2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

[thamadkant]

If Booker is to be traded maybe due to signs of him not willing to play less hero ball and more of a second option to Ayton long term... Then let it be for Simmons and let it be ASAP.


I would then build around Simmons and Ayton.

Put Bridges, Oubre and a someone like Kennard or McCollum as combo guard.

Then have Simmons play PF defensively and ask him to share the inside scoring with Ayton... While the wings focus on perimeter shots... Basically like Rockets... That wing players are scolded if they pass out a 3pt shot or try to dribble into the paint area which kills the flow of their system. Well that can be similar with Simmons and Ayton... Wing players must shoot outside shots first look they get... And not clog the paint... Only Ayton and Simmons allowed to shoot planned paint shots.

[alamin330]

You may disagree with my narrative, but it's not "illogical." I believe you're using illogical as a synonym for unreasonable or simply incorrect. We perceive this situation differently, for sure.

When you say "Booker isn't the problem. Youth is and lack of shooters. There's really no blame there anywhere." I can't say I understand how you're using the word there, actually. It seems like you're saying youth and lack of shooters are a "problem", but they (like Booker) are not to "blame."

You're right that I didn't mention Booker's age. He's still real young, I admit, and that gives me hope. But your narrative explains (not blames, I guess) our losses by pointing to everyone but Booker. And I disagree.

I’m using the right word. You’re being illogical. We are talking about DEVIN BOOKER and not the other guys. In response to you wanting to trade Booker because he is the one constant on the suns during our losing era, I simply replied that Booker isn’t the problem. If he had pure shooters and experienced players on the team we would be just like what Mitchell is doing with the Jazz if not better. Your narrative is illogical and unreasonable. You’re not using any real logic to suggest that if we trade booker we’ll be better off. But that all depends on the return. If it’s a swap for Beal do the suns really get better. Booker is too young and inexperienced to bring back a superstar type player who could potentially add more wins to this current roster. Your post is unreasonable because your putting all the blame of the suns woes on a 23 year old sg who’s most experienced veteran is Rubio who can’t shoot or Baynes who has never been a starting caliber player.

Nothing in your post is evidence to me that you understand the difference between logic and reason.

The board knows where I stand. I hope we do well with Booker, but I'm open to moving him, as I've been for a while, in a "Nance"-like deal. It's extremely unlikely before the end of next season. By then, hopefully my worries will be assuaged.

Nothing in your post is evidence to me that you understand the difference between logic and reason.
Logical would be pointing out that every year booker has played the suns have gotten better players around him but we lose more or the same.
Reason would mean other players of Bookers caliber and age who have been surrounded by g league players and really young players would be able to carry them to the playoffs in the west

None of these are true. Suns are winning more with the improved roster around Booker and he continues to improve individually. Unfortunately there’s been way too many injuries for us to overcome to make the playoffs. You can put james harden or as evidenced last year Lebron james with g league talent or inexperienced players and they won’t make the playoffs. This isn’t a Booker thing. It’s a team chemistry thing.
I Get it. You’re sad. You need someone to blame because your team keeps losing. So you pick the best player who’s been here the longest. You want a quick fix to YOUR problems. Your problems being disappointment and impatience. The suns aren’t here for you alone.
Have some respect for the hard work this kid has put in since college. Give the team at least a full healthy season before you start thinking Booker is incapable. To me he’s more than capable. If Ayton doesn’t get suspended this season looks a lot different. Stop being irrational and illogical. You sound like a whiny brat

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I Get it. You’re sad. You need someone to blame because your team keeps losing. So you pick the best player who’s been here the longest. You want a quick fix to YOUR problems. Your problems being disappointment and impatience. The suns aren’t here for you alone.
Have some respect for the hard work this kid has put in since college. Give the team at least a full healthy season before you start thinking Booker is incapable. To me he’s more than capable. If Ayton doesn’t get suspended this season looks a lot different. Stop being irrational and illogical. You sound like a whiny brat

Moving along...

[alamin330]

I Get it. You’re sad. You need someone to blame because your team keeps losing. So you pick the best player who’s been here the longest. You want a quick fix to YOUR problems. Your problems being disappointment and impatience. The suns aren’t here for you alone.
Have some respect for the hard work this kid has put in since college. Give the team at least a full healthy season before you start thinking Booker is incapable. To me he’s more than capable. If Ayton doesn’t get suspended this season looks a lot different. Stop being irrational and illogical. You sound like a whiny brat

Moving along...

Facts. They quiet illogical people

[Wilber85]

I am on board for the following

Simmons swap for Booker
Oubre swap for Aaron Gordon or Markannen

Sign Bogdan Bogdonovic
Draft BAP

Simmons
Bogdonovic
Bridges
Gordon or Markannen
Ayton.

Bench

Rubio (try to find a trade) - If not put him as 6th man
McCrae
Johnson
Saric / Kaminsky
Baynes / Diallo

[Ghost of Kleine]

I love what Booker tries to be for us, However, IF we could get Simmons and maybe another asset ( pick) for Booker, Then I'd absolutely do that trade 9/10 times. I just see Simmons as a more unique talent, And I feel that he'd be a much more dynamic pick/roll duo with Ayton than Booker would. And IF he can just improve his shooting, They'd be unstoppable. Plus Simmons defense would really help things for us.

I'd love to get Simmons, however it appears Simmons and Embiid may not be a good fit. We might run into the same thing here with Ayton and Simmons.

If they'd trade Simmons for Booker that's interesting, and Simmons is an absolute stud at what he does, but his lack of shooting combined with our lack of outside shooting would hurt tremendously. As mentioned, we would have to trade Rubio, and I don't see a market. The Nets would not want him..Kyrie will be their primary ball handler and KD the secondary.

You might be right obviously man on the sparse market for Rubio. But maybe I look to trade him to some team that is somewhat desperate for a playmaking point guard, And then look to take back a contract of equal value for a scorer/ shooter from that team if possible??

New York-
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7289750

We take back Gibson ( Backup defensive 4)and get back Ellington, and Bullock. Both who are shooters. Or IF that doesn't sound palatable enough for New York, Then we do this......
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7289751
*** We also get their pick ( # 25)??? That we now use on Saddiq Beyfor added perimeter shooting.
So with our lottery pick, We take either Toppin or ***Pokusevski ( solid potential). And then with the Minnesotas' picks ( #3 and 16 )We take Haliburton or Hayes at 3. And Isaac Okoro ( Oubres' replacement at 16. We've essentially redone the rebuild better, Building around Ayton and Simmons. But also with a ton of perimeter firepower too.

- Simmons/ Haliburton/ Jerome.
- Bullock/ Ellington/ Saddiq Bey.
- Bridges / Isaac Okoro/ Cam Johnson.
- Johnson/Saric/Toppin or Pokusevski.
- Ayton/ Baynes/ Gibson.

Then make whatever veteran adjustments are needed in free agency? But overall, We need to redo the roster a bit and absolutely add much more talent, potential, athleticism, perimeter defense and shooting. This should reasonably allow us to reload well in that manner, All things considered. Lastly, If any one of Haliburton, Toppin or Pokusevski, and Okoro blow up into a star, then we're set. But even if they only give really solid production, Then we still have an amazing stable of tantalizing assets for a bigger trade!

Perhaps for an all star in return..........Brandon Ingram or Beal, Aaron Gordon, Markannen or Whoever???

[Desertfox]

Booker for Jrue and NAW, Oubre for Markannen, Rubio for Dinwiddie (somehow...). Draft Toppin. Add some veteran backups.

Dinwiddie/FA/Jerome
Holiday/FA/NAW
Bridges/Johnson
Markannen/Toppin
Ayton/FA

[grumpysaddle]

Simmons and Embiid are better when they aren't playing together, but you want to try and run Simmons and a weaker (at this point) Embiid together? The Suns would have to trade everyone away from insane shooters to even make that sniff winning.

[GoodBehavior]

Simmons and Embiid are better when they aren't playing together, but you want to try and run Simmons and a weaker (at this point) Embiid together? The Suns would have to trade everyone away from insane shooters to even make that sniff winning.

DA and Embiid are different animals. Embiid is an iso-player that really slows down the offense flow. While he's gifted, his advanced metrics on offense is poor / negative because of his style of play.

DA is more of a PNR center. It's an interesting experiment to see how Ben does with a true PNR option at center.

I don't think Philly would want Booker. Tobias does a good job complementing Embiid, and Booker and Embiid is a weird combination, unless he primarily plays off-guard, which isnt what he wants.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

[timetoshinebaby]

Philly will move Embiid over Simmons.

I wouldn't be shocked, with Leon Rose going to New York and things blowing up in Philly, if Embiid to New York is a real possibility.

Then Philly build around Simmons whether its their call or not.

[thamadkant]

Simmons and Embiid are better when they aren't playing together, but you want to try and run Simmons and a weaker (at this point) Embiid together? The Suns would have to trade everyone away from insane shooters to even make that sniff winning.

Embiid does not play like Ayton... If you watch 76ers a lot.. Embiid likes to dribble front face and establish himself... Or draw the foul while every one watches.

This is bad for Simmons who needs players moving or spotting up...

Basically Embiid plays better when he has the ball in his hands trying to create... While Ayton has proven he can score 25+ finishing passes or lobs and minimal time trying to create for himself.

Simmons and Ayton would be like Rubio and Ayton... Except Simmons can play PF defensively allowing rebounding help.... Allows a 3pt shooting PG or combo guard in the lineup also.


So your two weakest 3pt shooters are 6'10 and above who dominate the paint.... The two man game between Ayton AND Simmons would be basically unstoppable.

[grumpysaddle]

Simmons and Embiid are better when they aren't playing together, but you want to try and run Simmons and a weaker (at this point) Embiid together? The Suns would have to trade everyone away from insane shooters to even make that sniff winning.

Embiid does not play like Ayton... If you watch 76ers a lot.. Embiid likes to dribble front face and establish himself... Or draw the foul while every one watches.

This is bad for Simmons who needs players moving or spotting up...

Basically Embiid plays better when he has the ball in his hands trying to create... While Ayton has proven he can score 25+ finishing passes or lobs and minimal time trying to create for himself.

Simmons and Ayton would be like Rubio and Ayton... Except Simmons can play PF defensively allowing rebounding help.... Allows a 3pt shooting PG or combo guard in the lineup also.


So your two weakest 3pt shooters are 6'10 and above who dominate the paint.... The two man game between Ayton AND Simmons would be basically unstoppable.

I do have to admit, I don't watch a ton of Embiid. I actually can't stand his shenanigans.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Simmons and Embiid are better when they aren't playing together, but you want to try and run Simmons and a weaker (at this point) Embiid together? The Suns would have to trade everyone away from insane shooters to even make that sniff winning.

Embiid does not play like Ayton... If you watch 76ers a lot.. Embiid likes to dribble front face and establish himself... Or draw the foul while every one watches.

This is bad for Simmons who needs players moving or spotting up...

Basically Embiid plays better when he has the ball in his hands trying to create... While Ayton has proven he can score 25+ finishing passes or lobs and minimal time trying to create for himself.

Simmons and Ayton would be like Rubio and Ayton... Except Simmons can play PF defensively allowing rebounding help.... Allows a 3pt shooting PG or combo guard in the lineup also.


So your two weakest 3pt shooters are 6'10 and above who dominate the paint.... The two man game between Ayton AND Simmons would be basically unstoppable.

I agree and do think Ayton would be a slightly better partner for Simmons.

But the very best use of Simmons would be playing 5 out like the bucks with Giannis where you have everyone outside and basically let Simmons drive at the rim giving the opponent the choice of either letting Simmons beat his man or double and leave a 3pt threat.

Houston is basically doing this right now too with Russ and Harden. What makes the bucks scheme so tough (other than Giannis being a mutant) is they can run it and still have Lopez as a rim protector.

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[wheezy]

I still think a three team deal with PHX, POR, & PHI would make sense for all teams.
Ayton to Por
McCollumn to Phi
Simmons to Phx

[wheezy]

I did hear or read about the rumors about Suns and 76ers trade of Simmons/Horford for Rubio/Oubre/4 first picks.... But not the Booker for Simmons rumors.

Where was this?

[bwgood77]

I still think a three team deal with PHX, POR, & PHI would make sense for all teams.
Ayton to Por
McCollumn to Phi
Simmons to Phx

Ayton to Portland? Or did you mean Booker?

[Kerrsed]

The problem with Simmons and Embiid is that Simmons has no 3 point shot and really no range. Looking at the numbers, 64% of his shots come within 3 feet of the rim. 30% come from within 3-10 feet. So pretty much 94% of his attempts comes from the same space that Embiid is occupying, along with his 7 foot defender. So between him and Embiid you have 2 non-3 point shooters. It makes things extremely difficult.

Simmons would work best with a stretch 5. It would open the lane for him and for the most part pull the C's large defender away from the rim.

I just think we would somewhat be replicating what is going on in Philly, but in a much much tougher conference, one that predicated to a more speedy uptempo game. We already are seeing what an issue it is with Rubio and him not having much range.....and thats with Rubio actually having MORE range than Simmons.

Its been talked about for years now, Simmons needs lights out shooters surrounding him. Thats where you run into a major issue, lights out shooters tend to be severely lacking in the defensive department. If they arnt and are solid on both ends of the floor, then they are super expensive star players that you cant get your hands on. But even the semi-star shooters like Booker/Hield/Beal/McCollum all lack defense. Even your crop of elite bench shooters lack defensive skills. Redick/Korver/Gordon/LouWill/Ellington .......not a defensive bone in any of those bodies!

That brings us to the D'antoni train of thought. Get the best shooters you can and dont worry about wasting any energy playing any defense. As long as you have the best shooters in the league, all you have to do is worry about outscoring your opponent. But we have seen how that works (Or doesnt work) up close. Worked here in the regular season, but defense always won in the end when it came to the playoffs. In Houston he has had some of the best offensive players in the league (Specially this year), and they are sitting in 4th place after having disappointing seasons the past 4+ years. We will see if once again Dantonis all out offensive attack will flounder in the post season or not.

But back to my original point, Simmons is good, but i think it will be real hard to build a winning team around him, specially in the West. We have major issues with our team as its currently built, and honestly i would rather take a package of players and picks like i previously mentioned with The Wolves over trading Booker for Simmons straight up.

[wheezy]

I still think a three team deal with PHX, POR, & PHI would make sense for all teams.
Ayton to Por
McCollum to Phi
Simmons to Phx

Ayton to Portland? Or did you mean Booker?

No I meant this (which is my personal preferred trade, but to each their own). Same thing I posted back in Dec or whenever that was.

[bwgood77]

I still think a three team deal with PHX, POR, & PHI would make sense for all teams.
Ayton to Por
McCollum to Phi
Simmons to Phx

Ayton to Portland? Or did you mean Booker?

No I meant this (which is my personal preferred trade, but to each their own). Same thing I posted back in Dec or whenever that was.

I thought you might, but considering Portland was on fire with Nurkic who will be back next year, along with McCollum being dealt in the deal, I wasn't sure. What would you want to do at C in your proposal?