Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[Saberestar]

That "sixth man" thing about Warren needs to stop IMO.
He is getting closer to a borderline All Star player.

He is too good (and improving) to not start in this league.

It's just hard when your only elite skill is scoring from the mid-range and in. His defense is improving. If he became an above average defender that would go a long way. He doesn't really pass or rebound very well. He can get you points in bunches though. I'm not sure how many times I've seen him turn a 1-8 start into a 10-20.

He is elite in transition and he is an elite offensive rebounder too.

And defensively he is good. He can improve, but he is better than average IMO.

[bwgood77]

Well we already cashed in one of our 2018 picks, possibly a pick that will be as high as #1 for budding all star Brandon Knight. So that's the pick from this year you get to see traded and cashed in for that legit player. I don't view him doing that and panicking like he did with that move to try and cash in for hopes at a playoff spot turned out very well. The approach you prefer may prove to be the right one though when Knight returns next year and we compare him and the cap space he eats up to the player we may have gotten with that Lakers pick. Time will tell. We'll see if cashing in on picks really paid off. If so, it certainly didn't pay off quickly and I'd rather have the pick back. I'd like to not see that play out again by trading another pick this year or another unprotected future pick either.

It was a bold move at the time and Knight was considered a snubbed all-star in the East. He was only 23 at the time so it made sense that McD felt it was the correct decision. If it wasn't for Booker's emergence I could see Knight having played well, though likely not enough to warrant a top 5 pick in this upcoming draft but not as bad as he's been last year.
I hope McD doesn't look back at that trade and make him question other deals. Maybe he was hesitant to trade Bledsoe and the 4th pick for Kyrie becase he felt Jackson was going to be the next Kawhi. Right now looking back at that, I'd say that was a missed opportunity.

Maybe, I’m the only one but I still don’t have a problem with the non Kyrie trade.

1. Would Devin have regressed instead of explode like he has this year? Devin deferred too much to Bledsoe IMO. He and Irving could have butted heads.
2. TJ is”growing” on me, but he ain’t there yet, however, he plays sooooo well with Booker. If he could shoot the three....game over. I think this synergy w Book and TJ doesn’t happen, although it could have been great between Booker and Irv.
3. Irving’s defense which brings me to point 4
4. JJ. was drafted for defense and Swiss Army Knife status. BPA and nice fit.
5. Irving may have left. Who wanted nor needs that drama? That could as we know, kill team chemistry.

I’ll never 20/20 the Kyrie thing. If you make the best decision possible based off of the evidence at the time, you made the right decision no matter the outcome. A bad outcome doesn’t equate to a bad decision.

No, I'm good with it too. I think it's still WAY too early to give up on JJ. Plus, I want no part of another disgruntled PG wanting to leave. He had that list we were not on, and McD may have gotten more information from the camp. I don't think they end up preferring that Celtics offer regardless anyway. Another angle is, for those worried about Booker leaving after a while, how would Booker feel after a could of more competitive years with Kyrie only to watch him leave and then watch our team likely regress again? I think that increases his chance of wanting out in 3 years. For those that like to watch Booker be the best player on the team and have it as "his" team, he wouldn't have had that with Kyrie either.

[Saberestar]

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[JMac1]

Could we do this instead?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybebmd3t

I'm not a big fan of Kemba. We could offer whatever picks is necessary for the Hornets to do it.

Lillard Booker Warren Bender Chriss

I'd love Kemba on this team as I think he'd mesh well with Booker.
It'd cost us our 2018 first and both Miami firsts at the least for that deal to go through. Kemba is too valuable to that franchise and they have no need to deal him.

I don’t know. I think we need players who can excel by playing off Booker and at times take the ball out of his hands. We don’t need guys who’s strength is having the ball and struggles without it. I don’t want any player who hurts another player because their style of play. We will probably be like the Steve Nash dependent Suns back in the day, when he went the Suns went, however, it would make for a better team.

French Frank would be a perfect PG for us. I would like someone in his mold. Defender, good ball-handler, two level scorer (penetration and 3’s). Frank isn’t that now, but that’s where he will be IMO.

[Qwigglez]

It was a bold move at the time and Knight was considered a snubbed all-star in the East. He was only 23 at the time so it made sense that McD felt it was the correct decision. If it wasn't for Booker's emergence I could see Knight having played well, though likely not enough to warrant a top 5 pick in this upcoming draft but not as bad as he's been last year.
I hope McD doesn't look back at that trade and make him question other deals. Maybe he was hesitant to trade Bledsoe and the 4th pick for Kyrie becase he felt Jackson was going to be the next Kawhi. Right now looking back at that, I'd say that was a missed opportunity.

Maybe, I’m the only one but I still don’t have a problem with the non Kyrie trade.

1. Would Devin have regressed instead of explode like he has this year? Devin deferred too much to Bledsoe IMO. He and Irving could have butted heads.
2. TJ is”growing” on me, but he ain’t there yet, however, he plays sooooo well with Booker. If he could shoot the three....game over. I think this synergy w Book and TJ doesn’t happen, although it could have been great between Booker and Irv.
3. Irving’s defense which brings me to point 4
4. JJ. was drafted for defense and Swiss Army Knife status. BPA and nice fit.
5. Irving may have left. Who wanted nor needs that drama? That could as we know, kill team chemistry.

I’ll never 20/20 the Kyrie thing. If you make the best decision possible based off of the evidence at the time, you made the right decision no matter the outcome. A bad outcome doesn’t equate to a bad decision.

No, I'm good with it too. I think it's still WAY too early to give up on JJ. Plus, I want no part of another disgruntled PG wanting to leave. He had that list we were not on, and McD may have gotten more information from the camp. I don't think they end up preferring that Celtics offer regardless anyway. Another angle is, for those worried about Booker leaving after a while, how would Booker feel after a could of more competitive years with Kyrie only to watch him leave and then watch our team likely regress again? I think that increases his chance of wanting out in 3 years. For those that like to watch Booker be the best player on the team and have it as "his" team, he wouldn't have had that with Kyrie either.

It sounds like the Celtics were also not on Kyrie's list but Ainge took a gamble on him. Kyrie mentioned earlier in the year that he is a big fan of Devin, so there's that too. And you keep mentioning that Kyrie would leave, yet you don't look at the other side of the fence and think of the possibility of him staying. According to the recent wiretap the deal sounds like it was in place but we declined it, likely because of Josh Jackson. I think McD felt like the Celtics were going to take him at 3 regardless of JJ's not working out with them before the draft. Because the Celtics didn't take him, the Suns decided to keep the pick.
Anyway, if we made the deal, we'd still have both Miami picks, plus our future picks. We could have used those to obtain another star or even free up cap space by packaging them with Knight.

If the Suns were competitive why would Kyrie leave after a couple of seasons that doesn't make any sense. So he would go to one of the three destinations he listed? Let's see... the Wolves would be over the cap, the Spurs would likely be over the cap after they extend Kawhi Leonard or at least not enough to offer a max contract, and the Knicks would be hovering around 80mil in salary with Porzingis, Noah, Hardaway Jr, Lance Thomas, Courtney Lee. So Kyrie would have left the Suns, even though the Suns would be able to offer him a 5th year, and more money. I doubt it.

Oh and here's another thing, I doubt any player in the NBA has Phoenix on their list of teams they want to play for. It doesn't happen until we are a better team. Put Kyrie with Booker, I bet a lot of players may now want to play for the Suns. Was anyone signing with the Warriors in the 2000's? No because they sucked. Now, everybody is trying to go there.

I could care less about this being "Booker's team", I don't think he would care, I don't think Kyrie would have cared, I don't think Durant/Curry care who the Warrior's team is either.

Obviously there is nothing we can do about it now since the dominoes have already fallen. Yes, it's too early to give up on JJ, but he hasn't looked good at all on offense. Booker is supposedly bad at defense but he more than makes up for it on the offensive end. JJ's defense does not make up for his offense and it's not even close. I thought it was a bad decision at the time to not make that trade, but I can see why McD thought otherwise. He didn't want to trade a future Kawhi-like player, and he probably didn't think Warren was this good, even though Warren started out last year really well but got that weird penis tattoo or something. JJ better make a deal with the devil to improve his shot because I just don't see him being any better than MKG.

[Jarlaxle0204]

Talking about TJ's penis tattoo injury always cracks me up.

[NTB]

Talking about TJ's penis tattoo injury always cracks me up.

Don't remind me man...

[MathiasPW]

Talking about TJ's penis tattoo injury always cracks me up.

Don't remind me man...

Got some new intel on that, btw.

Can't say much, but it involves failed reconstructive surgery, heavy injection of hormones and TJ being on this list:

http://insider.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/technicalFouls

[NTB]

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[Mulhollanddrive]

Zach Lavine is a wildcard idea next to Booker as a buy low opportunity.

Better at everything than Brodgon / Ntilikina except defense (though he has the athletic tools to improve that).

[NavLDO]

Saberestar has a great idea here. Napier can do it all, he's like a PG version of Devin Booker. And by that i mean 3pt, passing, mid range and the ability to take it to the cup. The Blazers cannot afford to keep him nor do they have the playing time being that they have CJ and dame. I say we throw a first or two their way and see what he's got for the rest of the season.

Better.

Well, I would not offer too much for him right now because he is gonna be a RFA next season. Probably the Mil first at most.

I think he is an upgrade over Ulis and Canaan...but both of our PGs can improve over the season...IDK.

Plus, he has 30 games of positive production, and is already 26, and in his 4th season. I'm ok getting excited about our youngsters after such few games, because we don't have to invest anything in them; their here already. But if we are going to invest assets, I personally want more of a 'known quantity' than what Napier has shown, at age 26.

[NavLDO]

I feel like the general consensus is that we should draft a PG with our pick this year. With Knight still available should we handle our need at the C position instead? I pretty much look at our starting PG and C positions and see a hole as far as a player that will serve as a starter with our timeline. Len won't cut it, neither will alan williams, and this draft seems to be filled with more talent at the big man positions. I also don't see Bender being a starting Center.

Well, the reason Len "won't cut it" hasmore to do with the Coach/FO not giving him the starter role to provie himself this year, andless about talent. I'll take Len at Center ALL DAY over Knight at PG, but not because I think Len is so 'awesome', but because what personally want from those positions. Len is much closer to my ideal Center than Knight is to my ideal PG. Again, this is my opinion only, and I do not expect others to feel the same way, but Len COULD be a dominant force inside, and be a top 10 Defensive and Rebounding Center in this league; it's his assist ability - ball movement basically, that he seems to lack, as well as, of course, ball handling.

Knight, however, doesn't seem to be interested in ball-movement...like, at all, and I personally would like our PG to be a better decsion maker than Brandon 'drive killer' Knight. I'm ok with scoring PGs, but my god, score within the first few seconds on the clock, and if not, get rid of it; don't just stand there and think about it for 12 seconds, than put up a long 2.

I think that's what some, IMO, mistake with scoring PGs that they are all ball hogs, and they don't all have to be. They can still get their 25 pts AND 6-7 Assts per night...

The last 3 seasons, Wall averaged over 20/10 (this year's numbers are down from that, but are still 18/9). Lowry was a 20/6.7ish (I'm guessing here). Westbrook is just insane, so I won't bring him up. Walker's been a 22/5.5 the past 3 years. Lillard is 22/6 for his career.

So it's not impossible...even the 'hated' Kyrie has been a 22/5.5 guy for his career. We just need a guy to shoot around 38% from 3, add about 15-18pts a game, and give us 5+ assists, and I think we are good, so long as he comes in with the right attitude, and Booker and Warren MAINTAIN what they are doing, or close to it, with that added production. But if they go down to, say, 18 and 14 PPG respectively, then we are probably playing a BK clone, because he's stopping the offense, rather than contributing to it.

So, in response to what you are saying, I think we need BOTH. They both do not have to be all-stars, since I think we have our All-Stars...well, an All-Star. We just need 3 solid pieces that are supporting, which is why I'm so adamant about a decision being made between Chriss and Bender, while the other be placed on the Trade Market with our other Assets, so we can use the remainder of this season building that PF toward being our starter (and Len at Center, ideally), so when we go into next season, we are just 'tweaking', instead of 'flailing'.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Nobody mentioned Brandon Knight for 3 months until Gambo brought it up to fill a segment on radio one day.

[bigfoot]

Looking at the bottom 14 teams, one could assume they might be interested in trading players that aren't on rookie contracts (IE, guys that fans still hope will pan out)

Atlanta
No one. They are not trading Schroder.

Lakers
No one of interest. Lopez is expiring. Ball and Ingram are untouchable. Clarkson is interesting if we can get him cheap.

Orlando
No one they would trade. Don't know if I want to pay AG. They ain't moving Isaac. Don't want Vucevic

Memphis
Too old

Sacramento
All the young guys I'd want to look at, they wouldn't trade. Unless we could somehow steal Fox from them.

Dallas
No one. They might be the worst team in the league.

Chicago
Again, all their young guys they will keep. Too bad Dunn has started to play well for them

Brooklyn
We missed our shot at Russell. Still hoping we target Okaor as a free agent.

Hornets
Kemba and Monk are interesting. But I'd only be interested if they are cheap. The front office may not want to trade assets for 2 years of 27 year old Kemba when we have 26 year old Knight locked up for 3 years.

Utah
They ain't trading Gobert. I'd still take a flyer on Exum

Philly
They can't pay everyone. Keep an eye on them.

Clippers
I'd pull the trigger if we can get Blake cheap. Our medical staff could keep him alive.

NYK
I'd make a godfather offer for KP.


But in reality...gonna have to keep building for the draft. And McDonough may have to find our next PG and C with some magic in that #10-14 range like he did with TJ and Book.

I think Barnes in Dallas, Vucivic, Payton and Ross in Orlando, and even Bazemore in Atlanta could all be targets.

Yeah I was eyeing Bazemore last night at the Atlanta game. Another undrafted player who made it on hustle and defense. He's shooting lights out from 3 and putting up nice assist numbers too. Might be perfect next to Booker other than he is a little old (29) and is paid well by the Hawks.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Bazemore's offensive rating is worse than Knight's every comparable season.

[NTB]

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[lilfishi22]

Zach Lavine is a wildcard idea next to Booker as a buy low opportunity.

Better at everything than Brodgon / Ntilikina except defense (though he has the athletic tools to improve that).

Lavine always struck me as a chucker type. I'm probably wrong about that generalization but I'd prefer a lower usage player next to Booker, ideally. I still think Brogdon is one of the better fits next to Booker. His defense is solid, he's a high IQ player with a good passing game and he hits 3's at a solid clip. If there is a buy low opportunity, I think Brogdon is also one. Won't happen since we already traded with them this season but Bucks already have Bledsoe/Giannis handling the ball most of the time and with Delly around a vet off the bench, I could see them using Brogdon as a trade chip to get better at another position. Not saying Brogdon has been relegated to 3rd stringer by any means but he does have a lot of value in a position where they are relatively strong at.

[lilfishi22]

Talking about TJ's penis tattoo injury always cracks me up.

Don't remind me man...

Got some new intel on that, btw.

Can't say much, but it involves failed reconstructive surgery, heavy injection of hormones and TJ being on this list:

http://insider.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/technicalFouls

That's a surprise. Dude is such a sleeper on the tech foul list. When looking at reputation and demeanor, he doesn't really seem to belong on the list with the other guys in that top 10.

[NavLDO]

I've heard this same thing for the last five years ... Len, Chriss, Bender, Jackson hyped same as this years crop of 18 year olds.

I say trade our draft picks and a few players for a legit star. Pick up a legit free agent this summer too.

Funny the official rebuild only started two years ago with the tank that lead to Bender and Chriss but even at that the set a goal of being back in the playoffs in 2020. you want to give up on the player that the majority of GMs around the NBA said would be the best player in 5 years because you are short sighted. No thanks I want a team that is going to be going after a championship not some "Oh I made it into the playoffs so everything is fine." look at Phil they have bright future because they had a plan and stuck with it and got some talented players to build around.

No, No! For at least five years (and probably longer) I have heard the repeated cries for losses so we can get a top 5 draft pick. Sure we overachieved a few of those years and netted TJ Warren and Booker. In the losing years we still haven't found the superstar most folks insist we will get.

In terms of getting what Philly did those odds are impossible now that the draft rules will be changing in 2019. Only a 14% chance of getting the #1 if you have the worst record. So basically there is a negligible chance to ever repeat what Philly did with the number of top 3 picks they got over the last five years.

In terms of waiting five years for JJ to become "the best player in his draft class" I will take a pass and trade him if necessary. Booker won't wait five years to become a winner and Jackson's shot may take that long to fix.

Especially when we are as close as we are...or can be, if done right. It amazes how our own fans sell our best players short. Maybe not Booker, but I'm just in awe how Warren is still being discussed as a 6th Man, when...

a) He's our 2nd best player, and
b) Well, as I just said, he's our 2nd best player...and numbers 3, 4, and 5 are not even close, and yes even Dudley, for those who somehow still believe he is some how still really good, and
c) Our 3rd best player is already being used from the bench (Len)...and now we want our 2nd best there, too?

Look, we have some vets, mixed in with some youngsters; we have 2nd Rd picks starting while we have two #4 and one #5 overall picks riding the pine, while a 35 YO Center, a 5'10" 20 YO PG lead us into battle every night. This team is grossly mismanaged, but it is not without talent.

I'm not sure what they are doing...or trying to accomplish, to be honest. I REALLY hope McD is just waiting for the desperation that comes with Trade Deadline deals, because if we were actually trying to win, we would be starting:

Canaan / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Len

...and playing a 10-man rotation when Reed is fully back, with Daniels, Reed, JJ, Bender, and Monroe (feel free to replace Len with Monroe if you feel strongly enough about it).

If we did this until near the deadline then traded Chandler and Monroe to teams that are on the cusp and needing a a little bit extra, and went to a 9-man rotation, I have ZERO doubt, we would finish the season somewhere around 36-46--at least.

We have TWO guys that are scoring 20+ a night, and that's with teams KNOWING that they are our only threats. Imagine if we played Daniels 20-25 MPG, Len and Monroe splitting time like 28-20, and if Reed is halfway decent, he, Bender, and Chriss would be nailing 3s, as Chriss and Bender have been doing ok at, the past month (Chriss = .359 ; Bender = .374); at least respectable enough to warrant guarding.

Anyway, we are 15-23 right now, and that is with NOT playing with our optimal roster. There is no reason to try to tank, so we can 'possibly' get a top 5 pick...so can can 'possibly' pick the right prospect. How about we just play to win, trade Monroe, Chandler, and Dudley, if at all possible, for pick(s) or younger players that would do us more good than a playoff roster, this year.

Then, when it's all said and done, we'll evaluate what we have before the draft, and trade up with ALL our picks (Mia Unprotected '21, Mil '20(??), a 2nd or 2, Chriss or Bender and JJ...yes, JJ, to get the best player in the draft that we can manage, that is either a PG or C, and begin next season with Booker, Warren, Chriss, and our Shiny New pick (PG or C).

[Mulhollanddrive]

McDonough on radio continued to emphasise patience with the young core doesn't seem to be in a rush.

Hopefully we can trade up get a franchise PG or C - Ayton, Doncic, Young, Bamba.