Pre Draft Discussion

[Kerrsed]

Pretty sure Doncic fanboys also voted for Trump who are happy to watch poor children separated from parents

QUIT.

[kennydorglas]

Damn

[AtheJ415]

Their volume was not small. 3 3s a game is high for a big man, particularly a center which is what Williams played at Arizona. If you are going to go that route, then nearly all college stats should be thrown out the door. None of the bigs in this lottery shot more 3s than that a game. Bagley shot 1.8. Jackson shot 2.7. None of them. So I guess we should ignore whatever any of them shot as entirely useless?

It obviously means something. Stats in college aren't meaningless. Sorry. You're just wrong here. Hitting 45% of his 3s means something, even over just 1 attempt a game, as opposed to hitting 5% of his 3s. You are literally sitting here saying they are meaningless and it's beyond dumb. Also, his workouts have shown him hitting at a high clip. His scouting reports don't have an issue with his release. And pointing out a couple examples where that didn't pan out doesn't really prove much. Channing Frye sucked at 3s in college. Marc Gasol sucked at 3s for nearly his entire career until 2 years ago. Jason Kidd had great rotation but could never hit 3s. There is a laundry list of guys in every statistical area who panned out or didn't in an unexpected way.

What we CAN go on is how they played so far, their workouts, and their actual releases to see how we think they will shoot at the next level. All 3 point to him being at least capable/not somebody you can just leave open.

Do you actually read my posts? I literally never said in any post that all stats in college are meaningless. They're incredibly valuable, but they need to be looked at in context. My claim, which you'd know is 100% legitimate if you had a shred of knowledge about how statistics work, is that a sample size of 40 shots in 37 games (i.e. context) means nearly nothing in regards to how good of a shooter he is. It's obviously better than 5%, but it still means very little. I don't get how you can say me picking out examples of wings that haven't translated as shooters doesn't mean much, then counter with 2 of your own examples out of the small handful of centers that developed a 3 point shot.

I've never said he can't be a shooter or that his form sucks, only that I have very little reason to believe that he'll be a good shooter based on what I've seen from him in college and the volume he shot from 3. I'm sorry that you can't comprehend that, but I'd appreciate if you'd stop setting up strawmen from my posts and quoting me about how "beyond dumb" the most basic principle of statistics is. If you want to keep pushing that he's a good shooter, be my guest.

You literally said Derrick Williams had a low volume of 3s when he was one of the leading NCAA 3 point shooting attempts of all Centers on the year. I read your post. It was just flat garbage. And what I pointed out, if you followed your own reading comprehension logic, is that IF I TAKE YOUR ARGUMENT ON ITS FACE VALUE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO THROW OUT ALL COLLEGE STATS BECAUSE THEY WOULD ALL BECOME NONSENSE. I don't need to read you saying they are nonsense to conclude this fact given you are saying even a guy shooting on high volume like Derrick Williams is irrelevant. You literally said their stats are irrelevant on low volume, and then pointed to guys who have high volume as proof. You need to comprehend what YOU type before sitting there all pissy about the fact that I found the obvious nonsense in it. And you didn't say "nearly nothing", you said "irrelevant" and "means absolutely nothing".

Here is your quote in reference to Derrick Williams:

"Yeah that's my point.... All of them took double the 3s, if not more, on similar percentage and it meant absolutely nothing for their shot transitioning because the volume was still small. Why take an even smaller volume's percentage at face value? "

So again, if one of the leading 3 point shooters in the country for a C at 3 a game, who shoots more than all of the bigs in the lottery of this draft, means "absolutely nothing" for their shot, to quote you, then how on earth are you trying to say their shooting percentages somehow have meaning now?

[Blackification]

Luka seems like a great guy and a really good player, if Ayton wasn't there i'd love to take him first, I hope he proves a lot of his doubters wrong. Same with Ayton, did people talk this much **** about Simmons?

[jredsaz]

Read on Twitter

Looks like we can get into that 12 or 13 range with 16 and 31 if we want to. In a vacuum I make that move for Myles Brides in a heart beat. I wonder what other options they would have with 16 tho? Kemba trade? DAngelo trade?

[Kdab]

Thursday can't come fast enough.

[darealjuice]

Their volume was not small. 3 3s a game is high for a big man, particularly a center which is what Williams played at Arizona. If you are going to go that route, then nearly all college stats should be thrown out the door. None of the bigs in this lottery shot more 3s than that a game. Bagley shot 1.8. Jackson shot 2.7. None of them. So I guess we should ignore whatever any of them shot as entirely useless?

It obviously means something. Stats in college aren't meaningless. Sorry. You're just wrong here. Hitting 45% of his 3s means something, even over just 1 attempt a game, as opposed to hitting 5% of his 3s. You are literally sitting here saying they are meaningless and it's beyond dumb. Also, his workouts have shown him hitting at a high clip. His scouting reports don't have an issue with his release. And pointing out a couple examples where that didn't pan out doesn't really prove much. Channing Frye sucked at 3s in college. Marc Gasol sucked at 3s for nearly his entire career until 2 years ago. Jason Kidd had great rotation but could never hit 3s. There is a laundry list of guys in every statistical area who panned out or didn't in an unexpected way.

What we CAN go on is how they played so far, their workouts, and their actual releases to see how we think they will shoot at the next level. All 3 point to him being at least capable/not somebody you can just leave open.

Do you actually read my posts? I literally never said in any post that all stats in college are meaningless. They're incredibly valuable, but they need to be looked at in context. My claim, which you'd know is 100% legitimate if you had a shred of knowledge about how statistics work, is that a sample size of 40 shots in 37 games (i.e. context) means nearly nothing in regards to how good of a shooter he is. It's obviously better than 5%, but it still means very little. I don't get how you can say me picking out examples of wings that haven't translated as shooters doesn't mean much, then counter with 2 of your own examples out of the small handful of centers that developed a 3 point shot.

I've never said he can't be a shooter or that his form sucks, only that I have very little reason to believe that he'll be a good shooter based on what I've seen from him in college and the volume he shot from 3. I'm sorry that you can't comprehend that, but I'd appreciate if you'd stop setting up strawmen from my posts and quoting me about how "beyond dumb" the most basic principle of statistics is. If you want to keep pushing that he's a good shooter, be my guest.

You literally said Derrick Williams had a low volume of 3s when he was one of the leading NCAA 3 point shooting attempts of all Centers on the year. I read your post. It was just flat garbage. And what I pointed out, if you followed your own reading comprehension logic, is that IF I TAKE YOUR ARGUMENT ON ITS FACE VALUE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO THROW OUT ALL COLLEGE STATS BECAUSE THEY WOULD ALL BECOME NONSENSE. I don't need to read you saying they are nonsense to conclude this fact given you are saying even a guy shooting on high volume like Derrick Williams is irrelevant. You literally said their stats are irrelevant on low volume, and then pointed to guys who have high volume as proof. You need to comprehend what YOU type before sitting there all pissy about the fact that I found the obvious nonsense in it. And you didn't say "nearly nothing", you said "irrelevant" and "means absolutely nothing".

Here is your quote in reference to Derrick Williams:

"Yeah that's my point.... All of them took double the 3s, if not more, on similar percentage and it meant absolutely nothing for their shot transitioning because the volume was still small. Why take an even smaller volume's percentage at face value? "

So again, if one of the leading 3 point shooters in the country for a C at 3 a game, who shoots more than all of the bigs in the lottery of this draft, means "absolutely nothing" for their shot, to quote you, then how on earth are you trying to say their shooting percentages somehow have meaning now?

Derrick williams shot a total of 74 3s in the season, so yeah that’s absolutely not a high volume lol. It was not “3 a game” like you continue to claim, so stop making up bull. You clearly have no idea how to have a civil debate, so we’re done here.

[Kerrsed]

Luka seems like a great guy and a really good player, if Ayton wasn't there i'd love to take him first, I hope he proves a lot of his doubters wrong. Same with Ayton, did people talk this much **** about Simmons?

It was the same thing back then, there was a huge debate with the Sixers (And Lakers) on who to take #1, Simmons or Ingram.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1421939

[ATTL]

Luka seems like a great guy and a really good player, if Ayton wasn't there i'd love to take him first, I hope he proves a lot of his doubters wrong. Same with Ayton, did people talk this much **** about Simmons?

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw
Givony article

[Revived]

Edit: Not even worth responding to such an ignorant message.

[Mjee]

I can’t wait till Thursday afternoon !!!!!

[Blackification]

https://sports.yahoo.com/shadow-world-deandre-ayton-survived-treacherous-path-become-nbas-top-pick-040044927.html

Wow this gives a lot of background on Ayton, what a story. Hope he finds some stability with the Suns, now i'm even more excited to think what he can become when he can fully focus on basketball. We have some issues with performance, but it does seem like the people are happy here at least

[Blackification]

Luka seems like a great guy and a really good player, if Ayton wasn't there i'd love to take him first, I hope he proves a lot of his doubters wrong. Same with Ayton, did people talk this much **** about Simmons?

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw
Givony article

spewing the same bs, I remember talk about Simmons and his effort and lack of defense and success in the NCAA, what a load of **** that turned out to be, I expect similar once Ayton starts turning these modern day soft ass bigs into BBQ chicken

[Blackification]

Deandre Ayton, 7-1 freshman center, Arizona. “Second-best player I’ve scouted in my career next to LeBron James. Legit 7-foot, runs the floor like a deer, blocks shots, plays above the rim, can come away from the basket. You don’t see a lot of true centers anymore, but he has showed he can hit the midrange shot and pass the ball out of the post. He’s a willing passer, so if you start doubling this guy, he can hurt you. If there’s a concern, it’s his work ethic. Will he push himself hard enough?”

Aaron Holiday, 6-1 junior guard, UCLA. “One of my favorites, man. That dude is Mighty Mouse. Huge balls. Built like a brick house. Obviously comes from a great family that has had success in the NBA. His decision-making needs to get better. He’s a little turnover prone. Biggest problem is that he’s small, but there’s no way that guy doesn’t make it. That shooting ability is the great equalizer. It’s just where the league is right now. He needs to be a point, but right now he’s a scorer. He’ll be a really capable backup point guard.”

Troy Brown, 6-7 freshman guard, Oregon. “One of the youngest players in the draft. Really, really versatile. He had kind of an underwhelming year at Oregon. Came in with a big reputation. High character guy. He does a little bit of everything, but I don’t know what he does at an elite level. Has size, knows how to play, can pass. He’s super young, so it might take a year or two to figure it out. People are touting him as somebody who can defend, but he’s going to have to really work at it because he’s not a naturally elite athlete. I thought he was tougher than he is.”

https://theathletic.com/395660/2018/06/18/finch-returns-nba-scouts-give-their-brutally-honest-takes-about-this-years-top-draft-prospects/

For those that don't have The Athletic

[gaspar]

I have no idea how someone can watch DeAndre Ayton and think of Jahlil Okafor or Greg Monroe. That's like watching Steph Curry and thinking of JJ Redick.

Yeah, if someone wants to compare Ayton to an all offense/no defense big man, there are much better examples like... Amare.

[Revived]

Deandre Ayton, 7-1 freshman center, Arizona. “Second-best player I’ve scouted in my career next to LeBron James. Legit 7-foot, runs the floor like a deer, blocks shots, plays above the rim, can come away from the basket. You don’t see a lot of true centers anymore, but he has showed he can hit the midrange shot and pass the ball out of the post. He’s a willing passer, so if you start doubling this guy, he can hurt you. If there’s a concern, it’s his work ethic. Will he push himself hard enough?”

https://theathletic.com/395660/2018/06/18/finch-returns-nba-scouts-give-their-brutally-honest-takes-about-this-years-top-draft-prospects/

For those that don't have The Athletic

Damn the most important attribute of them all...

[Bjorpa]

I'm extremely excited for whoever we draft

- Ayton (90% certain): We get a mobile big who can dominate offensively and provide scoring we desperately need.

- Doncic (8% chance): We get a great playmaker who can provide a difficult offensive matchup for the opposition, next to Booker's shooting. Also spaces the floor for Jackson to get more room to cut.

- JJJ (2%) Provides defence and spacing. If Bender comes good, we have a frontcourt it will be difficult to score on with him, Bender and Jackson.

[Revived]

Rachel is a whore.

If only

In a game of Marry / **** / Kill ... I'd **** and Kill Rachel but I'd marry Lindsey Smith.

Lindsey seems like a cool chick. You could play video games with her, go to the gym with her, and she'd get along with your friends. She's a keeper.

Rachel seems like a bitch. She's the kinda girl that gets drunk off two mixed drinks and then tried to start a fight with the bouncer. Then (after she gets you both kicked out of the bar), she asks you why you didn't beat up the bouncer. The next morning, she changes her profile photo on facebook and posts some passive agressive **** about you.

(Yes, I've had experience with both).

All you said could be true but Rachel also seems like the one that would be wild in bed...if you're into that.

[ATTL]

Deandre Ayton, 7-1 freshman center, Arizona. “Second-best player I’ve scouted in my career next to LeBron James. Legit 7-foot, runs the floor like a deer, blocks shots, plays above the rim, can come away from the basket. You don’t see a lot of true centers anymore, but he has showed he can hit the midrange shot and pass the ball out of the post. He’s a willing passer, so if you start doubling this guy, he can hurt you. If there’s a concern, it’s his work ethic. Will he push himself hard enough?”

https://theathletic.com/395660/2018/06/18/finch-returns-nba-scouts-give-their-brutally-honest-takes-about-this-years-top-draft-prospects/

For those that don't have The Athletic

Damn the most important attribute of them all...

Thats the first time I've read anything questioning his work ethic.

[carey]

Yeah, if someone wants to compare Ayton to an all offense/no defense big man, there are much better examples like... Amare.

I think he has a lot of Amare in him. I've made a couple posts suggesting we can definitely recreate 7SOL with Ayton in the Amare role, Booker in the JJ role and Jackson in the Marion role. We just need our Nash... It's too bad 2X MVP PGs are so hard to come by.