2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

[SkyBill40]

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Lolmao, brutal.

plus the highest payroll in the league

League HISTORY if we're being honest.

Sent from my SM-F936U using RealGM mobile app

[Ghost of Kleine]

Ishiba is blinded by Booker's pseudo aura... Booker is Lavine level. Carmelo Anthony of shooting guards.

Or perhaps a moderately better version of Allen Houston??

[Rebound Mound]

[Ghost of Kleine]

Markannen would be a dream, but I believe Beal will not land us anything more than less than the package that you are proposing with Bulls. I believe the Bulls are OK with Ball at PG, while White is playing at ASG level plus and is fine a the SG position, unless they consider him a PG.

It is sad, but I see all these trades as getting something not very useful in return, but given the level that Beal is showing during the last games, I believe it is going to be a sad return.

That's probably a fair assessment given the general optics of the situation man. But let me explain my reasoning behind why I see these suggestions as feasible outside of normal trade and market value conditions:

1- Chicago

Spoiler:

I see this as logically feasible due to these factors, First, The Bulls have a significant glut at guard with having all of Giddey, Ball, White, Carter, Jones, Young, etc.

But they are however still kind of short on legitimate SG depth options with listing only Ball who's not really a good shooter, scorer, Huerter who's at times solid, but not consistent honestly.

And White has actually evolved more into being a PG option with his playmaking/ assists than a full on scoring guard option.

The Bulls also don't legitimately have any star options. But rather just a roster of high level complimentary players. Adding Beal gives them that first option they gave up in trading Lavine.

Additionally, Beal could be a great backcourt compliment to Giddey for them. Billy Donavon ( the Bulls coach) also just happened to coach Beal at Florida when he was at his best, so there's already a strong connection there for both involved.

And Beal's home/ family would be very close to offer support for him which he obviously didn't recieve enough of here! Lastly, taking back equitable salary allows Chicago to maintain flexibility towards roster modifications and getting a 1st or two as a sweetener in the deal is a desirable closing consideration.

2- Orlando

Spoiler:

I see this as logically possible because Orlando has been in the market with profound stated interest for a dominant offensive lead guard option for years now but gas been unsuccessful. They've even been rumored a few times as a potential trade partner for Beal too.

Beal would check a lot of Boxes there for them, could be their #1 option, as they currently don't yet have a tenured established one outside of their still very young only partially proven core of Wagner and Banchero. But still, neither are really dominant established shooters/ scorers on the level of Beal yet.

Now adding an established scorer such as Beal would actually give them legitimate star value to run their offense through so their young options could play off of him with much less pressures.

And add in Beal's motivation for playing in Florida again wherein he experienced a happy situation in college, as well as the weather environment considerations too, only further bodes well for both parties interests and overall motivation towards success.

Also, Beal's religious commitment standards would align well with the Magics' ownership as a desirable factor.

And lastly, taking back equitable salary in trade for Beal maintains necessary flexibility for them to build out their roster and softens the blow of taking back his big contract. Getting an additional 1st or two as a sweetener in the trade helps close the deal too.

3- Washington

Spoiler:

I see this trade as logically feasible due to their past history, Beal's scoring benchmarks/ career accolades pursuits playing a factor in mutual interest.

Additionally, there's Washington's mutual interest in becoming more competitive and competing for the playoffs aligning with Beal's stated goals at this point in his career. Also given their overall familiarity with one another, there'd at least be a level of comfortability between them in a reunion.

And the last important factor to consider would be Washington's interests in acquiring more draft assets in the process, which Phoenix can painfully accommodate.

*** Markannen trade***

Spoiler:

I see this as logically feasible due to the current situation of the Utah Jazz, their interests in tanking/ rebuilding further, Markannens' overall contract value in comparison to his current statistical production, and the likely chasm that's growing between Markannen and the Jazzs' (Ainge, etc rebuilding interests).

This growing difference in pathway commitment will likely cause Markannen to prefer a trade as opposed to enduring a complete bottom out rebuild option.

Also, while Markannens' contract isn't considered the worst value in the league, it's definitely up there in range as overpaid by a notable margin for the production he offers. This would matter because in trading for Beal, the Jazz could g4t off of his long term money earlier and stave at least 2 yrs and $102 million off their books.

Possibly much more if they can negotiate an early buyout?? And because Markannen and the Jazz are on different competitive timelines right now with obviously different goals, a mutual separation makes a lot of sense.

Thank you for your detailed explanation. You always take the time to create interesting posts.

I would love to see the Bulls taking Beal while we get Vucevic and Ball. Both are entering their final year and both could be serviceable players for us, especially Ball besides Booker. Vucevic could be a good complement to Richards in that he can shoot, pass and be intelligent in many situations.
But I cannot see any reason why the Bulls would want Beal if we do not sweeten the deal with picks (what picks, we have not got any) or players that could be attractive to them (Oneale, Allen). Complicated situation to deal Beal, my friend...

You're very welcome man!

And you're absolutely right that they'd very likely want incentives. For my part, I'm willing to go as far as to add our CLE 27' 1st and/or take back Patrick Williams. That's how confident I am in the role Lonzo Ball could play next to Booker in the backcourt as a 6'8, low-usage, strong defensive, athletic, elite playmaking point guard compliment. And then Vucevic as a very versatile floor spacing starting caliber center that would allow us to move Richards to the bench for better depth in a role that'd fit him more as a career backup big!

** I would actually follow this trade up with an Allen/ Richards to Orlando for Bidatze/ Harris ($7 million expiring)/ DEN 25' 2nd (46th pick)/ BOS 25' 2nd ( 57th pick). Then start Vucevic with Bidatze as the backup and Ighodaro as the 3rd rotation option for us!

[BobbieL]

It's Friday, Friday
Gotta get down on Friday
Everybody's lookin' forward to the weekend, weekend
Friday, Friday
Gettin' down on Friday
Everybody's lookin' forward to the weekend

bang the cowbells
flash the four
(doug and wolf show)

everybodys working for the weekend

Granted, living in Phoenix for many years I go back to the Morning Mayor Dave Pratt, rocking on the red block playing Loverboy before signing off for the week on Fridays

[handsome salary]

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And you did what about the slow bleed all season Book...hoop, shrug, chill?

Another disappointing season ending passive aggressive take from Devin. Heard it before.

He'll do fine when having real leadership around him like Udoka.
Years from now he can give interviews saying how bad he feels for Suns fans cause he wasn't able to get that elusive title for us. "It just wasn't in the cards."

[BobbieL]

They also traded Ayton amd Tumani for what ended up being a 3rd string center who won't see minutes on 29 other teams and an uninspired and tuned out Grayson Allen... who Tumani alone is looking to be better than.

Ishiba is Literally worse than Sarver.... Sarver was good at retaining some good players at least.

It's suicide fuel for those who are true suns fans.

This is why we don't need to be giving away more assets to get rid of Beal.

Thank you!!!

Agree with you both
And again, what are you truly getting for that draft pick just to move off of beal
You probably are not getting a difference making player
You might be getting back three smaller contracts but like Isaac or PWill go through 2029
Beal expires in 2027 - that should be the timeline

[thamadkant]

Because Suns swapped picks with Wizards, would Suns getting their own picks back mean that Wizards get to swap with those picks in the event those Suns picks (from Rockets) end up being higher?


Suns FO really messed up.... as in really sold the future literally for this awful "super" team.

[kennydorglas]

Not sure how ishbia will fix this mess.
Maybe relocate and sell to cut his losses short.

[Slim Charless]

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And you did what about the slow bleed all season Book...hoop, shrug, chill?

Another disappointing season ending passive aggressive take from Devin. Heard it before.

He'll do fine when having real leadership around him like Udoka.
Years from now he can give interviews saying how bad he feels for Suns fans cause he just wasn't able to get that elusive title for us. "It just wasn't in the cards."

I'd rather us send him to OKC for Chet or JDubb and Caruso plus filler. Then send Durant to HOU for our picks.

Either way, Booker needs to go. Unfortunately.

[Ghost of Kleine]

VanVleets 45m team option turned out to be genius.

Saves them from having to offer any young starters.

2027, 2029, VanVleet (we decline the team option) would probably be 90% of the deal for Durant.

If a team can take Beal and 2 firsts into cap space, wed be at around $90m salary

So that I'm not misunderstanding things here? What is the utility goal of this trade in a strategy for us to get better, man? I ask because it appears we're trading KD to Houston in a low-key salary dump maneuver?? Two questions.....................................................

1- IF rebuilding? How does this trade return value for us towards building an athletic high potential long-term competitive core? In this premise, We're not getting back even one athletic, young, cost-controlled talent with high upside potential, even though this very team we're trading KD to is absolutely loaded with elite athletic, physical, high-end potential young cost-controlled talent with great defensive acumen/ skillsets that would Ideally fit our most critical needs! And also give us an infusion of young, exciting, energizing talent to help expedite our long-term core as well as to add key pieces that could grow with/ compliment Booker athletically and competitively!

We're also not getting back the best value pick of our 3 1sts in the 25' lotto pick that could really represent the best immediate value of the three picks as a known premium commodity. And more importantly a high-impact piece to help us be more competitive quicker while Booker is still here. So ultimately, we're easily giving up the best value in the trade while only getting back minimal value return in the form of cap savings. But cap savings guarantee us nothing really in securing any big-name free agents or key pieces as we'd have to bid against numerous other teams in more desirable situations than ours. It's giving up a "bird in hand" scenario for uncertainty. It just seems counterproductive and unnecessary considering our short-term/long-term trajectory, man?

2- If trying to compete for the next 2-3 years with Booker and delay our inevitable rebuild? How does salary-dumping KD truly help us in this scenario? Again, we're already not good enough to even make the play-in and are low-key a lottery team, even with Booker and KD experiencing their healthiest seasons in years. So, logically, we'll get much worse without his scoring, gravity, and statistical/big-shot-making impact. What's the plan to make up for that surrendered talent? IF only getting significant cap space to try and sign free agents a whole year from now in 26 free agency because this summer is very shallow on talent. Again, we're not getting any young, elite, proven player talent back from Houston, and also not getting back any lottery pick that we could actually utilize this very summer to help add a premium positional talent that could help us/ Booker to replace some of the talent given up from trading KD, what's the strategic pay off in this trade that allows us to legitimately improve enough to justify not getting any young core talent back or a cost controlled top 10 lotto pick in this deal??

These considerations are why I, for my part, wouldn't do this trade and see it as very poor, borderline negligent value that easily heavily favors Houston while returning "pennies on the dollar" value in return for us. I do like the cap-shedding idea, but even that at $ 45 million just isn't a reasonable value return alone for a player of KDs' caliber. And especially not considering our most critical needs to turn things around. Now if you increased the overall value beyond just a salary dump and two future 1sts (unknown value commodity), to something like:

KD for Van Vleet/ J Smith Jr/ PHX 25' 1st ( 9th pick)/ PHX 27' 1st.
OR
KD for Van Vleet/ Eason/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st ( 9th pick)/ PHX 27' 1st.

Either of those packages would be equitable value in a KD trade. But short of adding in two young talents and the 25' 1st this summer, the initial package is honestly significantly short of KD's consensus market value. Moreso, too, when there'll be multiple bidders competing for him this summer!

[handsome salary]

Luka and the Lakers are gonna run the Pacific Division for at least the next three years. That's how good he is and how aging and/or bad the rest of the division is.

Hence I am 100% OK in trading Booker, KD to any of Thunder, Rockets, even Warriors and Spurs.... help those teams top up to ensure Luka and Lakers don't make it out of West.

NBA wants Celtics vs Lakers to be a thing in the next 3 or so years.... but suns can definitely prevent that and ensure Laker fans can go **** themselves.

They may as well rename the Suns arena crypto jr. Every game the Lakers have here its gonna be wall to wall Lakers and Luka fans yucking it up. Being in last place Suns tickets will be very inexpensive.

[Djedefre]

Not sure how ishbia will fix this mess.
Maybe relocate and sell to cut his losses short.

He can only relocate his delusional incompetent ass wherever he f***ing wants.

[BobbieL]

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And you did what about the slow bleed all season Book...hoop, shrug, chill?

Another disappointing season ending passive aggressive take from Devin. Heard it before.

He'll do fine when having real leadership around him like Udoka.
Years from now he can give interviews saying how bad he feels for Suns fans cause he just wasn't able to get that elusive title for us. "It just wasn't in the cards."

I'd rather us send him to OKC for Chet or JDubb and Caruso plus filler. Then send Durant to HOU for our picks.

Either way, Booker needs to go. Unfortunately.

its time - booker needs to go
I don't even say unfortunately
the team is bigger than he is
go date jenner again dude

[dremill24]

Because Suns swapped picks with Wizards, would Suns getting their own picks back mean that Wizards get to swap with those picks in the event those Suns picks (from Rockets) end up being higher?


Suns FO really messed up.... as in really sold the future literally for this awful "super" team.

The pick swap rights owned by the Wizards and others are in different years than the outright picks owned by the Rockets. Those are different picks and would not intertwine.

[Frank Lee]

Christ… y’all shttt on Booker, but then play trade games and fantasize about colossal returns.

Same with Beal… somehow he has value?

Take your crappy trades to the opposing fan bases and see what they say. Y’all got no guts just spewing the same nonsense over and over on this site, with the gratuitous reach arounds from the same chinwipers…….. you know who I’m talking about.
The broken record Dutch rudder brudders.

There is a thread on the trade board discussing Beal… and it goes no where. No body wants this guy dudes… oh sure, we add a couple picks and he’s gone, but since when does a late first rounder or two cost 110 mill? Trash out gets you trash in.

Try this exercise may be… since you have months before anything will happen… come up with a trade for Booker and or Durant that does not involve Houston or Detroit. if you can’t, then where is the leverage? Teams are not going to make the same mistake and gut their squads for either of our second fiddles. We are the ones over the barrel.

[sunsbum]

Christ… y’all shttt on Booker, but then play trade games and fantasize about colossal returns.

Same with Beal… somehow he has value?

Take your crappy trades to the opposing fan bases and see what they say. Y’all got no guts just spewing the same nonsense over and over on this site, with the gratuitous reach arounds from the same chinwipers…….. you know who I’m talking about.
The broken record Dutch rudder brudders.

There is a thread on the trade board discussing Beal… and it goes no where. No body wants this guy dudes… oh sure, we add a couple picks and he’s gone, but since when does a late first rounder or two cost 110 mill? Trash out gets you trash in.

Try this exercise may be… since you have months before anything will happen… come up with a trade for Booker and or Durant that does not involve Houston or Detroit. if you can’t, then where is the leverage? Teams are not going to make the same mistake and gut their squads for either of our second fiddles. We are the ones over the barrel.

Remember, Book is zach lavine to them, so you should expect something along the lines of Zach Collins, Tre Jones, Kevin Huerter, and a mid 2025 first-round pick.

[BobbieL]

Christ… y’all shttt on Booker, but then play trade games and fantasize about colossal returns.

Same with Beal… somehow he has value?

Take your crappy trades to the opposing fan bases and see what they say. Y’all got no guts just spewing the same nonsense over and over on this site, with the gratuitous reach arounds from the same chinwipers…….. you know who I’m talking about.
The broken record Dutch rudder brudders.

There is a thread on the trade board discussing Beal… and it goes no where. No body wants this guy dudes… oh sure, we add a couple picks and he’s gone, but since when does a late first rounder or two cost 110 mill? Trash out gets you trash in.

Try this exercise may be… since you have months before anything will happen… come up with a trade for Booker and or Durant that does not involve Houston or Detroit. if you can’t, then where is the leverage? Teams are not going to make the same mistake and gut their squads for either of our second fiddles. We are the ones over the barrel.

Beal doesn't have any real trade value unless a pick is outgoing - so not good

As for teams trading - see what teams flame out in the playoffs
Detroit and Houston losing in R1 would be good
Knicks underperforming for Booker
maybe the TWolves for Durant
The Heat - I don't like them as a partner

[thamadkant]

Because Suns swapped picks with Wizards, would Suns getting their own picks back mean that Wizards get to swap with those picks in the event those Suns picks (from Rockets) end up being higher?


Suns FO really messed up.... as in really sold the future literally for this awful "super" team.

The pick swap rights owned by the Wizards and others are in different years than the outright picks owned by the Rockets. Those are different picks and would not intertwine.

Suns literally traded out all their lottery picks until 2032 then. Best they can get are like late first rounders rounders. Just sickening.

[Slim Charless]

Christ… y’all shttt on Booker, but then play trade games and fantasize about colossal returns.

Same with Beal… somehow he has value?

Take your crappy trades to the opposing fan bases and see what they say. Y’all got no guts just spewing the same nonsense over and over on this site, with the gratuitous reach arounds from the same chinwipers…….. you know who I’m talking about.
The broken record Dutch rudder brudders.

There is a thread on the trade board discussing Beal… and it goes no where. No body wants this guy dudes… oh sure, we add a couple picks and he’s gone, but since when does a late first rounder or two cost 110 mill? Trash out gets you trash in.

Try this exercise may be… since you have months before anything will happen… come up with a trade for Booker and or Durant that does not involve Houston or Detroit. if you can’t, then where is the leverage? Teams are not going to make the same mistake and gut their squads for either of our second fiddles. We are the ones over the barrel.

Remember, Book is zach lavine to them, so you should expect something along the lines of Zach Collins, Tre Jones, Kevin Huerter, and a mid 2025 first-round pick.

I said Chet Holmgren, Caruso and filler (Isiah Joe maybe who's an awesome shooter). OKC, if they fall is an easy call for either KD or Booker. We say HOU/DET alot because they have the most obvious landing spots. Both in picks/young players but also (in DETs case) cap room to absorb players.


So no idea who said Lavine=Booker....that's an incorrect take. Very incorrect.