2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The KD era begins

[bwgood77]

Ishbia caved on Bridges. Then after that they wanted to add Crowder where we were going to trade elsewhere and Ishbia then said forget it, after he had just caved on Bridges. Later he thought about it at dinner and told Jones to call back and take it.

Jones would not have made the deal even with just Bridges and no Crowder in. Though it then would have been Crowder and Saric instead of salaries probably, but the Nets would have never done it without Bridges.

This was an owner who finally is like the kid in the candy story spending all his money wanting to make an impression.

Jones was smart to not include Bridges. Ishbia overruled him - and thats why I think it was ego or emotion. And if Windhorst is right, he made the decision at dinner talking to his friends. Again, emotional - "hey lets do this" and they all take a shot and high five each other.

This decision was Sarver-esque to me when you include Mikal. Windhorst said the Nets never budged. The Suns should have waited them out if Durant was really only going to the Suns

While I don't disagree with your analysis, Durant telling the Nets that if they couldn't find the right deal for him that he would play with the new guys and get excited about it is what really killed this for us. It needed to be "Suns or I'm sitting out." Nets had no pressure whatsoever to move him. They asked for all that they wanted and got it. Yes, we could have waited until the offseason, but at that point who knows what happens. What if the Nets are super good and make it to the ECF? Does Durant still want to leave? What if another team throws a better deal together and Durant eventually says "okay, i'll play for them."? Nets had no pressure and the Suns needed to do this now if they wanted the assurance of actually landing him. Yes, it's unfortunate that the decision process seemed a bit rash or like he made it with friends, but Jones was there when they decided to include Bridges.

If Bridges and Cam and the picks were non-negotiables, I wonder how many people here would have stopped the deal just because we thought we'd fill that fifth starter spot with the Crowder trade and didn't want to send him to the Nets? I think maybe I would have called the Nets back and said "Look, we agreed to your SUPER high demand without any negotiation or lowering of cost. You need to relent on Crowder." I would have still gone through with it had they said no, but you had to at least try.

I think when it comes to BobbieL and I, we would have not one it even without Crowder. To me, if we don't win a championship it's a complete bust. If we do win 1 championship, to me, it will depend on what happens over the next 7-10 years for me to decide if that 1 championship was worth all that we gave up. I know I am in a very small minority but I'm not a ringz/championship or bust guy. I enjoy watching teams I like, like the 88-95 teams and the SSOL Suns, largely organically grown...we did add Barkley at the tail end of our first team, and got back Nash who we had drafted. All we really have left now is Booker and Ayton. I guess you can add TJ but he's only likely here for this year.

[matt131]

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

We've been starting Craig all season. Not sure why that would change now, unless they think they need more offense in the starting unit. But I don't think they do.

Bazley couldn't even start in OKC. Being a championship contender he won't get much playing time outside of blowouts.

Mikal is a 3; KD a 4/3. Mikal doesn't rebound; KD does. Mikal defends the point of attack; KD does not. We just added three forwards to the roster. It's not clear Craig's our second-best forward (though he may be, all thing considered). He's struggled in late-game situations and alongside Ayton. He was a starter only because Cam was out and Crowder was gone. I expect Craig to start too but there are ample reasons to doubt it (after all, the other 4 starters are locks).

As for Bazley, each team is different. Thunder lack shooters and scorers, are developing players, lack size inside. We have a hole at the 4 on this team unless you consider Durant a 4... though he probably is. So you're probably right - we'll prefer a 3 next to Durant, which suggests we go with Craig or Lee.

KD is more of a 3. We played Craig some at the 3 and Mikal at the 2 as well this year...mostly with Saric...a little with Landale. Lee would be a good starter if we felt we were good enough on D. I think the main reason we want Craig is to take on the toughest defensive assignment. Luka, one of the Clippers big 2, etc...I don't see Lee doing that. Okogie has had a couple nice games but he is not a playoff starter.

Bazley's more of a 4. And his size would pose more problems for Luka. You're convincing me!

[matt131]

This was an owner who finally is like the kid in the candy story spending all his money wanting to make an impression.

Jones was smart to not include Bridges. Ishbia overruled him - and thats why I think it was ego or emotion. And if Windhorst is right, he made the decision at dinner talking to his friends. Again, emotional - "hey lets do this" and they all take a shot and high five each other.

This decision was Sarver-esque to me when you include Mikal. Windhorst said the Nets never budged. The Suns should have waited them out if Durant was really only going to the Suns

While I don't disagree with your analysis, Durant telling the Nets that if they couldn't find the right deal for him that he would play with the new guys and get excited about it is what really killed this for us. It needed to be "Suns or I'm sitting out." Nets had no pressure whatsoever to move him. They asked for all that they wanted and got it. Yes, we could have waited until the offseason, but at that point who knows what happens. What if the Nets are super good and make it to the ECF? Does Durant still want to leave? What if another team throws a better deal together and Durant eventually says "okay, i'll play for them."? Nets had no pressure and the Suns needed to do this now if they wanted the assurance of actually landing him. Yes, it's unfortunate that the decision process seemed a bit rash or like he made it with friends, but Jones was there when they decided to include Bridges.

If Bridges and Cam and the picks were non-negotiables, I wonder how many people here would have stopped the deal just because we thought we'd fill that fifth starter spot with the Crowder trade and didn't want to send him to the Nets? I think maybe I would have called the Nets back and said "Look, we agreed to your SUPER high demand without any negotiation or lowering of cost. You need to relent on Crowder." I would have still gone through with it had they said no, but you had to at least try.

I think when it comes to BobbieL and I, we would have not one it even without Crowder. To me, if we don't win a championship it's a complete bust. If we do win 1 championship, to me, it will depend on what happens over the next 7-10 years for me to decide if that 1 championship was worth all that we gave up. I know I am in a very small minority but I'm not a ringz/championship or bust guy. I enjoy watching teams I like, like the 88-95 teams and the SSOL Suns, largely organically grown...we did add Barkley at the tail end of our first team, and got back Nash who we had drafted. All we really have left now is Booker and Ayton. I guess you can add TJ but he's only likely here for this year.

I'm pretty much parked right in the middle. Over the summer I thought my reaction would be insane happiness if we landed KD. I think his trade request and Chris Haynes saying he preferred Phoenix was the highlight of all this for me. But finding out we traded Cam and Mikal made me more sad that KD is making me happy at the moment. I agree with the notion of having fun watching fun teams that are organically grown.

I understand the sentiment of not being a rings/championship or bust kind of guy, but dang one would feel pretty good (I think you would have to agree being a Chargers and Suns fan like me). But I also get how it may feel different if KD brings us that ring as opposed to it being guys we drafted and loved. I'll probably fall in love with Durant quickly just as I did with CP3.

Mikal was my fiancees' and my favorite Sun. I just bought another one of his jerseys for like 70% off and will continue to wear it to games.

Hopefully KD comes back fully healthy and ready to rock. We've got basically a playoff game every night from here on out.

[bwgood77]

Lots of risk talk but let's not act like there wasn't risk in not making the move. Keeping moving forward with a core of Booker, Cam, Bridges and Ayton could have slowly faded from contender relevancy (could argue it already had this year). Injuries could happen to any of those guys and their contracts become anchors overnight. Yeah you have draft picks, but we've all witnessed how that doesn't assure **** either.

There's risk in any path you take team building.

Personally I've been preaching since this summer they needed to find a second star to pair with Booker if they want to be real contenders now and in the near future. I simply did not believe Ayton, Bridges, or Cam could be that guy. If you do believe that then I get why you wouldn't want this deal.
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Injuries could happen to any of those guys....as you say. Well we still have Booker and Ayton, and Bridges could get injured, but I think there is a higher probability by quite a bit that KD will. And Cam of course could get injured, but TJ could too..probability similar..and TJ will be gone. Then there are the picks.

You are right we could have faded.They also could have continued to improve like Mikal and Cam were doing and gotten better and we could have used our first this year and every year to add pieces, as well as the expirings/picks, etc, to add things.

But again, you are rolling the dice on championship being the only thing. Chances are they don't happen either way and our future is more bleak with the trade. Yes, the chances are a little better but it's not like it's a probability, even if they do stay healthy, which is probably 50/50 at best.

I was really vested in Booker/Bridges/Cam/Ayton playing together, having the unity, chemistry, the rare bond they have and a ring would have been gravy and would have been happy for them. I don't really care if KD gets one..or Paul really for that matter. It will be nice for Book if he gets one...and Ayton if he brings it.

Of course I will be very happy with a 3peat or something like that...certainly can't argue with that or even b2b titles or 2 in 3 years.

[Young gun 6]

What I think of people don’t realise is even if we only have a 2 year window or so with Booker/KD we have the perfect contract situation. Cap rise and Booker only asset locked in past 2026.

Cp3, KD off the books and this is the free agent class who may want to play with Booker in his prime:

2026 free agents: Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Lavine, SGA, Tatum, Mitchell, Bam, Fox, Wiggins, JJJ, Brunson, Collins, Bridges, Gordon, Ja Fro

[bwgood77]

What I think of people don’t realise is even if we only have a 2 year window or so with Booker/KD we have the perfect contract situation. Cap rise and Booker only asset locked in past 2026.

Cp3, KD off the books and this is the free agent class who may want to play with Booker in his prime:

2026 free agents: Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Lavine, SGA, Tatum, Mitchell, Bam, Fox, Wiggins, JJJ, Brunson, Collins, Bridges, Gordon, Ja Fro

How many of those guys you think really ove teams? I hope we get Bridges back. Bridges and Brunson would be nice.

[TeamTragic]

What I think of people don’t realise is even if we only have a 2 year window or so with Booker/KD we have the perfect contract situation. Cap rise and Booker only asset locked in past 2026.

Cp3, KD off the books and this is the free agent class who may want to play with Booker in his prime:

2026 free agents: Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Lavine, SGA, Tatum, Mitchell, Bam, Fox, Wiggins, JJJ, Brunson, Collins, Bridges, Gordon, Ja Fro

Timing is everything in the NBA and that time for the SUNS is now.

Bridges back on this team in 26 would be amazing along with SGA

[Young gun 6]

What I think of people don’t realise is even if we only have a 2 year window or so with Booker/KD we have the perfect contract situation. Cap rise and Booker only asset locked in past 2026.

Cp3, KD off the books and this is the free agent class who may want to play with Booker in his prime:

2026 free agents: Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Lavine, SGA, Tatum, Mitchell, Bam, Fox, Wiggins, JJJ, Brunson, Collins, Bridges, Gordon, Ja Fro

How many of those guys you think really ove teams? I hope we get Bridges back. Bridges and Brunson would be nice.

Honestly who knows. But the fact there’s so many out of contact in that specific year is perfect for us.

There’s never been that many stars coming off the books at the same time and given how much the league has already shifted towards player empowerment, super teams and playing with friends it’s definitely an ideal situation to be in 3 years from now post KD/CP3.

If we were waiting until then with no current championship potential team then yeah it’s not even worth mentioning. But the fact we have a 2 or 3 year window and then have that situation is basically just painting the picture this isn’t just a 2 year thing and then we’re 100% ****.

It’s we have 2-3 years and then not a hellish situation like people expect.

[bwgood77]

Mikal is a 3; KD a 4/3. Mikal doesn't rebound; KD does. Mikal defends the point of attack; KD does not. We just added three forwards to the roster. It's not clear Craig's our second-best forward (though he may be, all thing considered). He's struggled in late-game situations and alongside Ayton. He was a starter only because Cam was out and Crowder was gone. I expect Craig to start too but there are ample reasons to doubt it (after all, the other 4 starters are locks).

As for Bazley, each team is different. Thunder lack shooters and scorers, are developing players, lack size inside. We have a hole at the 4 on this team unless you consider Durant a 4... though he probably is. So you're probably right - we'll prefer a 3 next to Durant, which suggests we go with Craig or Lee.

KD is more of a 3. We played Craig some at the 3 and Mikal at the 2 as well this year...mostly with Saric...a little with Landale. Lee would be a good starter if we felt we were good enough on D. I think the main reason we want Craig is to take on the toughest defensive assignment. Luka, one of the Clippers big 2, etc...I don't see Lee doing that. Okogie has had a couple nice games but he is not a playoff starter.

Bazley's more of a 4. And his size would pose more problems for Luka. You're convincing me!

It would be funny to see Bazley try to guard Luka. It's funny trying to watch anyone guard him, but Bazley would be really funny. I doubt Bazley gets minutes outside of garbage time.

[bwgood77]

What I think of people don’t realise is even if we only have a 2 year window or so with Booker/KD we have the perfect contract situation. Cap rise and Booker only asset locked in past 2026.

Cp3, KD off the books and this is the free agent class who may want to play with Booker in his prime:

2026 free agents: Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Lavine, SGA, Tatum, Mitchell, Bam, Fox, Wiggins, JJJ, Brunson, Collins, Bridges, Gordon, Ja Fro

How many of those guys you think really ove teams? I hope we get Bridges back. Bridges and Brunson would be nice.

Honestly who knows. But the fact there’s so many out of contact in that specific year is perfect for us.

There’s never been that many stars coming off the books at the same time and given how much the league has already shifted towards player empowerment, super teams and playing with friends it’s definitely an ideal situation to be in 3 years from now post KD/CP3.

If we were waiting until then with no current championship potential team then yeah it’s not even worth mentioning. But the fact we have a 2 or 3 year window and then have that situation is basically just painting the picture this isn’t just a 2 year thing and then we’re 100% ****.

It’s we have 2-3 years and then not a hellish situation like people expect.

It is nice we only have Book under contract and those guys are available. I could definitely see us getting Bridges and Brunson...and Collins. I know Jones loves Collins, though I don't know Jones will be here. I think we were about to trade Ayton for Collins and keep Bridges/Cam and then suddenly we keep Ayton and trade those other two guys for KD.

[WeekapaugGroove]

What I think of people don’t realise is even if we only have a 2 year window or so with Booker/KD we have the perfect contract situation. Cap rise and Booker only asset locked in past 2026.

Cp3, KD off the books and this is the free agent class who may want to play with Booker in his prime:

2026 free agents: Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Lavine, SGA, Tatum, Mitchell, Bam, Fox, Wiggins, JJJ, Brunson, Collins, Bridges, Gordon, Ja Fro

How many of those guys you think really ove teams? I hope we get Bridges back. Bridges and Brunson would be nice.

Some will.

I just looked at the 2019 all star game and only 10 of the 26 players in that game are still on their teams. Guys move around.

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[bwgood77]

Trade Nash - later sign as FA
Trade Dragic - later sign as FA
Trade Bridges -

[bwgood77]

What I think of people don’t realise is even if we only have a 2 year window or so with Booker/KD we have the perfect contract situation. Cap rise and Booker only asset locked in past 2026.

Cp3, KD off the books and this is the free agent class who may want to play with Booker in his prime:

2026 free agents: Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Lavine, SGA, Tatum, Mitchell, Bam, Fox, Wiggins, JJJ, Brunson, Collins, Bridges, Gordon, Ja Fro

How many of those guys you think really ove teams? I hope we get Bridges back. Bridges and Brunson would be nice.

Some will.

I just looked at the 2019 all star game and only 10 of the 26 players in that game are still on their teams. Guys move around.

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Yeah, I think some will. I think LaVine might move sooner and Collins definitely will..maybe in a 3 way for Ayton actually. Wiggins may move somewhere. SGA possibly but they could be a really competitive team and he likely their cornerstone. I kind of think Giannis, Embiid, Tatum, JJJ and Ja will stay with their teams. Luka will probably end up on the Lakers or Knicks or something. For some reason I don't see him and Book pairing up at this point.

[MrMiyagi]

This **** trade could have been done this summer. I'm so goddamned pissed.

[Slim Charless]

How many of those guys you think really ove teams? I hope we get Bridges back. Bridges and Brunson would be nice.

Honestly who knows. But the fact there’s so many out of contact in that specific year is perfect for us.

There’s never been that many stars coming off the books at the same time and given how much the league has already shifted towards player empowerment, super teams and playing with friends it’s definitely an ideal situation to be in 3 years from now post KD/CP3.

If we were waiting until then with no current championship potential team then yeah it’s not even worth mentioning. But the fact we have a 2 or 3 year window and then have that situation is basically just painting the picture this isn’t just a 2 year thing and then we’re 100% ****.

It’s we have 2-3 years and then not a hellish situation like people expect.

It is nice we only have Book under contract and those guys are available. I could definitely see us getting Bridges and Brunson...and Collins. I know Jones loves Collins, though I don't know Jones will be here. I think we were about to trade Ayton for Collins and keep Bridges/Cam and then suddenly we keep Ayton and trade those other two guys for KD.

I would be (very) surprised if we got Mikal back. I look at that list and I see Michigan State alumni JJJ and I'd imagine that he's gonna be the 1st call for Mat.

But this like 3 years away, I'm not sure why it even matters.

[TeamTragic]

This **** trade could have been done this summer. I'm so goddamned pissed.

Based on what exactly? The Nets traded him here because he said SUNS or bust.

This is the price for KD and you have to counter the Kyrie trade with a huge move.

[Crives]

One thing I’ve been thinking about (well before KD trade)…. The league is getting really deep, we are going to see better and better players available for Min deals each year…. Will help with our 4 maxs

[Fo-Real]

If we had only done the Bazley for Saric trade and played the buyout market, how big would the nuclear meltdown been on this sight?!?!

[Damkac]

This was an owner who finally is like the kid in the candy story spending all his money wanting to make an impression.

Jones was smart to not include Bridges. Ishbia overruled him - and thats why I think it was ego or emotion. And if Windhorst is right, he made the decision at dinner talking to his friends. Again, emotional - "hey lets do this" and they all take a shot and high five each other.

This decision was Sarver-esque to me when you include Mikal. Windhorst said the Nets never budged. The Suns should have waited them out if Durant was really only going to the Suns

While I don't disagree with your analysis, Durant telling the Nets that if they couldn't find the right deal for him that he would play with the new guys and get excited about it is what really killed this for us. It needed to be "Suns or I'm sitting out." Nets had no pressure whatsoever to move him. They asked for all that they wanted and got it. Yes, we could have waited until the offseason, but at that point who knows what happens. What if the Nets are super good and make it to the ECF? Does Durant still want to leave? What if another team throws a better deal together and Durant eventually says "okay, i'll play for them."? Nets had no pressure and the Suns needed to do this now if they wanted the assurance of actually landing him. Yes, it's unfortunate that the decision process seemed a bit rash or like he made it with friends, but Jones was there when they decided to include Bridges.

If Bridges and Cam and the picks were non-negotiables, I wonder how many people here would have stopped the deal just because we thought we'd fill that fifth starter spot with the Crowder trade and didn't want to send him to the Nets? I think maybe I would have called the Nets back and said "Look, we agreed to your SUPER high demand without any negotiation or lowering of cost. You need to relent on Crowder." I would have still gone through with it had they said no, but you had to at least try.

I think when it comes to BobbieL and I, we would have not one it even without Crowder. To me, if we don't win a championship it's a complete bust. If we do win 1 championship, to me, it will depend on what happens over the next 7-10 years for me to decide if that 1 championship was worth all that we gave up. I know I am in a very small minority but I'm not a ringz/championship or bust guy. I enjoy watching teams I like, like the 88-95 teams and the SSOL Suns, largely organically grown...we did add Barkley at the tail end of our first team, and got back Nash who we had drafted. All we really have left now is Booker and Ayton. I guess you can add TJ but he's only likely here for this year.

If Suns will win thir first title ever then I don't care what comes after that.