Stein: Sources say Hornacek's job is "under immediate threat"

[thamadkant]

Yeah, I dont even think Hornacek coaches anymore.

He just follows the rotation plan he has set earlier in the day and just tells everyone to look for the open 3pter and jack away.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I dont even think Hornacek coaches anymore.

He just follows the rotation plan he has set earlier in the day and just tells everyone to look for the open 3pter and jack away.

Yeah, ok, sure thing. He hasn't had much practice time, which he has needed. We had played the most games of the year after our recent stretch (still maybe have) so he needed time. And all the injuries to the centers, Bledsoe and the Morris situation have made this year almost impossible to have any success.

[thamadkant]

Not once today did I really see a consistent strategy other than pass the ball around the perimeter or drive and draw the man and kickout to an open 3pt shooter.. which is better than usual... I could of done that to be honest.

[TASTIC]

Not once today did I really see a consistent strategy other than pass the ball around the perimeter or drive and draw the man and kickout to an open 3pt shooter.. which is better than usual... I could of done that to be honest.

How much of that is on the players though? Nobody seems to be able to run a play, regardless of what Hornacek does.

I taught my wife how to run a pick and roll and she hates basketball. These guys don't want to learn or they simply aren't registering with Hornacek.

As others have said, he's a lame duck coach. I'm sure if you gave him a roster of Price and PJ guys who play hard we'd win 45 games instead of 25.

I'm giving him some leeway here but I'm still annoyed at some of his line-ups and how he takes players out when they're hot or he doesn't play Warren 30mins EVERY night as he should be. My only thought was that he's been told by McD to play PJ to improve trade value?

[bwgood77]

Not once today did I really see a consistent strategy other than pass the ball around the perimeter or drive and draw the man and kickout to an open 3pt shooter.. which is better than usual... I could of done that to be honest.

How much of that is on the players though? Nobody seems to be able to run a play, regardless of what Hornacek does.

I taught my wife how to run a pick and roll and she hates basketball. These guys don't want to learn or they simply aren't registering with Hornacek.

As others have said, he's a lame duck coach. I'm sure if you gave him a roster of Price and PJ guys who play hard we'd win 45 games instead of 25.

I'm giving him some leeway here but I'm still annoyed at some of his line-ups and how he takes players out when they're hot or he doesn't play Warren 30mins EVERY night as he should be. My only thought was that he's been told by McD to play PJ to improve trade value?

I think part of it is yes, to play PJ for trade value, but he is the ONLY guy who does anything whatsoever on defense, and without him out there we get destroyed on that side.

[TASTIC]

^Agreed, Price is the other guy too.

Honestly I wasn't expecting 12-12-2 from Chandler, but I expected more than just shouting for every dunk and stupid fouls when he gets frustrated.

I wanted a more mobile Kurt Thomas, a respected vet who leads by example and shouts orders on defence.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

If team morale and energy is improved the rest of the way, I'd be fine extending Hornacek another couple years. I know, I know, I've been on the firing line bandwagon since October, but some stability might be a good thing. The players seem to like him, he stuck it out when we let go of his assistants, and the young guys have been getting more (deserved) minutes recently. I'm willing to see how this goes.

[bwgood77]

If team morale and energy is improved the rest of the way, I'd be fine extending Hornacek another couple years. I know, I know, I've been on the firing line bandwagon since October, but some stability might be a good thing. The players seem to like him, he stuck it out when we let go of his assistants, and the young guys have been getting more (deserved) minutes recently. I'm willing to see how this goes.

Zero chance of that. Slight chance he gets his option picked up (to tie his fate to McD's) and given a chance with a finalized change in roster from what he inherited after it constant turnover with lack of chemistry, disgruntled players and everything.

Doubtful, but often times, a new coach isn't hired when the GM becomes a lame duck and I highly doubt McD will get an extension. So if it doesn't turn around next year, they bring in a new GM who picks his own coach.

[AtheJ415]

Not once today did I really see a consistent strategy other than pass the ball around the perimeter or drive and draw the man and kickout to an open 3pt shooter.. which is better than usual... I could of done that to be honest.

How much of that is on the players though? Nobody seems to be able to run a play, regardless of what Hornacek does.

I taught my wife how to run a pick and roll and she hates basketball. These guys don't want to learn or they simply aren't registering with Hornacek.

As others have said, he's a lame duck coach. I'm sure if you gave him a roster of Price and PJ guys who play hard we'd win 45 games instead of 25.

I'm giving him some leeway here but I'm still annoyed at some of his line-ups and how he takes players out when they're hot or he doesn't play Warren 30mins EVERY night as he should be. My only thought was that he's been told by McD to play PJ to improve trade value?

This logic is nonsense imo. The coach's #1 job is to get through to the players. X's and O's are just a small part of being a coach. There is no defending what Jeff has done this year. You can write it off as a bad year, but he is a big part of the problem this season. He also does not put them in positions to succeed with the rotations he uses.

[kennydorglas]

As long as our young studs (Booker&Warren) are playing huge minutes (25+ every night)... i'm not gonna complain about Hornacek.

Next year will be a very different story tho

[AtheJ415]

As long as our young studs (Booker&Warren) are playing huge minutes (25+ every night)... i'm not gonna complain about Hornacek.

Next year will be a very different story tho

I agree. I'm just upset that they can't seem to. They do one game, and then sit the next. Warren gets 29 as a starter then is benched and sees limited minutes. Sometimes they come off the bench playing 30 minutes and sometimes they see 15-20. They need the consistency, and they need the defensive film imo. Every time they make a mistake defensively is an opportunity to learn in the film room the next day. That's the best way for them to learn imo.

[Damkac]

I wish we have a new coach now. Not to win games but to help young players develop.

[AtheJ415]

I wish we have a new coach now. Not to win games but to help young players develop.

Well, I will say I think Hornacek does a good job with the individual stuff. I see our individual players improving skill wise while he's here, whether it's shooting, handles, etc.. I just don't see the team stuff, like team defense, and offensive IQ/execution, improving at all over the past 3 years. That is just my opinion though.

Like you watch college teams even and you see substantial growth among the great coaches as the year goes on. You see it with great NBA coaches too. I don't see that with us, and while we've had a lot of turnover, even given that and narrowing down the season, I don't see the growth.

[saintEscaton]

I wish we have a new coach now. Not to win games but to help young players develop.

Well, I will say I think Hornacek does a good job with the individual stuff. I see our individual players improving skill wise while he's here, whether it's shooting, handles, etc.. I just don't see the team stuff, like team defense, and offensive IQ/execution, improving at all over the past 3 years. That is just my opinion though.

Like you watch college teams even and you see substantial growth among the great coaches as the year goes on. You see it with great NBA coaches too. I don't see that with us, and while we've had a lot of turnover, even given that and narrowing down the season, I don't see the growth.

He's still a glorified shooting coach IMO who is still living off of his glory days as a fan favorite Suns legend.

[bwgood77]

I wish we have a new coach now. Not to win games but to help young players develop.

Well, I will say I think Hornacek does a good job with the individual stuff. I see our individual players improving skill wise while he's here, whether it's shooting, handles, etc.. I just don't see the team stuff, like team defense, and offensive IQ/execution, improving at all over the past 3 years. That is just my opinion though.

Like you watch college teams even and you see substantial growth among the great coaches as the year goes on. You see it with great NBA coaches too. I don't see that with us, and while we've had a lot of turnover, even given that and narrowing down the season, I don't see the growth.

He's still a glorified shooting coach IMO who is still living off of his glory days as a fan favorite Suns legend.

The funny thing is people call him a fan favorite player of Suns legend and he really wasn't that. He was just a solid smart player. I think he'd look much better as a coach if he had been coaching a roster that had any sort of continuity of players. I also think he would look MUCH better this year if he wasn't a lame duck who had demands to try and STILL get the team to the playoffs.

[In Len We Trust]

Can somebody explain to me why Hornacek had success with the Knight-Booker-Warren-PJ-Tyson lineup and then barely used it the next game and now doesn't use it at all? Is it tanking? Normally, I would say yes but due to his track record of rediculously stupid moves I have to assume that he thinks changing the lineup every other game is the answer to our problems.

[AtheJ415]

Well, I will say I think Hornacek does a good job with the individual stuff. I see our individual players improving skill wise while he's here, whether it's shooting, handles, etc.. I just don't see the team stuff, like team defense, and offensive IQ/execution, improving at all over the past 3 years. That is just my opinion though.

Like you watch college teams even and you see substantial growth among the great coaches as the year goes on. You see it with great NBA coaches too. I don't see that with us, and while we've had a lot of turnover, even given that and narrowing down the season, I don't see the growth.

He's still a glorified shooting coach IMO who is still living off of his glory days as a fan favorite Suns legend.

The funny thing is people call him a fan favorite player of Suns legend and he really wasn't that. He was just a solid smart player. I think he'd look much better as a coach if he had been coaching a roster that had any sort of continuity of players. I also think he would look MUCH better this year if he wasn't a lame duck who had demands to try and STILL get the team to the playoffs.

I think he'd look much better this year if he managed the rotations with some sense of basic logic. What he's done with the rotations and situational subs this year is criminal. No coach in the NBA subs in Tucker for Booker and Warren when you must score or you lose. He does that stuff all the time. I'm not convinced he really knows the strengths of the personnel like he should.

[bwgood77]

He's still a glorified shooting coach IMO who is still living off of his glory days as a fan favorite Suns legend.

The funny thing is people call him a fan favorite player of Suns legend and he really wasn't that. He was just a solid smart player. I think he'd look much better as a coach if he had been coaching a roster that had any sort of continuity of players. I also think he would look MUCH better this year if he wasn't a lame duck who had demands to try and STILL get the team to the playoffs.

I think he'd look much better this year if he managed the rotations with some sense of basic logic. What he's done with the rotations and situational subs this year is criminal. No coach in the NBA subs in Tucker for Booker and Warren when you must score or you lose. He does that stuff all the time. I'm not convinced he really knows the strengths of the personnel like he should.

I'm pretty sure he has a better grasp on the strengths and weaknesses of our players than armchair coaches like many here. Sometimes we get so deep in a hole while those guys play because they lack D, and when your great offense doesn't outweigh how bad your defense is, it is difficult to climb out of holes. Ideally PJ is out there at the 4 while all of our scorers are in there....the team plays with more heart and energy when he is in there. It's as simple as that. Tonight if Tyson could show up and battle for some boards with Whiteside (if he plays) that would be nice, but otherwise, we might just want to go with Leuer at the 5 to take Whiteside out of the game. We just need to make sure we don't allow them to get offensive rebounds. We are unlikely to get many offensive boards.

[AtheJ415]

The funny thing is people call him a fan favorite player of Suns legend and he really wasn't that. He was just a solid smart player. I think he'd look much better as a coach if he had been coaching a roster that had any sort of continuity of players. I also think he would look MUCH better this year if he wasn't a lame duck who had demands to try and STILL get the team to the playoffs.

I think he'd look much better this year if he managed the rotations with some sense of basic logic. What he's done with the rotations and situational subs this year is criminal. No coach in the NBA subs in Tucker for Booker and Warren when you must score or you lose. He does that stuff all the time. I'm not convinced he really knows the strengths of the personnel like he should.

I'm pretty sure he has a better grasp on the strengths and weaknesses of our players than armchair coaches like many here. Sometimes we get so deep in a hole while those guys play because they lack D, and when your great offense doesn't outweigh how bad your defense is, it is difficult to climb out of holes. Ideally PJ is out there at the 4 while all of our scorers are in there....the team plays with more heart and energy when he is in there. It's as simple as that. Tonight if Tyson could show up and battle for some boards with Whiteside (if he plays) that would be nice, but otherwise, we might just want to go with Leuer at the 5 to take Whiteside out of the game. We just need to make sure we don't allow them to get offensive rebounds. We are unlikely to get many offensive boards.

If there are 10 seconds left and you are down 2 with the ball, and you sub in PJ Tucker to remove Warren and leave Booker on the bench, you don't have a great grasp of the strengths of the players, you are trying to lose, or you are simply stupid. If you have come back to pull within 17 and then pull a hot shooter for Tucker, you are oblivious to the scenario. Jeff makes decisions like that this year. It's not an offense for defense scenario there, and I think Jeff is a smart guy so I don't think it's the last scenario, but he has 1000% hurt us with these types of subs all year. He has made it so we go from a small chance of climbing out of holes to no chance.

And the numbers just don't support what he's done with the rotations overall. The numbers suggest his so called defenders' lack of offense hurt us more overall than our youngen's defense, and by a lot. I get trying to set an example for players, so if it was just the overall rotations I could buy it, but the situational subs don't fall into that line of thinking. When you must score or lose, you don't make defensive subs, when you must defend or lose, you don't put in offensive guys, and when you have a big lead and your star guy in Bledsoe is sitting, you don't put a lineup with no spacing, making everything harder for worse offensive players. He's been bad this year. Really, really bad.

The fact is the defenders not defending is as big a reason we are in holes as playing the young, bad defenders. Tyson has been our worst defender this year. Price has never had a single season where a team defended better with him on the court, and he's been playing for 10 years. Our defenders simply aren't good enough at defense to warrant this type of minutes tradeoff.

[bwgood77]

I think he'd look much better this year if he managed the rotations with some sense of basic logic. What he's done with the rotations and situational subs this year is criminal. No coach in the NBA subs in Tucker for Booker and Warren when you must score or you lose. He does that stuff all the time. I'm not convinced he really knows the strengths of the personnel like he should.

I'm pretty sure he has a better grasp on the strengths and weaknesses of our players than armchair coaches like many here. Sometimes we get so deep in a hole while those guys play because they lack D, and when your great offense doesn't outweigh how bad your defense is, it is difficult to climb out of holes. Ideally PJ is out there at the 4 while all of our scorers are in there....the team plays with more heart and energy when he is in there. It's as simple as that. Tonight if Tyson could show up and battle for some boards with Whiteside (if he plays) that would be nice, but otherwise, we might just want to go with Leuer at the 5 to take Whiteside out of the game. We just need to make sure we don't allow them to get offensive rebounds. We are unlikely to get many offensive boards.

If there are 10 seconds left and you are down 2 with the ball, and you sub in PJ Tucker to remove Warren and leave Booker on the bench, you don't have a great grasp of the strengths of the players, you are trying to lose, or you are simply stupid. If you have come back to pull within 17 and then pull a hot shooter for Tucker, you are oblivious to the scenario. Jeff makes decisions like that this year. It's not an offense for defense scenario there, and I think Jeff is a smart guy so I don't think it's the last scenario, but he has 1000% hurt us with these types of subs all year. He has made it so we go from a small chance of climbing out of holes to no chance.

And the numbers just don't support what he's done with the rotations overall. The numbers suggest his so called defenders' lack of offense hurt us more overall than our youngen's defense, and by a lot. I get trying to set an example for players, so if it was just the overall rotations I could buy it, but the situational subs don't fall into that line of thinking. When you must score or lose, you don't make defensive subs, when you must defend or lose, you don't put in offensive guys, and when you have a big lead and your star guy in Bledsoe is sitting, you don't put a lineup with no spacing, making everything harder for worse offensive players. He's been bad this year. Really, really bad.

The fact is the defenders not defending is as big a reason we are in holes as playing the young, bad defenders. Tyson has been our worst defender this year. Price has never had a single season where a team defended better with him on the court, and he's been playing for 10 years. Our defenders simply aren't good enough at defense to warrant this type of minutes tradeoff.

I'm not sure which specific scenarios you are talking about but there are a lot of variables to the equation. It's not all as simple as you like to think it is.

I think there may be some plays we have ready to use the young guys, or particularly Booker at this point, but in the early season it was going to be Bledsoe, Knight and Tucker that have a lot more rehearsal and experience in running plays. Sometimes these plays only have maybe a 30% chance of working out, and with Warren it would have and probably would have been less. But often times it's just Knight making dumb turnovers at the end, or even Bledsoe.