NBA Playoffs 2025 (Poll created for Finals prediction)

[sunsbg]

Haven't watched the game yet, I assume Mikal had a great play on last possession as his shooting was bad again based on the stats. It's ok though being 4th option unlike Tatum who's been even worse.

The crazy results continue. At least OKC appear to bring a win for the favorites.

Edit: So Mikal got hot in Q4 after being scoreless so far and then stole the ball on last possession again. Good for him and Knicks though Tatum and Celtics have done a great choke job in those two games.

[thamadkant]

Knicks is my East team so I'm happy they are up 2 zero.

Brunson has surpassed Booker in within 2 years of becoming the main man.

[BurningHeart]

He did it again.

Hope he keeps up with these big moments and continues to deepdick Ishbia. More heart in his finger than three Kevin Durants.

I'll continue to point it out because this franchise deserves to hear it. Same way we should have had Doncic and didn't and now he's a **** Laker. When you keep warning about what's gonna happen and they end up happening exactly as you portend, you kinda start getting sick of it and start being acerbic about it.

**** them. They deserve it.

[MrMiyagi]

Come on y'all, Mikal is not even close to KD's level because he actually makes his team better and gets wins instead of chasing his own stats.

[sunsbg]

Funny Mikal was getting same "love" from Knicks fans KD is getting from Suns fans. No need to overreact. KD is not a leader, but put him in place of Mikal next to a leader in Brunson, a top big in KAT and two good role players in OG and Hart - it's a better team that won't have a losing record vs top teams, barely make it past DET and barely steal both 2nd round games. In isolation and for a team build like the Knicks you still take KD. That's a fantasy world though.

[thamadkant]

I like Mikal but KD is better player. Just that Suns brought in KD to be Booker sidekick when KD is not a good second option player.... you need players like Mikal around KD.

KD trade was very bad because Suns traded the farm and catered to Booker rather than building a team.

[schnakenpopanz]

no one is comparing KD to Mikal. You need fitting pieces to each other and a well balanced team.
KD is and was a wrong selection for that existing team back then and is now.
Mikal + Ayton ü Cam Jo + picks + a good pg is way better than what we have right now and will have in the next 4-10 years.

[BobbieL]

no one is comparing KD to Mikal. You need fitting pieces to each other and a well balanced team.
KD is and was a wrong selection for that existing team back then and is now.
Mikal + Ayton ü Cam Jo + picks + a good pg is way better than what we have right now and will have in the next 4-10 years.

This x 100!

That team from the day before the trade would have kicked this teams butt in a 7 game series in four games with 20 point wins

Nobody is saying Mikal is better than Durant - just that Mikal is a glue guy. And I had no problem trading Cam or Saric or Payne or Crowder plus a couple FRPs -- but Mikal and FOUR FRPs was a bridge too far for me

Ugh!! Could have just traded Crowder for 5 SRPs!

[wheezy]

no one is comparing KD to Mikal. You need fitting pieces to each other and a well balanced team.
KD is and was a wrong selection for that existing team back then and is now.
Mikal + Ayton ü Cam Jo + picks + a good pg is way better than what we have right now and will have in the next 4-10 years.

I think the team we had around KD+Book immediately after the original trade was fine, although lacking depth. CP3 + Book + KD + Ayton definitely fits better than what we've been running since then. There were a few issues that season pre-trade that made the situation worse -> the Jae Crowder situation, not having drafted Hali so we'd have a clear successor to CP, and the original offseason trade for KD not going through which would have given the Suns more time to get the bench together.

[ChuckS]

no one is comparing KD to Mikal. You need fitting pieces to each other and a well balanced team.
KD is and was a wrong selection for that existing team back then and is now.
Mikal + Ayton ü Cam Jo + picks + a good pg is way better than what we have right now and will have in the next 4-10 years.

This x 100!

That team from the day before the trade would have kicked this teams butt in a 7 game series in four games with 20 point wins

Nobody is saying Mikal is better than Durant - just that Mikal is a glue guy. And I had no problem trading Cam or Saric or Payne or Crowder plus a couple FRPs -- but Mikal and FOUR FRPs was a bridge too far for me

Ugh!! Could have just traded Crowder for 5 SRPs!

If I understand correctly the belief is that that team was decimated by the trades for Durant and Beal, and I do not disagree. An all time great point guard, and size with quality in Ayton, Mikal, and Cam were surrendered. This team has shown to have no quality size except KD, and certainly no point guard like CP3. The sheer numbers lost left it with only Beal, Royce and Allen for quality depth, IMO. (I do think Bol and Richards are playable, though, and Dunn, Oso, and Gillespie have yet untapped potential.) The poor results subsequently seem to be being attributed to KD, and to a lesser extent Book.

The current argument seems to be about Mikal and Kevin. I think it would be obvious to most NBA sources, or knowledgeable fans, that the original team with Durant would have been infinitely better than it was with even the excellent Mikal. Maybe that is only my opinion and I can live with it and any "slings and arrows". Glue guys are good. I like glue guys. But greatness is even better. Durant's legacy has already been chiseled in granite. He is also a consummate team player. Trying to deny that by alleging his achievements are self serving and not difference makers is IMO patently ludicrous, as are ignoring his excellent defense, versatility of other important facets of his overall game, or attempting to minimize his awesome scoring ability. Claiming, because of his professional demeanor, that he is indifferent to winning, is belied by his sheer dominance and is even worse.

Having said all that, I have been less fond of a few other great players. So I can understand and accept anyone disagreeing.

[BobbieL]

no one is comparing KD to Mikal. You need fitting pieces to each other and a well balanced team.
KD is and was a wrong selection for that existing team back then and is now.
Mikal + Ayton ü Cam Jo + picks + a good pg is way better than what we have right now and will have in the next 4-10 years.

This x 100!

That team from the day before the trade would have kicked this teams butt in a 7 game series in four games with 20 point wins

Nobody is saying Mikal is better than Durant - just that Mikal is a glue guy. And I had no problem trading Cam or Saric or Payne or Crowder plus a couple FRPs -- but Mikal and FOUR FRPs was a bridge too far for me

Ugh!! Could have just traded Crowder for 5 SRPs!

If I understand correctly the belief is that that team was decimated by the trades for Durant and Beal, and I do not disagree. An all time great point guard, and size with quality in Ayton, Mikal, and Cam were surrendered. This team has shown to have no quality size except KD, and certainly no point guard like CP3. The sheer numbers lost left it with only Beal, Royce and Allen for quality depth, IMO. (I do think Bol and Richards are playable, though, and Dunn, Oso, and Gillespie have yet untapped potential.) The poor results subsequently seem to be being attributed to KD, and to a lesser extent Book.

The current argument seems to be about Mikal and Kevin. I think it would be obvious to most NBA sources, or knowledgeable fans, that the original team with Durant would have been infinitely better than it was with even the excellent Mikal. Maybe that is only my opinion and I can live with it and any "slings and arrows". Glue guys are good. I like glue guys. But greatness is even better. Durant's legacy has already been chiseled in granite. He is also a consummate team player. Trying to deny that by alleging his achievements are self serving and not difference makers is IMO patently ludicrous, as are ignoring his excellent defense, versatility of other important facets of his overall game, or attempting to minimize his awesome scoring ability. Claiming, because of his professional demeanor, that he is indifferent to winning, is belied by his sheer dominance and is even worse.

Having said all that, I have been less fond of a few other great players. So I can understand and accept anyone disagreeing.

you are right that if Ishbia had kind of stopped with the super team model - and adding Beal while trading Ayton and Coumara -- team would probably still be better that it was

but the Durant trade coupled with the two others just shot the team to crapola ville

[thamadkant]

no one is comparing KD to Mikal. You need fitting pieces to each other and a well balanced team.
KD is and was a wrong selection for that existing team back then and is now.
Mikal + Ayton ü Cam Jo + picks + a good pg is way better than what we have right now and will have in the next 4-10 years.

Turn back time... all the suns really needed was a Kyle Lowry off the bench to help with leadership when CP3 is off or injured.... would have won 2 rings.

[SunsRback4Good]

no one is comparing KD to Mikal. You need fitting pieces to each other and a well balanced team.
KD is and was a wrong selection for that existing team back then and is now.
Mikal + Ayton ü Cam Jo + picks + a good pg is way better than what we have right now and will have in the next 4-10 years.

Turn back time... all the suns really needed was a Kyle Lowry off the bench to help with leadership when CP3 is off or injured.... would have won 2 rings.

If I could turn back time
If I could find a way
I'd take back those words that've hurt you and you'd stay

[bwgood77]

Imagine if two goats, Bridges and Haliburton, were on this team instead of Booker, the loser with the biggest paycheck of all time. Stupidity knows no bounds.

I mean, without the KD trade and a different draft pick one year (a more obvious one at that), we could have Haliburton, Book, Bridges, Cam, whatever we got in return from Crowder, and Ayton or whatever we could get in return from him (something other than Nurkic).

Plus our 23 pick, our pick this year and a number of other picks. I'd feel pretty good about that team.

[bwgood77]

Bridges will never be an elite scorer but he's absolutely a glue guy you want on a winning team.

Chemistry matters.

How come he was an elite scorer during his last season with Phoenix & with nets? Maybe it’s cause the Knicks have a different system? It’s not easy being an elite scorer when you gotta share the ball with towns and Brunson who also look for their shots.

He really did explode with the Nets but I think also teams figured him out and it's not just a matter of him finding his shots as he's been very unclutch this year in the playoffs as his shot has been somewhat shakier than usual.

26PPG for him was always unsustainable and he's really at best 20PPG on good efficiency as he's neither athletic enough to score near the rim nor is he an elite 3 point shooter.

Who really cares? He plays an important part on a team that has 2 go to scorers (and OG had also been a key scorer in the past), and he is more of a glue guy anyway. You don't necessarily want him as your #1 or #2 option.

He is an iron man, never misses games, plays a ton of minutes, is a GREAT locker room, chemistry and glue guy, and exactly the type of guy you want on your team. He always ranked very high on best teammates awards, and won't be surprised if he wins one in the next couple of years.

[BobbieL]

How come he was an elite scorer during his last season with Phoenix & with nets? Maybe it’s cause the Knicks have a different system? It’s not easy being an elite scorer when you gotta share the ball with towns and Brunson who also look for their shots.

He really did explode with the Nets but I think also teams figured him out and it's not just a matter of him finding his shots as he's been very unclutch this year in the playoffs as his shot has been somewhat shakier than usual.

26PPG for him was always unsustainable and he's really at best 20PPG on good efficiency as he's neither athletic enough to score near the rim nor is he an elite 3 point shooter.

Who really cares? He plays an important part on a team that has 2 go to scorers (and OG had also been a key scorer in the past), and he is more of a glue guy anyway. You don't necessarily want him as your #1 or #2 option.

He is an iron man, never misses games, plays a ton of minutes, is a GREAT locker room, chemistry and glue guy, and exactly the type of guy you want on your team. He always ranked very high on best teammates awards, and won't be surprised if he wins one in the next couple of years.

And I always thought Mikal was the perfect player to pair with Durant and Booker as he would do a lot of the stuff they don't do.

Hence, why I thought it was stupid to include him as you wanted Mikal WITH KD and Booker - even more than Ayton

[garrick]

OKC just seem a mess offensively if SGA isn't scoring at his usual pace.

They have a bunch of draft picks which will be late 1sts so they won't be super valuable but maybe they don't have to give up too much to get KD back?

[Bogyo]

OKC just seem a mess offensively if SGA isn't scoring at his usual pace.

They have a bunch of draft picks which will be late 1sts so they won't be super valuable but maybe they don't have to give up too much to get KD back?

Yep, they have too many. This year they have 15 and 24 and 44. In the next 3-4 years (according to chatgpt) they have 13 first and 17 seconds - which seems about right. You simply can not have that many rookies while you also have a young core. But I doubt they give up a lot for KD, they are smarter than to add him and ruin the chemistry of this group. If anything they will go and try to make a big trade for a good young scorer next to Shai. Like give up all those picks and the rest of the farm for Ant/Luka or something, not for a 38year old dude with no heart.

[thamadkant]

Imagine if two goats, Bridges and Haliburton, were on this team instead of Booker, the loser with the biggest paycheck of all time. Stupidity knows no bounds.

I mean, without the KD trade and a different draft pick one year (a more obvious one at that), we could have Haliburton, Book, Bridges, Cam, whatever we got in return from Crowder, and Ayton or whatever we could get in return from him (something other than Nurkic).

Plus our 23 pick, our pick this year and a number of other picks. I'd feel pretty good about that team.

Would have kept Ayton for sure. He liked playing for the Suns back then when he had his friends in Mikal and Cam Johnson. I'd even keep Crowder, his true value is his locker room presence and he was the Suns answer to Draymond Green, he stood up for his team mates.

[garrick]

OKC just seem a mess offensively if SGA isn't scoring at his usual pace.

They have a bunch of draft picks which will be late 1sts so they won't be super valuable but maybe they don't have to give up too much to get KD back?

Yep, they have too many. This year they have 15 and 24 and 44. In the next 3-4 years (according to chatgpt) they have 13 first and 17 seconds - which seems about right. You simply can not have that many rookies while you also have a young core. But I doubt they give up a lot for KD, they are smarter than to add him and ruin the chemistry of this group. If anything they will go and try to make a big trade for a good young scorer next to Shai. Like give up all those picks and the rest of the farm for Ant/Luka or something, not for a 38year old dude with no heart.

I just looked at their salary and any trade is going to have to include Hartenstein at 30M per year and then add another 20M with filler which might be tough but maybe doable?

Maybe Hartenstein + Kenrich Williams + Aaron Wiggins plus the some of their 2nds or late 1sts? I do think Hartenstein is overpaid but I don't know if OKC could easily replace what he brings but then you're sort of offsetting some of that lack of defense with elite offense so maybe it works out?