Game 27: Phoenix Suns (16-10) @ New Orioles Pelicans (17-8) l Sunday l 1:30pm l BSAZ

[garrick]

well we have Houston next which is a super winnable game.

Monty better sit Booker down for that game even if healthy just out of precaution, if we lose the next one we're screwed.

[SkyBill40]

well we have Houston next which is a super winnable game.

Monty better sit Booker down for that game even if healthy just out of precaution, if we lose the next one we're screwed.

That's what we thought the last time, too.

[Sunlight]

Suns missing Jay Crowder so much. Soul of this team 2 years dominance.

[TeamTragic]

Suns missing Jay Crowder so much. Soul of this team 2 years dominance.

You think the SUNS don't want Jae in their lineup?

Dude is a greedy clown.

[lilfishi22]

Over this past nightmare week, it's reinforced for me the need for that 3rd scorer, preferably one who can create and bring some level of toughness.

Top of mind, Oubre is still the #1 guy for me then Randle (begrudgingly) and then maybe Gordon

We need a PF and one that can score would be nice. While I did like Oubre, I felt we kinda did him dirty and I don't see him coming back. If he's traded here, well, that's something else but I still don't see that working. I've always liked Randle and hoped we were in the mix to sign him as a FA before he went to the Knicks. Again, we missed out.

I agree we need a scorer to complement the rest of the team. Gordon is too old now to run with us at the tempo which is really needed. And he comes at a pretty lofty cost.

I've never liked Randle as a player and I do have a real worry he'll have a negative impact on team chemistry but I have to admit he was really good a couple of seasons ago when he was an All-NBA level player. We don't necessarily need that guy but something close would be a massive get for us.

My biggest issue is his contract. He'll be in the books for another 2, potentially 3 years at between $25-30m. If I can get myself over that, I'd be a lot more in favor

[Ghost of Kleine]

Better effort and less painful than a straight blowout to lack of any effort whatsoever! But the inconvenient truths being exposed here are:

1- Paul is pretty much cooked, and no longer elite anymore. His trade value will continue to plummet as he declines further.

2- Ayton is still hot and cold at times throughout the game and currently still can't maintain a dominant level of physicality and aggression as our only elite athlete.

3- Our bench came at a value for a reason. Because they aren't great or high level contributors. It's not their fault that our front office sold us on them being more than they're capable of being. they're lower tier fringe NBA players/ end of bench level contributors nothing more.

4- Our team is just too woefully small, slow, UNATHLETIC, and far too soft physically and mentally to get defensive stops and play dominant ball. They're a lovable team of underdog try-hards that will give you heartwarming effort and nice guy vibes. But they're really not going anywhere as currently constructed and have maxxed out their potential currently. We're just delaying an inevitable reload/ rebuild with Paul becoming more of his Carlton counterpart competitively than the Point God anymore. Saric and Shamet are garbage and not legitimate contributors anymore. Payne will not be good enough (reliable/ consistent) to be a lead guard.

5- Our coach isn't capable of keeping our players disciplined or locked in to our scheme. It's becoming more apparent that Paul himself ( being elite) was a greater catalyst to our success than Williams himself as evidenced by our competitive fall from grace with Paul declining and Monty unable to turn things around and get the team back on track.

*** We need to overhaul this roster around the core, But will need to big moves at both the starting guard spot and the power forward spot more importantly! We need to add some ELITE YOUNG ATHLETES/ ENERGIZERS! We need higher tier contributors ala Rozier, Randle, Hayward, Kuzma, etc?? No more vet min cast off projects. Lastly we need to change up our identity a bit to maximize what we do have by getting back to a run 'n' gun style offense with a scrambling defense creating turnovers, running off rebounds and steals to get into our offensive flow and when things slow down to halfcourt sets, we need to run the offense through Ayton better so the defenses can collapse giving us more open high percentage shots. We can ride things out as is though to a 4-6th seed and a first or second round exit IF we don't end up getting bounced in the "play in" tournament. Tank might need to be on standby soon with consideration given to flipping Paul and others for players/ picks and enmbracing our inevitable rebuild quicker??

[TeamTragic]

Better effort and less painful than a straight blowout to lack of any effort whatsoever! But the inconvenient truths being exposed here are:

1- Paul is pretty much cooked, and no longer elite anymore. His trade value will continue to plummet as he declines further.

2- Ayton is still hot and cold at times throughout the game and currently still can't maintain a dominant level of physicality and aggression as our only elite athlete.

3- Our bench came at a value for a reason. Because they aren't great or high level contributors. It's not their fault that our front office sold us on them being more than they're capable of being. they're lower tier fringe NBA players/ end of bench level contributors nothing more.

4- Our team is just too woefully small, slow, UNATHLETIC, and far too soft physically and mentally to get defensive stops and play dominant ball. They're a lovable team of underdog try-hards that will give you heartwarming effort and nice guy vibes. But they're really not going anywhere as currently constructed and have maxxed out their potential currently. We're just delaying an inevitable reload/ rebuild with Paul becoming more of his Carlton counterpart competitively than the Point God anymore. Saric and Shamet are garbage and not legitimate contributors anymore. Payne will not be good enough (reliable/ consistent) to be a lead guard.

5- Our coach isn't capable of keeping our players disciplined or locked in to our scheme. It's becoming more apparent that Paul himself ( being elite) was a greater catalyst to our success than Williams himself as evidenced by our competitive fall from grace with Paul declining and Monty unable to turn things around and get the team back on track.

*** We need to overhaul this roster around the core, But will need to big moves at both the starting guard spot and the power forward spot more importantly! We need to add some ELITE YOUNG ATHLETES/ ENERGIZERS! We need higher tier contributors ala Rozier, Randle, Hayward, Kuzma, etc?? No more vet min cast off projects. Lastly we need to change up our identity a bit to maximize what we do have by getting back to a run 'n' gun style offense with a scrambling defense creating turnovers, running off rebounds and steals to get into our offensive flow and when things slow down to halfcourt sets, we need to run the offense through Ayton better so the defenses can collapse giving us more open high percentage shots. We can ride things out as is though to a 4-6th seed and a first or second round exit IF we don't end up getting bounced in the "play in" tournament. Tank might need to be on standby soon with consideration given to flipping Paul and others for players/ picks and enmbracing our inevitable rebuild quicker??

#TANK4WEMBY

[Ghost of Kleine]

well we have Houston next which is a super winnable game.

Monty better sit Booker down for that game even if healthy just out of precaution, if we lose the next one we're screwed.

Honestly not too sure given recent concerns man! Is it here or in Houston?? because they play harder, faster and more aggressively than us and are quite likely to get the benefit of the majority of calls due to playing with more energy and force?

[Sunlight]

Suns missing Jay Crowder so much. Soul of this team 2 years dominance.

You think the SUNS don't want Jae in their lineup?

Dude is a greedy clown.

Jay Crowder not deserved to lose his starting role. Injury prone guy replaced him and 4-game losing streak is reality.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Better effort and less painful than a straight blowout to lack of any effort whatsoever! But the inconvenient truths being exposed here are:

1- Paul is pretty much cooked, and no longer elite anymore. His trade value will continue to plummet as he declines further.

2- Ayton is still hot and cold at times throughout the game and currently still can't maintain a dominant level of physicality and aggression as our only elite athlete.

3- Our bench came at a value for a reason. Because they aren't great or high level contributors. It's not their fault that our front office sold us on them being more than they're capable of being. they're lower tier fringe NBA players/ end of bench level contributors nothing more.

4- Our team is just too woefully small, slow, UNATHLETIC, and far too soft physically and mentally to get defensive stops and play dominant ball. They're a lovable team of underdog try-hards that will give you heartwarming effort and nice guy vibes. But they're really not going anywhere as currently constructed and have maxxed out their potential currently. We're just delaying an inevitable reload/ rebuild with Paul becoming more of his Carlton counterpart competitively than the Point God anymore. Saric and Shamet are garbage and not legitimate contributors anymore. Payne will not be good enough (reliable/ consistent) to be a lead guard.

5- Our coach isn't capable of keeping our players disciplined or locked in to our scheme. It's becoming more apparent that Paul himself ( being elite) was a greater catalyst to our success than Williams himself as evidenced by our competitive fall from grace with Paul declining and Monty unable to turn things around and get the team back on track.

*** We need to overhaul this roster around the core, But will need to big moves at both the starting guard spot and the power forward spot more importantly! We need to add some ELITE YOUNG ATHLETES/ ENERGIZERS! We need higher tier contributors ala Rozier, Randle, Hayward, Kuzma, etc?? No more vet min cast off projects. Lastly we need to change up our identity a bit to maximize what we do have by getting back to a run 'n' gun style offense with a scrambling defense creating turnovers, running off rebounds and steals to get into our offensive flow and when things slow down to halfcourt sets, we need to run the offense through Ayton better so the defenses can collapse giving us more open high percentage shots. We can ride things out as is though to a 4-6th seed and a first or second round exit IF we don't end up getting bounced in the "play in" tournament. Tank might need to be on standby soon with consideration given to flipping Paul and others for players/ picks and enmbracing our inevitable rebuild quicker??

#TANK4WEMBY

We likely wouldn't be lucky enough to get him as I'm sure he'll be gifted to the Spurs as the perfect big man prodigy for Pops and Duncan to groom and resurrect the original "dark side" franchise again! Or else to Charlotte?? But my money's on the Spurs given their connection to the league as a gateway franchise to European prospects/ affiliates. Still though, IF we could just fall into one of Brandon Miller, Amen Thompson, Nik Smith Jr, Cam Whitmore, Cason Wallace, Keyonte George or Terrence Shannon Jr We'[d have another high end talent option to help out Booker ,Ayton and Bridges.

[lilfishi22]

Better effort and less painful than a straight blowout to lack of any effort whatsoever! But the inconvenient truths being exposed here are:

1- Paul is pretty much cooked, and no longer elite anymore. His trade value will continue to plummet as he declines further.

2- Ayton is still hot and cold at times throughout the game and currently still can't maintain a dominant level of physicality and aggression as our only elite athlete.

3- Our bench came at a value for a reason. Because they aren't great or high level contributors. It's not their fault that our front office sold us on them being more than they're capable of being. they're lower tier fringe NBA players/ end of bench level contributors nothing more.

4- Our team is just too woefully small, slow, UNATHLETIC, and far too soft physically and mentally to get defensive stops and play dominant ball. They're a lovable team of underdog try-hards that will give you heartwarming effort and nice guy vibes. But they're really not going anywhere as currently constructed and have maxxed out their potential currently. We're just delaying an inevitable reload/ rebuild with Paul becoming more of his Carlton counterpart competitively than the Point God anymore. Saric and Shamet are garbage and not legitimate contributors anymore. Payne will not be good enough (reliable/ consistent) to be a lead guard.

5- Our coach isn't capable of keeping our players disciplined or locked in to our scheme. It's becoming more apparent that Paul himself ( being elite) was a greater catalyst to our success than Williams himself as evidenced by our competitive fall from grace with Paul declining and Monty unable to turn things around and get the team back on track.

*** We need to overhaul this roster around the core, But will need to big moves at both the starting guard spot and the power forward spot more importantly! We need to add some ELITE YOUNG ATHLETES/ ENERGIZERS! We need higher tier contributors ala Rozier, Randle, Hayward, Kuzma, etc?? No more vet min cast off projects. Lastly we need to change up our identity a bit to maximize what we do have by getting back to a run 'n' gun style offense with a scrambling defense creating turnovers, running off rebounds and steals to get into our offensive flow and when things slow down to halfcourt sets, we need to run the offense through Ayton better so the defenses can collapse giving us more open high percentage shots. We can ride things out as is though to a 4-6th seed and a first or second round exit IF we don't end up getting bounced in the "play in" tournament. Tank might need to be on standby soon with consideration given to flipping Paul and others for players/ picks and enmbracing our inevitable rebuild quicker??

#TANK4WEMBY

We likely wouldn't be lucky enough to get him as I'm sure he'll be gifted to the Spurs as the perfect big man prodigy for Pops and Duncan to groom and resurrect the original "dark side" franchise again! Or else to Charlotte?? But my money's on the Spurs given their connection to the league as a gateway franchise to European prospects/ affiliates. Still though, IF we could just fall into one of Brandon Miller, Amen Thompson, Nik Smith Jr, Cam Whitmore, Cason Wallace, Keyonte George or Terrence Shannon Jr We'[d have another high end talent option to help out Booker ,Ayton and Bridges.

Try to sell the tank to Book, Mikal, Ayton, Cam and the fans

Tanking now is the definition of throwing the baby out with the bath water

[JDJ26]

Better effort and less painful than a straight blowout to lack of any effort whatsoever! But the inconvenient truths being exposed here are:

1- Paul is pretty much cooked, and no longer elite anymore. His trade value will continue to plummet as he declines further.

2- Ayton is still hot and cold at times throughout the game and currently still can't maintain a dominant level of physicality and aggression as our only elite athlete.

3- Our bench came at a value for a reason. Because they aren't great or high level contributors. It's not their fault that our front office sold us on them being more than they're capable of being. they're lower tier fringe NBA players/ end of bench level contributors nothing more.

4- Our team is just too woefully small, slow, UNATHLETIC, and far too soft physically and mentally to get defensive stops and play dominant ball. They're a lovable team of underdog try-hards that will give you heartwarming effort and nice guy vibes. But they're really not going anywhere as currently constructed and have maxxed out their potential currently. We're just delaying an inevitable reload/ rebuild with Paul becoming more of his Carlton counterpart competitively than the Point God anymore. Saric and Shamet are garbage and not legitimate contributors anymore. Payne will not be good enough (reliable/ consistent) to be a lead guard.

5- Our coach isn't capable of keeping our players disciplined or locked in to our scheme. It's becoming more apparent that Paul himself ( being elite) was a greater catalyst to our success than Williams himself as evidenced by our competitive fall from grace with Paul declining and Monty unable to turn things around and get the team back on track.

*** We need to overhaul this roster around the core, But will need to big moves at both the starting guard spot and the power forward spot more importantly! We need to add some ELITE YOUNG ATHLETES/ ENERGIZERS! We need higher tier contributors ala Rozier, Randle, Hayward, Kuzma, etc?? No more vet min cast off projects. Lastly we need to change up our identity a bit to maximize what we do have by getting back to a run 'n' gun style offense with a scrambling defense creating turnovers, running off rebounds and steals to get into our offensive flow and when things slow down to halfcourt sets, we need to run the offense through Ayton better so the defenses can collapse giving us more open high percentage shots. We can ride things out as is though to a 4-6th seed and a first or second round exit IF we don't end up getting bounced in the "play in" tournament. Tank might need to be on standby soon with consideration given to flipping Paul and others for players/ picks and enmbracing our inevitable rebuild quicker??

I think the team would look a lot better if the team had more quality players coming off the bench.

Which goes back to the team stupidly neglecting scouting and not taking the draft seriously.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Over this past nightmare week, it's reinforced for me the need for that 3rd scorer, preferably one who can create and bring some level of toughness.

Top of mind, Oubre is still the #1 guy for me then Randle (begrudgingly) and then maybe Gordon

We need a PF and one that can score would be nice. While I did like Oubre, I felt we kinda did him dirty and I don't see him coming back. If he's traded here, well, that's something else but I still don't see that working. I've always liked Randle and hoped we were in the mix to sign him as a FA before he went to the Knicks. Again, we missed out.

I agree we need a scorer to complement the rest of the team. Gordon is too old now to run with us at the tempo which is really needed. And he comes at a pretty lofty cost.

I've never liked Randle as a player and I do have a real worry he'll have a negative impact on team chemistry but I have to admit he was really good a couple of seasons ago when he was an All-NBA level player. We don't necessarily need that guy but something close would be a massive get for us.

My biggest issue is his contract. He'll be in the books for another 2, potentially 3 years at between $25-30m. If I can get myself over that, I'd be a lot more in favor

That's my biggest issue when evaluating his trade value against his high usage and average efficiency. I have no doubt he'd elevate our frontcourt measurably IF our coach could figure out how to utilize him optimally ( hint! hint!........ Off the bench in a super 6th man role) surrounded by shooters and scoring/ defensive wings But his salary scale against his efficiency/ usage diminish his value to wherein he absolutely doesn't warrant/ return an inclusionary first. But I'd maintain interest for the added physicality/ edge he'd bring to our team.

[JDJ26]

We likely wouldn't be lucky enough to get him as I'm sure he'll be gifted to the Spurs as the perfect big man prodigy for Pops and Duncan to groom and resurrect the original "dark side" franchise again! Or else to Charlotte?? But my money's on the Spurs given their connection to the league as a gateway franchise to European prospects/ affiliates. Still though, IF we could just fall into one of Brandon Miller, Amen Thompson, Nik Smith Jr, Cam Whitmore, Cason Wallace, Keyonte George or Terrence Shannon Jr We'[d have another high end talent option to help out Booker ,Ayton and Bridges.

My conspiracy theory radar ( ) thinks Wemby is going to the Hornets.

Lamelo with Victor would be a deadly combo and could potentially be a modern version of Magic and Kareem.

[Ghost of Kleine]

#TANK4WEMBY

We likely wouldn't be lucky enough to get him as I'm sure he'll be gifted to the Spurs as the perfect big man prodigy for Pops and Duncan to groom and resurrect the original "dark side" franchise again! Or else to Charlotte?? But my money's on the Spurs given their connection to the league as a gateway franchise to European prospects/ affiliates. Still though, IF we could just fall into one of Brandon Miller, Amen Thompson, Nik Smith Jr, Cam Whitmore, Cason Wallace, Keyonte George or Terrence Shannon Jr We'[d have another high end talent option to help out Booker ,Ayton and Bridges.

Try to sell the tank to Book, Mikal, Ayton, Cam and the fans

Tanking now is the definition of throwing the baby out with the bath water

Lol........ If you say so man!
No one's saying to fully gut the team or trade off our core. I'm only suggesting adding the necessary young , more athletic, more hungry talented players that can more legitimately support our core than what we chose as the alternative! And honestly, If we don't figure out our issues and get things back on track, it really won't even be a matter of selling the idea but accepting the reality of that or a perennial treadmilling late seed to "play in" team. Not sure Book would consider that outcome to be beneficial to his goals of being "legendary" either???

[bwoolf2]

Suns missing Jay Crowder so much. Soul of this team 2 years dominance.

Missing Cam and Book. Jae is ok but he is an avg player.

[Revived]

Over this past nightmare week, it's reinforced for me the need for that 3rd scorer, preferably one who can create and bring some level of toughness.

While this is true, the Pelicans have beat us twice with just 2 scorers as Ingram wasn’t even playing. They took us to 6 games last season with just 2 scorers as Zion wasn’t playing.

Our problems are deeper than this but what you’re saying is also a big issue.

[handsome salary]

Loss is a loss. No moral victories. The standings during and at the end of the season says it all.

[lilfishi22]

We likely wouldn't be lucky enough to get him as I'm sure he'll be gifted to the Spurs as the perfect big man prodigy for Pops and Duncan to groom and resurrect the original "dark side" franchise again! Or else to Charlotte?? But my money's on the Spurs given their connection to the league as a gateway franchise to European prospects/ affiliates. Still though, IF we could just fall into one of Brandon Miller, Amen Thompson, Nik Smith Jr, Cam Whitmore, Cason Wallace, Keyonte George or Terrence Shannon Jr We'[d have another high end talent option to help out Booker ,Ayton and Bridges.

Try to sell the tank to Book, Mikal, Ayton, Cam and the fans

Tanking now is the definition of throwing the baby out with the bath water

Lol........ If you say so man!
No one's saying to fully gut the team or trade off our core. I'm only suggesting adding the necessary young , more athletic, more hungry talented players that can more legitimately support our core than what we chose as the alternative! And honestly, If we don't figure out our issues and get things back on track, it really won't even be a matter of selling the idea but accepting the reality of that or a perennial treadmilling late seed to "play in" team. Not sure Book would consider that outcome to be beneficial to his goals of being "legendary" either???

Yes, we have to figure out or issue. That's not a surprise to anyone and that's something we're doing every single day, whether in the film room, the practice court or even in game. We're trying to figure things out on the fly.

Nothing is guaranteed. No championship is guaranteed to any elite contender and no playoff berth is necessarily guaranteed to on paper contenders either. When we traded for CP3 and signed Crowder, I don't think any Suns fan thought we'd be an elite contender nor get to the Finals. There was no guarantee the CP3/Booker pairing would've even worked.

So you might want to condemn this team to a perennial treadmiller for whatever reason but there's no guarantee of that. There's no guarantee young contenders like the Grizzlies are on some consistent upward trajectory. Maybe their ceiling might be capped as a second round team, who knows. Hell the Thunder have been tanking for 3 years now and they are probably closer to losing SGA over the next years than any kind of deep playoff run.

We have a good group here, clearly good enough to stomp on the necks of like 20 teams in the league but would have trouble beating 5 and likely losing to the elite 5. And that's without old man CP3 or Crowder, the two guys we brought in to help the young 34-39 Bubble Suns to get to the next level. Those two guys are not the Phoenix Suns, they are more like guides for the true Suns that's been improving and getting better while also making a Finals run. Take those two guys out and yes we'll struggle with the elite teams but it makes zero sense to me to think being a perennial playoff team is a bad thing while believing there's any sort of solace or guarantee of a future contender in the lottery. After being in mediocrity playing the tanking game for years, why anyone would be keen to go back to that, I have no **** idea.

You have to acknowledge just how rare and how difficult it is to put a team together that gets to the Finals and beats franchise win records. Yeah ultimately we didn't win but this group is still good enough to be a playoff team and if you make the right moves, we continue to be a really damn good team this season and continuing.

[spanishninja]

well, at least nobody can say we're only good in the regular season.