The 2016 Offseason Thread

[bwgood77]

Even in a weak-ish draft, I think you all would have gotten better return by your selection at #12 than you all did with George Hill; in fact, Teague would've been better for you all, IMO, out of that trade, as I felt you guys needed more of a facilitator than scorer out of your PG position, though Teague was the better shooter AND facilitator, overall, IMO. And as you said, if you all don't make a strong push this year, you all may blow it up, and Hill is't the player, IMO, to put you over the top; should've come to us for the 24YO version of Hill in Knight!

No, if they want to keep Hayward, they needed a guy like Hill. A vet. They are ready to take the next step. Hill isn't great, but he is a good guy to be able to play while Exum develops or is injured.

[dremill24]

Even in a weak-ish draft, I think you all would have gotten better return by your selection at #12 than you all did with George Hill; in fact, Teague would've been better for you all, IMO, out of that trade, as I felt you guys needed more of a facilitator than scorer out of your PG position, though Teague was the better shooter AND facilitator, overall, IMO. And as you said, if you all don't make a strong push this year, you all may blow it up, and Hill is't the player, IMO, to put you over the top; should've come to us for the 24YO version of Hill in Knight!

No, if they want to keep Hayward, they needed a guy like Hill. A vet. They are ready to take the next step. Hill isn't great, but he is a good guy to be able to play while Exum develops or is injured.

Utah's offense runs largely through Hayward and Hood. An iso-PG like Teague is not the type of guy that complements them well. Hill is a stable vet who defends well and makes spot up 3s. The fact that hes not an overly dynamic playmaker is not only not a problem, but actually preferable since he doesnt need to have to ball all the time to be effective.

[bwgood77]

Even in a weak-ish draft, I think you all would have gotten better return by your selection at #12 than you all did with George Hill; in fact, Teague would've been better for you all, IMO, out of that trade, as I felt you guys needed more of a facilitator than scorer out of your PG position, though Teague was the better shooter AND facilitator, overall, IMO. And as you said, if you all don't make a strong push this year, you all may blow it up, and Hill is't the player, IMO, to put you over the top; should've come to us for the 24YO version of Hill in Knight!

No, if they want to keep Hayward, they needed a guy like Hill. A vet. They are ready to take the next step. Hill isn't great, but he is a good guy to be able to play while Exum develops or is injured.

Utah's offense runs largely through Hayward and Hood. An iso-PG like Teague is not the type of guy that complements them well. Hill is a stable vet who defends well and makes spot up 3s. The fact that hes not an overly dynamic playmaker is not only not a problem, but actually preferable since he doesnt need to have to ball all the time to be effective.

Agreed. I like Teague better if you need a pass first PG, but for vet presence and defense, I'd take Hill. I had Hill in fantasy and his offense was pretty inconsistent but he will have games where he will hit a few threes so he can spread the floor and play defense.

[NavLDO]

No, if they want to keep Hayward, they needed a guy like Hill. A vet. They are ready to take the next step. Hill isn't great, but he is a good guy to be able to play while Exum develops or is injured.

Utah's offense runs largely through Hayward and Hood. An iso-PG like Teague is not the type of guy that complements them well. Hill is a stable vet who defends well and makes spot up 3s. The fact that hes not an overly dynamic playmaker is not only not a problem, but actually preferable since he doesnt need to have to ball all the time to be effective.

Agreed. I like Teague better if you need a pass first PG, but for vet presence and defense, I'd take Hill. I had Hill in fantasy and his offense was pretty inconsistent but he will have games where he will hit a few threes so he can spread the floor and play defense.

What Vet presence does Hill have over Teague? 32 games? In fact, Teague has 58 games MORE starting, so how I fail to see the 'vet' argument.

And not having a PG to run their offense through hasn't worked out for them, so why wouldn't they want to try something different; you know what they say about those who continue to do the same thing, yet expect different results, right?

Plus, Teague shot 275 times from 3 last season with a 40% rate; Hill shot 314with a 40.8% percent rate, so I fail to see that argument as well. AND Teague's DRtg was 2 pts better.

So again, I don't see how a 2 year-older PG, who shoots a smidgeon better, depending, defends worse, that shot maybe 15% less overall (which to me, isn't that big of a difference (988 vs 790, extrapolated out for game difference) was the better of the two to fill in the gap, that again, didn't workout for them. The numbers just do not match up, IMO.

So let me ask you, if the offense doesn't 'run through' Hill, and yet he's not an iso-player, what good will he actually bring to the Jazz? Just save your money, because Hill is not difference maker and if they are trying to get better, than to me, you go get the better shooting and defending and assisting PG who is two years younger but has more in game experience. And yes, I'm going off more recent experience vs career-wise.

I'm not saying Teague was a slam-dunk better choice, but more of the fact that I'm, not Hill was a great choice/

[bwgood77]

Utah's offense runs largely through Hayward and Hood. An iso-PG like Teague is not the type of guy that complements them well. Hill is a stable vet who defends well and makes spot up 3s. The fact that hes not an overly dynamic playmaker is not only not a problem, but actually preferable since he doesnt need to have to ball all the time to be effective.

Agreed. I like Teague better if you need a pass first PG, but for vet presence and defense, I'd take Hill. I had Hill in fantasy and his offense was pretty inconsistent but he will have games where he will hit a few threes so he can spread the floor and play defense.

What Vet presence does Hill have over Teague? 32 games? In fact, Teague has 58 games MORE starting, so how I fail to see the 'vet' argument.

And not having a PG to run their offense through hasn't worked out for them, so why wouldn't they want to try something different; you know what they say about those who continue to do the same thing, yet expect different results, right?

Plus, Teague shot 275 times from 3 last season with a 40% rate; Hill shot 314with a 40.8% percent rate, so I fail to see that argument as well. AND Teague's DRtg was 2 pts better.

So again, I don't see how a 2 year-older PG, who shoots a smidgeon better, depending, defends worse, that shot maybe 15% less overall (which to me, isn't that big of a difference (988 vs 790, extrapolated out for game difference) was the better of the two to fill in the gap, that again, didn't workout for them. The numbers just do not match up, IMO.

So let me ask you, if the offense doesn't 'run through' Hill, and yet he's not an iso-player, what good will he actually bring to the Jazz? Just save your money, because Hill is not difference maker and if they are trying to get better, than to me, you go get the better shooting and defending and assisting PG who is two years younger but has more in game experience. And yes, I'm going off more recent experience vs career-wise.

I'm not saying Teague was a slam-dunk better choice, but more of the fact that I'm, not Hill was a great choice/

Depends on what you need and want. Hill's a much better defender despite you stating otherwise. See below.

Indiana Pacers Grade: B-

Pacers acquire: Jeff Teague

This is shaping up to be the summer of sideways moves for the Pacers, who ditched coach Frank Vogel and replaced him with assistant Nate McMillan and then traded one pretty good point guard on an $8 million expiring contract for another pretty good point guard on an $8 million expiring contract.

As with the Vogel decision, this trade seems rooted in a basic desire to change for change’s sake. It’s not all that surprising that the Pacers elected to move on from the defense-first Hill (12.1 PPG, 3.5 APG) to the more dynamic Teague (15.7 PPG, 5.9 APG). Indiana’s 23rd-ranked offense floundered last season despite the return of Paul George, and Teague matches Hill’s outside shooting ability while also adding more off-the-dribble potency and playmaking for others. Throw in the fact that Teague is two years younger, and Indiana can optimistically view this as a move that improves the Pacers’ offense immediately and helps their long-term outlook too.

• Trade Grades: Knicks’ acquisition of Derrick Rose is all sizzle, no steak

There are concerns. First, Teague reportedly played through a knee injury last season. Second, the Hawks weren’t able to recapture their 2015 chemistry last season, and Teague occasionally was benched for back-up Dennis Schroder down the stretch. Third, Teague grades far worse than Hill defensively: Hill ranked 14th among point guards in Defensive Real Plus-Minus last season, while Teague ranked 55th. Fourth, Teague is entering a contract year, and he will likely command far more than Hill on the 2017 market if he plays to his full stat-producing potential. That could wind up forcing the Pacers to pay big money to retain a point guard who, while selected to the 2015 All-Star team, isn’t a truly elite player at that position.

On balance, this feels like a move in which the Pacers addressed one weakness (playmaking) while creating another (point-guard defense). Teague should arrive motivated, given his contract situation, and he should relish the opportunity to run the show without Schroder breathing down his neck. For that reason, acquiring Teague could pay off nicely this season. The better he performs, the harder the Pacers will need to swallow when it comes time to re-sign him in July 2017.

Utah Jazz Grade: A

Jazz acquire: George Hill

I’ve been screaming for the Jazz to find a competent point guard for at least 11 straight months. They did it! They did it!

There’s risk any time an up-and-coming team parts with a lottery pick for a veteran on an expiring contract, but this looks like the right time and the right place to gamble. For starters, Hill’s on-ball stopper skills will fit in perfectly with the Jazz’s strong defense. Despite losing center Rudy Gobert for much of last season, Utah ranked seventh in defensive efficiency. With the addition of Hill and the return of big guard Dante Exum from a knee injury, the Jazz should be a top-five defense next season with anything resembling good health.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/06/22/jeff-teague-george-hill-trade-pacers-jazz-hawks-nba-draft-rumors

[NTB]

Finally some Chandler sighting.

[LukasBMW]

Finally some Chandler sighting.

Ulis is tiny. But you can see his intensity in even casual photos.
Booker looks happy. He also looks ready.
Chandler's wife is pretty and curvy. Wow. Lucky dude.
I'm reading way too much into a few stupid photos.

[bwgood77]

Finally some Chandler sighting.

Ulis is tiny. But you can see his intensity in even casual photos.
Booker looks happy. He also looks ready.
Chandler's wife is pretty and curvy. Wow. Lucky dude.
I'm reading way too much into a few stupid photos.

Chandler's wife haha. That's Jordin Sparks. She's super tall and also thick for a girl though. Like close to 6 ft or more. I met her dad once, Phillipi Sparks, ASU and NYG corner.

Those young guys might be fans of hers.

[LukasBMW]

Finally some Chandler sighting.

Ulis is tiny. But you can see his intensity in even casual photos.
Booker looks happy. He also looks ready.
Chandler's wife is pretty and curvy. Wow. Lucky dude.
I'm reading way too much into a few stupid photos.

Chandler's wife haha. That's Jordin Sparks. She's super tall and also thick for a girl though. Like close to 6 ft or more. I met her dad once, Phillipi Sparks, ASU and NYG corner.

Those young guys might be fans of hers.

Hahaha! LOL. Someone on the suns is tapping dat ass! But at 6ft, her options are limited to NBA players.

[bwgood77]

Ulis is tiny. But you can see his intensity in even casual photos.
Booker looks happy. He also looks ready.
Chandler's wife is pretty and curvy. Wow. Lucky dude.
I'm reading way too much into a few stupid photos.

Chandler's wife haha. That's Jordin Sparks. She's super tall and also thick for a girl though. Like close to 6 ft or more. I met her dad once, Phillipi Sparks, ASU and NYG corner.

Those young guys might be fans of hers.

Hahaha! LOL. Someone on the suns is tapping dat ass! But at 6ft, her options are limited to NBA players.

Well she dated Jason DeRulo (pretty big artist in the music industry) for 3 years. I had to just look it up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordin_Sparks , but I knew she had dated some pretty famous star. She probably has a pretty big choice of who she can date.

[bwgood77]

This is good....Arians is a guy who definitely knows how to coach...any advice from him is good.

Read on Twitter

[Damkac]

Chandler's upper body and lower body looks like coming from two different persons. I wonder how he can jumps on that skinny legs.

[NTB]

[batsmasher]

Chandler looks thick, solid, tight.

[NavLDO]

Agreed. I like Teague better if you need a pass first PG, but for vet presence and defense, I'd take Hill. I had Hill in fantasy and his offense was pretty inconsistent but he will have games where he will hit a few threes so he can spread the floor and play defense.

What Vet presence does Hill have over Teague? 32 games? In fact, Teague has 58 games MORE starting, so how I fail to see the 'vet' argument.

And not having a PG to run their offense through hasn't worked out for them, so why wouldn't they want to try something different; you know what they say about those who continue to do the same thing, yet expect different results, right?

Plus, Teague shot 275 times from 3 last season with a 40% rate; Hill shot 314with a 40.8% percent rate, so I fail to see that argument as well. AND Teague's DRtg was 2 pts better.

So again, I don't see how a 2 year-older PG, who shoots a smidgeon better, depending, defends worse, that shot maybe 15% less overall (which to me, isn't that big of a difference (988 vs 790, extrapolated out for game difference) was the better of the two to fill in the gap, that again, didn't workout for them. The numbers just do not match up, IMO.

So let me ask you, if the offense doesn't 'run through' Hill, and yet he's not an iso-player, what good will he actually bring to the Jazz? Just save your money, because Hill is not difference maker and if they are trying to get better, than to me, you go get the better shooting and defending and assisting PG who is two years younger but has more in game experience. And yes, I'm going off more recent experience vs career-wise.

I'm not saying Teague was a slam-dunk better choice, but more of the fact that I'm, not Hill was a great choice/

Depends on what you need and want. Hill's a much better defender despite you stating otherwise. See below.

Indiana Pacers Grade: B-

Pacers acquire: Jeff Teague

This is shaping up to be the summer of sideways moves for the Pacers, who ditched coach Frank Vogel and replaced him with assistant Nate McMillan and then traded one pretty good point guard on an $8 million expiring contract for another pretty good point guard on an $8 million expiring contract.

As with the Vogel decision, this trade seems rooted in a basic desire to change for change’s sake. It’s not all that surprising that the Pacers elected to move on from the defense-first Hill (12.1 PPG, 3.5 APG) to the more dynamic Teague (15.7 PPG, 5.9 APG). Indiana’s 23rd-ranked offense floundered last season despite the return of Paul George, and Teague matches Hill’s outside shooting ability while also adding more off-the-dribble potency and playmaking for others. Throw in the fact that Teague is two years younger, and Indiana can optimistically view this as a move that improves the Pacers’ offense immediately and helps their long-term outlook too.

• Trade Grades: Knicks’ acquisition of Derrick Rose is all sizzle, no steak

There are concerns. First, Teague reportedly played through a knee injury last season. Second, the Hawks weren’t able to recapture their 2015 chemistry last season, and Teague occasionally was benched for back-up Dennis Schroder down the stretch. Third, Teague grades far worse than Hill defensively: Hill ranked 14th among point guards in Defensive Real Plus-Minus last season, while Teague ranked 55th. Fourth, Teague is entering a contract year, and he will likely command far more than Hill on the 2017 market if he plays to his full stat-producing potential. That could wind up forcing the Pacers to pay big money to retain a point guard who, while selected to the 2015 All-Star team, isn’t a truly elite player at that position.

On balance, this feels like a move in which the Pacers addressed one weakness (playmaking) while creating another (point-guard defense). Teague should arrive motivated, given his contract situation, and he should relish the opportunity to run the show without Schroder breathing down his neck. For that reason, acquiring Teague could pay off nicely this season. The better he performs, the harder the Pacers will need to swallow when it comes time to re-sign him in July 2017.

Utah Jazz Grade: A

Jazz acquire: George Hill

I’ve been screaming for the Jazz to find a competent point guard for at least 11 straight months. They did it! They did it!

There’s risk any time an up-and-coming team parts with a lottery pick for a veteran on an expiring contract, but this looks like the right time and the right place to gamble. For starters, Hill’s on-ball stopper skills will fit in perfectly with the Jazz’s strong defense. Despite losing center Rudy Gobert for much of last season, Utah ranked seventh in defensive efficiency. With the addition of Hill and the return of big guard Dante Exum from a knee injury, the Jazz should be a top-five defense next season with anything resembling good health.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/06/22/jeff-teague-george-hill-trade-pacers-jazz-hawks-nba-draft-rumors

But you are basing that on one stat, and ignoring all the others, Teague had more steals, more blocks, higher DWS, and higher DRtg. I understand "RPM" appears to be the gold standard, but there are no 'all encompassing' stats that will tell the entire story.

And the year prior ('14-'15) was the opposite. Teague was ranked 7th (.95), and Hill was ranked 35th (-.87); the year before was opposite, again, with Hill ranked 12th, but Teague was ranked 27th. Point being, how reliable/accurate is that stat when it flip-flops that easily? It's not as if Hill is some lock-down PG, and then when you figure in all the rest of the numbers on both sides of the ball, to me, Teague would've been the better choice. That's really the crux of my side of this debate; that if Utah wanted to 'breakout' this year, I don't see how adding Hill is going to move the needle much, and if the idea is that Utah will 'blow it up' after this season if they don't become a contender, I'd rather go with the PG that is 2 years younger, is a better facilitator of the ball, even if he has some 'iso' in him, his numbers are still better than Hill's in that regard, and if Exum flops, they are left with Hill to mentor a rookie PG next season, and IMO, Teague is better suited for that role.

So it's not just about this season; I would've looked out a bit further to have a plan for the year after. Obviously, I'm wrong on this point, since the Jazz went the way they did; it just doesn't make a ton of sense to me from an outsider's point of view, is all. I hope I'm right; that'd be one less tem to worry about competing with this year!

[jcsunsfan]

Finally some Chandler sighting.

Ulis is tiny. But you can see his intensity in even casual photos.
Booker looks happy. He also looks ready.
Chandler's wife is pretty and curvy. Wow. Lucky dude.
I'm reading way too much into a few stupid photos.

Chandler's wife haha. That's Jordin Sparks. She's super tall and also thick for a girl though. Like close to 6 ft or more. I met her dad once, Phillipi Sparks, ASU and NYG corner.

Those young guys might be fans of hers.

She an Ulis look about the same size. So, I would say she is 5-10.

[bwgood77]

But you are basing that on one stat, and ignoring all the others, Teague had more steals, more blocks, higher DWS, and higher DRtg. I understand "RPM" appears to be the gold standard, but there are no 'all encompassing' stats that will tell the entire story.

And the year prior ('14-'15) was the opposite. Teague was ranked 7th (.95), and Hill was ranked 35th (-.87); the year before was opposite, again, with Hill ranked 12th, but Teague was ranked 27th. Point being, how reliable/accurate is that stat when it flip-flops that easily? It's not as if Hill is some lock-down PG, and then when you figure in all the rest of the numbers on both sides of the ball, to me, Teague would've been the better choice. That's really the crux of my side of this debate; that if Utah wanted to 'breakout' this year, I don't see how adding Hill is going to move the needle much, and if the idea is that Utah will 'blow it up' after this season if they don't become a contender, I'd rather go with the PG that is 2 years younger, is a better facilitator of the ball, even if he has some 'iso' in him, his numbers are still better than Hill's in that regard, and if Exum flops, they are left with Hill to mentor a rookie PG next season, and IMO, Teague is better suited for that role.

So it's not just about this season; I would've looked out a bit further to have a plan for the year after. Obviously, I'm wrong on this point, since the Jazz went the way they did; it just doesn't make a ton of sense to me from an outsider's point of view, is all. I hope I'm right; that'd be one less tem to worry about competing with this year!

I guess ultimately it doesn't matter what we think. I was just pointing you to an article written by an nba writer for a national website. Obviously the Jazz experts felt Hill was more the type of player they needed as well. I think Teague WILL have better stats this year, but it isn't all about that. Hill is more the type of player that plays not just because of the numbers he provides, but because of his veteran leadership which is what is needed in Utah, and why they signed guys like Diaw and Joe Johnson.

Steals are not really a good indicator of defense (because often this is a case of overgambling often and it costs you defensively more often than not), and I doubt the greater number of blocks amounted to much, them being point guards.

[bwgood77]

Ulis is tiny. But you can see his intensity in even casual photos.
Booker looks happy. He also looks ready.
Chandler's wife is pretty and curvy. Wow. Lucky dude.
I'm reading way too much into a few stupid photos.

Chandler's wife haha. That's Jordin Sparks. She's super tall and also thick for a girl though. Like close to 6 ft or more. I met her dad once, Phillipi Sparks, ASU and NYG corner.

Those young guys might be fans of hers.

She an Ulis look about the same size. So, I would say she is 5-10.

Ding ding...we have a winner! https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=jordin%20sparks%20height

[dremill24]

Why is Booker always wearing short shorts and no socks

[SSOL]

Why is Booker always wearing short shorts and no socks

? How old are you?