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2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1401 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:59 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I think we'd do Houston and Dallas. ITht's probably about it.


I'd be content with the Houston one. The Dallas one would be meh (IF Irving) only because it'd be swapping one major positional hole for another. But If we traded Ayton for Irving, then it'd become paramount for us to explore moving Paul (possibly Shamet too) in a deal for cap space so we could pursue another center in free agency? IF the flakers or Dallas lose out on their guards resigning with them, Would they become potential trade partners for Paul?


Trading Paul wouldn't give us cap space. We are WAY over the cap. You can forget cap space for awhile. Do you ever look at cap sheets? Might save you a lot of time. We are in the tax. You have to be like $30 million over the cap to even hit the tax, so we are over $30 million over the cap...with Book, KD and DA's contracts going up every year...and if we swapped DA for Kyrie, Kyrie would likely have a bigger contract.


Sure I understand what you're saying is right man! And I do look over the cap sheets sometimes, though admittedly my post stroke memory has occasional lapses at times so my apologies for forgetting specific details sometimes. But I will also point out that we're not just discussing trading Paul's salary alone in my posted premise. But we'd be looking at moving BOTH Paul and Ayton and perhaps even Shamet attached in one of those deals. IF possible, then we might be able to shed around 40-50 million or more in total depending on what we'd be taking back conceptually? And that conceptually would be a BIG JUMP in the right direction towards cleaning up our books and starting to work towards creating a modicum of increased cap flexibility to make roster alterations around or core. But with respect to your point about how far over the cap we're looking to be, what around 73 million over so far and climbing annually. So my point again is not in that we'd get fully clear under the cap, but that we begin working our way back to acquiring some flexibility to give us more options over Durant's next two years with us. But also even looking beyond that possibly to more long term sustainability overall. I'm just not sure what our better alternative would be considering the restrictive nature of our cap situation. I just feel we're in this situation because our overall salaries are top heavy and unbalanced.

Sure we have vet mins that are one one yr deals. But that's a catch 22 situation for us because IF we don't have any cap flexibility and they somehow overplay their deals, then we likely lose them to teams with more cap and more lucrative offers. And if they don't perform well or consistently, then they offer no trade value for us as fillers or sweeteners. Moving Paul for an unguaranteed contract or a cheaper expiring gives us a head start towards correcting our books. Moving Ayton for a lesser salary (even if a lesser value talent) would further that head start towards balancing our books and would somewhat offset those core escalations too. That's a good start! Then of course getting back players (for depth) on cheaper cost controlled contracts also helps that corrective strategy too. Finally, properly valuing and utilizing the draft sooner rather than later gives us low cost contractually controlled depth. BUT ALSO, It can give us premium young contractually controlled talent with perceivable upside that we could actually leverage in trades as opposed to our oft underperforming vet min bench cast offs that no team finds desirable. I'm only looking to try to give us some options. :dontknow:
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1402 » by Saberestar » Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:44 pm

Ishbia acquired KD, is getting the Suns a G-League affiliate again, and is taking down cable RSNs himself. An impressive stretch to say the least.

All that's left is the 1st title in franchise history.

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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1403 » by Puff » Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:17 pm

I have despised the play of Landry as much as everyone else and cannot understand why he gets plying time.

The only reason I can think of is his size to match up with the Clipper Wings along with Cam Payne not providing anything.

Does anyone have Landry's defensive stats for the Clipper series? His offense obviously sucked.

Unfortunately, I can see him getting PT in the Denver series as well.

I wish we would have added Saben Lee to out playoff roster and dropped one of the players that just sits on the bench watching. Ish would be one of the candidates.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1404 » by King4Day » Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:28 pm

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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1405 » by kennydorglas » Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:33 pm

Puff wrote:I have despised the play of Landry as much as everyone else and cannot understand why he gets plying time.

The only reason I can think of is his size to match up with the Clipper Wings along with Cam Payne not providing anything.

Does anyone have Landry's defensive stats for the Clipper series? His offense obviously sucked.

Unfortunately, I can see him getting PT in the Denver series as well.

I wish we would have added Saben Lee to out playoff roster and dropped one of the players that just sits on the bench watching. Ish would be one of the candidates.


His net rating in the series was -52 (70 ORtg / 122 DRtg)
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1406 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:30 am

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2285752

Interesting Ayton trade on the trade board. The OP has it as a 3 team trade with Phoenix, Portland and Milwaukee.

Portland- Ayton.
Milwaukee- Simons.
Phoenix- Portis/ Nurkic/ 2023 Knicks pick (ironically #23).

I kind of see this as too good of value for us, and wasn't sure that Portland fans would be willing to give up Simon's in a deal for Ayton. But surprisingly enough it seems they're mostly all on board. Another blazers fan mentioned instead just cutting Milwaukee out and doing:

Ayton for Simons/ Nurkic and the 23rd pick (Knicks). I gotta say I think I'd be good either way though. But overall it shows interest in Ayton towards a potential Portland trade. Would you guys do either of these trades?
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1407 » by garrick » Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:30 am

Man I can't tell if the Lakers are just that good or Memphis is just bad but the Lakers are blowing Memphis out badly in game 6.

Sacramento or GSW are going to have their hands full in the second round...
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1408 » by SunsRback4Good » Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:49 am

garrick wrote:Man I can't tell if the Lakers are just that good or Memphis is just bad but the Lakers are blowing Memphis out badly in game 6.

Sacramento or GSW are going to have their hands full in the second round...



Lakers are benefiting from Grizzlies missing their two centers and Ja being injured and not 100% healthy. If grizzlies had their entire team I see them beating LA in 6. But kinda hard to compete when LA has too many bigs going up against role players.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1409 » by garrick » Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:06 am

SunsRback4Good wrote:
garrick wrote:Man I can't tell if the Lakers are just that good or Memphis is just bad but the Lakers are blowing Memphis out badly in game 6.

Sacramento or GSW are going to have their hands full in the second round...



Lakers are benefiting from Grizzlies missing their two centers and Ja being injured and not 100% healthy. If grizzlies had their entire team I see them beating LA in 6. But kinda hard to compete when LA has too many bigs going up against role players.


I don't think it's just that though. Too much of the offense revolves around Ja hero ball trying to dunk over people which isn't a very efficient offense & leads to Ja getting injured when he comes crashing to the ground off attempted highlight reel dunks.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1410 » by SunsRback4Good » Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:32 am

garrick wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
garrick wrote:Man I can't tell if the Lakers are just that good or Memphis is just bad but the Lakers are blowing Memphis out badly in game 6.

Sacramento or GSW are going to have their hands full in the second round...



Lakers are benefiting from Grizzlies missing their two centers and Ja being injured and not 100% healthy. If grizzlies had their entire team I see them beating LA in text 6. But kinda hard to compete when LA has too many bigs going up against role players.


I don't think it's just that though. Too much of the offense revolves around Ja hero ball trying to dunk over people which isn't a very efficient offense & leads to Ja getting injured when he comes crashing to the ground off attempted highlight reel dunks.


Yeah, you’re correct and I agree Ja playing this way could result in a career ending injury similar to what Derrick Rose experienced. But it’s difficult for a player to completely change their entire game after playing a certain ways for many years in attempt to avoid a significant injury.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1411 » by MrMiyagi » Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:47 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2285752

Interesting Ayton trade on the trade board. The OP has it as a 3 team trade with Phoenix, Portland and Milwaukee.

Portland- Ayton.
Milwaukee- Simons.
Phoenix- Portis/ Nurkic/ 2023 Knicks pick (ironically #23).

I kind of see this as too good of value for us, and wasn't sure that Portland fans would be willing to give up Simon's in a deal for Ayton. But surprisingly enough it seems they're mostly all on board. Another blazers fan mentioned instead just cutting Milwaukee out and doing:

Ayton for Simons/ Nurkic and the 23rd pick (Knicks). I gotta say I think I'd be good either way though. But overall it shows interest in Ayton towards a potential Portland trade. Would you guys do either of these trades?


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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1412 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:47 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2285752

Interesting Ayton trade on the trade board. The OP has it as a 3 team trade with Phoenix, Portland and Milwaukee.

Portland- Ayton.
Milwaukee- Simons.
Phoenix- Portis/ Nurkic/ 2023 Knicks pick (ironically #23).

I kind of see this as too good of value for us, and wasn't sure that Portland fans would be willing to give up Simon's in a deal for Ayton. But surprisingly enough it seems they're mostly all on board. Another blazers fan mentioned instead just cutting Milwaukee out and doing:

Ayton for Simons/ Nurkic and the 23rd pick (Knicks). I gotta say I think I'd be good either way though. But overall it shows interest in Ayton towards a potential Portland trade. Would you guys do either of these trades?


GoK, are you okay my guy?

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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1413 » by SunsRback4Good » Sat Apr 29, 2023 7:21 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2285752

Interesting Ayton trade on the trade board. The OP has it as a 3 team trade with Phoenix, Portland and Milwaukee.

Portland- Ayton.
Milwaukee- Simons.
Phoenix- Portis/ Nurkic/ 2023 Knicks pick (ironically #23).

I kind of see this as too good of value for us, and wasn't sure that Portland fans would be willing to give up Simon's in a deal for Ayton. But surprisingly enough it seems they're mostly all on board. Another blazers fan mentioned instead just cutting Milwaukee out and doing:

Ayton for Simons/ Nurkic and the 23rd pick (Knicks). I gotta say I think I'd be good either way though. But overall it shows interest in Ayton towards a potential Portland trade. Would you guys do either of these trades?


GoK, are you okay my guy?

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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1414 » by Ryu » Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:09 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2285752

Interesting Ayton trade on the trade board. The OP has it as a 3 team trade with Phoenix, Portland and Milwaukee.

Portland- Ayton.
Milwaukee- Simons.
Phoenix- Portis/ Nurkic/ 2023 Knicks pick (ironically #23).

I kind of see this as too good of value for us, and wasn't sure that Portland fans would be willing to give up Simon's in a deal for Ayton. But surprisingly enough it seems they're mostly all on board. Another blazers fan mentioned instead just cutting Milwaukee out and doing:

Ayton for Simons/ Nurkic and the 23rd pick (Knicks). I gotta say I think I'd be good either way though. But overall it shows interest in Ayton towards a potential Portland trade. Would you guys do either of these trades?


Thats the terrible trade for us, GoK.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1415 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 29, 2023 7:15 pm

Spoiler:
Ryu wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2285752

Interesting Ayton trade on the trade board. The OP has it as a 3 team trade with Phoenix, Portland and Milwaukee.

Portland- Ayton.
Milwaukee- Simons.
Phoenix- Portis/ Nurkic/ 2023 Knicks pick (ironically #23).

I kind of see this as too good of value for us, and wasn't sure that Portland fans would be willing to give up Simon's in a deal for Ayton. But surprisingly enough it seems they're mostly all on board. Another blazers fan mentioned instead just cutting Milwaukee out and doing:

Ayton for Simons/ Nurkic and the 23rd pick (Knicks). I gotta say I think I'd be good either way though. But overall it shows interest in Ayton towards a potential Portland trade. Would you guys do either of these trades?



Ryu wrote: Thats the terrible trade for us, GoK.


For sure it's far from ideal or the level of value that I'd (personally) prefer to get back for a player of Ayton's caliber/ arch potential. And the initial trade is not as palatable as cutting out Milwaukee and taking back Simon's ourselves would be ( my preference here). But the problem is simply that in any trade postulation we explore/ discuss involving Ayton won't return equitable or positive value due to his contract salary commitment in contrast to the current percieved value on the center position as well as his enigmatic production/ impact at that incurred cost for thr receiving team. We'll get lesser value because they'll be taking on his salary as a prominent consideration.

Now with this trade, we'd essentially be getting back a 20+ point per game scoring guard to replace Payne? And an equivalent production (although not as mobile and versatile) center in Nurkic who has more size and is a better 3 pt shooter ( if any consolation) at half the price of Ayfons' deal. AND we'd at least recoup one of the firsts we sent out in the Durant trade that could fill another depth position, but at a higher range than our second alone.

This trade is not optimal value premise, but an equitable value premise still as it would replace our hole at the 5 with a cheaper reasonable starting option with similar production and better 3 pt shooting/ rebounding. It would also address our point guard depth issues with Simons. And Simons could reasonably play alongside of Booker in" Point Book" situations. And it would also return a premium pick to replace one of the ones we lost in the trade which helps add more COST CONTROLLED DEPTH to offset our top heavy contracts and add more legitimate talent to our roster.

It's not my favorite conceptual postulation IF the front office's plan is in fact to move Ayton this summer. But it is one of the most reasonable that addresses multiple considerations for us. And is more equitable in terms of current value perceptions I'd think. Overall my preference in this premise (of my previously posted trades) would be:

1- Houston trade, 2- Portland, 3- Dallas, 4- Detroit, 5- Flakers.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1416 » by kennydorglas » Sat Apr 29, 2023 7:32 pm

Simons + 1st pick is prob the best we could get for Ayton if we're being really honest here.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1417 » by MrMiyagi » Sat Apr 29, 2023 7:37 pm

kennydorglas wrote:Simons + 1st pick is prob the best we could get for Ayton if we're being really honest here.
Doesn't mean it's good or we should do it
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1418 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Apr 29, 2023 7:55 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Simons + 1st pick is prob the best we could get for Ayton if we're being really honest here.
Doesn't mean it's good or we should do it


Yep! It's just one hypothetical postulation that I came across on the trade and transaction board ( in boredom) that was suggested by Jredsaz. It's not my preference to move Ayton. And I think if our new front office brain trust is at all clever in the offseason, We could find a way to move Paul/ Shamet for some cap reduction and minor asset acquisition to begin offsetting our top heavy salary commitments. It would take some impressive ingenuity and strategizing from our front office, but I believe it's still entirely plausible in the right situation.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1419 » by bwgood77 » Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:52 pm

garrick wrote:Man I can't tell if the Lakers are just that good or Memphis is just bad but the Lakers are blowing Memphis out badly in game 6.

Sacramento or GSW are going to have their hands full in the second round...


I don't think Memphis is nearly as good without Adams and Clarke. The Lakers are tough but they rarely shoot well. I don't see them as a problem really. I do think the bubble team was a little better. The stars were 3 years younger and their guards were great defenders and 3 pt shooters (KCP, Caruso) and Rondo was still playing well, plus Kuzma as a 6th man type.

I do think Vanderbilt is good, Russell is up and down and Reeves is pretty good.Monk is a nice guy off the bench. They were much better defensively then on the perimeter and LeBron was still in his prime.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1420 » by TeamTragic » Sat Apr 29, 2023 9:01 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
garrick wrote:Man I can't tell if the Lakers are just that good or Memphis is just bad but the Lakers are blowing Memphis out badly in game 6.

Sacramento or GSW are going to have their hands full in the second round...


I don't think Memphis is nearly as good without Adams and Clarke. The Lakers are tough but they rarely shoot well. I don't see them as a problem really. I do think the bubble team was a little better. The stars were 3 years younger and their guards were great defenders and 3 pt shooters (KCP, Caruso) and Rondo was still playing well, plus Kuzma as a 6th man type.

I do think Vanderbilt is good, Russell is up and down and Reeves is pretty good.Monk is a nice guy off the bench. They were much better defensively then on the perimeter and LeBron was still in his prime.


Mailk Monk plays for the Kings.

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