2022-23 Off-Season Discussion and Speculation

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

I’ll say this again, Duncan Robinson is on one of the worst contracts in the league. I would not give up two rotational players for a player that probably will rot on the bench… and on a terrible contract. A first round pick is not enough and will set us back.


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I definitely hear you on his deal, but I think you have to consider the bigger picture/ possibilities here though man. You don't trade for him with the solitary intent to keep him and ride things out. You trade for him to get the 1st and maybe one of their young prospects to give us a more appealing asset cache. And also with the intention of trading him around the deadline to another team for more assets and/ or a better fitting player of need. There are actually numerous post trade possibilities for us to explore in a Duncan Robinson trade. I've listed a couple possibilities above.


But we have to explore trades that might offer productional/ statistical upgrades for our unreliable bench and also subsequently might bring back additional incentives to add to our barren/ unappealing current asset cache. Our front office just needs to be creative in sequenced deals. Also, (depending upon his production in a new environment) and with the imminent cap spikes and our new ownership likely being a billionaire............... His value may absolutely escalate, and be perceived as a valuable commodity for potential trades.

I just think the negatives of Duncan Robinson outweigh the value of the pick in any potential trade. If a team is trading a good player for picks, they don't want to also be taking back inflated long-term salaries. Why pay to lose?

I haven't been able to find a realistic Jae trade that doesn't make us worse next season. Wonder how it plays out.

The thing about the Duncan Robinson trade ( at least for me personally) is that I'm not looking to keep him anyways. My thinking is to trade Crowder (doesn't want to he here anyways) to Miami and take back Duncan Robinson (temporarily) in order to glean a 1st and maybe a young prospect from them whilst also offloading Payne. The deal basically looks like:

Crowder ( 10 million)
Payne ( 7 million)

FOR

Robinson ( 16.8 million)
Orlando Robinson ( prospect- 1.6 million).
Miami 1st.

So we unload Crowder and take back Robinson's deal for the 1st and a young upside prospect. THEN after we showcase Robinson for a bit, we ( intentionally) trade him to another team for a player that's a better fit, addresses our needs, or for more assets.

3 options :
1- Phoenix/ Charlotte

Trade Robinson Craig to Charlotte for Terry Rozier and a 1st ( Denver 23' 1st) + 2nd (Boston 23' 2nd). Rozier upgrades our backup point guard spot plus we get more picks for our asset cache.

2- Phoenix/ Detroit

( Detroit is trying to actually make the playoffs)
Robinson for Burks/ Stewart. Or Burks/ Josephs/ Detroit 25' 1st. In this deal, we'd swap Robinson's contract ( upgrade for Pistons) to save around 15 million in expirings of Burks/ Josephs whilst still getting another draft asset.

3- Phoenix/ Orlando ( Orlando trying to get more competitive now).

Robinson for Terrence Ross/ 11 million expiring/ Cole Anthony or Jalen Suggs?
No assets here, this premise is just to dump Robinson's deal whilst upgrading from Payne to Anthony. IF they won't give Anthony, then maybe we do Ross/ Houston/ Chicago 23' first?

*** OKC
Would the Thunder in an effort to satiate Shai look to finally add more vet players to improve for some of their youngsters?
Robinson ( backcourt compliment to Shai or maybe Giddey) for Muscala/ Bazely/ Mann/ 2nd? Robinson's career averages still indicate solid value and upside. Would OKC have interest in a very solid floor spacer to make Holmgren more effective in the paint upon his return?

*** Philly
Would Philly entertain a Robinson for Melton/ Niang/ filler trade to upgrade their bench shooting with a higher upside player?

*** Boston
Would we consider a swap for Derrick White and Sam Hauser ( young Bogdanovic) or hold Robinson since he's an upgrade to Shamet anyways and then look to offload Shamet to Boston for Derrick White and a Boston 1st? Would a backcourt of D White/ Robinson be stronger/ better (obviously) than Payne/ Shamet? We could walk away from both trades with 2 first and young prospects for our cache.

Or if we didn't fear in conference competition, maybe flip Robinson to
*** Memphis
Robinson for Danny Green's 10 million expiring/ Jake Laravia / Chandler? Or maybe Robinson for Brooks/ Tillie/ 2nd?
I'm sure there'll be no shortage of interested teams for Robinson at the deadline should he return somewhat to form. Personally I'd just prefer to trade Crowder for Robinson/ Jovic/ Miami 1st. Then look to package Shamet/ Saric/ Craig to Charlotte for Rozier and another 1st+ 2nd. Giving us two additional firsts and a 2nd whilst upgrading our backcourt from Payne and Shamet to Rozier and Robinson.

Or trade for Robinson, get the pick and prospect. Then flip Saric/ Shamet/ Craig/ Jovic/ Miami 1st to Utah for Conley and Vanderbilt ( Miami 1st for Vandy). Or Saric/ Shamet/ Craig ( no 1st) for Conley and Gay.

One last all in move with Paul. I'm not too worried about the contracts involved as our bew owner will very likely be significantly more wealthy than Saver anyways. And IF we can upgrade our asset cache with picks/ prospects in the process, then that's a definitive improvement for us. I just feel that either a Conley /Robinson, Conley/ Burks, Rozier/ Robinson or Rozier Burks backcourt would be a significant upgrade to our current Payne/ Shamet backcourt. And would absolutely help sustain Paul's window with us through more viable load management opportunities.

[Damkac]

So another player who "don't wanna be there". And you would think that winning fix things.

This is not rocket science. Jae wants to be a starter.

Should not play like trash in the playoffs then.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[bwgood77]

Embarrassing for Jae Crowder to act like this. For someone who’s been a huge Crowder fan, I’m pissed. Trade him now. Crowder should not be calling shots.


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Not sure what happened
Maybe he didn’t like trade talk
Or maybe he wants to start
But something happened that’s for sure
Time to move on 99Bossman

It seems very out of character for him to act like this. I still maintain, though people may forget I mentioned, I think he is tired of playing with Paul. I don't know if people remember how he acted towards Paul at the end of that last series, but Paul would be talking to (or at, more rather) him, as he was walking towards him and instead of stopping he'd just walk right by.

2 years is about the limit that other vets seems to be able to stand playing with Paul over the past # of years.

[bwgood77]

While I don't think that SGA makes a lot of sense for the Suns, I do think the Suns are planning trying to pull off something big. The fact that we didn't do a Bojan trade makes me believe the Suns are unwilling to part with picks because they want to package them in a big deal.

We have all the right pieces in place for adding a star player:
1. all our picks
2. expiring contracts of quality players (e.g. Crowder, Graig, Saric)
3. Young players signed to long-term contracts (e.g. Bridges, Ayton)

I don't expect any major trades now with training about to start and the Suns up for sale, but once a new ownership comes in I can see them trying to make a splash at the trade deadline.

I can see a major trade if someone wants Ayton and a bunch of picks (Ayton would have to approve this and can't be traded until Dec 15th I think (maybe Jan 15th), and especially if we would part ways with Ayton AND Bridges OR Cam + picks.

I don't think our expirings + picks are that valuable or net us someone good but Ayton could, and especially Ayton and one of those guys.

That being said I think we genuinely like our players. I do feel that with financial constraints in place they don't like paying a C max type money but that could change with a new owner.

The problem with trading Ayton is I really think if we are not trading him for a C, and presumably we wouldn't be as it wouldn't make sense....no one better than him would be on the block and if we wanted to take back someone cheaper they'd probably be worse, unless they take back a star player, cheap pretty good center for Ayton and Bridges.

I don't think these trades are easy to do. Ayton would probably approve a deal if he was going with Bridges I assume. But man, without those two that would really kill the enjoyment of watching them.....and they are probably our most humble likable players along with Cam.

People always throw "star" around, but there really isn't anyone there unless we just circle back to KD and end up there. But if they don't want Ayton I don't see it because they are loaded with shooters and wings.

Plus I am personally against trading those guys and tons of picks for him at his age with Paul likely gone soon anyway. It gives us maybe a 1 year window and kills the future. We have a window anyway....even though the competition is tougher.

I think this is too early to tell. There are a bunch of teams right now with aspirations of deep playoff runs it seems, there are bound to be some disappointments around the trade deadline which could mean teams willing to move on and do a (mini) rebuild.

The east for instance is stacked in terms of teams vying for a top 8 seed:
- if the bulls disappoint, derozan could be on the trading block
- if the raptors disappoint, Siakam could be made available
- if the Nets disappoint, who is to say that Durant trade talks don't pick up again
- the Celtics season has suffered a setback with their coach being a bit naughty and Brown has been in the rumor mill for some time (not to mention up for an extension in two years)
- What if the Hawks experiment with two PGs doesn't work out, they could be ready to move on from Dejounte Murray
- Miami could be the odd team out, who is to say they wouldn't be ready to move on from Butler

and I could go on.

I think the Suns are in no rush to make a trade at the moment, which I like. Panic moves is how we ended up overpaying for Chandler and Ariza in the past - the Suns signed those guys almost immediately at the start of free agency if i remember correctly. Let the market play out see if the right deal comes along.

Maybe, but I wouldn't want DeRozan for Bridges or Ayton and a bunch of picks, I don't see the Celtics moving Brown for Ayton for sure, and I don't know why they'd do Bridges and Cam for picks. Trae and Murray really wanted to play together. They are a perfect pairing in the backcourt with different strengths and they are loaded with wings and bigs. Miami has been in the finals 2 of the last 3 years...and close last year. No way I see them moving Butler.

KD - I always said I don't think he gets traded in the offseason but I could see during the season but they do already have a ton of 2s/3s have said they don't want Ayton, and signed Nic Claxton for reasonable money. It could depend on Claxton though I have said they could go kind of small (but not that small with KD close to 7 ft and Simmons big) and Simmons is a guy that is effective at guarding Cs..and could play point but C on defense fairly often...and their smaller guards like Curry and Mills would guard the PG.

Siakam I think might be the closest, though I don't think they'd want Bridges. They could want Ayton. They can extend him before the season this week for up to like close to $42 million a year. Would we want him at C? With Jokic, the twin towers in Minnesota, the size of the Pelicans, the multiple C options for the Warriors, the size of the Lakers?

I like Siakam but Ayton apparently has once again improved.

I think we are up for trading Ayton but I think there is a good chance it could be a mistake. I don't think Siakam would be very meaningful upgrade and he would make quite a bit more.

Both teams would have to want to make a major change mid season which could be tough, and like you say, if we just have a worse record due to last year it will simply likely be because of stronger competition, not because we are worse, because our players should all improve and our bench guards can't be worse.

I think trading Crowder could be a good move. Is there a team loaded with guards with a guy around his price? Could we throw in Craig? That might leave us thin on the wing if we traded for a guard.

As I've mentioned a lot, I like the idea of Crowder for Dipo and I wish that could happen now. I just don't see what else might make sense.

The main guy off the top of my head is Coby White. He is up for a payday, the Bulls have Ball, Ayo and Caruso, and we have a new owner and could get Paul off the books as White gets a new payday. I wonder how much he wants, but surely he'd love the Suns and playing with Cam.

But maybe they want him and want to trade Ball...would we want him? That gives us good defense and he can shoot...but he is kind of expensive and injury prone.

Do they need a SF/PF? Sometimes they play DeRozan at PF and they have Patrick Williams, but if they feel set at PG and feel toughness vet PF like Crowder makes sense, maybe they do that.

One key thing is that Coby White DID NOT get an extension...as the 6th pick that might be out of the ordinary.

So we could look into a 1st and Crowder for him...which makes sense.

[TeamTragic]

So another player who "don't wanna be there". And you would think that winning fix things.

This is not rocket science. Jae wants to be a starter.

Should not play like trash in the playoffs then.

We can move him but a replacement would be nice

[TeamTragic]

How about LeVert for Crowder?

Bullock?

[Saberestar]

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Underrated signing, I like Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot.

He is better than Torrey Craig IMO. He is more a 2/3 than a 3/4, but similar skill-set.

[BobbieL]

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Underrated signing, I like Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot.

He is better than Torrey Craig IMO. He is more a 2/3 than a 3/4, but similar skill-set.

Craig is the type of contract that might need to be added to "make the math work" so having this type of signing is not hte worst thing. Granted, that means the trade was kind of a flop but such is life

[Ghost of Kleine]

I know that many here probably aren't going to like hearing this consideration. But I'm leaning closer to having a legitimate interest in our trading for Conley from Utah. I get his salary, But we could quite feasibly put together a trade package for him and not have to surrender a draft asset in the deal to get him. Something along the lines of Saric/Shamet/Craig for Conley/Gay should get it done. The way I see it, we have this season and MAYBE next to get the most out of our Paul window. Then in 2024, Our inevitable rebuild begins. Adding Conley now gives us an established/ proven NBA starting caliber guard that has averaged close to 14 points/ almost 6 assists/ and 1.5 steals whilst hitting over 40% from three the last two seasons, and who is a big shot maker and who can be an isolation scorer for us situationally. He'd honestly be our most stable option to provide Paul a modicum of load management by splitting games with him. And between the two, neither should have to play maximum minutes. This gives us a much better chance to actually keep Paul fresh for the postseason as well as giving us another quality ballhandler/ scorer/ shot maker that could competently lead our bench. Now as for his contract, His contract again is only partially guaranteed at 14 million next season, similar to Paul's. And then he's off the books in 24' same as Paul's non-guaranteed yr. So we could waive him (within 48 hours after the 2023 draft and clear 9 million in savings from his salary in 2024. Or IF money proves not to be that big of an issue with our new ownership, then we just let him come off the books and waive Paul in his last year to walk into 24' free agency with close to 50+ million to pursue the many big names in unrestricted free agency that summer??

But most importantly it'd be about stabilizing our bench with a proven quality, playoff-tested savvy leader that can hit/ make big shots, facilitate, and can LEGITIMATELY cover (play starters' minutes situationally without any significant regression) for Paul in a starting role situationally. I just feel that Conley is the highest caliber proven leader type guard that could help us sustain Paul and provide load management to maximize our remaining window with him. Then you still look to flip Crowder to Miami for Robinson (upgrade to Shamet)/ filler (Jovic or Orlando Robinson)/ Miami 1st. A backcourt of Conley/ Robinson seems like a significant upgrade to me from Payne's and Shamet's lackluster inconsistencies. If we're legitimately going "all in" this season with Paul, This just seems to me like the most beneficial way to do it. Again, I'm not going to stress over his salary implications with Saver selling the team, as our new owner will undoubtedly be more financially capable with deeper pockets. This is now the season to take a few calculated risks to optimize our remaining window of contention. Worry about contending now, and the financials in the offseason.

Paul/ Booker/ Bridges/ Johnson/ Ayton.
Conley/ Robinson/ Ish /Gay/ Biyombo.
Washington/ Lee/ Okogie/Orlando Robinson/Landale?
** IF Utah will take Jovic or O Robinson/ Miami 1st for Vandy, then he takes Ish's spot giving our bench
Conley/ Robinson/ Vanderbilt/ Gay/ Biyombo.
That's a really deep bench. If Ainge won't, then you roll with our first lineup and target a key defensive SF around the deadline using the Miami 1st and young prospect/ filler (Washington or Lee)???

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[KLEON]

Am I the only one that's not really excited about the upcoming season?

[TOO]

Am I the only one that's not really excited about the upcoming season?

Nope. Running it back with marginal upgrades and a maxed out Ayton does absolutely nothing for me.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Am I the only one that's not really excited about the upcoming season?

Nope. Running it back with marginal upgrades and a maxed out Ayton does absolutely nothing for me.

Agree with the constant marginal upgrades that never really move the needle or offer significant impact. the majority of fringe minimum signings are nothing more than us spinning our wheels. We need to be more assertive and actually secure higher caliber additions. The problem with always buying low is that the impact/ outcome often correlates to that corresponding value. You save money, but too often get little to no impact. Little risks offer little rewards!

I just hope our new owner has the foresight to actually invest heavily in top-of-the-line talent evaluators and scouts to pull much better value from the draft and undrafted pool/ G league. If not, I'll always be here to help identify hidden/ undiscovered talents for no cost at all.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Mr Puddles]

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Chicago trade seems most realistic.

The ATL trade would be amazing but I don't see the Hawks selling that low on Bogdan.

[bwgood77]

I'm excited for the season. But I'm excited for every season. Of course every season since 2010 except the first season for Hornacek was a massive disappointment, but when we traded for Paul I was interested to see how good we could be.

I certainly wasn't expecting the finals but it was fun. I knew many of the favorites had massive injuries so I did worry that expectations for the team going forward would be too high and people would throw more blame around than maybe even all our 20 win seasons...because I've seen it happen a lot. And we had the Sarver story hanging over our season.

But then last season we rolled. I didn't think we could beat GS and Memphis scared me a bit but though we had a decent chance. I just knew we for the most part had a very young core without much playoff experience....and those teams seem to take a while to get over the hump if they ever do. Even the Bucks had the best record a couple years before getting over the hump...getting massively upset in not so many games by the Heat when they were the heavy favorite having rolled over teams throughout the regular season.

I will be interested to see what happens with Crowder but mostly am curious to see if Booker can reach #1 guy on a serious contender status. It seems like many at this point feel no, evidenced by the fact they felt the need to get KD. We will see..his defensive improvements have been great. I am interested in seeing if he could be the primary ball handler post Paul.

And then Ayton and how they've said he has added next level stuff to his game. Interesting to see what he has added this year after improving so much offensively last year and defensively the year before.

It would be nice to see Bridges step more on offense. He could really be the key to us exploding offensively, and helping us maintain once Paul is gone.

I also don't think 2-3 bad games in a series last year defines our team from last year. Teams get upset in playoff series. It happens all the time.

Many felt last year we had our best team ever...whatever the case, it was certainly close with mostly young guys who will only get better.

[Mr Puddles]

Am I the only one that's not really excited about the upcoming season?

Nope. Running it back with marginal upgrades and a maxed out Ayton does absolutely nothing for me.

I'm on the other side of the fence here. I'm happy we didn't make any panic moves and kept the young core together. For as great as CP3 has been, Booker, Ayton, Bridges is a great trio to keep together. Hopefully, we can keep Cam Johnson as well, and the Suns will be a contender for at least the next 4-5 years as these guys enter their prime together.

Doing something drastic because of one disappointing playoff run would have been a huge mistake. I think the Suns are just biding their time now and waiting for the right deal to come along come trade deadline. The problems this team has had should be fixable with a couple of the right moves.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[PhxLax]

This could all be very simple if u willing to give a first round pick to Mark Cuban. Crowder goes back to starting job with team that loves him and Suns get young stud defensive PF on great 4 year contract who can shoot the 3 ball.

Suns Get: Finney-Smith
Mavs Get: Crowder & 1st Rd Pick

Ayton-Saric-Biz
DFS-Cam-Ish
Bridges-Craig-Okogie
Booker-Shamet-Lee
CP3-Payne-Washington

Landale, Cabaroot, Frank Jackson plug in somewhere if make the team?