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The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1421 » by bwgood77 » Sun May 15, 2016 11:02 pm

letsgosuns wrote:I think you really misunderstood what I said. First off, I never said Booker was anywhere near Lillard right now. I said he is to the Suns what Lillard is to the Blazers. Their main guy. I was comparing roles on the team. This writer said Booker plays Crabbe's role and I completely disagree. The Phoenix Suns are making Booker the face of the franchise as a few articles have already stated. Crabbe is not the face of the Blazers franchise.

Secondly, I believe people are beyond overestimating what the Blazers are. I have seen it happen so many times. It happened with the 2003 Suns. Everyone saw the Suns take the Spurs to six games in the first round and thought Marbury, Marion, and Amare would eventually be a juggernaut. They came back to reality the next year and the team traded Marbury and Hardaway. The same thing happened with the 2013-14 Suns. They won 48 games and people thought they were so much better than they really were. It was a fluke.

Here is what I think of the Blazers. They are a good team. They have two excellent guards. Far better than what the Suns have. In fact, of the Suns guards, I only think Booker has the potential to be on Lillard's level one day. Anyway, what happened to them this year. They won 44 games. They made the playoffs. They were blown out in games one and two of their first round series. Annihilated. They won game three at home as they have one of the best home crowds in the NBA and always have. And when you have that, even mediocre teams can win at home against top teams. Then what happened. Paul and Griffin got hurt. Boom. End of the series. Over. Finished. All the Blazers had to do was show up and they win.

Then the Blazers face the Warriors without Curry the first four games. Go down 3-1. Are they competitive? Yes. But who cares. The Suns were very competitive in Golden State that one game towards the end of the season too. Knight went crazy in the third quarter and even Len had a great game. The Suns almost won that game and the Warriors had Curry and it was in Golden State. So does that make this Suns team close to accomplishing anything? No.

Let's assume for hypothetical purposes that Paul and Griffin did not get injured and the Blazers lose in the first round in five games. So 44 wins and a first round exit in five games is their season's result. Still want to follow their blueprint? Because the bottom line about their team is they won 44 games. That is more indicative of who they really are. Their second round appearance in the playoffs is predicated on the fact that they played a far better team that unfortunately suffered major injuries to its two star players.

Are the Blazers building something? Absolutely. As I mentioned previously, I think they should go after Whiteside and/or Horford. One of those guys plus another free agent could elevate them to elite status. Without that though, the Blazers will not go anywhere if all they have are role playing frontcourt players. You need way more than that. But that is what the article wants the Suns to do. Go after role playing big men to build the team as if that is the first step towards building winner. Newsflash. The Suns already have role playing big men. Chandler is the ultimate role playing defensive center. Former defensive player of the year. What the Suns are missing is all-stars. I said to use the blueprint of the Warriors in the sense the Suns should model their team after a champion, not the loser. How is that hard to understand. The author wants the Suns to follow a blueprint of a team that won 44 games and lost in the playoffs. If that is not ultimately the dumbest way to build your team, Idk what is.


The Blazers were expected to be one of the worst teams in the league after losing 4 out of 5 of their starters. Then they end up getting the 5 seed and yes, get blown out by a very experienced team featuring two of the best players in the game.

You act like they have reached their ceiling, when they are full of young guys.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1422 » by letsgosuns » Sun May 15, 2016 11:29 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:I think you really misunderstood what I said. First off, I never said Booker was anywhere near Lillard right now. I said he is to the Suns what Lillard is to the Blazers. Their main guy. I was comparing roles on the team. This writer said Booker plays Crabbe's role and I completely disagree. The Phoenix Suns are making Booker the face of the franchise as a few articles have already stated. Crabbe is not the face of the Blazers franchise.

Secondly, I believe people are beyond overestimating what the Blazers are. I have seen it happen so many times. It happened with the 2003 Suns. Everyone saw the Suns take the Spurs to six games in the first round and thought Marbury, Marion, and Amare would eventually be a juggernaut. They came back to reality the next year and the team traded Marbury and Hardaway. The same thing happened with the 2013-14 Suns. They won 48 games and people thought they were so much better than they really were. It was a fluke.

Here is what I think of the Blazers. They are a good team. They have two excellent guards. Far better than what the Suns have. In fact, of the Suns guards, I only think Booker has the potential to be on Lillard's level one day. Anyway, what happened to them this year. They won 44 games. They made the playoffs. They were blown out in games one and two of their first round series. Annihilated. They won game three at home as they have one of the best home crowds in the NBA and always have. And when you have that, even mediocre teams can win at home against top teams. Then what happened. Paul and Griffin got hurt. Boom. End of the series. Over. Finished. All the Blazers had to do was show up and they win.

Then the Blazers face the Warriors without Curry the first four games. Go down 3-1. Are they competitive? Yes. But who cares. The Suns were very competitive in Golden State that one game towards the end of the season too. Knight went crazy in the third quarter and even Len had a great game. The Suns almost won that game and the Warriors had Curry and it was in Golden State. So does that make this Suns team close to accomplishing anything? No.

Let's assume for hypothetical purposes that Paul and Griffin did not get injured and the Blazers lose in the first round in five games. So 44 wins and a first round exit in five games is their season's result. Still want to follow their blueprint? Because the bottom line about their team is they won 44 games. That is more indicative of who they really are. Their second round appearance in the playoffs is predicated on the fact that they played a far better team that unfortunately suffered major injuries to its two star players.

Are the Blazers building something? Absolutely. As I mentioned previously, I think they should go after Whiteside and/or Horford. One of those guys plus another free agent could elevate them to elite status. Without that though, the Blazers will not go anywhere if all they have are role playing frontcourt players. You need way more than that. But that is what the article wants the Suns to do. Go after role playing big men to build the team as if that is the first step towards building winner. Newsflash. The Suns already have role playing big men. Chandler is the ultimate role playing defensive center. Former defensive player of the year. What the Suns are missing is all-stars. I said to use the blueprint of the Warriors in the sense the Suns should model their team after a champion, not the loser. How is that hard to understand. The author wants the Suns to follow a blueprint of a team that won 44 games and lost in the playoffs. If that is not ultimately the dumbest way to build your team, Idk what is.


The Blazers were expected to be one of the worst teams in the league after losing 4 out of 5 of their starters. Then they end up getting the 5 seed and yes, get blown out by a very experienced team featuring two of the best players in the game.

You act like they have reached their ceiling, when they are full of young guys.


How much better can that Blazers team get? Seriously? Lillard and McCollum played out of their minds against the Warriors and they still only won one game out of five and Curry missed three out of the five games. They combined to average 53 pts and 11 ast in the series. You think they can play better than that? The next step of their team is to acquire another star. Preferably a frontcourt star. Ask the Blazers if they would rather have Mason Plumlee or Hassan Whiteside. I think the answer is obvious.

I keep saying it. The Blazers won 44 games. That is who they are. They got the fifth seed because the west was terrible this year besides the top four seeds. Why would the Suns follow a blueprint of the Blazers? Not to mention, but Lillard and McCollum are light years ahead of Bledsoe and Knight and have defined roles unlike the Suns.

Regardless, my biggest issue with the article is the suggestion to keep a dual point guard lineup and add cheap versatile defenders in the frontcourt. Worst idea ever. Suns would be much better off eliminating the dual point guard lineup altogether and going forward with Bledsoe and Booker starting. That is what the Warriors do ya know. Have an actual traditional backcourt and they are the defending champions. The Blazers are merely a decent team. That is what I am trying to say. The Blazers are just whatever. Yet Suns fans are so desperate they are saying oh geez, I hope one day we can be like the Blazers. Win 44 games and get bounced in the playoffs. If the Suns keep their current team and add some defenders in the frontcourt like this article suggests, they will be right back at the 12-14 spot in the lottery like the prior years.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1423 » by saintEscaton » Sun May 15, 2016 11:58 pm

The Blazers backcourt works because Dame is a PG who can play SG in a pinch because he just as lethal off the ball spotting up. Same with McCollum who has the herky jerky hesitations moves, handle and playmaking ability to run the second unit, so they aren't screwed when either goes to the bench. If Booker is the 6th man, he will bring a much needed dimension and make up for some of the incompatibilities between Bledsoe/Knight
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1424 » by letsgosuns » Mon May 16, 2016 12:14 am

saintEscaton wrote:The Blazers backcourt works because Dame is a G who can play SG in a pinch because he just as lethal off the ball spotting up. Same with McCollum who has the herky jerky hesitations moves, handle and playmaking ability to run the second unit, so they aren't screwed when either goes to the bench.


That is another reason why I take issue with the article. Does anyone out there think Bledsoe/Knight is anything compared to Lillard/McCollum? I sure do not. Like I was saying, the only guard on the Suns I think that has all star potential is Booker. I do not think Bledsoe or Knight will ever do it. Not in the West at least. Bledsoe does not show up to half the games he plays and Knight is a moron. His basketball IQ is non-existant. So following the blueprint of the Blazers does not work on its face because the Blazers talent in the backcourt far outweighs the Suns.

So if the Suns try to do what the Blazers do, all they will be is a worse version of the Blazers. However, even if they could match the Blazers, it still is not good enough to win a championship. The Blazers are nowhere near a championship contender. They need so much more. So my entire point is why would you want to copy the model of a team that is not a championship contender. Furthermore, I do not think the Suns should be copying any team in the first place. The Suns need to acquire the best talent they can get at any position. If they want to be guard dominated, fine. But there is no way they can keep Bledsoe and Knight and expect to be any better than last year. They sucked terribly when they were full strength. Their best hope is that they can get a great prospect in the draft, trade Knight for the best package possible, and go from there.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1425 » by bwgood77 » Mon May 16, 2016 1:54 am

letsgosuns wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:I think you really misunderstood what I said. First off, I never said Booker was anywhere near Lillard right now. I said he is to the Suns what Lillard is to the Blazers. Their main guy. I was comparing roles on the team. This writer said Booker plays Crabbe's role and I completely disagree. The Phoenix Suns are making Booker the face of the franchise as a few articles have already stated. Crabbe is not the face of the Blazers franchise.

Secondly, I believe people are beyond overestimating what the Blazers are. I have seen it happen so many times. It happened with the 2003 Suns. Everyone saw the Suns take the Spurs to six games in the first round and thought Marbury, Marion, and Amare would eventually be a juggernaut. They came back to reality the next year and the team traded Marbury and Hardaway. The same thing happened with the 2013-14 Suns. They won 48 games and people thought they were so much better than they really were. It was a fluke.

Here is what I think of the Blazers. They are a good team. They have two excellent guards. Far better than what the Suns have. In fact, of the Suns guards, I only think Booker has the potential to be on Lillard's level one day. Anyway, what happened to them this year. They won 44 games. They made the playoffs. They were blown out in games one and two of their first round series. Annihilated. They won game three at home as they have one of the best home crowds in the NBA and always have. And when you have that, even mediocre teams can win at home against top teams. Then what happened. Paul and Griffin got hurt. Boom. End of the series. Over. Finished. All the Blazers had to do was show up and they win.

Then the Blazers face the Warriors without Curry the first four games. Go down 3-1. Are they competitive? Yes. But who cares. The Suns were very competitive in Golden State that one game towards the end of the season too. Knight went crazy in the third quarter and even Len had a great game. The Suns almost won that game and the Warriors had Curry and it was in Golden State. So does that make this Suns team close to accomplishing anything? No.

Let's assume for hypothetical purposes that Paul and Griffin did not get injured and the Blazers lose in the first round in five games. So 44 wins and a first round exit in five games is their season's result. Still want to follow their blueprint? Because the bottom line about their team is they won 44 games. That is more indicative of who they really are. Their second round appearance in the playoffs is predicated on the fact that they played a far better team that unfortunately suffered major injuries to its two star players.

Are the Blazers building something? Absolutely. As I mentioned previously, I think they should go after Whiteside and/or Horford. One of those guys plus another free agent could elevate them to elite status. Without that though, the Blazers will not go anywhere if all they have are role playing frontcourt players. You need way more than that. But that is what the article wants the Suns to do. Go after role playing big men to build the team as if that is the first step towards building winner. Newsflash. The Suns already have role playing big men. Chandler is the ultimate role playing defensive center. Former defensive player of the year. What the Suns are missing is all-stars. I said to use the blueprint of the Warriors in the sense the Suns should model their team after a champion, not the loser. How is that hard to understand. The author wants the Suns to follow a blueprint of a team that won 44 games and lost in the playoffs. If that is not ultimately the dumbest way to build your team, Idk what is.


The Blazers were expected to be one of the worst teams in the league after losing 4 out of 5 of their starters. Then they end up getting the 5 seed and yes, get blown out by a very experienced team featuring two of the best players in the game.

You act like they have reached their ceiling, when they are full of young guys.


How much better can that Blazers team get? Seriously? Lillard and McCollum played out of their minds against the Warriors and they still only won one game out of five and Curry missed three out of the five games. They combined to average 53 pts and 11 ast in the series. You think they can play better than that? The next step of their team is to acquire another star. Preferably a frontcourt star. Ask the Blazers if they would rather have Mason Plumlee or Hassan Whiteside. I think the answer is obvious.

I keep saying it. The Blazers won 44 games. That is who they are. They got the fifth seed because the west was terrible this year besides the top four seeds. Why would the Suns follow a blueprint of the Blazers? Not to mention, but Lillard and McCollum are light years ahead of Bledsoe and Knight and have defined roles unlike the Suns.

Regardless, my biggest issue with the article is the suggestion to keep a dual point guard lineup and add cheap versatile defenders in the frontcourt. Worst idea ever. Suns would be much better off eliminating the dual point guard lineup altogether and going forward with Bledsoe and Booker starting. That is what the Warriors do ya know. Have an actual traditional backcourt and they are the defending champions. The Blazers are merely a decent team. That is what I am trying to say. The Blazers are just whatever. Yet Suns fans are so desperate they are saying oh geez, I hope one day we can be like the Blazers. Win 44 games and get bounced in the playoffs. If the Suns keep their current team and add some defenders in the frontcourt like this article suggests, they will be right back at the 12-14 spot in the lottery like the prior years.


I don't know how much better they can get. But if you compare Lillard and Curry's 5th seasons, they are extremely similar...so he is at about the same point in his career.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HACI2

If you compare Thompson and McCollum's third seasons, they are very similar. I know it's not the best measure, but the two Blazers, at the same respective point in their careers, had higher PERs, particularly McCollum over Thompson. This is significant.

http://bkref.com/tiny/01vcW

Noah Vonleh is 20 so he is extremely young. What can he become? Meyers Leonard and Mason Plumlee are both pretty young.

So basically they are somewhat mirroring the Warriors from a few years back. Now can they find a second round gem like Draymond Green? Can Vonleh turn into something special and be that third of a big three?

Leonard and Plumlee are both decent. The answer is, who knows how good they can be? They did beat the Warriors by 32 in the regular season when GS was at full strength and rolling. http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201602190POR.html

They do kind of have the type of blueprint needed to hang around, but they are young. Two years ago GS lost in the first round. Three years ago they won 47, got a 6 seed and upset the Nuggets in the first round.

Now I don't expect them to become worldbeaters, but they have surprised me the last few years every year based on what I expected.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1426 » by bwgood77 » Mon May 16, 2016 1:59 am

letsgosuns wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:The Blazers backcourt works because Dame is a G who can play SG in a pinch because he just as lethal off the ball spotting up. Same with McCollum who has the herky jerky hesitations moves, handle and playmaking ability to run the second unit, so they aren't screwed when either goes to the bench.


That is another reason why I take issue with the article. Does anyone out there think Bledsoe/Knight is anything compared to Lillard/McCollum? I sure do not. Like I was saying, the only guard on the Suns I think that has all star potential is Booker. I do not think Bledsoe or Knight will ever do it. Not in the West at least. Bledsoe does not show up to half the games he plays and Knight is a moron. His basketball IQ is non-existant. So following the blueprint of the Blazers does not work on its face because the Blazers talent in the backcourt far outweighs the Suns.

So if the Suns try to do what the Blazers do, all they will be is a worse version of the Blazers. However, even if they could match the Blazers, it still is not good enough to win a championship. The Blazers are nowhere near a championship contender. They need so much more. So my entire point is why would you want to copy the model of a team that is not a championship contender. Furthermore, I do not think the Suns should be copying any team in the first place. The Suns need to acquire the best talent they can get at any position. If they want to be guard dominated, fine. But there is no way they can keep Bledsoe and Knight and expect to be any better than last year. They sucked terribly when they were full strength. Their best hope is that they can get a great prospect in the draft, trade Knight for the best package possible, and go from there.


I don't think anyone here is thinking "I hope we can be as good as the Blazers." This article seems to be giving you a coronary and it was probably written by some joe schmo. Can't believe it's worked you up this much.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1427 » by Damkac » Wed May 18, 2016 10:24 am

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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1428 » by letsgosuns » Wed May 18, 2016 7:13 pm



What a joke. I would not swap picks with the Kings for anything on their team besides Cousins. And I have zero interest in Rudy Gay even if he was an unrestricted free agent the Suns could sign.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1429 » by Qwigglez » Wed May 18, 2016 8:21 pm

I would trade Knight for Gay.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1430 » by lilfishi22 » Wed May 18, 2016 11:35 pm

I'd certainly consider Knight for Gay. I don't know about swapping of the picks though
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You guys should trade for one of Philly's bigs 

Post#1431 » by PaulGaston » Thu May 19, 2016 12:45 am

I'm a Celtic fan. A lot of Celtic fans want to trade the #3 pick for Jahlil Okafor. I'm not totally sure why Philly would do that. Okafor, overstated baggage and all, clearly has NBA game. He's a 20 year old who put up per-36 numbers of 21 points, 8.5 rebounds, 1.5 blocks last season with almost no help whatsoever. He needs to work on his defense, but he clearly can score and logically he has a lot of developing left to do. So why would they trade him for an unknown prospect at #3 who might completely bust?

Seems to me, what Philly actually needs is an established guard they can count on to come in and contribute immediately. They already have Okafor (C), Noel (C), a potentially finally healthy Embiid (C), Dario Saric finally coming over (PF) as well as the #1 pick that many expect to be Ben Simmons (PF). That team needs guards.

You guys, on the other hand, have two point guards in Bledsoe and Knight, an intriguing young SG in Devin Booker, and the 4th pick in a draft where picks in that range mostly seem to be guard talent.

Philly has plenty of cap space to absorb extra salary. In my opinion, Bledsoe for Okafor would make sense for both of your teams. Or if you prefer, offer up Knight. If you'd rather focus on defense, go hard after Nerlens Noel. But it seems to me Philly needs a decent guard and you guys need a big man who stands a legitimate chance of becoming a star.
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Re: You guys should trade for one of Philly's bigs 

Post#1432 » by Saberestar » Thu May 19, 2016 12:50 am

I would trade Knight for Okafor in a heartbeat. No way the Sixers do that.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1433 » by letsgosuns » Thu May 19, 2016 1:17 am

Gambo said on the radio today he heard if the Warriors do not get Durant or Horford in free agency, they are going to max out Barnes. Fine with me. The thought of the Suns maxing out Harrison Barnes is insane. That guy is like a fourth or fifth option on a good team. Not to mention but the Suns already have Warren on a rookie contract. No point in the Suns maxing out a player when they already have a player on the roster who might end up better than the free agent anyway.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1434 » by lilfishi22 » Thu May 19, 2016 1:26 am

letsgosuns wrote:Gambo said on the radio today he heard if the Warriors do not get Durant or Horford in free agency, they are going to max out Barnes. Fine with me. The thought of the Suns maxing out Harrison Barnes is insane. That guy is like a fourth or fifth option on a good team. Not to mention but the Suns already have Warren on a rookie contract. No point in the Suns maxing out a player when they already have a player on the roster who might end up better than the free agent anyway.

Agreed. He's a fine NBA player but he's not a star.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1435 » by RaisingArizona » Thu May 19, 2016 1:35 am

I wouldn't mind overpaying for Barnes if we have to. At least he's young enough to fit in with our core.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1436 » by lilfishi22 » Thu May 19, 2016 1:39 am

ginobiliflops wrote:I wouldn't mind overpaying for Barnes if we have to. At least he's young enough to fit in with our core.

Really? What do you project him to be as a player in 2-3 years?
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1437 » by RaisingArizona » Thu May 19, 2016 1:43 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
ginobiliflops wrote:I wouldn't mind overpaying for Barnes if we have to. At least he's young enough to fit in with our core.

Really? What do you project him to be as a player in 2-3 years?

Fringe all star. I think it's hard to flourish since he's the 4th or 5th option on his current stacked team.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1438 » by RaisingArizona » Thu May 19, 2016 1:50 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
ginobiliflops wrote:I wouldn't mind overpaying for Barnes if we have to. At least he's young enough to fit in with our core.

Really? What do you project him to be as a player in 2-3 years?

What do you think?
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Re: You guys should trade for one of Philly's bigs 

Post#1439 » by RaisingArizona » Thu May 19, 2016 2:04 am

We want to--will probably explore it this summer.
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Re: The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason 

Post#1440 » by lilfishi22 » Thu May 19, 2016 2:05 am

ginobiliflops wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
ginobiliflops wrote:I wouldn't mind overpaying for Barnes if we have to. At least he's young enough to fit in with our core.

Really? What do you project him to be as a player in 2-3 years?

What do you think?

I seem him as a 16/7 with a couple of assist and a decent 3 ball kinda guy. The guy is young but looking at his skills, nothing tells me his game is conducive to being a fringe all-star. I consider a fringe all-star as a player who puts up all-star stats but the position is usually too stacked or the player isn't popular enough to make all-star. At best, he's a Luol Deng type player. I wouldn't overpay for him and I certainly wouldn't max him out either.

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