a team. They didn't really have any big time past all stars on that team when he took it over. Chambers had made one all star team. They get to the WCF in his first two years with a 2nd and 3rd year PG. Knock out the defending champion Lakers and MVP Magic in 5 in the semis in his second year.

I doubt that there is any coach in history that did not win a championship due to having great players and rosters. The possibly greatest coach in history had either Michael and Scottie or Kobie and Shaq. He won without a big three. Red Aurbach always had the best roster in the league. You have to give it up to Popovich and the Spurs. They won when Pop had the best roster but hung on to him in the good and bad times.

.....also Moronty sucks and did even more so back then.

I wonder how Detroit feels about him? Same team BTW, slightly different results....by about 30 games I believe. 1 of the largest differences in NBA history.

Yeah.

[Saberestar]

It's gonna be an interesting week. We will know who are gonna be Ott’s assistants and better prospects are gonna have workouts for the Suns.

For now we have had only one projected FRP in town... Danny Wolf. I really like him if we can get a pick around #15.

He is an all-around PF/C who can be a connector on offense like Saric or Kaminsky but with a better motor.

We need to have one frontcourt player like that next year.

[thamadkant]

Sabrestar must be an Ishiba employee or Ishiba himself. Always propping Ishiba and his moves.


Danny Wolf is in town because he played for Michigan. Anyone from the state of Michigan is a good chance to be on the Suns franchise.

[Saberestar]

Sabrestar must be an Ishiba employee or Ishiba himself. Always propping Ishiba and his moves.


Danny Wolf is in town because he played for Michigan. Anyone from the state of Michigan is a good chance to be on the Suns franchise.

Haha, I don't care about Wolf's origins. I care about how good he is and how he could help us on the court.

He played one year at Michigan (but not Michigan State) and if that can help us to get better inside information about him as a prospect I guess that's a good thing and we have to use it.

[Rebound Mound]

In a roster that has Dunn, I would say ONeale makes no sense at all.
If you want to cut off expenses and you have a rookie contract that offers similar things to Oneale, and you also have Allen, then getting rid of Oneale and Allen, perhaps, is a must.

[Puff]

You know what I think has a lot to do with those winning %s? The players they have. I think Fitzsimmons was our best coach. He had no Barkley, Nash, CP3, Book, etc.

He did have a 2nd year KJ (and his next few years...basically like a rookie contract), Chambers and a lot of good players like Hornacek and Majerle, and they played so great as a team. They didn't really have any big time past all stars on that team when he took it over. Chambers had made one all star team. They get to the WCF in his first two years with a 2nd and 3rd year PG. Knock out the defending champion Lakers and MVP Magic in 5 in the semis in his second year.

I doubt that there is any coach in history that did not win a championship due to having great players and rosters. The possibly greatest coach in history had either Michael and Scottie or Kobie and Shaq. He won without a big three. Red Aurbach always had the best roster in the league. You have to give it up to Popovich and the Spurs. They won when Pop had the best roster but hung on to him in the good and bad times.

.....also Moronty sucks and did even more so back then.

I wonder how Detroit feels about him? Same team BTW, slightly different results....by about 30 games I believe. 1 of the largest differences in NBA history.

Yeah.

BTW you are absolutely making up nonsense.

1. They fired the old GM
2. The owner stepped aside and let the new GM do his job.
3. Theses are the additions

Malik Beasly - 82 games 27.8 minutes - 16.3 Points
Tim Hardaway - 77 games 28.0 minutes 11.0 Points
Tobias Harris - 73 games 31.6 minutes 17.6 points
Ron Holand - 81 Games 15.6 minutes 6.4 points
Dennis Schroder -28 Games - 25.2 minutes 10.8 Points

and Duren stayed healthy along with Cade. Holland looks like he could be really special.

Not the same team.

What Phoenix Suns coach in the past 20 years other than MDA could have done a better job the Monty did?

I like it when the Suns sin basketball games and Monty just happened to be the coach when we won a lot of basketball games. Why do you hate him so? Didn't he let you date his daughter or something.

[Rebound Mound]

My Goodness, Wolf.
Around 50% in FTs and a bad athlete who is supposed to play PF in the NBA.
Impossible.

[KdoubleDees23]

Read on Twitter

Not enough assets. We can trade KD for a better package to a different team.

How do you know that? I dont think KD is going to fetch us as much as we think. Dude is old, and not a great leader.

[KdoubleDees23]

It's gonna be an interesting week. We will know who are gonna be Ott’s assistants and better prospects are gonna have workouts for the Suns.

For now we have had only one projected FRP in town... Danny Wolf. I really like him if we can get a pick around #15.

He is an all-around PF/C who can be a connector on offense like Saric or Kaminsky but with a better motor.

We need to have one frontcourt player like that next year.

We need a defensive C who hustles. We dont need another soft Nurkic.

[bwgood77]

Why did we fire Monty Williams again? He has the 3rd best winning percentage in franchise history. For that matter why did Kerr try to force Thibodeau on my favorite coach Mike D'Antonni. Westphal has the best record in history. what happened to him.

Found this in the Arizona Republic. Coach, Years coached and win loss record. I added in the winning percentage

Where will Ott place on this list?

How many years does he get?

Mike Budenholzer 2024-2025 36-46 0.439
Frank Vogel 2023-2024 49-33 0.597
Monty Williams 2019-2023 194-115 0.627
Igor Kokoskov 2018-2019 19-63 0.232
Jay Triano 2017-2018 21-58 0.266
Earl Watson 2016-2017 33-85 0.28
Jeff Honacek 2013-2016 101-112 0.478
Lindsey Hunter 2013 12-29 0.293
Alvin Gentry 2009-2013 158-144 0.523
Terry Porter 2008-2009 28-23 0.549
Mike D'Antoni 2003-2009 253-136 0.65
Frank Johnson 2002-2003 63-71 0.47
Scott Skiles 1999-2002 116-79 0.595
Danny Ainge 1996-1999 136-90 0.601
Paul Westphal 1992-1996 191-88 0.684
John Wetzel 1987-1988 28-54 0.341
Dick Van Arsdale 1987 14-12 0.538
John MacLeod 1973-1987 579-543 0.516
Butch Van Breda Koff 1973 3-4 0.429
C Fitzsimmons Various 341-208 0.621
Jerry Colangelo 1970,72-73 59-60 0.496
Johnny Kerr 1968-1969 31-89 0.258

You know what I think has a lot to do with those winning %s? The players they have. I think Fitzsimmons was our best coach. He had no Barkley, Nash, CP3, Book, etc.

He did have a 2nd year KJ (and his next few years...basically like a rookie contract), Chambers and a lot of good players like Hornacek and Majerle, and they played so great as a team. They didn't really have any big time past all stars on that team when he took it over. Chambers had made one all star team. They get to the WCF in his first two years with a 2nd and 3rd year PG. Knock out the defending champion Lakers and MVP Magic in 5 in the semis in his second year.

I doubt that there is any coach in history that did not win a championship due to having great players and rosters. The possibly greatest coach in history had either Michael and Scottie or Kobie and Shaq. He won without a big three. Red Aurbach always had the best roster in the league. You have to give it up to Popovich and the Spurs. They won when Pop had the best roster but hung on to him in the good and bad times.

I think often times Carlisle has not had the best roster and has done a lot more than expected. Start with the 2011 Mavs. They were underdog in every series after beating the Blazers with Aldridge, Roy, Batum, a good Wesley Mathews and Andre Miller. They had Dirk (obviously a superstar), but an aging Marion, aging Kidd (37), Jason Terry, their top 5 players ove 0 and went up against the defending champion and 2 our of last 3 champion Lakers (Kobe, Pau, Odom, Bynum, Metta World Piece, etc), then they knocked out the Thunder with KD, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka and Perkins, before beating the Lebron/Wade/Bosh Heat in the finals.

He also built that 2003 Pistons teams out of no names, getting them to play right... he put together a bunch of players who, at the time, had done nothing, Billups, Hamilton, Prince, and Ben Wallace and got the to the ECF. For whatever reason, they fired him, and brought in Larry Brown, and then a team gifted them Rasheed Wallace, giving them their best player, and they shock the Lakers in 2004. Carllisle basically built that team.

Then he went to the Pacers to build a team to challenge that Pistons team, and did, and built a team that likely would have beat them, with Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, Stephen Jackson, and older Reggie Miller, etc, and of course the Malice in the Palace happens and all the suspensions, paving the way for the Pistons to make the finals again and lose to the Spurs.

Now he has the Pacers playing as well as they can, but they are vastly overmatched. He's always seemed to be a coach that got more than the sum of the parts...make great TEAMS....didn't need a ton of superstars.

[King4Day]

Read on Twitter

Not enough assets. We can trade KD for a better package to a different team.

If we work with the Wolves, I want McDaniels as the centerpiece. At worst, Reid. Anyone else and we're better off finding a deal elsewhere.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

The Eric Pincus trade

Houston gets Durant
Suns get Markkanen Londale and a draft pick

Jazz get a bunch of young players and draft picks

I can see Ishbia wanting a "win-now" player for Durant - but depending on the package from Houston -- it might be better than Markkanen

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

Not enough assets. We can trade KD for a better package to a different team.

If we work with the Wolves, I want McDaniels as the centerpiece. At worst, Reid. Anyone else and we're better off finding a deal elsewhere.

Use the Twolves to drive up their own price and the price of other teams
Same with a team like the Knickerbockers - if they want Durant -- OG must go to Phoenix. Period.