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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

What direction would you like the front office to take?

Keep developing young guys and keep first rounders
74
73%
Trade our 18 first/Jackson and whatever else for best player available
11
11%
Trade whatever it takes for vet PG and maybe also vet PF
9
9%
Trade vets for expiring contracts and 2nd rounders
7
7%
 
Total votes: 101

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1381 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jan 4, 2018 1:31 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:McDonough on radio continued to emphasise patience with the young core doesn't seem to be in a rush.

Hopefully we can trade up get 1 of Ayton, Bamba, Doncic, Young.


Hopefully the player we pick in the teens ends up being the best player in the draft. Hopefully our second rounders turn into huge steals. Hopefully we add the final piece via free agency. Hopefully the young players already on our roster take big steps in the years ahead and turn out better than the players you've listed.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1382 » by TeamTragic » Thu Jan 4, 2018 1:39 am

cosmofizzo wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:McDonough on radio continued to emphasise patience with the young core doesn't seem to be in a rush.

Hopefully we can trade up get 1 of Ayton, Bamba, Doncic, Young.


Hopefully the player we pick in the teens ends up being the best player in the draft. Hopefully our second rounders turn into huge steals. Hopefully we add the final piece via free agency. Hopefully the young players already on our roster take big steps in the years ahead and turn out better than the players you've listed.


We just beat the Hawks who are the worst team in the league. I hope everyone felt good about themselves on that delayed flight.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1383 » by Waylay13 » Thu Jan 4, 2018 1:47 am

NavLDO wrote:Especially when we are as close as we are...or can be, if done right. It amazes how our own fans sell our best players short. Maybe not Booker, but I'm just in awe how Warren is still being discussed as a 6th Man, when...

a) He's our 2nd best player, and
b) Well, as I just said, he's our 2nd best player...and numbers 3, 4, and 5 are not even close, and yes even Dudley, for those who somehow still believe he is some how still really good, and
c) Our 3rd best player is already being used from the bench (Len)...and now we want our 2nd best there, too?

Look, we have some vets, mixed in with some youngsters; we have 2nd Rd picks starting while we have two #4 and one #5 overall picks riding the pine, while a 35 YO Center, a 5'10" 20 YO PG lead us into battle every night. This team is grossly mismanaged, but it is not without talent.

I'm not sure what they are doing...or trying to accomplish, to be honest. I REALLY hope McD is just waiting for the desperation that comes with Trade Deadline deals, because if we were actually trying to win, we would be starting:

Canaan / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Len

...and playing a 10-man rotation when Reed is fully back, with Daniels, Reed, JJ, Bender, and Monroe (feel free to replace Len with Monroe if you feel strongly enough about it).

If we did this until near the deadline then traded Chandler and Monroe to teams that are on the cusp and needing a a little bit extra, and went to a 9-man rotation, I have ZERO doubt, we would finish the season somewhere around 36-46--at least.

We have TWO guys that are scoring 20+ a night, and that's with teams KNOWING that they are our only threats. Imagine if we played Daniels 20-25 MPG, Len and Monroe splitting time like 28-20, and if Reed is halfway decent, he, Bender, and Chriss would be nailing 3s, as Chriss and Bender have been doing ok at, the past month (Chriss = .359 ; Bender = .374); at least respectable enough to warrant guarding.

Anyway, we are 15-23 right now, and that is with NOT playing with our optimal roster. There is no reason to try to tank, so we can 'possibly' get a top 5 pick...so can can 'possibly' pick the right prospect. How about we just play to win, trade Monroe, Chandler, and Dudley, if at all possible, for pick(s) or younger players that would do us more good than a playoff roster, this year.

Then, when it's all said and done, we'll evaluate what we have before the draft, and trade up with ALL our picks (Mia Unprotected '21, Mil '20(??), a 2nd or 2, Chriss or Bender and JJ...yes, JJ, to get the best player in the draft that we can manage, that is either a PG or C, and begin next season with Booker, Warren, Chriss, and our Shiny New pick (PG or C).


In order to advance into the playoffs it generally expected that you must have 2 all star level players. Portland has them, New Orleans has them, and even the clippers have them. The Suns on the other hand has one. Warren isnt close to being an All star level talent at small forward. This is just to get into the playoffs. Now in the age of the superteams we are going to need 3 all-star level talents to be able to complete against the Warriors or Houston. In otherwords even if we slip in to the playoffs we are out in the first round and the results are that we lose possible talent in the draft that might have pushed us into the playoffs for the long term next year.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1384 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jan 4, 2018 3:01 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Zach Lavine is a wildcard idea next to Booker as a buy low opportunity.

Better at everything than Brodgon / Ntilikina except defense (though he has the athletic tools to improve that).


I doubt he is a buy low candidate. He was a key piece in the Butler trade and the Bulls have been playing well, even without him, so I think they'd be glad to add him to Dunn/Markkanen/Mirotic/Portis

If he was a buy low candidate that would probably mean his injury is impacting him in a big way. It's kind of like trading for Fultz...if he was available there is probably something really wrong with him.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1385 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jan 4, 2018 3:10 am

cosmofizzo wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:McDonough on radio continued to emphasise patience with the young core doesn't seem to be in a rush.

Hopefully we can trade up get 1 of Ayton, Bamba, Doncic, Young.


Hopefully the player we pick in the teens ends up being the best player in the draft. Hopefully our second rounders turn into huge steals. Hopefully we add the final piece via free agency. Hopefully the young players already on our roster take big steps in the years ahead and turn out better than the players you've listed.


Who do you think we can get with the Miami pick that could potentially be the best pick in the draft?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1386 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jan 4, 2018 3:33 am

bwgood77 wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:McDonough on radio continued to emphasise patience with the young core doesn't seem to be in a rush.

Hopefully we can trade up get 1 of Ayton, Bamba, Doncic, Young.


Hopefully the player we pick in the teens ends up being the best player in the draft. Hopefully our second rounders turn into huge steals. Hopefully we add the final piece via free agency. Hopefully the young players already on our roster take big steps in the years ahead and turn out better than the players you've listed.


Who do you think we can get with the Miami pick that could potentially be the best pick in the draft?


Ask me again in June!
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1387 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jan 4, 2018 3:44 am

cosmofizzo wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
Hopefully the player we pick in the teens ends up being the best player in the draft. Hopefully our second rounders turn into huge steals. Hopefully we add the final piece via free agency. Hopefully the young players already on our roster take big steps in the years ahead and turn out better than the players you've listed.


Who do you think we can get with the Miami pick that could potentially be the best pick in the draft?


Ask me again in June!


Are you still high on Robert Williams? I think at one point you wanted to take him with our pick last year..I remember him and Zach Collins.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1388 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jan 4, 2018 3:53 am

bwgood77 wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Who do you think we can get with the Miami pick that could potentially be the best pick in the draft?


Ask me again in June!


Are you still high on Robert Williams? I think at one point you wanted to take him with our pick last year..I remember him and Zach Collins.


You have a good memory. I'm probably higher on Williams than most, but I'm not sure.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1389 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jan 4, 2018 4:08 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Zach Lavine is a wildcard idea next to Booker as a buy low opportunity.

Better at everything than Brodgon / Ntilikina except defense (though he has the athletic tools to improve that).


I doubt he is a buy low candidate. He was a key piece in the Butler trade and the Bulls have been playing well, even without him, so I think they'd be glad to add him to Dunn/Markkanen/Mirotic/Portis

If he was a buy low candidate that would probably mean his injury is impacting him in a big way. It's kind of like trading for Fultz...if he was available there is probably something really wrong with him.

Hence buy-low

Both guys are worth a shot especially in a buy low scenario. Don't think either guys would be sold for low though.
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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1390 » by jcsunsfan » Thu Jan 4, 2018 4:26 am

Waylay13 wrote:
NavLDO wrote:Especially when we are as close as we are...or can be, if done right. It amazes how our own fans sell our best players short. Maybe not Booker, but I'm just in awe how Warren is still being discussed as a 6th Man, when...

a) He's our 2nd best player, and
b) Well, as I just said, he's our 2nd best player...and numbers 3, 4, and 5 are not even close, and yes even Dudley, for those who somehow still believe he is some how still really good, and
c) Our 3rd best player is already being used from the bench (Len)...and now we want our 2nd best there, too?

Look, we have some vets, mixed in with some youngsters; we have 2nd Rd picks starting while we have two #4 and one #5 overall picks riding the pine, while a 35 YO Center, a 5'10" 20 YO PG lead us into battle every night. This team is grossly mismanaged, but it is not without talent.

I'm not sure what they are doing...or trying to accomplish, to be honest. I REALLY hope McD is just waiting for the desperation that comes with Trade Deadline deals, because if we were actually trying to win, we would be starting:

Canaan / Booker / Warren / Chriss / Len

...and playing a 10-man rotation when Reed is fully back, with Daniels, Reed, JJ, Bender, and Monroe (feel free to replace Len with Monroe if you feel strongly enough about it).

If we did this until near the deadline then traded Chandler and Monroe to teams that are on the cusp and needing a a little bit extra, and went to a 9-man rotation, I have ZERO doubt, we would finish the season somewhere around 36-46--at least.

We have TWO guys that are scoring 20+ a night, and that's with teams KNOWING that they are our only threats. Imagine if we played Daniels 20-25 MPG, Len and Monroe splitting time like 28-20, and if Reed is halfway decent, he, Bender, and Chriss would be nailing 3s, as Chriss and Bender have been doing ok at, the past month (Chriss = .359 ; Bender = .374); at least respectable enough to warrant guarding.

Anyway, we are 15-23 right now, and that is with NOT playing with our optimal roster. There is no reason to try to tank, so we can 'possibly' get a top 5 pick...so can can 'possibly' pick the right prospect. How about we just play to win, trade Monroe, Chandler, and Dudley, if at all possible, for pick(s) or younger players that would do us more good than a playoff roster, this year.

Then, when it's all said and done, we'll evaluate what we have before the draft, and trade up with ALL our picks (Mia Unprotected '21, Mil '20(??), a 2nd or 2, Chriss or Bender and JJ...yes, JJ, to get the best player in the draft that we can manage, that is either a PG or C, and begin next season with Booker, Warren, Chriss, and our Shiny New pick (PG or C).


In order to advance into the playoffs it generally expected that you must have 2 all star level players. Portland has them, New Orleans has them, and even the clippers have them. The Suns on the other hand has one. Warren isnt close to being an All star level talent at small forward. This is just to get into the playoffs. Now in the age of the superteams we are going to need 3 all-star level talents to be able to complete against the Warriors or Houston. In otherwords even if we slip in to the playoffs we are out in the first round and the results are that we lose possible talent in the draft that might have pushed us into the playoffs for the long term next year.


Western conference. Small forwards.

PER
1. Kevin Durant
2. TJ Warren

SCORING
1. Kevin Durant
2. Paul George
3. TJ Warren

It would help if the team was better. But he is playing on a potential all-star level. Kahwai has been injured of course.

I am not saying TJ should be or will be an all-star, but “nowhere near” is incorrect in my judgement.


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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1391 » by TOO » Thu Jan 4, 2018 4:37 am

Yeah no, he's not playing at an all-star level. He's scoring fairly efficiently from 2. Dude avgs 1ast, less and than a steal, shoots 18% from 3. Decent year, not anywhere near all star level. Using PER as barometer isnt exactly a good way to measure overall performance.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1392 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jan 4, 2018 4:59 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Zach Lavine is a wildcard idea next to Booker as a buy low opportunity.

Better at everything than Brodgon / Ntilikina except defense (though he has the athletic tools to improve that).


I doubt he is a buy low candidate. He was a key piece in the Butler trade and the Bulls have been playing well, even without him, so I think they'd be glad to add him to Dunn/Markkanen/Mirotic/Portis

If he was a buy low candidate that would probably mean his injury is impacting him in a big way. It's kind of like trading for Fultz...if he was available there is probably something really wrong with him.

Hence buy-low

Both guys are worth a shot especially in a buy low scenario. Don't think either guys would be sold for low though.


Well he was already bought while injured, so you could consider Chicago getting him when his value was low, believing in him. If they gave up on him I'd be very weary and think it not a good option was my point. That being said, I don't think he is a candidate at all, which was my first point. I don't think he is even close to being on the block, and will be a RFA that will require a big pay day. But I imagine if we inquired and they gave us a price it would be very high. I imagine they view Dunn/Lavine as their future backcourt along with Markkanen and Mirotic (who has been on fire) perhaps, if they stick with him. They probably really want Ayton or Bamba in this draft. Bamba (if he's not a bust) would be perfect with Markkanen.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1393 » by suns91fan » Thu Jan 4, 2018 5:20 am

Warren is playing on exactly the same level as he did last season. The only difference is an extended usage due to Bledsoe's absence. Efficiency is still below average, defense is still below average, tunnel vision is still there and he still can't stretch the floor. It's not all so bleak though. Hustle and transitions are his strengths. All in all, i still think he's a 6th man on a good team. So no, not even close to an all-star level.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1394 » by darealjuice » Thu Jan 4, 2018 6:22 am

I love TJ, he's one of my favorite Suns players since the Nash era, but he's definitely not an All Star and it's hard to picture him becoming one. He is below league average in TS% and eFG%, doesn't create his own shot consistently, is basically a non-shooter from 3, is not a consistent playmaker, and is just starting to become an average defender. We literally have to run all of our sets for him inside the 3 point line or he's plain ineffective, and it clearly hurts out spacing. Teams don't even pay attention to him off-ball when he's on the 3-point line because they know that he'll pass up the 3 and they can get out to contest the mid-range shot. He's extremely good at what he does, which is scoring on transition, cuts, floaters, and hustle plays, but he's average/below-average in every other facet of the game.

There's nothing wrong with that though. He's definitely got a role in the league as a solid starter/stud sixth man, and could fight to be a top 10 SF if he continues to play well and improve on his opportunities. However, the reality is that unless he adds at least one of elite shot creating, 3-point shooting, lock down defense, and strong playmaking to his game he just isn't going to be an All Star-level player.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1395 » by Revived » Thu Jan 4, 2018 6:28 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Zach Lavine is a wildcard idea next to Booker as a buy low opportunity.

Better at everything than Brodgon / Ntilikina except defense (though he has the athletic tools to improve that).

More than Lavine, I like Terry Rozier from the Celtics. Look at his recent game logs and he has some serious potential. Great defender that would be a good fit next to Booker.

Boston apparently wants bigs so I'd definitely part with one of Chandler, Len or Monroe for him. Maybe throw in Tyler Ulis too if Booker won't pull a Markieff over it.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1396 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jan 4, 2018 7:23 am

darealjuice wrote:I love TJ, he's one of my favorite Suns players since the Nash era, but he's definitely not an All Star and it's hard to picture him becoming one. He is below league average in TS% and eFG%, doesn't create his own shot consistently, is basically a non-shooter from 3, is not a consistent playmaker, and is just starting to become an average defender. We literally have to run all of our sets for him inside the 3 point line or he's plain ineffective, and it clearly hurts out spacing. Teams don't even pay attention to him off-ball when he's on the 3-point line because they know that he'll pass up the 3 and they can get out to contest the mid-range shot. He's extremely good at what he does, which is scoring on transition, cuts, floaters, and hustle plays, but he's average/below-average in every other facet of the game.

There's nothing wrong with that though. He's definitely got a role in the league as a solid starter/stud sixth man, and could fight to be a top 10 SF if he continues to play well and improve on his opportunities. However, the reality is that unless he adds at least one of elite shot creating, 3-point shooting, lock down defense, and strong playmaking to his game he just isn't going to be an All Star-level player.


Yeah, I love TJ as well...just the smooth scoring, humble attitude, and all that, but really wish he would develop that 3 ball or play good D, and preferably both. He showed flashes last year, and tonight with being active coming up with steals, and showed some playmaking tonight and has had some games with good rebounding, but it's not real consistent. Currently he is just a great scorer from inside the arc....up there near the top for wings in there and scoring in motion but without much else, he's far away from an all star, and yes, on a good team, that elite scoring is great for 6th man, but right now it's clear he should be starting, and I've always felt he should be starting unless Jackson starts playing well enough to take it from him and became the better fit with Booker.

Neither him or Booker have a positive RPM or net rating yet, though Booker is getting closer on RPM and his BPM is now positive as his + on offense now outweighs his negative on defense by a small margin by that metric.

I wish they both could improve on the defensive end. Booker could potentially make the all star game in the east, but even a guy like Oladipo has overall outplayed him this year (though probably not to end games the way Booker has with his super clutchness as of late)...so who knows?

They both have stepped up and I expect continued improvement and I expect Chriss, Bender and Jackson to continue to improve as well. I think once these guys get more experience and grow as players most, if not all of them could be special players. It won't happen overnight, but it will be nice (at least for me) to see them grow together.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1397 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jan 4, 2018 7:27 am

Revived wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Zach Lavine is a wildcard idea next to Booker as a buy low opportunity.

Better at everything than Brodgon / Ntilikina except defense (though he has the athletic tools to improve that).

More than Lavine, I like Terry Rozier from the Celtics. Look at his recent game logs and he has some serious potential. Great defender that would be a good fit next to Booker.

Boston apparently wants bigs so I'd definitely part with one of Chandler, Len or Monroe for him. Maybe throw in Tyler Ulis too if Booker won't pull a Markieff over it.


I like Rozier too. 3/1 ast/to ratio, decent from 3, a positive on defense. Nothing not to like, but I doubt he's going anywhere. If he does, we should definitely try and get him if we can't get a guy like Young, or perhaps Sexton in the draft (though still not totally sold on Sexton, but I wouldn't complain if we end up 8th or something and take him).
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1398 » by Mulhollanddrive » Thu Jan 4, 2018 7:57 am

Will Warren go back to his previous level once we have a 3rd scorer or can he maintain similar to 20/6.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1399 » by Revived » Thu Jan 4, 2018 8:53 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Zach Lavine is a wildcard idea next to Booker as a buy low opportunity.

Better at everything than Brodgon / Ntilikina except defense (though he has the athletic tools to improve that).

More than Lavine, I like Terry Rozier from the Celtics. Look at his recent game logs and he has some serious potential. Great defender that would be a good fit next to Booker.

Boston apparently wants bigs so I'd definitely part with one of Chandler, Len or Monroe for him. Maybe throw in Tyler Ulis too if Booker won't pull a Markieff over it.


I like Rozier too. 3/1 ast/to ratio, decent from 3, a positive on defense. Nothing not to like, but I doubt he's going anywhere. If he does, we should definitely try and get him if we can't get a guy like Young, or perhaps Sexton in the draft (though still not totally sold on Sexton, but I wouldn't complain if we end up 8th or something and take him).

He's a luxury for Boston behind Irving and Smart. His role would be even further decreased once they get Hayward back next season.

Boston's bigs are all trash outside Horford so they can look to upgrade their with one of ours which could be enticing for them.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4 

Post#1400 » by hollywood6964 » Thu Jan 4, 2018 9:45 am

I can't believe there's playoff talk on here. Phx will not make the playoffs. They've had a creampuff schedule that's about to get tougher; let the blowouts commence.

I'm still in full tank mode. I just don't see the point of rooting for the suns to make the playoffs, only to end up in 10th or 11th place, n then only to say "had we won 4 more games, we'd have been in!". N then pick 9th or 10th in a draft where we could've been picking 1-4.

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