Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez
lilfishi22 wrote:hollywood6964 wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:How about top 5 among guards in offense?
I'd only have Dame, Harden, Jimmy and Kemba over him.
No, just in the quick list I gave, there's more names.
Yeah I'm saying I looked at other guards and these are the only guards I'd have over Book.
hollywood6964 wrote:Slim Charless wrote:hollywood6964 wrote:He's not a top ten offensive player. He needs screens to do anything. The fact he cannot isolate drops him out of that category. He's not dynamic enough to be top 10.
Lebron, kahwi, giannis, luka, lillard, harden, curry, AD, siakam, butler, beal, ingram, embiid, george, westbrook, durant, irving, walker, cj, tatum, etc, etc, all have better offensive skills, and don't need help with countless screens to get shots off. It's of no wonder they all n many more do better in the clutch.
This board grossly overrates booker. I don't think you grossly overrate him, just were off in saying he's a top 10 offensive player.
I think it's kind of the opposite in that we constantly downgrade our guys and boost the players of other teams. He can isolate, take over games and has delivered for us in the past. I would put him below those players you mentioned but that doesn't say much seeing as half of that list is otw to the HOF and every single one of them have had a better supporting cast/coaching staff/front office/owner then Booker has had to deal with over these last 5 years. There's no universe that we live in that Booker couldn't get a better return then a non-top 3 pick and some guys who may or may not some upside, provided JJ and Monty haven't gone insane. That's crazy talk.
His defense could use some work but with Ayton back there and improving every game on that end, I bet as a team they all get better knowing they have some help back there. We all watched him play his ass off and actually forced a few misses from Kawhi the other night. Now I think the suns might be better off with Ayton as the focus and Booker as his running mate but that's not saying that Booker is overrated and a bum. If we put him on the block we'd get a lot more then you guys are predicting-not that I even think we should trade him for that matter.
I disagree with that first bolded.
I haven't made a prediction about what we can get for him. There's almost always a gm that'll pay, especially high since he just made an all star team. We might actually be able to get something substantial.
alamin330 wrote:People complaining about Booker still are people who complain with their mouths full. 23 year old who is nearly unstoppable on offense who has gotten better every year who still has no shooters around him.
No other player in the western conference has single handedly taken his team to the playoffs. And if so it took them years of losing/gaining experience or playing with other stars to finally do it
KLEON wrote:
I'm pretty sure this guy was balling for the Wiz before he got traded. IDK why some people here are complaining about the move because I'm sure he'll take away Okobo's minutes which I'm more than excited about.
sunsbg wrote:Give this team two more years to build any kind of chemistry. Bring some good vets in the meantime. If it's still not working after two seasons get rid of both Booker and Rubio and build around Ayton. It's that simple. Trading Booker for some picks and unproven young players is a gamble.
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:alamin330 wrote:People complaining about Booker still are people who complain with their mouths full. 23 year old who is nearly unstoppable on offense who has gotten better every year who still has no shooters around him.
No other player in the western conference has single handedly taken his team to the playoffs. And if so it took them years of losing/gaining experience or playing with other stars to finally do it
Unstoppable on offense when he's on, and almost always in a losing effort it seems. I can recall several games this season that he's shot, turnovered or matador-defensed us right out of games. And I struggle to recall any game where he was both highly effective on offense and not the weakest link on defense. For example, Dillon Brooks outplayed him the last two times we went against the Grizz because Brooks worked hard to guard Devin - who struggled - while Devin kept daring Brooks to take open shot after open shot - which he hit.
To say you want to trade a guy for a great package doesn't mean you don't like or respect him. I really like Devin as a player and a person, with how he's conducted himself off-court. I thought he deserved the All-Star selection. I'm not dead set on moving him, but I what I CAN'T STAND is the kind of talk in your post above - blaming every player but Devin for our failures. You talk as if he's surrounded by scrubs, but he isn't. We keep moving our "scrubs" off to greener pastures, where they play better, and for better teams than we are. Our scrubs are other teams' good players. And there's gotta be a reason for that. We've changed coaches several times, moved through several complimentary wings, upgraded the C position dramatically, all to arrive at the same destination.
So if we make major roster changes this summer, keep in mind that all the players we send out will probably have more success elsewhere, just like the rest of our castoffs. And we're still likely to suck. And maybe it's time for us to consider whether the problem isn't anyone and everyone but Devin. Maybe the way to raise the level of this team's play is to get guys who play within the offense, who can defend.
In Devin, I see a player who hasn't shown the ability to raise the level of his teammates' play. I think it's because Devin's not enough of a positive on offense when he's off-ball to make up for his poor defense, and he's not a positive for our offense overall when we put the ball in his hands, because his talent is for scoring, not passing. It's hard to build a team around a guy like that, and we should know that by now.
alamin330 wrote:ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:alamin330 wrote:People complaining about Booker still are people who complain with their mouths full. 23 year old who is nearly unstoppable on offense who has gotten better every year who still has no shooters around him.
No other player in the western conference has single handedly taken his team to the playoffs. And if so it took them years of losing/gaining experience or playing with other stars to finally do it
Unstoppable on offense when he's on, and almost always in a losing effort it seems. I can recall several games this season that he's shot, turnovered or matador-defensed us right out of games. And I struggle to recall any game where he was both highly effective on offense and not the weakest link on defense. For example, Dillon Brooks outplayed him the last two times we went against the Grizz because Brooks worked hard to guard Devin - who struggled - while Devin kept daring Brooks to take open shot after open shot - which he hit.
To say you want to trade a guy for a great package doesn't mean you don't like or respect him. I really like Devin as a player and a person, with how he's conducted himself off-court. I thought he deserved the All-Star selection. I'm not dead set on moving him, but I what I CAN'T STAND is the kind of talk in your post above - blaming every player but Devin for our failures. You talk as if he's surrounded by scrubs, but he isn't. We keep moving our "scrubs" off to greener pastures, where they play better, and for better teams than we are. Our scrubs are other teams' good players. And there's gotta be a reason for that. We've changed coaches several times, moved through several complimentary wings, upgraded the C position dramatically, all to arrive at the same destination.
So if we make major roster changes this summer, keep in mind that all the players we send out will probably have more success elsewhere, just like the rest of our castoffs. And we're still likely to suck. And maybe it's time for us to consider whether the problem isn't anyone and everyone but Devin. Maybe the way to raise the level of this team's play is to get guys who play within the offense, who can defend.
In Devin, I see a player who hasn't shown the ability to raise the level of his teammates' play. I think it's because Devin's not enough of a positive on offense when he's off-ball to make up for his poor defense, and he's not a positive for our offense overall when we put the ball in his hands, because his talent is for scoring, not passing. It's hard to build a team around a guy like that, and we should know that by now.
The thing you omitted in your response is the fact that he’s only 23. I don’t see blame anywhere in my post. You’re creating your own narrative to support your lack of understanding of how good booker is. I said he’s still not surrounded by shooters. Without shooters defenses can gamble and cause a lot of problems for Booker. This is a lost season because of injuries and suspension to Ayton. That’s none of Booker’s fault. You guys want him to be perfect 82 games of the season. No player has perfect games every game. The difference is those superstars have much more experience and other veterans to keep games close and have a chance to win even when their star is having a bad game.
Our only pure sharp shooter is a rookie. Everyone else is all streaky. Booker isn’t the problem. Youth is and lack of shooters. There’s no blame there anywhere. Other players on the suns are still good but that doesn’t mean they are shooters. Your post is really illogical just as your reasoning for trading Booker is
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:alamin330 wrote:ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Unstoppable on offense when he's on, and almost always in a losing effort it seems. I can recall several games this season that he's shot, turnovered or matador-defensed us right out of games. And I struggle to recall any game where he was both highly effective on offense and not the weakest link on defense. For example, Dillon Brooks outplayed him the last two times we went against the Grizz because Brooks worked hard to guard Devin - who struggled - while Devin kept daring Brooks to take open shot after open shot - which he hit.
To say you want to trade a guy for a great package doesn't mean you don't like or respect him. I really like Devin as a player and a person, with how he's conducted himself off-court. I thought he deserved the All-Star selection. I'm not dead set on moving him, but I what I CAN'T STAND is the kind of talk in your post above - blaming every player but Devin for our failures. You talk as if he's surrounded by scrubs, but he isn't. We keep moving our "scrubs" off to greener pastures, where they play better, and for better teams than we are. Our scrubs are other teams' good players. And there's gotta be a reason for that. We've changed coaches several times, moved through several complimentary wings, upgraded the C position dramatically, all to arrive at the same destination.
So if we make major roster changes this summer, keep in mind that all the players we send out will probably have more success elsewhere, just like the rest of our castoffs. And we're still likely to suck. And maybe it's time for us to consider whether the problem isn't anyone and everyone but Devin. Maybe the way to raise the level of this team's play is to get guys who play within the offense, who can defend.
In Devin, I see a player who hasn't shown the ability to raise the level of his teammates' play. I think it's because Devin's not enough of a positive on offense when he's off-ball to make up for his poor defense, and he's not a positive for our offense overall when we put the ball in his hands, because his talent is for scoring, not passing. It's hard to build a team around a guy like that, and we should know that by now.
The thing you omitted in your response is the fact that he’s only 23. I don’t see blame anywhere in my post. You’re creating your own narrative to support your lack of understanding of how good booker is. I said he’s still not surrounded by shooters. Without shooters defenses can gamble and cause a lot of problems for Booker. This is a lost season because of injuries and suspension to Ayton. That’s none of Booker’s fault. You guys want him to be perfect 82 games of the season. No player has perfect games every game. The difference is those superstars have much more experience and other veterans to keep games close and have a chance to win even when their star is having a bad game.
Our only pure sharp shooter is a rookie. Everyone else is all streaky. Booker isn’t the problem. Youth is and lack of shooters. There’s no blame there anywhere. Other players on the suns are still good but that doesn’t mean they are shooters. Your post is really illogical just as your reasoning for trading Booker is
You may disagree with my narrative, but it's not "illogical." I believe you're using illogical as a synonym for unreasonable or simply incorrect. We perceive this situation differently, for sure.
When you say "Booker isn't the problem. Youth is and lack of shooters. There's really no blame there anywhere." I can't say I understand how you're using the word there, actually. It seems like you're saying youth and lack of shooters are a "problem", but they (like Booker) are not to "blame."
You're right that I didn't mention Booker's age. He's still real young, I admit, and that gives me hope. But your narrative explains (not blames, I guess) our losses by pointing to everyone but Booker. And I disagree.
alamin330 wrote:ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:alamin330 wrote:The thing you omitted in your response is the fact that he’s only 23. I don’t see blame anywhere in my post. You’re creating your own narrative to support your lack of understanding of how good booker is. I said he’s still not surrounded by shooters. Without shooters defenses can gamble and cause a lot of problems for Booker. This is a lost season because of injuries and suspension to Ayton. That’s none of Booker’s fault. You guys want him to be perfect 82 games of the season. No player has perfect games every game. The difference is those superstars have much more experience and other veterans to keep games close and have a chance to win even when their star is having a bad game.
Our only pure sharp shooter is a rookie. Everyone else is all streaky. Booker isn’t the problem. Youth is and lack of shooters. There’s no blame there anywhere. Other players on the suns are still good but that doesn’t mean they are shooters. Your post is really illogical just as your reasoning for trading Booker is
You may disagree with my narrative, but it's not "illogical." I believe you're using illogical as a synonym for unreasonable or simply incorrect. We perceive this situation differently, for sure.
When you say "Booker isn't the problem. Youth is and lack of shooters. There's really no blame there anywhere." I can't say I understand how you're using the word there, actually. It seems like you're saying youth and lack of shooters are a "problem", but they (like Booker) are not to "blame."
You're right that I didn't mention Booker's age. He's still real young, I admit, and that gives me hope. But your narrative explains (not blames, I guess) our losses by pointing to everyone but Booker. And I disagree.
I’m using the right word. You’re being illogical. We are talking about DEVIN BOOKER and not the other guys. In response to you wanting to trade Booker because he is the one constant on the suns during our losing era, I simply replied that Booker isn’t the problem. If he had pure shooters and experienced players on the team we would be just like what Mitchell is doing with the Jazz if not better. Your narrative is illogical and unreasonable. You’re not using any real logic to suggest that if we trade booker we’ll be better off. But that all depends on the return. If it’s a swap for Beal do the suns really get better. Booker is too young and inexperienced to bring back a superstar type player who could potentially add more wins to this current roster. Your post is unreasonable because your putting all the blame of the suns woes on a 23 year old sg who’s most experienced veteran is Rubio who can’t shoot or Baynes who has never been a starting caliber player.