Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

Mulhollanddrive · Post #1421 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:11 am

What do we even do with late firsts.

If the goal is to trade up in the draft, we can effectively do that by our results.

Walt_Uoob · Post #1422 » by **Walt_Uoob** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:19 am

Here's an idea based on the remaining buyers and sellers out there:

Suns out: Bledsoe
Suns in: Mirotic, MIN 2017 1st (currently #6 but likely to get worse in this scenario, but no protection), CHI 2019 1st (no protection)
Why: Instead of waiting for the draft, we deal Bledsoe now for a good pick in this deep draft, a future Bulls pick that could end up anywhere from 1-30, and the opportunity to match Brooklyn's inevitable ridiculous offer to Mirotic as an RFA. Gives us 2 1sts each in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2021 (assuming MIA pick conveys in 2018). And of course we tank away for the rest of this year. And also we give Bledsoe a better chance at contending within the next few years than he would have here.

Sixers out: Okafor
Sixers in: Rubio
Why: This should be pretty fair value so I don't think extra picks need to be involved. Gives them a pass-first PG who plays D, isn't too old, and will make life easier on all their young guys.

Wolves in: Bledsoe
Wolves out: Rubio, 2017 1st
Why: They're rumored to want Rose or another vet PG who would be an upgrade over Rubio and supposedly don't want to just hand Dunn the role. Bledsoe is closer to prime Rose than Rose is now, plays good D, and has been a common comparison for Dunn, so could be a good teacher for him. For a win-now guy like Thibodeau, the upgrade is worth the draft pick.

Bulls in: Okafor
Bulls out: Mirotic, 2019 1st
Why: Bulls are said to have been trying to sell Philly on something like this already. Okafor is on his rookie deal for a few more years, so that eases their finances.

Post #1423 » by **rsavaj** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:19 am

kennydorglas wrote:
DRK wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:If Jahlil ends up here, i'm done.

Why? Shed Knights contract, and add a young piece. Whats not to like

Shedding Knight's contract is good, but there's a lot of young pieces who can actually play around the NBA.

At this point Knight is a negative-value piece, so I'm not sure which of the young pieces you're referring to he could actually net in a trade.

harshey1388 · Post #1424 » by **harshey1388** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:22 am

Curiosity question - when was the last time we saw a 3-4 team trade? Even with mediocre players?

I ask because we are all arm chair GM's here but I see no value in thinking about deals with 3-4 teams and multiple picks, players being exchanged.

Walt_Uoob · Post #1425 » by **Walt_Uoob** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:26 am

Or a variation on the above would be to cut out the Wolves and try to get a Sixers pick here. Bledsoe to Sixers, Okafor to Bulls, Mirotic (or whoever) + future Bulls 1st + Sixers 2017 1st to Suns. Something like that.

TeamTragic · Post #1426 » by **TeamTragic** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:35 am

Bulls going hard after Okafor. Any chance they get him?

AtheJ415 · Post #1427 » by **AtheJ415** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:39 am

GoranTragic wrote:Bulls going hard after Okafor. Any chance they get him?

I find it hard to believe the Bulls would want Mirotic. He has a reputation as a shooter but his shot chart is ugly. He doesn't do anything else, and his reputation is somehow so high that he will probably get grossly overpaid this offseason. I honestly think if the Bulls are trying to sell Mirotic (and they don't honestly have much else aside from their pick this year b/c Butler isn't going to be dealt for someone like Okafor), then I think Knight might be more attractive to them. Mirotic is not that great. He never has been.

carey · Post #1428 » by **carey** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:39 am

harshey1388 wrote:Curiosity question - when was the last time we saw a 3-4 team trade? Even with mediocre players?

I don't even remember the last time I saw a 4 team trade. 3 team trades are quite common but with so many teams having cap space there's hardly a need to get a 3rd team involved right now. We'll see by 3 p.m. EST tomorrow.

carey · Post #1429 » by **carey** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:41 am

AtheJ415 wrote:I find it hard to believe the Bulls would want Mirotic. He has a reputation as a shooter but his shot chart is ugly. He doesn't do anything else, and his reputation is somehow so high that he will probably get grossly overpaid this offseason. I honestly think if the Bulls are trying to sell Mirotic (and they don't honestly have much else aside from their pick this year b/c Butler isn't going to be dealt for someone like Okafor), then I think Knight might be more attractive to them. Mirotic is not that great. He never has been.

He's the PF version of Knight for the most part. With Simmons and Saric around they definitely don't need Mirotic though.

GeraldsGreenery · Post #1430 » by **GeraldsGreenery** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:42 am

GoranTragic wrote:Bulls going hard after Okafor. Any chance they get him?

better chance than us getting him for BK

carey · Post #1431 » by **carey** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:46 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Just because something is a bargain, doesn't necessarily mean it's worth buying. Personally, I'm off the Okafor train now. I like the bigs we have (even Len) and I'm not sure I want a problem big with pretty good offense but doesn't play D. Also a fairly subpar rebounder and FT shooter. He's basically a big with an old school game but without the D.

It would be neat if we stopped talking about 21-year-old kids as if they are finished products.

Post #1432 » by **Qwigglez** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:55 am

GoranTragic wrote:Bulls going hard after Okafor. Any chance they get him?

I mentioned what I believed to have held up the Okafor to Bulls...
The thread-

Spoiler:

What I said-

Spoiler:

So with Kings in full-on rebuild mode, the Bull don't have any picks to send to Sixers besides their own. They gave up their 2017 2nd round pick to Cleveland and their 2018 pick to Lakers. So only way Sixers do this is if they like McDermott or Mirotic enough to do a straight swap. And I doubt they do. So I find it unlikely a deal gets done, unless the Bulls are willing to give up their own 1st round draft pick. Or if there is a three team trade, but I've already beat that horse to the ground.

Post #1433 » by **batsmasher** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:57 am

carey wrote:
harshey1388 wrote:Curiosity question - when was the last time we saw a 3-4 team trade? Even with mediocre players?

I don't even remember the last time I saw a 4 team trade. 3 team trades are quite common but with so many teams having cap space there's hardly a need to get a 3rd team involved right now. We'll see by 3 p.m. EST tomorrow.

June 22: Teague to Pacers, Hill to Jazz in 3-team deal

Indiana Pacers get:
Jeff Teague, PG

Utah Jazz get:
George Hill, PG

Atlanta Hawks get:
Rights to Taurean Prince (No. 12, 2016)

But the Bynum-Vooch-Iggy is the biggest I can think of. That was a 4 teamer.

Christine-In-AZ · Post #1434 » by **Christine-In-AZ** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:01 am

harshey1388 wrote:Curiosity question - when was the last time we saw a 3-4 team trade? Even with mediocre players?

I ask because we are all arm chair GM's here but I see no value in thinking about deals with 3-4 teams and multiple picks, players being exchanged.

Three teamers happen often. I know there have been four team trades, but not going to dig them up. Below are some recent 3 team trades...

Spoiler:

jredsaz · Post #1435 » by **jredsaz** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:10 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
And what is the "nother trade" that occurs? I'm assuming you mean Butler, who wouldn't bring us anywhere close to beating GS. And then who, with these supposed 2 maxed out new guys, are we signing in FA? Because then we are paying Cousins a brand new super max and Butler is maxed, with Bledsoe becoming an FA in a couple years. We're looking at guys like PJ Tucker to fill out the roster, not the KD's of the world. We weren't blessed with Steph Curry at $11 mil.

Butler and Cousins are on amazing contracts. The Boogie extention doesn't kick in until summer of 2018 and the cap is rising to $102 million. There is space.

A Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, and Boogie locked in for the next two and a half years makes competing a reality and I believe it gets us closer to the Warriors than you do.

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Cousins is eligible for an extension this year. And we still wouldn't have the space to sign someone of value. This year we have $13 mil in space before Cousins and Butler in these hypos, who all make more than that (Butler at $17.5 this year and increasing for 3 years), Cousins at $17 and increasing. Who do you honestly expect to sign and at what amount? Let's see these numbers add up. Depending on what goes out you are already above $102 in that scenario.

2018 roster with Butler, Boogie, Chandler, Dudley, Chriss, Booker, Ulis, Jones, and Barbosa guarantee comes in around $83 million. With the 2017 first at +/-$4 million sitting at around $15 million in space give or take.

But none of this really matters because we didn't get Boogie.

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DaleyBlind · Post #1436 » by **DaleyBlind** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:27 am

ChrisInAZ wrote:So are we ok with Knight for Okafor if the Suns need to send let's say? A lottery protected 2018 or '19 1st to Philly?

A pick along those lines seems a minimum requirement to me.

I'm mixed if there's anything to the talk. He can't play defense, so he would fit right in.

Okafor is trash, wouldn't attach any first round picks of any kind.

sunskerr · Post #1437 » by **sunskerr** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:29 am

Based on this season's play I think teams would rather try to steal Hayward in free agency than blow their assets George. That or Jimmy Butler. Both those guys have been better than Paul George. Even going back to last season, George has been shooting in the low 40% range. He's not particularly a great scorer and we already have guys shooting in that range already (Booker, Knight).

Us fans would be a little more eager to acquire one of those wings had we landed Boogie but we didn't. No idea what the front office thinks.

I was overreacting in the PJ Tucker thread for sure. Still in favour of the tank but we just need to keep making smart deals. McD has shown he can make some 2k transactions when he's not treating players like robots. Losing Thomas and the Lakers pick for Knight to me is really the only blemish on his resume so far (a pretty bad one though). Stealing Chriss from the Kings after the Morris fiasco was very good maneuvering and also getting stuff for Dragic are among his best moves.

AtheJ415 · Post #1438 » by **AtheJ415** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:36 am

jredsaz wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
jredsaz wrote:Butler and Cousins are on amazing contracts. The Boogie extention doesn't kick in until summer of 2018 and the cap is rising to $102 million. There is space.

A Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, and Boogie locked in for the next two and a half years makes competing a reality and I believe it gets us closer to the Warriors than you do.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Cousins is eligible for an extension this year. And we still wouldn't have the space to sign someone of value. This year we have $13 mil in space before Cousins and Butler in these hypos, who all make more than that (Butler at $17.5 this year and increasing for 3 years), Cousins at $17 and increasing. Who do you honestly expect to sign and at what amount? Let's see these numbers add up. Depending on what goes out you are already above $102 in that scenario.

2018 roster with Butler, Boogie, Chandler, Dudley, Chriss, Booker, Ulis, Jones, and Barbosa guarantee comes in around $83 million. With the 2017 first at +/-$4 million sitting at around $15 million in space give or take.

But none of this really matters because we didn't get Boogie.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

You just left out Bledsoe, who eats up all of that $15 million. Unless you think we're getting Boogie and he's staying without Bledsoe. And if we're not keeping Bledsoe, well, $15 mil in cap space gets you an Alex Len caliber player. Hell, George Hill is likely to get $20 mil starting according to many.

Also, while it's fun to think about, a group of Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, Cousins, Chandler does not even come close to beating GS imo.

TeamTragic · Post #1439 » by **TeamTragic** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:39 am

Magic just asked Bird about George

Post #1440 » by **Qwigglez** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:39 am

sunskerr wrote:Based on this season's play I think teams would rather try to steal Hayward in free agency than blow their assets George. That or Jimmy Butler. Both those guys have been better than Paul George. Even going back to last season, George has been shooting in the low 40% range. He's not particularly a great scorer and we already have guys shooting in that range already (Booker, Knight).

Us fans would be a little more eager to acquire one of those wings had we landed Boogie but we didn't. No idea what the front office thinks.

I was overreacting in the PJ Tucker thread for sure. Still in favour of the tank but we just need to keep making smart deals. McD has shown he can make some 2k transactions when he's not treating players like robots. Losing Thomas and the Lakers pick for Knight to me is really the only blemish on his resume so far (a pretty bad one though). Stealing Chriss from the Kings after the Morris fiasco was very good maneuvering and also getting stuff for Dragic are among his best moves.

One of the reasons I like Butler more is it would give us the option of signing another top tier free agent. If we went after Hayward it would limit us to what we can do further. I would prefer Hayward over George though since he would cost us no assets.