2016 Draft Thread Part 4

Post #1401 » by **Qwigglez** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:04 pm

Bledsoe and 13 for Okafor, draft Dunn at No 4, call it a day.
Dunn/Booker/Warren/Okafor/Len

Post #1402 » by **bwgood77** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:04 pm

NavLDO wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/745982669872193536

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Sound like a guard is coming to town Hield. Draft him then go from there. Much safer and more ready pick.

How is he safer?? Safer than whom??? Chriss? Yeah, likely, but I'd Trust Ellenson, Davis, and Poeltl over Hield. Like was said,

"He drives left almost exclusively..."

"He can be a little bit predictable when putting the ball on the floor, as he almost always pulls up off the dribble or tries to execute a step back when driving left, and will try to get all the way to the rim when going right (which is rare)."

"Hield also doesn't offer much as a passer or facilitator, sporting the second lowest pure point rating and assist to turnover ratio among the shooting guards in our Top-100 prospect rankings."

"The other pressing question surrounding Hield is his defense."

"Still, he is undoubtedly undersized for a shooting guard at 6'4 ½ in shoes, which limits his versatility at the NBA level. While he played mostly the small forward position in college, his lack of size will make it difficult for him to cover many of the bigger wings he'll encounter, and he does not appear to possess great lateral quickness to stay in front of ultra-athletic guards."

How is that safer?? Because he can catch and shoot? He can't successfully drive to the Right...how difficult will that be to defend?? Not at all. And he can't defend SFs or SGs, so great, we get another poor defender.

If we are going to go "Guard or Bust", then I'd rather they go for Dunn, but ultimately, I'd prefer Baldwin, or a different PG later at 28 or34.

I think if we draft a SG with our first pick it will be Murray.

saintEscaton · Post #1403 » by **saintEscaton** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:06 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:I'm not as big of a Bender fan as bwgood, but I think we will deeply regret passing on him for Chriss. Seems like its a foregone conclusion

I have plenty of worries about Bender too, specifically getting pushed around in the post against nba bigs, but I have bigger worries about everyone else who are either low iq, extremely turnover prone, lacking defensive skills, etc. He's just simply BPA if he is there.

I'll be ok with Chriss but he seems to have far more red flags. It's a very scary pick. May be exciting, but my bust factor with him is definitely higher than Bender.

I wouldn't totally mind Dunn if we really are thinking about or going to trade Bledsoe but Bender is definitely more intriguing.

Chriss has the 3rd highest chance to be an All-Star within his first 5 seasons according to ESPN's Analytics projections. I see a solid starter if improves his BBIQ and puts it together, but to reach that level he will need to be like the best roll man in the league or a money LMAesqe midrange/at the elbows game

Villalobos · Post #1404 » by **Villalobos** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:07 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Kris Dunn has significant traction in Boston as No. 3 pick, sources tell @TheVertical. No final decision -- and trades remain on table.

Ainge trying to scare the 76ers. "Oh, we loooove Dunn. I guess you need to trade with us because he won't be there for anyone else. We'll take one Okafor and one Dario Saric, please."

NavLDO · Post #1405 » by **NavLDO** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:08 pm

JMac1 wrote:BW. I am wanting a guard, because if the Suns prefer Chriss over Bender, there has to be reasons....maybe he is more hype? And the Earl Clark failure that was brought up has me afraid of Chriss now AND that was the year Curry came out and MJ died. So Prince has died this year and Hield is coming out and we are thinking about another project player.......creepy....

First off, Chriss isn't Earl Clark; so because one athletic SF/PF failed in the past, we should never draft another one?

OK, with that logic, we shouldn't draft Hield because Marshall failed here. Yeah, Marshall was a pass first and Hield is a ball-hog, but, hey, they are both Guards, right?

Enough with the Earl Clark comparisons--that wasn't during McD's Tenure. McD looks at prospects differently, and has different draft strategies from back in 2009--7 YEARS AGO....

Post #1406 » by **Qwigglez** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:12 pm

Man just watching some Dunn highlights makes me think this kid is going to be special. He has the length and athleticism to guard even SG's IMO. If we are going to tank mode and Dunn is there at 4 (Bender is gone) I say to take him, trade Bledsoe maybe for 6th pick and draft Chriss there.

sunsbg · Post #1407 » by **sunsbg** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:16 pm

I wish I felt so excited watching Bender's tape as I do with this guy :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnfdkQVqqR8

Younger than Bender, already better body, also more skilled IMO.

TeamTragic · Post #1408 » by **TeamTragic** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:22 pm

JMac1 wrote:Ok gotta go hit legs, abs, and cardio before I turn into the couch potato for the draft. Hopefully there will be some good news when I return.

Just that you are in better shape than Tucker :lol:

Gorilla Warfare · Post #1409 » by **Gorilla Warfare** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:26 pm

Anyone else feel like the closer we get to the draft the more likely we are to make a dumb trade? I'm scared to refresh my Twitter timeline.

Post #1410 » by **bwgood77** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:29 pm

Gorilla Warfare wrote:Anyone else feel like the closer we get to the draft the more likely we are to make a dumb trade? I'm scared to refresh my Twitter timeline.

I always feel like we are about to make a dumb trade.

NavLDO · Post #1411 » by **NavLDO** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:33 pm

Saberestar wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Saberestar wrote:This.

We are going to draft another low IQ player who doesn't know or wants to pass the ball and does not have a clue about being a team player.

Archie Goodwin, Brandon Knight, The Morris Brothers, Gerald Green, Shannon Brown, Michael Beasley......we always have a good pair of players with that mentality ...and now Chriss who seems another player like that.

So who do you want then? Who has a high BBIQ in the top 5? Dunn? Who TOs the ball all the time? Is that high BBIQ? Should we draft Booker's Back-up at 4? Skal, Brown...are those guys with high BBIQ?

The fact is, we don't have a heck of a lot of choice here, and if we are shopping Bledsoe and take Dunn at 4, than so be it, but until that happens, Chriss appears to be the frontrunner for us...then again, I came straight to these boards this morning, so for all I know, something big ha changed....I'm only on pg 56 so far...

I want Jamal Murray. My second option Hield and then Bender.

I only want one of those three.

And do not tell me that Murray or Hield play the same position of Booker...they can play together. -- Sure they can. That doesn't mean they SHOULD. Bledsoe-Hield-Booker-Warren???-Len??. Who plays defense, there, other than Bledsoe and Len. Hield can't keep up with SGs, Booker will get over-powered by SFs, as will Warren at the 4.

Tell you what. Show me ONE Big Board that has those 3 as 4-6 best players. You can't...Why?? Because Chriss and Brown are listed above them in most--DX, NBADraftNet, CBS, etc. If we go BPA, then we better go Brown, because he's general ranked highest of all prospects between 4-6.

Reaching for need is a really bad thing in the draft. -- You don't want to reach for need, fine, take BPA, but hate to tell you that Dunn and Brown are ranked ahead of Hield or Murray. And funny you don't think that Dunn has flexibility, but Hield does. I'd trust Dunn defending PGs and SGs more than Hield defending anything. And while Dunn isn't a great shooter, that's fine, because we have that in Booker already. And scoing with Warren. What we NEED are non-ball dominant Guards, and you want to take the two highest ball-dominant Guards in the draft. Tell me, how doe that help us, exactly??

After Simmons and Ingram the three better prospects in the draft are backcourt players... Murray, Hield and Dunn. Keep it simple.

Take one of those three. Dunn is the worse of them IMO and he can only play one position, so I prefer the versatile shooters over him.

I do not care about Knigh, Price or Goodwin...they are not big time players or something like that.

MrMiyagi · Post #1412 » by **MrMiyagi** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:33 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Gorilla Warfare wrote:Anyone else feel like the closer we get to the draft the more likely we are to make a dumb trade? I'm scared to refresh my Twitter timeline.

I always feel like we are about to make a dumb trade.

Post #1413 » by **rsavaj** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:34 pm

still dreaming of that scenario that Gambo dropped at the end of his segment on Doug/Wolf: somehow moving into the top 7 so we could draft both Chriss AND Bender

Knight+13 for 7 from Denver? somehow?

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1414 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:34 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Gorilla Warfare wrote:Anyone else feel like the closer we get to the draft the more likely we are to make a dumb trade? I'm scared to refresh my Twitter timeline.

I always feel like we are about to make a dumb trade.

Oh yeah I'm terrified what shortsighted deal could be in the works. Dodged the first bullet with not dealing for Thad, hope it's a good sign.

Ahh the life of a suns fan lol

aewyatt7 · Post #1415 » by **aewyatt7** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:34 pm

If Celtics pass on Dunn. I think we trade with sixers. Yet we move knight not Bledsoe.

NavLDO · Post #1416 » by **NavLDO** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:42 pm

SunZel wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
SunZel wrote:Would really hate the Chriss pick. I really want the Suns to be like the Spurs someday with a bunch of high iq players that do all the little things and make sacrifices to win games. Lack of effort on defense and rebounding with his talents is inexcusable. This will become real apparent in playoff games.

Also watching these playoffs made me feel that Bledsoe is very valuable in todays league for his defense at pg position. Steph curry was forced to hide every time they played elite guards. so i hope we don't trade him and draft murray.

I'm guessing your one of those guys that had their career mastered at age 18,then. Congrats. People that live in the real world usually take a few years, after 18, to learn and hone their craft. So let's just dismiss the 18 YO because he doesn't have every facet of the game worked out already...

He can shoot. He can dribble. He could potentially defend different positions. He is intelligent. He is charming.

Chriss, 18, also is relatively new to basketball and it shows. He has played only five years of organized basketball, which seems obvious now that he fouled out 15 times in 34 games as a Huskies freshman. There also is a maturity issue, not abnormal for a teen and something he addresses without prompting.

This is what frustrates me with this whole draft process--Seniors show a much better understanding of the game than Freshman coming out--shocking, I know...

Just because Chriss has some issues, DOESN'T mean he won't be coached up in those areas, and like this report states, Chriss is intelligent, he's just raw.

You say lack of effort is inexcusable?? Are you sure it's lack of effort, and not something else? Just because a guy isn't running 100% all of the time doesn't mean he has a lack of effort, it's more likely figuring his role out, more than anything.

Here's the thing though, a lot of players in the top 10 are young, but i'm only dismissing chriss because the facets of the game that he is missing currently are not easily corrected like effort and rebounding. I feel effort becomes the most important aspect when the games really count like in the playoffs. Chriss is the only player whose effort im questioning. Also, yes, i'm sure its a lack of effort. What does his role have to do with boxing out, getting rebounds or making a pass for an easier shot than to take a contested one. Dude is an athletic freak why cant he get more boards than Sabonis who is not nearly as athletic? Rebounding is effort.

No, Rebounding is equally technique as well as effort. I'll say it again. How does a guy foul out 15 games and not show "effort". How many of those fouls were 'over the back' fouls in attempting rebounding? He's was one of the most prolific Offensive Rebounding PFs in this class. Is that also "no effort"

Sorry, sell your 'effort' story to someone thinks fouling out and Offensiv Rebounds aren't result of effort, because I'm not buying it. He needs coaching in how to be in the right position for defensive rebounding/box out, etc. That's not an 'effort' issue, it's a 'being relatively new to the game' issue.

Post #1417 » by **Qwigglez** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:42 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Gorilla Warfare wrote:Anyone else feel like the closer we get to the draft the more likely we are to make a dumb trade? I'm scared to refresh my Twitter timeline.

I always feel like we are about to make a dumb trade.

Oh yeah I'm terrified what shortsighted deal could be in the works. Dodged the first bullet with not dealing for Thad, hope it's a good sign.

Ahh the life of a suns fan lol

Yeah when I first saw that I thought damn well we are bout to trade No 13 for Thad, which is basically Kieff for Thad.

Blackification · Post #1418 » by **Blackification** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:45 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Gorilla Warfare wrote:Anyone else feel like the closer we get to the draft the more likely we are to make a dumb trade? I'm scared to refresh my Twitter timeline.

I always feel like we are about to make a dumb trade.

I dont remember McD making any major trades during draft time. He has been pretty solid during he drafts. Its the off season free agency overpay fiesta is scarier

Gorilla Warfare · Post #1419 » by **Gorilla Warfare** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:48 pm

Blackification wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Gorilla Warfare wrote:Anyone else feel like the closer we get to the draft the more likely we are to make a dumb trade? I'm scared to refresh my Twitter timeline.

I always feel like we are about to make a dumb trade.

I dont remember McD making any major trades during draft time. He has been pretty solid during he drafts. Its the off season free agency overpay fiesta is scarier

This draft is different though, there are so many trade-able picks in the lottery this year.

NavLDO · Post #1420 » by **NavLDO** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:48 pm

ginobiliflops wrote:
dremill24 wrote:
Waylay13 wrote:For all the guys that are singing for Hield and J. Murray I keep going back to the famous saying by Red Auerbach, "You can't teach height." Both Hield and J. Murray are small for their natural position of shooting guard and both of them dont have the skills that Booker has. At least with Chriss or Bender you have some biggest that can learn more about to play the game but you cant teach Hield and Murray how to grow another couple inches.

When did 6'5" become small for a SG?

Buddy Hield squashed the notion that he's an undersized SG with his superb 6-9 wingspan on a 6-5 frame, and 8-5 standing reach measurements, at the NBA draft combine.

And yet he still can't defend SGs due to speed, which leaves SFs, which he's too small. Either way you look at it, Hield is a relatively poor defender and has one year out of four as a great shooter--no thanks, I'll take the 3 to 3.5 year younger prospect with upside at 4. 13th? Sure, but not at 4.

Who do you most want at 4?