Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

[sunsbum]

Man-dingus. That's what I read.

[Christine-In-AZ]

McD struck out on Lebron (no surprise).

Never really had a chance, and Ryan's boss knew it.

McD struck out on LMA (it was close but we lost him to the Spurs).

Did everything legally possible, and I would argue he "lucked out" by not getting LMA to sign-up. If Aldridge signs with Phoenix, the Suns today are battling for the 8th seed with Chriss & Bender playing elsewhere. Bottomline- Ryan's boss is cool with the LMA affair's outcome.

He struck out on Cousins (said that he wanted to keep our young core).

He didn't "strike out" with Cousins! If his boss wanted Cousins on the team it would have happened. The Suns had ample assets to get Boogie. You make it seem like Sarver might have called McDonough into his office, then interrogated him..."why didn't you get Cousins damn it!...we needed that dude!!!" (Sarver slams the desk) ...as if Sarver wasn't directly involved in deciding how much is too much or where exactly risk washed over reward.

If he strikes out on both George and Butler then he is toast. DONE.

(Basically see above retort)
They have the assets for Butler or George if they-Sarver & McD & other player personnal decision makers want to do it. The Suns have more than enough quality picks and young talent to make an offer neither Chicago or Indiana would not refuse. Sarver is very much part of the real time price tag assessments.

[MathiasPW]

You will not get what you want for so many reasons. First, it's not possible. Second, to get Butler or George requires giving up so much that "then another trade" doesn't happen--not for a star, not unless Vlade is GM'ing other teams as well. GS, for instance, did not build their team by trading for superstars. They would have never been able to build it that way. They built by drafting guys, waiting for them to get in their primes, and then signing Durant. Free agency is a different ball game because you don't lose assets in the process.

Had they got Boogie for what was reported, simply taking Knight out of the deal, they could have built exactly that way. Watched the pitch sail by.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

And what is the "nother trade" that occurs? I'm assuming you mean Butler, who wouldn't bring us anywhere close to beating GS. And then who, with these supposed 2 maxed out new guys, are we signing in FA? Because then we are paying Cousins a brand new super max and Butler is maxed, with Bledsoe becoming an FA in a couple years. We're looking at guys like PJ Tucker to fill out the roster, not the KD's of the world. We weren't blessed with Steph Curry at $11 mil.

To be honest I don't know what other trade that would be. None of us do. We can speculate as much as we want. Every six months you have a fresh deadline or offseason where contracts got shorter, players got older, relationships deteriorated.

[AtheJ415]

That is just unrealistic.

As good as George and Butler are, they aren't making Golden State worried. We'd basically be trying to beat them at their own game with Bledsoe having to match or better Curry, Booker having to match or better Klay, Butler/George having to match or better KD, Chriss/Bender having to match or better Draymond.... four times. and that's not even getting into their bench vs. our bench, which they have a pretty clear advantage IMO. Sure we have Warren, Chriss/Bender (whoever isn't starting) and Len (if we resign him), but they're not going to be better than Golden State's vets next season. It's a likely 2-3 year wait until we can beat them anyway, and Paul George and Jimmy Butler are on a similar rate of decline as they are. Wouldn't you rather have Josh Jackson/Jayson Tatum/Lonzo Ball/Markelle Fultz to ascend with Booker/Bender/Chriss/etc. as Golden State declines?

And there are multiple ways to build brick by brick and building through the draft is. Hell, look at the Warriors. They drafted the main guys of their championship team - Steph, Klay, Draymond, Barnes. The same "move us up a bit" is true for every player on our roster. Adding a Josh Jackson/Jayson Tatum/Lonzo Ball/Markelle Fultz does as well. Maybe not with the immediacy of George or Butler, but progress nonetheless.

I always think that in team sports the better team might beat the better players. That's what makes it beautiful. Dallas beat Miami after all few years ago

I agree, but again, you can't know for sure the egos of Butler and George mesh with the egos on our squad. I think that with drafting a rookie, there is an element of awe they have that they made it, and now it's a matter of sticking. Any of those rookies are more likely to concede to the established veterans and "fall in line". George and Butler may think highly of Booker as a competitor, but how comfortable are they with conceding shots to him? And it can take a year or two to establish on-floor chemistry any ways (Like that Miami squad).

It cuts the other way too. Maybe Phoenix is exactly to Butler/George's liking and they mesh perfectly, quickly. Again, we find another problem of Golden State being one of the most unselfish teams in the NBA. It's a tough task to top from a player by player stand point and a group stand point.

The real irony here isn't not knowing for sure. It's that this is being argued against the GREATEST TEAM IN THE HISTORY OF BASKETBALL. Literally the one that has won the most games. And then added Durant. In this case, GS is the better team, and they have the better players. Building so that we can have the best team possible in 5 years, when Booker, Bender, Chriss, Warren are all entering their primes and when the Warriors are exiting theirs is by far the smartest, most realistic thing we can do. People saying we had a chance to contend with GS by rolling out this team with Butler and Cousins are delusional imo.

[MrMiyagi]

McD struck out on Lebron (no surprise).

Never really had a chance, and Ryan's boss knew it.

McD struck out on LMA (it was close but we lost him to the Spurs).

Did everything legally possible, and I would argue he "lucked out" by not getting LMA to sign-up. If Aldridge signs with Phoenix, the Suns today are battling for the 8th seed with Chriss & Bender playing elsewhere. Bottomline- Ryan's boss is cool with the LMA affair's outcome.

He struck out on Cousins (said that he wanted to keep our young core).

He didn't "strike out" with Cousins! If his boss wanted Cousins on the team it would have happened. The Suns had ample assets to get Boogie. You make it seem like Sarver might have called McDonough into his office, then interrogated him..."why didn't you get Cousins damn it!...we needed that dude!!!" (Sarver slams the desk) ...as if Sarver wasn't directly involved in deciding how much is too much or where exactly risk washed over reward.

If he strikes out on both George and Butler then he is toast. DONE.

(Basically see above retort)
They have the assets for Butler or George if they-Sarver & McD & other player personnal decision makers want to do it. The Suns have more than enough quality picks and young talent to make an offer neither Chicago or Indiana would not refuse. Sarver is very much part of the real time price tag assessments.

And again, you cannot account for the fact that Vivek was in love with Buddy Hield. I don't think any team should be upset with their GM that they didn't get Boogie because of Sacramento's deal. Sacramento was enamored with one player and New Orleans happened to have that player. Simple as that.

[AtheJ415]

My ideal trade deadline given the current rumors:

Tucker and a future 2nd (not 2017) to Spurs for Murray and salary filler (not sure if it's Patty Mills, etc. They have a lot of $3 mil guys)
Knight to Philly for Okafor
Chandler elsewhere for some pick, though that probably won't happen.

[Christine-In-AZ]

OK. Let me completely contradict myself. Paul George is threatening every team considering trading for him to not bother because he is going to the Lakers in 18 months (per Gambo). I expect that means that Indy is going to lose him for nothing, so his value is really low right now. Would you:

Knight, Tucker, Miami 1st for Paul George

understanding not only there are no guarantees to extend, he is threatening to walk in 18 months.

Knight is negative value, Tucker is decent expiring rotation (bench) player and the Miami first could easily be #15 or #20 next year.

Hell ya I'm making that trade! I'd be insane not to. That's worse than the Boogie trade...easy.

[jredsaz]

You will not get what you want for so many reasons. First, it's not possible. Second, to get Butler or George requires giving up so much that "then another trade" doesn't happen--not for a star, not unless Vlade is GM'ing other teams as well. GS, for instance, did not build their team by trading for superstars. They would have never been able to build it that way. They built by drafting guys, waiting for them to get in their primes, and then signing Durant. Free agency is a different ball game because you don't lose assets in the process.

Had they got Boogie for what was reported, simply taking Knight out of the deal, they could have built exactly that way. Watched the pitch sail by.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

And what is the "nother trade" that occurs? I'm assuming you mean Butler, who wouldn't bring us anywhere close to beating GS. And then who, with these supposed 2 maxed out new guys, are we signing in FA? Because then we are paying Cousins a brand new super max and Butler is maxed, with Bledsoe becoming an FA in a couple years. We're looking at guys like PJ Tucker to fill out the roster, not the KD's of the world. We weren't blessed with Steph Curry at $11 mil.

Butler and Cousins are on amazing contracts. The Boogie extention doesn't kick in until summer of 2018 and the cap is rising to $102 million. There is space.

A Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, and Boogie locked in for the next two and a half years makes competing a reality and I believe it gets us closer to the Warriors than you do.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[Christine-In-AZ]

So are we ok with Knight for Okafor if the Suns need to send let's say? A lottery protected 2018 or '19 1st to Philly?

A pick along those lines seems a minimum requirement to me.

I'm mixed if there's anything to the talk. He can't play defense, so he would fit right in.

[carey]

So are we ok with Knight for Okafor if the Suns need to send let's say? A lottery protected 2018 or '19 1st to Philly?

A pick along those lines seems a minimum requirement to me.

I'm mixed if there's anything to the talk. He can't play defense, so he would fit right in.

I don't know. Probably as long as the pick has no decreasing protection.

[Fo-Real]

I'm good with it

[AtheJ415]

Had they got Boogie for what was reported, simply taking Knight out of the deal, they could have built exactly that way. Watched the pitch sail by.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

And what is the "nother trade" that occurs? I'm assuming you mean Butler, who wouldn't bring us anywhere close to beating GS. And then who, with these supposed 2 maxed out new guys, are we signing in FA? Because then we are paying Cousins a brand new super max and Butler is maxed, with Bledsoe becoming an FA in a couple years. We're looking at guys like PJ Tucker to fill out the roster, not the KD's of the world. We weren't blessed with Steph Curry at $11 mil.

Butler and Cousins are on amazing contracts. The Boogie extention doesn't kick in until summer of 2018 and the cap is rising to $102 million. There is space.

A Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, and Boogie locked in for the next two and a half years makes competing a reality and I believe it gets us closer to the Warriors than you do.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Cousins is eligible for an extension this year. And we still wouldn't have the space to sign someone of value. This year we have $13 mil in space before Cousins and Butler in these hypos, who all make more than that (Butler at $17.5 this year and increasing for 3 years), Cousins at $17 and increasing. Who do you honestly expect to sign and at what amount? Let's see these numbers add up. Depending on what goes out you are already above $102 in that scenario.

[sunshoopjunky]

but how comfortable are they with conceding shots to him?

I agree it may be harder then it needed to be considering how much we have trained Booker to be ball dominate this year.

[Gorilla Warfare]

Read on Twitter

Smokescreen

[kennydorglas]

If Jahlil ends up here, i'm done.

Why? Shed Knights contract, and add a young piece. Whats not to like

Shedding Knight's contract is good, but there's a lot of young pieces who can actually play around the NBA.

[jcsunsfan]

So are we ok with Knight for Okafor if the Suns need to send let's say? A lottery protected 2018 or '19 1st to Philly?

A pick along those lines seems a minimum requirement to me.

I'm mixed if there's anything to the talk. He can't play defense, so he would fit right in.

To me, what we give up in that scenario is no big deal. The question is whether Okafor is what we really want. If McD and company really like him, then I am fine with the price.

[Gorilla Warfare]

I am more than happy to get rid of Knight and give Okafor a chance.

[GeraldsGreenery]

I am more than happy to get rid of Knight and give Okafor a chance.

oh, if we should be so lucky

[lilfishi22]

So are we ok with Knight for Okafor if the Suns need to send let's say? A lottery protected 2018 or '19 1st to Philly?

A pick along those lines seems a minimum requirement to me.

I'm mixed if there's anything to the talk. He can't play defense, so he would fit right in.

To me, what we give up in that scenario is no big deal. The question is whether Okafor is what we really want. If McD and company really like him, then I am fine with the price.

+1

Just because something is a bargain, doesn't necessarily mean it's worth buying. Personally, I'm off the Okafor train now. I like the bigs we have (even Len) and I'm not sure I want a problem big with pretty good offense but doesn't play D. Also a fairly subpar rebounder and FT shooter. He's basically a big with an old school game but without the D.

[MrMiyagi]

If Jahlil ends up here, i'm done.

Why? Shed Knights contract, and add a young piece. Whats not to like

Shedding Knight's contract is good, but there's a lot of young pieces who can actually play around the NBA.

I think Jah can play, but my reservation is can he play with us. Bledsoe is an attack the basket and get to the line guard, we've got the personnel to spread the floor around him. Jah would allow for a similar 4-out action, but Bledsoe wouldn't be as effective as he would choke up the lane. That being said, offensive diversity would be a good thing. Being able to throw it down to Jah and have him go to work could be an effective counter measure, providing he can contribute on the defensive end. And considering how Knight is not helping, I don't see the harm and swapping him for Jah, provided there isn't someone available who is a better fit for us.