Blonde wrote:At some point (not this season) just being in the playoff race isn’t going to be enough. If we’re not upgrading our long term talent then we should be planning for max capspace in 2021. Extending all our role players for multi year deals does neither of those things. Only reason I suggested LMA is because he expires that summer of 2021 while also making us a threat to win a playoff series this year. If we sit on our hands this year we also run the risk of losing Tyler, Saric, and Baynes for nothing and taking a huge step back.
bwgood77 wrote: I don't think the Clips have nearly the cap space to add anyone, so they likely keep their core intact. Harrell is very important to them. They won't have money for AD. Also, FA is 8 months away? Why concerned now? We don't know what we will need after 11 games and no Ayton or Jerome.
Yeah, I hear ya, and you're definitely right that it's still pretty early to have such considerations. I guess that I'm still slightly skeptical about our playoff chances considering how tight the positioning gets and how bloodthirsty teams have been in securing their playoff chances near the end of the season. Couple that with our poor luck right off the bat with losing Ayton for 25 games, And the reality that we have yet to really secure a real legitimate winning streak, and I guess I'm concerned by our close losses and pattern of not closing out those close games due to the propensity to try and coast to a win on the back of our three point shooting.
And I do realize that it's only 11 games into the season. And we are without Ayton and Jerome too. But I guess it's just the pattern of those losses that was concerning me, As it seemed ( at least to me) that we were starting to get away from our tough, tenacious defensive style that we began the season with and helped us to beat a team as good as the Clippers. As recently I had noticed that for whatever reason we had not been defending as much, and were just trading baskets with opposing teams, and getting passive on defense, Which was allowing the opposing teams to get back into the games as a result of our sloppy play.
So that along with this extended break between games got me looking ahead out of partial paranoia admittedly and partial boredom. Maybe I'm just really desperate for us to be confirmed legitimate to the rest of the NBA. And even moreso, desperate for us to secure our return to the playoffs after a decade long absence. And this pattern of close losses early in the season or not, does honestly weigh heavily upon me as I know how easily a team can miss the playoffs by a mere game or two as things really heat up and teams get cutthroat near season's end. So again, given the history of Western conference teams missing the playoffs by merely one or two games, I'm however unrealistic, trying to create plausible cushioning to those concerns admittedly too early. I apologize for my paranoia, and hope that I can foster more faith in our newfound success. Hopefully, Our team will go on a decent run starting Monday and put any potential fears to rest, whilst also providing more of a cushion in case of any future unforeseen obstacles to our playoff hopes.
Heck, you are already looking at the 2021 draft. It's early enough to look at the 2020 draft...and I imagine you will want to add like 4 guys in the draft by trading for picks even though we only have 1.
I think adding one 1st round player a year at this point is nice. I THINK Jones is a decent drafter. I didn't love the pick and obviously wanted Clarke and to a lesser extent, Washington, and both would have been good for different reasons (Clarke for defensive purposes and could fill in a bit at PF since Baynes can hit 3s and Kaminsky can back up the 5 with Ayton out) and PJ just because he looks like a great pick who can hit 3s as well.
Lol.....Yes, I'm looking at the 2021 draft. Due to boredom in waiting for our next game! Also because I didn't want to possibly forget those particular players of interest. Nothing more than that really. And with respect Bgood, You'll be relieved to know that I no longer have interest in adding multiple prospects honestly, As we seem to finally be building some good chemistry and might have finally found a winning lineup! ( I'm keeping my fingers crossed) And as you yourself have already stated, the best way to maintain cap flexibility and also afford sustainability for our current roster with respect to the imminent extensions of Ayton, and Bridges, etc. Is by looking to low cost rookie contracts. So to your very valid point, I proposed looking at varying particular prospects that could help plug any positional weaknesses, in the interest of choosing one alone that would be within our possible range, based upon peer feedback. But didn't propose taking multiple prospects to fill multiple roster spots.I merely intended to propose a list of varying possible candidates for a power forward, listing sequentially my preference.
And If we were to purchase a 2nd round pick for some reason, I'd only have interest in replacing a player that we don't intend to keep, In order to maintain some form of depth dependent upon their prospective skill really.
But again, however inplausable it may seem to be, I'm finally buying into the end of our rebuilding process, and the idea of looking at veterans to fill our primary needs. Hopefully as evidenced by my not mentioning trading up to the lottery, Or complaining about no longer being in the top half of the draft, or mentioning trading for picks too. So I apologize if my posted prospect interest gave anyone the impression that I'm solely focused upon the draft.
Again, it was only out of boredom primarily man. That and not wanting to forget those particular prospects for possible review to help pass the time.
bwgood77 wrote: No, not for me, as you mentioned LMA not a good fit with Ayton...they are too similar. I like Kaminsky anyway. I really don't want to trade any first round picks either. We need to add guys on rookie contracts to keep cheap ones. Plus, being 34 is WAY out of the age range we want players to be at. Don't want to trade with the Spurs anyway, and this is they guy that chose them over us (though at this point that wouldn't be something I cared about if I otherwise liked the trade).
Also I'd rather just use the salary I would pay LMA with to resign Saric and/or Baynes.
I just don't see the point of LMA at this point. He's the type of guy that maybe you'd go for if you're like a Portland but and up and coming team like us should look for someone a little younger and a little more orientated to the long term
I'd rather keep the cap relatively clean for now overall. That's why I don't want to trade Tyler. People mention trading him because he is an expiring but if someone wants an expiring contract that means they want to dump a bad contract. I'm tired of those.
Keep our cap space. Bad FA class this year. Keep our guys unless someone like Saric regresses or gets vastly overpaid by someone else. I like our PF rotation for once in a long while. Saric is currently the better 3 pt shooter but Frank has been the better rebounder, assist guy and inside scorer...plus he just had a bad stretch from 3 so I think his current season % is a bit misleading (as far as how good of a 3 pt shooter he really is).
I can understand spending our cap space the summer before we have to sign Ayton/Bridges...maybe next summer....and maybe it's just on Oubre again, though if he feels he settled at $15, I don't know if I'd want to give him near or over $20, and I really like his play this season most of the time and mostly the energy he brings.
That's not necessarily true. It could be a bad contract for that particular team because that player (and that contract) no longer aligns to the goals or timeline of that team.
We've already seen how stagnant our offense looks when Johnson is our lead guard off the bench. That places a ton of pressure on Jerome to be a great playmaker off the bench if we're looking at a Ty/Tyler back court going forward. I feel like we're really placing a cap on our ceiling if we do nothing productive and just keep Tyler.
Well I think we all know Josh isn't going to be shooting 59% from 3 all season lol. Hope the best for him, but I will always be extremely disappointed with how his career went here.
Bender's stats in G-League are more surprising to me. Dude looked like he could barely play with Summer Leaguers about a year ago, but is putting up 21.5/10/2/.5/1.5 on 55/40/75 in the G-League now after a solid preseason? He's surprise me the least if he turned into a serviceable player. He always seemed to know what he should do on the court, but the confidence and sometimes skill weren't there yet.
It'll be interesting to see how all of the Suns castaways careers progress. I definitely had no problem sending them out, but they're young enough that they can still improve and find a way to stick in the league.
Crives wrote:I really think Tyler’s contract only becomes useful if a youngish star gets upset and forces a trade, no Klove/Griffin.. Tyler is a guy we want to resign to a cheap long term deal if possible.
My mindset might change as the season goes on but my current thoughts is that we have a good situation right now with us playing competitive ball, our floor dramatically raised and with us possibly competing for a playoff spot as soon as this season after a decade on the outside looking in and the last 5 being in the absolute lowest of cellars there could be. But I'm not sure someone like Tyler is a guy that we just stick with just because we're scared to change the chemistry of this team.
We (should) have learnt from the last time we played around with the chemistry and added IT to a Bledsoe/Dragic backcourt which worked well so I'm certainly not saying we should just add another guy just to add another guy but certainly I feel like we're losing a major opportunity if we do nothing with Tyler's contract and just keep him around long term. I mean he's an OK player who sometimes has good games and is shooting fairly well from range but I just feel like we're not raising the ceiling by just keeping Tyler around. My mindset is that Tyler has helped us raise the floor but are we just hoping that our ceiling gets raised organically with what we have or do we use this opportunity to raise it further with Tyler's contract?
The problem for me is who do we bring back with Tyler’s contract? I don’t want an older win now piece, and I don’t think the front office does either. I think the biggest hole on our roster right now is a 6th man scoring wing/guard, but that’s a tough trade with 19m and would it be worth the cost of future picks/players? If a youngish star gets upset and wants out then I think Tyler’s contract will be a great asset (as I mentioned above). Maybei need to play with the cap sheet more, but I feel like we could put the salary from Tyler’s expiring to good use in 2021 when Oubres contract comes off the books.
Crives wrote:I really think Tyler’s contract only becomes useful if a youngish star gets upset and forces a trade, no Klove/Griffin.. Tyler is a guy we want to resign to a cheap long term deal if possible.
My mindset might change as the season goes on but my current thoughts is that we have a good situation right now with us playing competitive ball, our floor dramatically raised and with us possibly competing for a playoff spot as soon as this season after a decade on the outside looking in and the last 5 being in the absolute lowest of cellars there could be. But I'm not sure someone like Tyler is a guy that we just stick with just because we're scared to change the chemistry of this team.
We (should) have learnt from the last time we played around with the chemistry and added IT to a Bledsoe/Dragic backcourt which worked well so I'm certainly not saying we should just add another guy just to add another guy but certainly I feel like we're losing a major opportunity if we do nothing with Tyler's contract and just keep him around long term. I mean he's an OK player who sometimes has good games and is shooting fairly well from range but I just feel like we're not raising the ceiling by just keeping Tyler around. My mindset is that Tyler has helped us raise the floor but are we just hoping that our ceiling gets raised organically with what we have or do we use this opportunity to raise it further with Tyler's contract?
The problem for me is who do we bring back with Tyler’s contract? I don’t want an older win now piece, and I don’t think the front office does either. I think the biggest hole on our roster right now is a 6th man scoring wing/guard, but that’s a tough trade with 19m and would it be worth the cost of future picks/players? If a youngish star gets upset and wants out then I think Tyler’s contract will be a great asset (as I mentioned above). Maybei need to play with the cap sheet more, but I feel like we could put the salary from Tyler’s expiring to good use in 2021 when Oubres contract comes off the books.
How many backup guards make Tyler's money?
Trading Tyler makes no sense from a basketball perspective unless you're getting a superior guard in return, because as constructed, this roster really needs Tyler Johnson. I don't feel comfortable going to war with only Jevon Carter, Ty Jerome and Elie Okobo backing up Rubio and Booker in the backcourt. It's too much of a drop off. If Ty Jerome comes in and kicks butt, I still think you need Tyler for the depth he gives us in the backcourt.
I think this is going to be a very slow season for all you trade checkers out there, because our best option is probably to stay pat. The one move I might consider is moving Baynes if a team is willing to overpay and I know he's not coming back next season, but even that sends the wrong message to our players, which is, we don't care about winning this year. Which isn't true. We'd love to win this year. Go get it, Book and DA!
Blonde wrote:At some point (not this season) just being in the playoff race isn’t going to be enough. If we’re not upgrading our long term talent then we should be planning for max capspace in 2021. Extending all our role players for multi year deals does neither of those things. Only reason I suggested LMA is because he expires that summer of 2021 while also making us a threat to win a playoff series this year. If we sit on our hands this year we also run the risk of losing Tyler, Saric, and Baynes for nothing and taking a huge step back.
I agree with all your points
But you lost me at LMA lol
Yeah, I'd rather not go in on LMA. If there is one PF I'm targeting its Markkanen. He fits what we do so well and is a perfect addition to our roster. I'd be willing to take on Otto Porter Jr for an additional year (2020 class is weak anyway) if it meant we got Markkanen.
It's not the BEST move for the Suns because I don't love giving up Bridges, but with Cam Johnson eating up so many minutes at SF and Oubre the clear starter, it seems like he might be worth it to get someone of Markkanen's calibre.
If you sort the Western Conference by SRS, we are a clear number 3 behind the Lakers and Clippers. Might not mean much at the moment, but we are definitely looking good so far.
If you rank the league by SRS, looks like we are 4th
Blonde wrote:At some point (not this season) just being in the playoff race isn’t going to be enough. If we’re not upgrading our long term talent then we should be planning for max capspace in 2021. Extending all our role players for multi year deals does neither of those things. Only reason I suggested LMA is because he expires that summer of 2021 while also making us a threat to win a playoff series this year. If we sit on our hands this year we also run the risk of losing Tyler, Saric, and Baynes for nothing and taking a huge step back.
I agree with all your points
But you lost me at LMA lol
Yeah, I'd rather not go in on LMA. If there is one PF I'm targeting its Markkanen. He fits what we do so well and is a perfect addition to our roster. I'd be willing to take on Otto Porter Jr for an additional year (2020 class is weak anyway) if it meant we got Markkanen.
It's not the BEST move for the Suns because I don't love giving up Bridges, but with Cam Johnson eating up so many minutes at SF and Oubre the clear starter, it seems like he might be worth it to get someone of Markkanen's calibre.
Obviously Markkanen would a better fit than LMA (and Otto is what we hope Mikal will be) but if you want to hold on to Bridges then our market is limited to older veterans. I’m not against trading Bridges for the right piece, and Markkanen might be that, but I don’t see the motivation from Chicago.
GoranTragic wrote:What is up with that poll? We should be keeping both Baynes and Saric.
Qwigglez is SO excited about this season he just can't stop coming up with new polls! Now if you were asking about the one for the game thread, that one had me scratching my head (though don't know who did that one).
And as you yourself have already stated, the best way to maintain cap flexibility and also afford sustainability for our current roster with respect to the imminent extensions of Ayton, and Bridges, etc. Is by looking to low cost rookie contracts. So to your very valid point, I proposed looking at varying particular prospects that could help plug any positional weaknesses, in the interest of choosing one alone that would be within our possible range, based upon peer feedback. But didn't propose taking multiple prospects to fill multiple roster spots.I merely intended to propose a list of varying possible candidates for a power forward, listing sequentially my preference. 
