2022-23 Off-Season Discussion and Speculation

BobbieL · Post #13321 » by **BobbieL** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:56 am

Revived wrote:Considering all that Utah wanted in return for Bogdanovic was expiring contracts, why didn’t the Suns offer them Crowder/Craig for him?

Bojan would’ve been nice off the bench behind Johnson.

Because the pistons could take on more salary so the jazz saved more money on this seasons lux tax and salary cap

TeamTragic · Post #13322 » by **TeamTragic** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:59 am

BobbieL wrote:
Revived wrote:Considering all that Utah wanted in return for Bogdanovic was expiring contracts, why didn’t the Suns offer them Crowder/Craig for him?

Bojan would’ve been nice off the bench behind Johnson.

Because the pistons could take on more salary so the jazz saved more money on this seasons lux tax and salary cap

SUNS asked for Bogi/Vanderbilt and Ainge said no.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #13323 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:18 am

bwoolf2 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
TeamTragic wrote:

Read on Twitter

Do we try and get Kemba after he gets waived?

Depending on the Jae trade - might have room for Kemba as they might need the guard

Kemba is too small and old at this point, pass...

IF we get him for the minimum, He'd be a fine addition. And given his experience and production, he'd be an upgrade to Jackson and Washington. At the minimum though, he'd be another steady hand/ ballhandler/ playmaker off the bench for insurance in event of a Paul injury and Payne still being unreliable.
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=payneca01&player_id1=walkeke02&sum=0&request=1

Also, He had a significantly better VORP/ WS/ BPM than Payne last season. He's only 32 currently and still put up better production (albeit on slightly worse efficiency) than Payne did last year! So if we can get him on the cheap for insurance, why not..................sign me up! :nod:

(This was only last season) 44 points/ 8 assists/ 0 turnovers!

Spoiler:

10 points/ 10 rebounds/ 12 assists/ 1 turnover!

Spoiler:

When was the last time ANYONE on our bench came close to either of those games statistically??

Now my preference honestly would be to trade some combination of Shamet/Saric/Craig or Payne for Conley. Preferably Shamet/ Saric/ Payne/ Craig for Conley and Gay. Conley would be the highest caliber experienced veteran upgrade to Payne that we could realistically get to provide load management for Paul. Gay would give us more size and offensive versatility at the 4 off the bench. Both would equate to around 28-30 million in cap space towards a loaded 24' free agency. And the BONUS of doing this trade would be to prevent a western conference rival such as the Flakers (or some other western conference rival) from trading for him and adding depth to their roster.

But IF we aren't committed to spending on going "all in" for a title in what could be our last legitimate opportunity with Paul, then this would be a completely reasonable bargain alternative. :nod:

Ghost of Kleine · Post #13324 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:28 am

TeamTragic wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Revived wrote:Considering all that Utah wanted in return for Bogdanovic was expiring contracts, why didn’t the Suns offer them Crowder/Craig for him?

Bojan would’ve been nice off the bench behind Johnson.

Because the pistons could take on more salary so the jazz saved more money on this seasons lux tax and salary cap

SUNS asked for Bogi/Vanderbilt and Ainge said no.

Yes! but we'd have to send out equivalent salary due to us being a tax-paying team. Ainge figured out (as many have been already saying) that Bogi just didn't have that kind of value to return a first as a 19 million one-way player/ expiring. So he opted for the Detroit deal because Detroit took back Bogi's 19 million and only sent out around 13 million between Olynyk and Lee. This was a cap-clearing move that shaved 6 million off their books for this season. They just wouldn't get the same savings in a deal with us do to our cap situation. :dontknow:

BobbieL · Post #13325 » by **BobbieL** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:34 am

TeamTragic wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Revived wrote:Considering all that Utah wanted in return for Bogdanovic was expiring contracts, why didn’t the Suns offer them Crowder/Craig for him?

Bojan would’ve been nice off the bench behind Johnson.

Because the pistons could take on more salary so the jazz saved more money on this seasons lux tax and salary cap

SUNS asked for Bogi/Vanderbilt and Ainge said no.

There is also that. But for the Jazz - dollars were a factor

Ghost of Kleine · Post #13326 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:42 am

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Ghost of Kleine · Post #13327 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:45 am

Read on Twitter

Ja Morant shared this not long ago!
Do we have the testicular fortitude and confidence to consider trading Crowder to Memphis for a Dillon Brooks or perhaps for Clarke/ Chandler or maybe for Laravia/ Tillie/ Minnesota 23' 2nd?? :dontknow:

BobbieL · Post #13328 » by **BobbieL** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:02 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:

Read on Twitter

Ja Morant shared this not long ago!
Do we have the testicular fortitude and confidence to consider trading Crowder to Memphis for a Dillon Brooks or perhaps for Clarke/ Chandler or maybe for Laravia/ Tillie/ Minnesota 23' 2nd??

Make the best trade but not sure I want to help the grizzlies

Ghost of Kleine · Post #13329 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:04 am

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Ghost of Kleine · Post #13330 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:14 am

BobbieL wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:

Read on Twitter

Ja Morant shared this not long ago!
Do we have the testicular fortitude and confidence to consider trading Crowder to Memphis for a Dillon Brooks or perhaps for Clarke/ Chandler or maybe for Laravia/ Tillie/ Minnesota 23' 2nd??

Make the best trade but not sure I want to help the grizzlies

I agree! I personally wouldn't want to help a western conference rival in a trade if given a choice. But it's apparent that Morant and by extension the grizzlies would have solid interest. If we could net a return of a Brandon Clarke( rebounding/ post defense) or Dillon Brooks (shot creation/ perimeter/ POA defense) for Crowder in spite of his recent exploits that otherwise would likely have devalued his perceived value and any leverage we might of had in a trade, then it's an optimal outcome at this point. Perhaps IF they want Crowder bad enough, we could attach Shamet too to get back Brooks and Greens' expiring or Brooks and Clarke IF we added a protected future 1st??? Otherwise, I look at Clarke and then look to move Saric/ Shamet/ Payne to Utah for Conley. Walking away from a disgruntled and devalued Crowder for a return of Clarke and Conley or a backcourt upgrade of Conley/ Brooks off the bench would be super solid towards our run! :nod:

sunsfan1o1 · Post #13331 » by **sunsfan1o1** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:22 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:

Read on Twitter

Ja Morant shared this not long ago!
Do we have the testicular fortitude and confidence to consider trading Crowder to Memphis for a Dillon Brooks or perhaps for Clarke/ Chandler or maybe for Laravia/ Tillie/ Minnesota 23' 2nd??

Jae Crowder is trash. He takes a lot of bad shots and misses most of them. I’d take almost anything on the Grizzlies for Crowder.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #13332 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:29 am

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Ghost of Kleine · Post #13333 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:57 am

Watch on YouTube

Blonde · Post #13334 » by **Blonde** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:04 am

Crowder is a mercenary who has never spent more than 2 seasons on the same team. He’s not interested in building a winning program or taking a backseat to help the team. He wants another bag. I’m not surprised he wasn’t willing to honor his 3 year commitment nor do I really care. I’ve been exploring ways to upgrade his position since he arrived here. But he needs to be replaced with similar talent or we’ll take a huge step back IMO.

Jdiddy701 · Post #13335 » by **Jdiddy701** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:11 am

Does anyone know if the Suns will broadcast their media day on their app like they’ve done the last few years?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bwoolf2 · Post #13336 » by **bwoolf2** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:29 am

Blonde wrote:Crowder is a mercenary who has never spent more than 2 seasons on the same team. He’s not interested in building a winning program or taking a backseat to help the team. He wants another bag. I’m not surprised he wasn’t willing to honor his 3 year commitment nor do I really care. I’ve been exploring ways to upgrade his position since he arrived here. But he needs to be replaced with similar talent or we’ll take a huge step back IMO.

Cam Johnson is already an upgrade to Jae and if his starting numbers last year are any indication a significant one. Whom ever we get will be coming off the bench the starting position is cams and well earned imo.

Fo-Real · Post #13337 » by **Fo-Real** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:38 am

bwoolf2 wrote:
Blonde wrote:Crowder is a mercenary who has never spent more than 2 seasons on the same team. He’s not interested in building a winning program or taking a backseat to help the team. He wants another bag. I’m not surprised he wasn’t willing to honor his 3 year commitment nor do I really care. I’ve been exploring ways to upgrade his position since he arrived here. But he needs to be replaced with similar talent or we’ll take a huge step back IMO.

Cam Johnson is already an upgrade to Jae and if his starting numbers last year are any indication a significant one. Whom ever we get will be coming off the bench the starting position is cams and well earned imo.

He hasn't been consistent! His and Bridges lack of advancement to their game (and Payne disappearing) was a big reason we weren't what we wanted to be at the end of the season. His play DID NOT vault him over Jae or else he would have been a threat to take the starting job this year. We are blindly promoting him to starter because we are gonna invest in him and hope he develops further but its a gamble that he isn't already maxed out on his potential.

garrick · Post #13338 » by **garrick** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:55 am

Given how poorly Jae played last season I don't think it makes much sense for him to pout and demand the starting job because if he was unquestionably much better than Cam the Suns would still be planning to give him starters minutes next season.

The man shot .399% from 2 last season which is absolutely horrible for a starter.

For Kemba I am totally on board with him backing up CP3, he isn't a starter at this point in his career but the man is a huge upgrade over Payne whom I have totally lost faith in.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #13339 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:52 am

Blonde wrote:Crowder is a mercenary who has never spent more than 2 seasons on the same team. He’s not interested in building a winning program or taking a backseat to help the team. He wants another bag. I’m not surprised he wasn’t willing to honor his 3 year commitment nor do I really care. I’ve been exploring ways to upgrade his position since he arrived here. But he needs to be replaced with similar talent or we’ll take a huge step back IMO.

A better scoring/ production option with similar size would be Carmelo Anthony, and Anthony (although he didn't play any defense last year, has a career defensive rating of 108.6 not at all far behind crowders career 107 rating.
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=crowdja01&player_id1=anthoca01&sum=0&request=1

Or you could just sign Jabari Parker on the vet minimum honestly.
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=crowdja01&player_id1=parkeja01&sum=0&request=1
Parker would offer better production and better efficiency. Although Crowder is currently a slightly better 3 pt shooter. But surprisingly enough, Parker actually had an almost identical defensive rating to crowders' at 105.4 to crowders' 105.3 rating.
If we were able to add Carmelo Anthony and Kemba Walker on the cheap (vet min) our bench would still look fairly solid and have much better iso creation between the two. Oshae Brissett wouldn't be bad either via trade :wink:

Ghost of Kleine · Post #13340 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:06 am

Fo-Real wrote:
bwoolf2 wrote:
Blonde wrote:Crowder is a mercenary who has never spent more than 2 seasons on the same team. He’s not interested in building a winning program or taking a backseat to help the team. He wants another bag. I’m not surprised he wasn’t willing to honor his 3 year commitment nor do I really care. I’ve been exploring ways to upgrade his position since he arrived here. But he needs to be replaced with similar talent or we’ll take a huge step back IMO.

Cam Johnson is already an upgrade to Jae and if his starting numbers last year are any indication a significant one. Whom ever we get will be coming off the bench the starting position is cams and well earned imo.

He hasn't been consistent! His and Bridges lack of advancement to their game (and Payne disappearing) was a big reason we weren't what we wanted to be at the end of the season. His play DID NOT vault him over Jae or else he would have been a threat to take the starting job this year. We are blindly promoting him to starter because we are gonna invest in him and hope he develops further but its a gamble that he isn't already maxed out on his potential.

Yet even with his injury and statistical regression last season, Johnson still managed to put up better production on better efficiency last season.
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=crowdja01&player_id1=johnsca02&sum=0&request=1

In addition to that, he also improved his defensive rating to 108.7, only slightly behind crowders' career average of 107. So even in spite of his struggles, he still managed to outperform crowder. He also offers more size and upside as a younger player. The spot was crowders' to lose, and he was horrible last season. Add that consideration to Johnsons' imminent extension too and it just wouldn't make sense to start Crowder whose been less productive and will be making less than Johnson and is older in contrast to our core. The transition was always coming quickly. Crowder's poor performance just expedited the inevitable outcome a bit early. :dontknow:

Where do you think we finish in the standings?