Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 2: End This Knightmare!

raferfenix · Post #141 » by **raferfenix** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:08 pm

Hey Suns fans, curious if you think the Bucks might pursue Tyson Chandler?

Our team is young but with Giannis emerging there is a greater need to get him help (especially come playoff time).

Also worth noting that his agent (Jeff Schwartz) has deep / weird ties to the organization via Jason Kidd.

Not sure exactly what we would be willing to trade for Chandler or what it would take to entice Phoenix. What do you think?

AtheJ415 · Post #142 » by **AtheJ415** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:32 pm

raferfenix wrote:Hey Suns fans, curious if you think the Bucks might pursue Tyson Chandler?

Our team is young but with Giannis emerging there is a greater need to get him help (especially come playoff time).

Also worth noting that his agent (Jeff Schwartz) has deep / weird ties to the organization via Jason Kidd.

Not sure exactly what we would be willing to trade for Chandler or what it would take to entice Phoenix. What do you think?

The problem is Milwaukee's cap situation. I am open to trading Chandler, but Watson and McDonough value his eperience. I think moving Chandler for picks or youngsters and drafting a backup for Len this year is the way to go.

Using the trade machine it seems that we basically have to trade Tyson to you for an outgoing $12 mil. Looking at your guys, the only ones who are realistic and work are Monroe or Henson. I think Phoenix would require picks to take on Monroe's deal. Henson I think could be a straight swap but I'm not sure Milwaukee would want to trade him for Chandler.

I think what would be preferable to Phoenix would be a 3 way. Chandler for Henson but with Henson going to a 3rd team and picks going to Phoenix, say a protected 1st from the team getting Henson and a reverse protected 2nd from Milwaukee.

realEAST · Post #143 » by **realEAST** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:08 pm

I understand decision to keep on youth, more so respect it, because I think you really have interesting mix of talent. But we are kind of entertaining ourselves putting together offers for Jimmy.
I'll just copy here my reasoning from discussion on Bulls board on why would it make sense (they are Suns, ofc

"Why is other question, and it is not given that Suns would go for it, sure. but Jimmy is along Cousins best (quasi)available option (for good offer), and their FO has shown initiative to try and speed rebuild even before, with lesser odds of getting, frankly, a worse player (Aldridge).

Besides, he is a great fit there, along Bledsoe and Booker, brings exactly what they need, and if we take on Chandler contract as a part of the deal, they would have enough space to go after proven PF in a market where there are several very good options, even besides Griffin who is imo staying put. (Ibaka, ex.)

Also, they do keep several good pieces for the future in Booker, Chriss, Len and Ulis, and still keep Miami 2018 pick, which could easily be lotto at least. Not to mention playing really meaningful basketball could help their youngsters develop."

Post #144 » by **GimmeDat** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:03 pm

Just chiming in as well, because I was discussing this over on the Bulls board as well, I think this is a strong offer from both sides. Note that it wouldn't be done at the deadline, but more around draft time, because we'd have to wait for Wade and Rondo to opt out to start tanking.

If more obvious suitors like Boston and Minnesota don't feel like throwing the lot at Butler, Warren+Bender+1st would easily out do their proposals. Better yet, it keeps your team pretty deep and balanced, and immediately successful.

Bledsoe/Knight/Ulis
Booker/Barbosa
Butler/Tucker
Chriss/Dudley
Chandler/Len

DaleyBlind · Post #145 » by **DaleyBlind** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:13 pm

I would do Warren, Chriss or Bender, 18 Miami 1st on draft night.

Wouldn't even think about moving that 17 1st for him though

Saberestar · Post #146 » by **Saberestar** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:22 pm

GimmeDat wrote:Just chiming in as well, because I was discussing this over on the Bulls board as well, I think this is a strong offer from both sides. Note that it wouldn't be done at the deadline, but more around draft time, because we'd have to wait for Wade and Rondo to opt out to start tanking.

If more obvious suitors like Boston and Minnesota don't feel like throwing the lot at Butler, Warren+Bender+1st would easily out do their proposals. Better yet, it keeps your team pretty deep and balanced, and immediately successful.

Bledsoe/Knight/Ulis
Booker/Barbosa
Butler/Tucker
Chriss/Dudley
Chandler/Len

I wouldn't make this trade.

Warren + Bender + 1st is too much for Butler. I like him, but not at this price.

Saberestar · Post #147 » by **Saberestar** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:26 pm

I'd offer Knight + Chriss + Miami 2018 pick for Jimmy Butler.

AtheJ415 · Post #148 » by **AtheJ415** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:30 pm

I wouldn't trade for Butler. With GS dominating the West for at least the next 2 years what are we realistically going to accomplish with him? He's 27, so we're talking about contending when he's 29. That isn't awful, but I would rather keep the youngsters and go for a longer term window than trade for a really good player who is borderline for us age-wise and who we likely aren't contenders with anyways.

Saberestar · Post #149 » by **Saberestar** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:34 pm

raferfenix wrote:Hey Suns fans, curious if you think the Bucks might pursue Tyson Chandler?

Our team is young but with Giannis emerging there is a greater need to get him help (especially come playoff time).

Also worth noting that his agent (Jeff Schwartz) has deep / weird ties to the organization via Jason Kidd.

Not sure exactly what we would be willing to trade for Chandler or what it would take to entice Phoenix. What do you think?

I don't think that the Bucks want Chandler, they have three well paid and younger centers on their roster. Henson, Monroe and Plumlee are paid over $10M per year and they bring differents skillset, Kidd has a lot of options to choose depending on matchups/needs.

DaleyBlind · Post #150 » by **DaleyBlind** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:44 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:I wouldn't trade for Butler. With GS dominating the West for at least the next 2 years what are we realistically going to accomplish with him? He's 27, so we're talking about contending when he's 29. That isn't awful, but I would rather keep the youngsters and go for a longer term window than trade for a really good player who is borderline for us age-wise and who we likely aren't contenders with anyways.

We could then trade Knight/Bender and our 17 pick/19 1st on draft night for Cousins

Bledsoe/Ullis
Booker/Barbosa
Butler/????
Cousins/????
Chandler/Len

That would be a fun team to watch

thamadkant · Post #151 » by **thamadkant** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:48 pm

Saberestar wrote:I'd offer Knight + Chriss + Miami 2018 pick for Jimmy Butler.

And this an example of how team fans sees their players at a much higher light than reality.

Butler is a top 15 player who plays both sides at an elite level....

You need to trade a potential star to get a legit star. It would take Warren or Booker plus a pick... Or protected pick.

thamadkant · Post #152 » by **thamadkant** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:50 pm

I would only trade for Butler or Cousins assuming both are coming to the Suns.

Getting one of them is not enough... Unless Suns rest them for the rest of the season... Get a top 3 pick.

Use that pick to get another legit star.

DaleyBlind · Post #153 » by **DaleyBlind** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:54 pm

1UPZ wrote:I would only trade for Butler or Cousins assuming both are coming to the Suns.

Getting one of them is not enough... Unless Suns rest them for the rest of the season... Get a top 3 pick.

Use that pick to get another legit star.

100% agree.

realEAST · Post #154 » by **realEAST** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:55 pm

Saberestar wrote:I'd offer Knight + Chriss + Miami 2018 pick for Jimmy Butler.

I'd say this is pretty lowball offer for an already top15 player on the best deal in league, on a team which doenst fit his talent ideally and who could thrive even more in better situation.

Player you dont want, good but very raw prospect and pick two years away, not so sure it gets it done.

More so, since he is signed long term, and even if we suck this year, we could rebuild quickly with two good lotto picks, and fortunate FA splash.

I get your reasons not to rush it, as I said, but given *McDonough preferences, it shouldn't be out of picture, thats all.

realEAST · Post #155 » by **realEAST** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:56 pm

BTW, guys, thanks for all the feedback.

Saberestar · Post #156 » by **Saberestar** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:02 am

I don't know if this has been commented before but Gambo said a few days ago that the Suns don't like anyone on the Kings roster (anyone including Cousins because he is a headcase) and Knight is not gonna be traded there if not a third team is involved.

He said that the Blazers are scouting our team (per reliable sources) and probably are interested in Chandler or Tucker because they want defense and rebounding.

The last thing he said is that a team that can be a good trade option for Brandon Knight are the Sixers and he named Bayless, Stauskas, Okafor and Noel like players who are available in a trade before the deadline.

realEAST · Post #157 » by **realEAST** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:13 am

1UPZ wrote:I would only trade for Butler or Cousins assuming both are coming to the Suns.

Getting one of them is not enough... Unless Suns rest them for the rest of the season... Get a top 3 pick.

Use that pick to get another legit star.

If I can play fantasy with your roster a bit, my idea was to do Butler, McDermott and if you want Portis for Warren, Bender, 2017 pick and Chandler, which would open you enough cap space to cover Len cap hold and allow you to sign Ibaka. Now even Knight might buy in his 6th man role, which is his role going forward on any contender imo. That would leave you with

Bledsoe-Booker-Butler-Ibaka-Len
Knight-McDermott-Dudley-Chriss-Williams
Ulis

(having Booker and Butler on wings I think allows for McDermott and Dudley to come off the bench, playing with one of them each time)

and you still have assets to tweak it in the way you like it or find neccesary. I think that Heat pick could be very good in 2018, prob lotto.

Personally, getting to trade for both Cousins and Butler doesnt seem that realistic imo, it would take a robbery in one deal, if you'd still keep Booker.

Post #158 » by **lilfishi22** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:22 am

Getting Butler and Cousins through multiple trades would be a massive haul which I too think is unrealistic, at least in one season anyway.

I like some of the proposals for Jimmy but I also don't think he plays a position of our biggest need. Booker, for better or worse, is our 1-2 of the future. Butler could play next to him but I don't think it's a wise trade choice.

We're in need of a legit big man and Cousins to me is still the grand prize. If we're giving up a crap ton of assets, I'd rather pair Booker/Bledsoe with Cousins than Butler. And that's no knock on Butler who I readily admit is a top 15-20 guy. Just a matter of need and fit.

DaleyBlind · Post #159 » by **DaleyBlind** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:32 am

would Bledsoe/Bender/Chriss/Knight/Warren/Len 17 1st/18 heat 1st/19 1st/ 21 Heat Pick.

Would those assets be enough to get Butler and Cousins.Id give all that up for Cousins and Butler easy.

thamadkant · Post #160 » by **thamadkant** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:44 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Getting Butler and Cousins through multiple trades would be a massive haul which I too think is unrealistic, at least in one season anyway.

I like some of the proposals for Jimmy but I also don't think he plays a position of our biggest need. Booker, for better or worse, is our 1-2 of the future. Butler could play next to him but I don't think it's a wise trade choice.

We're in need of a legit big man and Cousins to me is still the grand prize. If we're giving up a crap ton of assets, I'd rather pair Booker/Bledsoe with Cousins than Butler. And that's no knock on Butler who I readily admit is a top 15-20 guy. Just a matter of need and fit.

Thats whay I mean with my post.

Hypothetically...

Suns trade for Butler, use Warren, heat pick 2018 and Chriss.

Butler on the Suns probably make them a 35 win team... Not enough. So I would trade away Knight, Tucker and Chandler for early 2nd rounders and late firsts.... Maybe a prospect.
Have Butler "rest" DNP due to soreness lots of games and Bledsoe too...

Suns get top 3 pick.

Use top 3 pick and Bender for Cousins who has verbally committed he will extend with Suns... Similar trade with Love and Wiggins.

Suns then have Cousins, Butler, Booker and Bledsoe core players.... Fill team with veterans and rookies...