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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1401 » by Saberestar » Tue Dec 6, 2016 7:50 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Front page article on realgm: Otto Porter Expected To Receive Max Contract Offers In Free Agency

LOL. Really?

It would be smart for us to sit back on the sidelines and "punt" on free agency once more year. Let teams handicap themselves with another round of maxing role players. We should offer only the true stars max deals AND if (when) they turn us down, we just

And we should absolutely try to move Len. Some team will max him and then we either have to let him walk OR pay him star money when he is only a backup center.


Of course Otto Porter should probably get a max. I was tired back in the day of our owner being cheap. If you can't pony up like the rest of the league is doing, sell the damn team. These guys are making money hand over fist. You can't just let the only assets you have walk out the door everyone involved with this league is overpaid.

You expect to find some really talented chump to come along and say "Hey, I can be a top 10 center for you guys and will take pennies on the dollar!" Not gonna happen.

Exactly. No one is gonna give us a trophy because we don't have bad contracts.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1402 » by thamadkant » Tue Dec 6, 2016 9:16 pm

Suns are in a bit of a dilemma though..

The team is no way near close to contending for a playoff push.

But are due to be maxed out this coming off-season.

Len will command 15 Million a year, just like Mozgov.
Warren will command close to Harrison Barnes money... 16 Million a year.

They still have Knight, Chandler and Bledsoe...

so you have 5 players earning 14+ million a year and going no where.



I think Suns should sign and trade Len if he commands 15 million or more...
Warren is a keeper... UNLESS... he can bring a superstar to the Suns.





I've been keeping my eyes on the Pacers. They may want to blow it up if they continue to hobble around 0.500 mark.
They keep their youth and they unload George, Teague and Ellis. But if they cant unload all 3, they will probably just keep the them and hope to get better. They have potential though.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1403 » by Zelaznyrules » Tue Dec 6, 2016 9:19 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Front page article on realgm: Otto Porter Expected To Receive Max Contract Offers In Free Agency

LOL. Really?

It would be smart for us to sit back on the sidelines and "punt" on free agency once more year. Let teams handicap themselves with another round of maxing role players. We should offer only the true stars max deals AND if (when) they turn us down, we just

And we should absolutely try to move Len. Some team will max him and then we either have to let him walk OR pay him star money when he is only a backup center.


Of course Otto Porter should probably get a max. I was tired back in the day of our owner being cheap. If you can't pony up like the rest of the league is doing, sell the damn team. These guys are making money hand over fist. You can't just let the only assets you have walk out the door everyone involved with this league is overpaid.

You expect to find some really talented chump to come along and say "Hey, I can be a top 10 center for you guys and will take pennies on the dollar!" Not gonna happen.


I haven't really paid much attention to Washington or Porter but is he really that good? I would think max money should be reserved for players capable of being the 2nd best, perhaps 3rd best, player on a championship contending team. Do you see him as that kind of player or do you look at the distribution of cap money differently than I do.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1404 » by Weemsickew14 » Tue Dec 6, 2016 9:25 pm

I saw that Orlando is looking to the trade market for scoring help. Knight to Orlando makes too much sense. With a struggling Payton, they would probably be interested in Knight. What would we want though?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1405 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Dec 6, 2016 9:34 pm

Weemsickew14 wrote:I saw that Orlando is looking to the trade market for scoring help. Knight to Orlando makes too much sense. With a struggling Payton, they would probably be interested in Knight. What would we want though?


I think we'll be better off trading Bled. I know, I know, we've invested a lot in him. But he's playing great, has three years left on his contract, and we suuuuuck. There's no reason to think he'll still be here when our core comes of age. IMO, this is the time to move on. Orlando has plenty to offer - Payton, Hezonja, Zimmerman, but most importantly, picks.

Bledsoe's the guy I'm looking to move. Knight I'd keep for now. See if maybe he can push his value out of the basement as a starter. There's always hope.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1406 » by bwgood77 » Tue Dec 6, 2016 9:37 pm

Zelaznyrules wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Front page article on realgm: Otto Porter Expected To Receive Max Contract Offers In Free Agency

LOL. Really?

It would be smart for us to sit back on the sidelines and "punt" on free agency once more year. Let teams handicap themselves with another round of maxing role players. We should offer only the true stars max deals AND if (when) they turn us down, we just

And we should absolutely try to move Len. Some team will max him and then we either have to let him walk OR pay him star money when he is only a backup center.


Of course Otto Porter should probably get a max. I was tired back in the day of our owner being cheap. If you can't pony up like the rest of the league is doing, sell the damn team. These guys are making money hand over fist. You can't just let the only assets you have walk out the door everyone involved with this league is overpaid.

You expect to find some really talented chump to come along and say "Hey, I can be a top 10 center for you guys and will take pennies on the dollar!" Not gonna happen.


I haven't really paid much attention to Washington or Porter but is he really that good? I would think max money should be reserved for players capable of being the 2nd best, perhaps 3rd best, player on a championship contending team. Do you see him as that kind of player or do you look at the distribution of cap money differently than I do.


Well, max money comes in layers, depending on how long you have been in the league. So it depends. Theoretically, you can probably have one 6+ year max guy and two under six year max guys plus role players (and guys on rookie contracts (VERY IMPORTANT). But if you nail draft pick after draft pick you can give out as many contracts as you want and only deal with the consequences or move one of the contracts if needed.

I would NEVER let a guy walk that has talent though. Right now Porter is easily their 2nd best player and getting better. A 62% TS % coming off a year with a 56.4% TS%.

You can dive into the advanced numbers which are good, but he is scoring 14.7 ppg, with 8.1 rpg, 2spg, 53.5% FG%, 41.4% 3pt PF %.

He has been more and more having monster games looking primed to break out. Zero chance I'd let the guy get away for any reason.

He's better than any player we have right now. I said this year because I was intrigued to him and was going to think about putting him into a trade deal, read their board, and read that they kind of think of him like we did of Warren. But he is better particularly this year at high volume high % 3s and rebounding. Maybe not quite the crafty scorer. Both have good steal rates though.

I also watch his numbers closely because I have him in fantasy. I earlier said if I was Washington I might try real hard to offer up Beal, Oubre, and a couple of lightly protected future firsts for Boogie, but of course if they can wait and add him to Wall/Porter, and the recent version of Beal in FA, that team could be really dangerous.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1407 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Dec 6, 2016 9:59 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I also watch his numbers closely because I have him in fantasy. I earlier said if I was Washington I might try real hard to offer up Beal, Oubre, and a couple of lightly protected future firsts for Boogie, but of course if they can wait and add him to Wall/Porter, and the recent version of Beal in FA, that team could be really dangerous.


They'd have to include Kieff on that deal for Cousins in order to be competitive. You can't win with the tank commander in your starting lineup. Everyone knows this. :D
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1408 » by Frank Lee » Tue Dec 6, 2016 10:13 pm

This league is goin to the crapper. The NBA relies upon 3 or 4 superstars and a fat TV deal. Owners can put a marginally talented roster on the court, with a 30% full arena and still make money. You think Sarver is losing money this year....? Is any franchise about to go belly up?

I don't know what's worse.... the ridiculous salary cap teams have or the exorbitant salaries some of these marginally talented dudes are getting. As if last yr's max is some sort of bargain next yr. I'm about done boys. Money and player collusion has all but destroyed this league.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1409 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Dec 6, 2016 10:50 pm

1UPZ wrote:Suns are in a bit of a dilemma though..

The team is no way near close to contending for a playoff push.

But are due to be maxed out this coming off-season.

Len will command 15 Million a year, just like Mozgov.
Warren will command close to Harrison Barnes money... 16 Million a year.

They still have Knight, Chandler and Bledsoe...

so you have 5 players earning 14+ million a year and going no where.



I think Suns should sign and trade Len if he commands 15 million or more...
Warren is a keeper... UNLESS... he can bring a superstar to the Suns.





I've been keeping my eyes on the Pacers. They may want to blow it up if they continue to hobble around 0.500 mark.
They keep their youth and they unload George, Teague and Ellis. But if they cant unload all 3, they will probably just keep the them and hope to get better. They have potential though.

I have to agree with you. While I concede that not overspending when everyone else is wouldn't get us a trophy for being smart with our money; overspending on a non-winning roster at the same time definitely doesn't make us winners either and would likely keep us from winning if we don't have any cap flexibility.

In this current financial climate where everyone has money to (over)spend and throw at very average players, having bird rights is more important than ever. This is why I'm of the mindset that the best way to acquire talent isn't through FA (where everyone has money to spend) but through trades. Boogie is one of those guys where I believe having him on the team, getting him acclimated with our plans and having his bird rights gets him a lot more invested in the Suns than if we gave him a couple of presentations during FA along with potentially another 5-10 other teams who want to sign him. Now, the trade doesn't necessarily have to be for Boogie but if we want to make this team better, I have no issues moving some of our youth (including Warren, who I love) and other assets.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1410 » by Saberestar » Tue Dec 6, 2016 10:55 pm

Frank Lee wrote:This league is goin to the crapper. The NBA relies upon 3 or 4 superstars and a fat TV deal. Owners can put a marginally talented roster on the court, with a 30% full arena and still make money. You think Sarver is losing money this year....? Is any franchise about to go belly up?

I don't know what's worse.... the ridiculous salary cap teams have or the exorbitant salaries some of these marginally talented dudes are getting. As if last yr's max is some sort of bargain next yr. I'm about done boys. Money and player collusion has all but destroyed this league.

It's all about economics and globalisation. The NBA earns more money than ever and they need to share that with the players. Just that.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1411 » by LukasBMW » Wed Dec 7, 2016 12:35 am

Agree 100% that the league is going down the crapper.

Teams are going to quickly realize that they are overpaying and handicapping themselves. Let's not be one of those teams.

It's like being at the bar in Scottsdale packed with sluts and roided out dudes. BUT you notice a group of hot ASU girls next door bar hopping. Let the roided out d-bags pick up on all the sluts, and then...30 minutes later, when the hot ASU girls walk into the bar, you can pounce on em because all the roided out d-bags are already on the dance floor with the nasty sluts.

Miles Plumlee @ $60 mil = nasty slut
Alex Len @ max = nasty slut
Otto Porter @ max = nasty slut

Let's wait it out. A group of hot ASU bitches is on the way.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1412 » by jcsunsfan » Wed Dec 7, 2016 12:41 am

Otto Porter expected to get a max offer. Yeesh.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1413 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Dec 7, 2016 12:48 am

Posted a thread on Knight. I'm not sure the last guy I have seen with a super broad consensus go out that quick on his value. Would love some Suns fans takes as I feel like it could be good to hear more from the local crowd. SIck of him and just want him gone? Want value equal to ____? Keep him for this year? Etc. Thanks!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1496751
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1414 » by RaisingArizona » Wed Dec 7, 2016 1:45 am

I just saw Len and max contract mentioned together in the same sentence. Wow. I sure wish I saw was whatever it is you see in Len.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1415 » by OGBAH » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:00 am

14 and 8 = max player
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1416 » by TeamTragic » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:18 am

ginobiliflops wrote:I just saw Len and max contract mentioned together in the same sentence. Wow. I sure wish I saw whatever it is you see in Len.


If this front office gives Len a max contract :lol: :noway:
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1417 » by thamadkant » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:29 am

There was a study online somewhere that the younger generation (Millenials) are not watching Sports as much as the previous generations. The NBA's salary cap will most likely peak several years from now and then would have to come back down or stagnate. Hence why advertising on jerseys and on the court is inevitable... but thats another story.

The point is... this mind set of spending spending gazillions of dollars for non-impact players is a phase and will likely fade away.
In the future, I can imagine superstars actually getting up to 40-45% of the team's salary and there will be no soft cap.. only a hard cap. Players like Crabbe, Turner etc. who got ridiculous money for role players will be phased out and come down significantly.


Having 2-3 superstars and close to minimum vets and rookies would be the future trend IMO.... just makes sense from a marketing point of view.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1418 » by thamadkant » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:33 am

ginobiliflops wrote:I just saw Len and max contract mentioned together in the same sentence. Wow. I sure wish I saw was whatever it is you see in Len.



it sickens me actually.... Athlete and Sports Agents today are killing it money wise because they can market players in their full potential rather than what they are.

I mean MAX money on role players is ridiculous...

David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone etc. where on 5-7 million a year a couple decades back... and these players are LEGIT MAX in any era.... but you have players half the talent earning MAX... it makes my stomach churn. I understand the capitalist nature... but Mozgov, Crabbe, Turner etc. have LITTLE to ZERO impact in TV ratings, merchandising etc... heck they are borderline making an impact on the court.... what they are, are players with powerful Sports Agents... which is messed up.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1419 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:39 am

1UPZ wrote:
ginobiliflops wrote:I just saw Len and max contract mentioned together in the same sentence. Wow. I sure wish I saw was whatever it is you see in Len.



it sickens me actually.... Athlete and Sports Agents today are killing it money wise because they can market players in their full potential rather than what they are.

I mean MAX money on role players is ridiculous...

David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone etc. where on 5-7 million a year a couple decades back... and these players are LEGIT MAX in any era.... but you have players half the talent earning MAX... it makes my stomach churn. I understand the capitalist nature... but Mozgov, Crabbe, Turner etc. have LITTLE to ZERO impact in TV ratings, merchandising etc... heck they are borderline making an impact on the court.... what they are, are players with powerful Sports Agents... which is messed up.

Money is getting made regardless so it's a matter of who gets paid. It sucks that athletes are getting paid the amounts they do these days but at the same time, I'd rather it go to the players than fattening up the pockets of the owners even more.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion 

Post#1420 » by RaisingArizona » Wed Dec 7, 2016 2:45 am

I tend to side with the owners more. They are taking all of the risks financially and had to make the investment ahead of time.

I think these killer contracts to role players are going to kill the league.
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