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2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#141 » by garrick » Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:42 am

sunskerr wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:If we're going by hindsight, we should've shipped DA off after the Finals when his value was the highest. Or better yet....not draft him. Or better yet, resign Joe Johnson. Or better yet....how far back should we go back with hindsight?


Everything we've done since the finals 2021 has been because we didn't take Doncic (to a lesser extent Haliburton). Doncic being the playmaker to share the load with Booker. And KD being a solution to not having that.

That causes us to trade literally everything from our assets to get a star next to Booker. Which resulted in having literally zero NBA level rotation players around the main 4 guys. In other words we needed another year/off-season to add more assets to be able to sustain a real rotation after trading for a star.

At some point you have to learn from your mistakes, so that's why hindsight is valuable. Otherwise you're just being a [redacted] and end up doubling down (like if we trade for Butler and use the rest of our picks).

And with respect to Butler (or without him, even), any scenario where we get Butler and don't win a championship, even if it improves the team and we make a conference finals or finals, is a total failure at this point.


Even without taking Doncic we could have kept the core and built on it by adding a mix of veterans and youth but JJ squandered our window and yeah that blown pick on Jalen Smith hurt a lot which was compounded by us just giving him up for nothing.

We just never were very deep unlike the Celtics team that is super super deep and looks to be a contender for the next 3-4 years.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#142 » by sunskerr » Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:43 am

garrick wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:If we're going by hindsight, we should've shipped DA off after the Finals when his value was the highest. Or better yet....not draft him. Or better yet, resign Joe Johnson. Or better yet....how far back should we go back with hindsight?


Everything we've done since the finals 2021 has been because we didn't take Doncic (to a lesser extent Haliburton). Doncic being the playmaker to share the load with Booker. And KD being a solution to not having that.

That causes us to trade literally everything from our assets to get a star next to Booker. Which resulted in having literally zero NBA level rotation players around the main 4 guys. In other words we needed another year/off-season to add more assets to be able to sustain a real rotation after trading for a star.

At some point you have to learn from your mistakes, so that's why hindsight is valuable. Otherwise you're just being a [redacted] and end up doubling down (like if we trade for Butler and use the rest of our picks).

And with respect to Butler (or without him, even), any scenario where we get Butler and don't win a championship, even if it improves the team and we make a conference finals or finals, is a total failure at this point.


Even without taking Doncic we could have kept the core and built on it by adding a mix of veterans and youth but JJ squandered our window and yeah that blown pick on Jalen Smith hurt a lot which was compounded by us just giving him up for nothing.

We just never were very deep unlike the Celtics team that is super super deep and looks to be a contender for the next 3-4 years.


Yeah teams just have too much depth nowadays. And the depth allows you to make big trades while still having decent players who can fill in the minutes. The top teams are putting out lineups with two stars surrounded by good role players.

Then there is fit...only one rock to go around. Teams don't seem to have more than two guys who need the ball or who only impact the game by scoring a lot.

I can see a case being made for this year's Chris Paul being a more effective player on our roster than Bradley Beal. But ideally that 3rd guy would be a wing who can sort of do it all or a big who can play off the ball but get you 20 or whatever. Or Chris Paul from 2021.

A guy who takes the ball out of Bookers and KDs hands and takes shots away from them? Maybe not the best fit.

Like from a fit standpoint Butler at least to me right now when I think about it from that standpoint, makes more sense than Beal I think. Better defender, dirty work guy, doesn't need to score 20+ all the time, bigger body at 6'7". He can just focus on defense mostly, but still be a threat. Get you 15-20 but probably closer to 18/5/4 on great D.

Oh no am I talking myself into Butler?? Damn if we have to give up that pick and give him $120m at 36 years old lol.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#143 » by Slim Charless » Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:09 am

This is all exactly what we need Suns rookies (Dunn) doing great as starter with Beal being the spark off the bench and a leader of sorts.

3 wins in a row and hopefully Ish sees that there's no reason to move guys.....aside from a possible Nurk for GWill/Richards deal.

Then we get our Booker deal in the summer
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#144 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:20 am

I've mentioned these considerations from the vet minimum /unsigned pool as players that we should strongly consider, as we're currently more beggars than choosers in our current situation, devoid of any legitimate draft assets or cap space. So then, how do we find solutions for our roster deficiencies under these incredibly restrictive conditions as a 2nd apron team?

We'll the one avenue that we're not at all restricted by is the vet minimum options we might add to our roster as they don't count against our cap. Additionally, for those years that we don't even have a draft pick to utilize, we would do ourselves a disservice by not at the very least exploring some of these young players that still have impressive skillsets and untapped upside. BOTH as potential assets to be showcased as well as potential key contributors based on their untapped upside and individual skill sets. In our current predicament, we owe it to ourselves to explore the possibilities of how these unsigned players could offer a low-risk/high-reward contribution to our team. And very possibly transform into more additional valued trade assets that we could utilize at minimal cost.

Vet minimum free agency unsigned options

1- Mike Muscala.
A 6'11 240 lb power forward/center who is a career 37% 3 PT shooter. I believe that he could flourish as a versatile, gritty floor spacing big in our system and could be a Brook Lopez type project (sans rim protection) under Budenholzer.


2- Olivier Sarr.
A 7 foot 237 lb Young athletic versatile forward/center (the 25 yr old older brother of recent Wizards lottery pick Alex Sarr who possesses many similar attributes/ talents. Is a crafty passer, good ballhandler, high-end athlete/ rim runner/shot-blocker who also just happens to shoot 37% from three! He's high motor and physical too. He'd be great interchangeably with Ighodaro due to his floor spacing and weakside shot blocking! His per 36 numbers are really impressive: 12 points/ 13 rebounds/ 2.6 blocks. 66TS%.


3- Markelle Fultz.
A very talented young, athletic, strong 6'5 guard who still possesses immense upside and lead guard potential. That'd be a great value swing for us getting a former lottery pick guard for the vet minimum. And if he shows out, then he might return a solid asset like a first or a couple of 2nds. And he'd be a solid low-cost stopgap until we could get Lonzo Ball somehow hopefully.


4- Terquavion Smith.
A young, very quick, athletic, high motor 6'4 shooting guard who's a streaky shooter but still a 37% 3 PT shooter for his career. Smith is a really good long-range shooter with deep range and a quick release. He's disruptive on defense getting steals and deflections sometimes but is primarily a gunner similar to Bons Hyland/ or a skinnier Jordan Clarkson microwave scorer.


5- Ibou Dianko Badji.
A very long 7'1 240 lb center with a 7'8 wingspan and a high motor. Badji although still very young at only 22 years old has incredible defensive upside because he's incredibly long, athletic, and fast/ switchable for his size! He just needs time and reps to adjust and grow to the NBA game/ speed. But his size, length, athleticism, and footspeed/ability to cover ground and recover are elite. H's a very low-risk immense upside rim running shot blocking specialist center. He's also got a very smooth developing mid-range jumper!
( Offense)

(Defense- blocks)
Spoiler:
[youtube]https://youtu.be/MyZOJIp1xGg?si=jzfU5dvSAAsW9MLX[/youtube]

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#145 » by Fo-Real » Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:14 pm

Jones seems to be underperforming lately. I agree that Beal off the bench has given us a great punch, but Beal can argue that he has been better offensively and defensively over the starting PG. Jones has even been turning the ball over, something he is known for not doing.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#146 » by Fo-Real » Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:04 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:I've mentioned these considerations from the vet minimum /unsigned pool as players that we should strongly consider, as we're currently more beggars than choosers in our current situation, devoid of any legitimate draft assets or cap space. So then, how do we find solutions for our roster deficiencies under these incredibly restrictive conditions as a 2nd apron team?

We'll the one avenue that we're not at all restricted by is the vet minimum options we might add to our roster as they don't count against our cap. Additionally, for those years that we don't even have a draft pick to utilize, we would do ourselves a disservice by not at the very least exploring some of these young players that still have impressive skillsets and untapped upside. BOTH as potential assets to be showcased as well as potential key contributors based on their untapped upside and individual skill sets. In our current predicament, we owe it to ourselves to explore the possibilities of how these unsigned players could offer a low-risk/high-reward contribution to our team. And very possibly transform into more additional valued trade assets that we could utilize at minimal cost.

Vet minimum free agency unsigned options

1- Mike Muscala.
A 6'11 240 lb power forward/center who is a career 37% 3 PT shooter. I believe that he could flourish as a versatile, gritty floor spacing big in our system and could be a Brook Lopez type project (sans rim protection) under Budenholzer.


2- Olivier Sarr.
A 7 foot 237 lb Young athletic versatile forward/center (the 25 yr old older brother of recent Wizards lottery pick Alex Sarr who possesses many similar attributes/ talents. Is a crafty passer, good ballhandler, high-end athlete/ rim runner/shot-blocker who also just happens to shoot 37% from three! He's high motor and physical too. He'd be great interchangeably with Ighodaro due to his floor spacing and weakside shot blocking! His per 36 numbers are really impressive: 12 points/ 13 rebounds/ 2.6 blocks. 66TS%.


3- Markelle Fultz.
A very talented young, athletic, strong 6'5 guard who still possesses immense upside and lead guard potential. That'd be a great value swing for us getting a former lottery pick guard for the vet minimum. And if he shows out, then he might return a solid asset like a first or a couple of 2nds. And he'd be a solid low-cost stopgap until we could get Lonzo Ball somehow hopefully.


4- Terquavion Smith.
A young, very quick, athletic, high motor 6'4 shooting guard who's a streaky shooter but still a 37% 3 PT shooter for his career. Smith is a really good long-range shooter with deep range and a quick release. He's disruptive on defense getting steals and deflections sometimes but is primarily a gunner similar to Bons Hyland/ or a skinnier Jordan Clarkson microwave scorer.


5- Ibou Dianko Badji.
A very long 7'1 240 lb center with a 7'8 wingspan and a high motor. Badji although still very young at only 22 years old has incredible defensive upside because he's incredibly long, athletic, and fast/ switchable for his size! He just needs time and reps to adjust and grow to the NBA game/ speed. But his size, length, athleticism, and footspeed/ability to cover ground and recover are elite. H's a very low-risk immense upside rim running shot blocking specialist center. He's also got a very smooth developing mid-range jumper!
( Offense)

(Defense- blocks)
Spoiler:
[youtube]https://youtu.be/MyZOJIp1xGg?si=jzfU5dvSAAsW9MLX[/youtube]




Sarr is huge!
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#147 » by Mr Puddles » Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:07 pm

Are Isaiah Stewart or Onyeka Okongwu available?

The both make slightly less than Nurkic or Grayson Allen. Could Nurkic + '31 get it done?

Either guy would be a starter for the Suns.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#148 » by They_Them_Hatin » Mon Jan 13, 2025 3:35 pm

Charlotte game plan was to clearly attack Plumlee. If this team is going to go anywhere they need a real center. I think Oso is a decent tweener right now. They def hit on the draft adding size with just the 22nd pick.

Anyone who played for the Wizards, the ball needs to be out their hands in the 4th.

I expect Okogie to be gone soon. I hope it’s for a
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#149 » by dremill24 » Mon Jan 13, 2025 3:44 pm

Mr Puddles wrote:Are Isaiah Stewart or Onyeka Okongwu available?

The both make slightly less than Nurkic or Grayson Allen. Could Nurkic + '31 get it done?

Either guy would be a starter for the Suns.


I cant really imagine they're looking to trade those guys.

Pistons are fighting for the playoffs for the first time in about 50yrs so dealing an important cog in their defense may not be on their list.

Hawks have been grooming Okongwu for quite a while to take over for Capela, who is in the last year of his contract.

That pick could be gold tho so I would consider it if I were them and it was on the table but not sure they'd wanna step back that way.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#150 » by King4Day » Mon Jan 13, 2025 4:15 pm

If we traded Okogie and a pick or 2 for Richards, it would save the Suns 3.25mil. I wonder how much tax that would save Ishbia. Has to be a ton.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#151 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jan 13, 2025 4:25 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:If we're going by hindsight, we should've shipped DA off after the Finals when his value was the highest. Or better yet....not draft him. Or better yet, resign Joe Johnson. Or better yet....how far back should we go back with hindsight?


Yeah, drafted Luka, or heck, maybe even Shai, at #1. Or had we traded down to 8th how many more picks could we have gotten, and taken Shai at 8th and added a couple more picks. Hindsights easy. Kawhi instead of Morris, Giannis instead of Len, etc, etc.

It's not often you see fans of teams pining for Monty as their coach these days though.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#152 » by Saberestar » Mon Jan 13, 2025 4:32 pm

Mr Puddles wrote:Are Isaiah Stewart or Onyeka Okongwu available?

The both make slightly less than Nurkic or Grayson Allen. Could Nurkic + '31 get it done?

Either guy would be a starter for the Suns.

Stewart could be available but not sure about Okongwu.

He seems a good all-around C and he would be a clear upgrade for us but I doubt the Hawks trade him for that package.

I am not really interested in Stewart, I wouldn't trade for him.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#153 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jan 13, 2025 4:48 pm

sunskerr wrote:
garrick wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
Everything we've done since the finals 2021 has been because we didn't take Doncic (to a lesser extent Haliburton). Doncic being the playmaker to share the load with Booker. And KD being a solution to not having that.

That causes us to trade literally everything from our assets to get a star next to Booker. Which resulted in having literally zero NBA level rotation players around the main 4 guys. In other words we needed another year/off-season to add more assets to be able to sustain a real rotation after trading for a star.

At some point you have to learn from your mistakes, so that's why hindsight is valuable. Otherwise you're just being a [redacted] and end up doubling down (like if we trade for Butler and use the rest of our picks).

And with respect to Butler (or without him, even), any scenario where we get Butler and don't win a championship, even if it improves the team and we make a conference finals or finals, is a total failure at this point.


Even without taking Doncic we could have kept the core and built on it by adding a mix of veterans and youth but JJ squandered our window and yeah that blown pick on Jalen Smith hurt a lot which was compounded by us just giving him up for nothing.

We just never were very deep unlike the Celtics team that is super super deep and looks to be a contender for the next 3-4 years.


Yeah teams just have too much depth nowadays. And the depth allows you to make big trades while still having decent players who can fill in the minutes. The top teams are putting out lineups with two stars surrounded by good role players.

Then there is fit...only one rock to go around. Teams don't seem to have more than two guys who need the ball or who only impact the game by scoring a lot.

I can see a case being made for this year's Chris Paul being a more effective player on our roster than Bradley Beal. But ideally that 3rd guy would be a wing who can sort of do it all or a big who can play off the ball but get you 20 or whatever. Or Chris Paul from 2021.

A guy who takes the ball out of Bookers and KDs hands and takes shots away from them? Maybe not the best fit.

Like from a fit standpoint Butler at least to me right now when I think about it from that standpoint, makes more sense than Beal I think. Better defender, dirty work guy, doesn't need to score 20+ all the time, bigger body at 6'7". He can just focus on defense mostly, but still be a threat. Get you 15-20 but probably closer to 18/5/4 on great D.

Oh no am I talking myself into Butler?? Damn if we have to give up that pick and give him $120m at 36 years old lol.


Sometimes it doesn't feel like you've been watching much of the Suns, because the some of the points don't make much sense based on what we see. Are you basing everything on the LEBRON stat? Do you think Chris Paul would be better to have than Durant? You talk about taking shots away from Book but has not shot very well the last couple months until these Charlotte and Houston games. At sometimes awful, like Memphis and Charlotte. And then we have Tyus Jones, who basically does the same thing Paul does.

BECAUSE Book has become a great passer, Paul would make no sense in his current form. Jones doesn't really make sense at this point given Book is the primary facilitator. The only saving grace there is he shoots the 3 well. Paul doesn't do.

The funny thing is although I have usually complained about too much iso, which we would still see a bit of, now mostly from KD, sometimes I feel we overpass now...like 3 guys will get the ball wide open and just continue to pass it.

Unless you are just saying if we had Paul back, Book would just go back into not being the distributor he is and go back into his scoring role, and we wouldn't have Tyus, etc. But aside from the leadership and passing, what really elevated Paul to near MVP caliber in his first 2 years with us was the fact that he was so clutch and could score at will and take over games down the stretch if needed. He doesn't do that anymore. He couldn't do it with us the last year and a half. If he could, especially when we had KD, if he was even close to the same player he was prior to the last 5 games of that Dallas series, we are super legit, because he was that good. He's just not the same player anymore.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#154 » by They_Them_Hatin » Mon Jan 13, 2025 4:56 pm

Mr Puddles wrote:Are Isaiah Stewart or Onyeka Okongwu available?

The both make slightly less than Nurkic or Grayson Allen. Could Nurkic + '31 get it done?

Either guy would be a starter for the Suns.

Okongwu is untouchable and it’s not just a thing Hawks fans say. There’s been reports he is. No way they’re giving up that pick for Stewart.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#155 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jan 13, 2025 4:59 pm

Fo-Real wrote:Jones seems to be underperforming lately. I agree that Beal off the bench has given us a great punch, but Beal can argue that he has been better offensively and defensively over the starting PG. Jones has even been turning the ball over, something he is known for not doing.


I think they should start Allen over Tyus. I know they may have promised they would start him but they could say they have. It's not like it matters.

Then bring Beal in first off the bench for whoever comes out, then Royce, then Tyus, then Morris or Okogie.....Oso goes in when Plumlee comes out.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#156 » by Slim Charless » Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:07 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:Jones seems to be underperforming lately. I agree that Beal off the bench has given us a great punch, but Beal can argue that he has been better offensively and defensively over the starting PG. Jones has even been turning the ball over, something he is known for not doing.


I think they should start Allen over Tyus. I know they may have promised they would start him but they could say they have. It's not like it matters.

Then bring Beal in first off the bench for whoeever comes out, then Royce, then Tyus, then Morris or Okogie.....Oso goes in when Plumlee comes out.


So you wanna run Greyson at the point? I don't like that idea. At all. Kinda takes us back to what we were before imo. We need to have an actual guy to play the position.

If we're talking about adding Fultz when he's healthy and playing him there, that's another thing. I've just had enough of playing guys out of their natural position.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#157 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:17 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:Jones seems to be underperforming lately. I agree that Beal off the bench has given us a great punch, but Beal can argue that he has been better offensively and defensively over the starting PG. Jones has even been turning the ball over, something he is known for not doing.


I think they should start Allen over Tyus. I know they may have promised they would start him but they could say they have. It's not like it matters.

Then bring Beal in first off the bench for whoeever comes out, then Royce, then Tyus, then Morris or Okogie.....Oso goes in when Plumlee comes out.


So you wanna run Greyson at the point? I don't like that idea. At all. Kinda takes us back to what we were before imo. We need to have an actual guy to play the position.

If we're talking about adding Fultz when he's healthy and playing him there, that's another thing. I've just had enough of playing guys out of their natural position.


No, I want more size and defense (Royce to start would be fine too, but I figure with Dunn, Grayson makes more sense as the 2nd guard). Book is running the point. Tyus is playing a small shooting guard, and he doesn't add much for defense. If you are not going to have Tyus initiating the offense, there is no point in starting him at all. Grayson is better as a guy you want hustling, shooting the 3 and defending.

Tyus dribbles the ball up past halfcourt and throws it to KD or Book and then runs to the corner.

There is very little reason for us to be playing Tyus ahead of like 7 players if he is not going to be running the offense, playing point. His 3pt shooting is good but so are the alternates, and we need most hustle and defense.

I'm saying this as a guy who loves Tyus too. But when Book is making it a point to be the primary distributor and we have him and KD initiating offense, we need more defense/role playing around them, 3&D guys than PGs. I know a couple of people still wish we had Paul but I think we need more size and D.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#158 » by Slim Charless » Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:43 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I think they should start Allen over Tyus. I know they may have promised they would start him but they could say they have. It's not like it matters.

Then bring Beal in first off the bench for whoeever comes out, then Royce, then Tyus, then Morris or Okogie.....Oso goes in when Plumlee comes out.


So you wanna run Greyson at the point? I don't like that idea. At all. Kinda takes us back to what we were before imo. We need to have an actual guy to play the position.

If we're talking about adding Fultz when he's healthy and playing him there, that's another thing. I've just had enough of playing guys out of their natural position.


No, I want more size and defense (Royce to start would be fine too, but I figure with Dunn, Grayson makes more sense as the 2nd guard). Book is running the point. Tyus is playing a small shooting guard, and he doesn't add much for defense. If you are not going to have Tyus initiating the offense, there is no point in starting him at all. Grayson is better as a guy you want hustling, shooting the 3 and defending.

Tyus dribbles the ball up past halfcourt and throws it to KD or Book and then runs to the corner.

There is very little reason for us to be playing Tyus ahead of like 7 players if he is not going to be running the offense, playing point. His 3pt shooting is good but so are the alternates, and we need most hustle and defense.

I'm saying this as a guy who loves Tyus too. But when Book is making it a point to be the primary distributor and we have him and KD initiating offense, we need more defense/role playing around them, 3&D guys than PGs. I know a couple of people still wish we had Paul but I think we need more size and D.


I've never liked Point Book. I'd rather keep Tyus in there and have him run it more. Don't like Greyson starting still but I get your point about balance needed with Dunn out there
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#159 » by NapoleonII » Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:48 pm

I see what you're saying, but Tyus is mostly there to not TURN it over. That's been Booker and KD's problem since they started playing together without a PG. In this league today, turnovers are death. They're easy buckets or 3 point shots for the other team, they're less 3 point attempts for us, less free throws.

And it took Allen a few games to figure it out, but he's been brilliant off the bench. Not every guy can do that.

I think our size will be fine with Dunn (6'8) and a real center we can trade for. Tyus/Book/Dunn/KD and a real freaking center, please.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part II 

Post#160 » by sunskerr » Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:34 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
garrick wrote:
Even without taking Doncic we could have kept the core and built on it by adding a mix of veterans and youth but JJ squandered our window and yeah that blown pick on Jalen Smith hurt a lot which was compounded by us just giving him up for nothing.

We just never were very deep unlike the Celtics team that is super super deep and looks to be a contender for the next 3-4 years.


Yeah teams just have too much depth nowadays. And the depth allows you to make big trades while still having decent players who can fill in the minutes. The top teams are putting out lineups with two stars surrounded by good role players.

Then there is fit...only one rock to go around. Teams don't seem to have more than two guys who need the ball or who only impact the game by scoring a lot.

I can see a case being made for this year's Chris Paul being a more effective player on our roster than Bradley Beal. But ideally that 3rd guy would be a wing who can sort of do it all or a big who can play off the ball but get you 20 or whatever. Or Chris Paul from 2021.

A guy who takes the ball out of Bookers and KDs hands and takes shots away from them? Maybe not the best fit.

Like from a fit standpoint Butler at least to me right now when I think about it from that standpoint, makes more sense than Beal I think. Better defender, dirty work guy, doesn't need to score 20+ all the time, bigger body at 6'7". He can just focus on defense mostly, but still be a threat. Get you 15-20 but probably closer to 18/5/4 on great D.

Oh no am I talking myself into Butler?? Damn if we have to give up that pick and give him $120m at 36 years old lol.


Sometimes it doesn't feel like you've been watching much of the Suns, because the some of the points don't make much sense based on what we see. Are you basing everything on the LEBRON stat? Do you think Chris Paul would be better to have than Durant? You talk about taking shots away from Book but has not shot very well the last couple months until these Charlotte and Houston games. At sometimes awful, like Memphis and Charlotte. And then we have Tyus Jones, who basically does the same thing Paul does.

BECAUSE Book has become a great passer, Paul would make no sense in his current form. Jones doesn't really make sense at this point given Book is the primary facilitator. The only saving grace there is he shoots the 3 well. Paul doesn't do.

The funny thing is although I have usually complained about too much iso, which we would still see a bit of, now mostly from KD, sometimes I feel we overpass now...like 3 guys will get the ball wide open and just continue to pass it.

Unless you are just saying if we had Paul back, Book would just go back into not being the distributor he is and go back into his scoring role, and we wouldn't have Tyus, etc. But aside from the leadership and passing, what really elevated Paul to near MVP caliber in his first 2 years with us was the fact that he was so clutch and could score at will and take over games down the stretch if needed. He doesn't do that anymore. He couldn't do it with us the last year and a half. If he could, especially when we had KD, if he was even close to the same player he was prior to the last 5 games of that Dallas series, we are super legit, because he was that good. He's just not the same player anymore.


Paul instead of Durant? Huh? Where did you get that idea lol? Yeah it doesn't feel like I watch much Suns because I told you I don't a few days ago :lol:

The reason you don't necessarily want to take shots away from Booker and Durant is because they are strictly better offensive playmakers than Beal. If you're giving the ball to a worse offensive player to run sets through, generally speaking you're not maximizing your offensive production. Like if you asked yourself "how do we score more" then you just say "well we use our best player more" etc like how dantoni said to himself one night that his team should just shoot more 3s to score more.

This is (sort of) why stuff like Luka running every play works even if you hate it (I don't really like watching that either). Now obviously I'm not saying run Booker as Luka etc that would be taking me out of context.

But this is basically one of the reasons Beal is getting benched. We already have a 3rd ball handler in Tyus. The starting lineup just needs someone to sit in the corner, dive for loose balls etc..We are more or less agreeing with each other in a roundabout way. More Booker less Beal (by extension less Tyus too). That's why coming off the bench but still finishing games when we need a guy who can punish tighter defenses works in theory.

As for Butler again he just a straight upgrade no questions asked on both sides of the ball...in a vacuum. Defensively he clears Beal by a landslide. Offensively the question is how does his midrange-oriented game fit with Booker and Durant. That would be my main concern (basketball-wise). But Booker is taking a career high 41% of his shots from 3 this year. So maybe that's not as big a deal. Idk, just something to think about. S

But I am praying for this new 6th man Beal thing to work out so we don't have to make another draft pick trade. Also there is a sense of stability at least right now that having a guy like Beal on th bench brings because you know that your bench has a guy who can get you 20-25. Didn't have that before.

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