2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[Slim Charless]

Last 10 minutes or so of the most recent Lowe Post podcast. Zach and Bobby Marks go over the Suns in terms of trades. Lowe said he thinks they "will and should" trade Dario, Smith, and a 2024 first (which Bobby confirmed they can trade) for someone. He brought up that the home run for us is Jeremi Grant, but doesn't think that package gets us there. The Grant idea was just his speculation, not any rumors he has heard.

Yeah, as much as Monty likes Dario, I don't see a place for him in our rotation, and I don't think we can afford *not* to go all-in this season. I'm not a huge fan of trading future FRPs, but times like these are the exception. It's not like we're any good at drafting anyway.

The thing is, I just don't see us breaking apart our starting 5. Meaning we're looking at a potential super-6th - a starting-quality bench player who gets 30 a night. Preferably a well-rounded scorer. Part of what makes me eager to add a scorer to our bench unit is Cam Payne's struggles with turnovers this season. His 3 is still dropping, but he's getting locked up in the paint on his drives. Between him and McGee, they're generating a lot of turnovers. A bona fide scorer would go a long way not only to shoring up that unit, but in allowing us to swap Bridges or Crowder for someone who can generate offense when needed. Paul and Booker can't do it all.

All. In.

Caris LeVert? He can put the ball in the hoop and he probably wouldn't cost too much. I'd personally rather Smart since the little things he does are invaluable and win ball games. He'd be our Draymond essentially.

Both of those guys are very available.

[Ghost of Kleine]

BSoTS or Evan Sidery Tyreke Evans article incoming soon.

If the suns add Evan's, Then we have the additional ballhandler/ iso scorer situation handled! else we could look at trading for Naji Marshall ( Joe Johnson's little brother).......lol. actually he's more like a younger bargain version of Evans anyways. His contract for 2022 is non guaranteed ( around 1.3 million). But he's an athletic and talented two way player. And a skilled ballhandler and iso scorer.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Last 10 minutes or so of the most recent Lowe Post podcast. Zach and Bobby Marks go over the Suns in terms of trades. Lowe said he thinks they "will and should" trade Dario, Smith, and a 2024 first (which Bobby confirmed they can trade) for someone. He brought up that the home run for us is Jeremi Grant, but doesn't think that package gets us there. The Grant idea was just his speculation, not any rumors he has heard.

Yeah, as much as Monty likes Dario, I don't see a place for him in our rotation, and I don't think we can afford *not* to go all-in this season. I'm not a huge fan of trading future FRPs, but times like these are the exception. It's not like we're any good at drafting anyway.

The thing is, I just don't see us breaking apart our starting 5. Meaning we're looking at a potential super-6th - a starting-quality bench player who gets 30 a night. Preferably a well-rounded scorer. Part of what makes me eager to add a scorer to our bench unit is Cam Payne's struggles with turnovers this season. His 3 is still dropping, but he's getting locked up in the paint on his drives. Between him and McGee, they're generating a lot of turnovers. A bona fide scorer would go a long way not only to shoring up that unit, but in allowing us to swap Bridges or Crowder for someone who can generate offense when needed. Paul and Booker can't do it all.

All. In.

Caris LeVert? He can put the ball in the hoop and he probably wouldn't cost too much. I'd personally rather Smart since the little things he does are invaluable and win ball games. He'd be our Draymond essentially.

Both of those guys are very available.

Yeah I mentioned Levert a short while back when the report first broke, Only problem that I see is his salary of:

$17.5 this season and $18.7 next season. So we might have to send out a premium player to match salaries??

Package A-
Saric/ Smith/ Shamet/ 1st.

Package B-
Saric/ Smith/ Nader/ Payton/ 1st/ 2nd?

Rumor has it that Cleveland is pretty gung ho on trading for him too. There assets would be much more appealing I'd think, Unless we were willing to part with ome of Payne, Johnson, Shamet and a first in the deal. And even then I'm not sure our deal would beat Cleveland's offer??

But I did want him as our super 6th man ala Jordan Clarkson or perhaps he moved to backup guard with Payne filling the 6th man role?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Tyus Jones would be pretty awesome for sure. What about his brother with San Antonio though as an alternative?
Maybe something like Smith/ Nader/ 2 2nds
For Tre Jones/ Eubanks/ Weiskamp??

** I'd really like us to put together a very solid package for Murray next summer, As Paul declines or possibly the summer after!! Not sure what it'd take, probably something like Shamet, Johnson, Smith ( resigned to minimum), first??

Rumor also has Fox being available soon with Haliburton and Mitchell recently drafted by the new GM. Could he have a KJ like resurgence for us with a change of scenery??

[dremill24]

Need to use the rest of our MLE on someone just to have the tradeable salary.

Harrison Barnes is the only kinda sorta maybe might be possibly available at some point guy I'm interested in. All these 9th/10th men are fine for regular season depth but arent changing the title prospects. Even Barnes probably doesnt but at least theres a chance.

[bwgood77]

Interesting the Pacers announce they are willing to trade big names and suddenly reel off 3 straight convincing wins against good teams. And pretty much all the starters played well, at least in the last two games I checked.

[bwgood77]

Need to use the rest of our MLE on someone just to have the tradeable salary.

Harrison Barnes is the only kinda sorta maybe might be possibly available at some point guy I'm interested in. All these 9th/10th men are fine for regular season depth but arent changing the title prospects. Even Barnes probably doesnt but at least theres a chance.

I figured we were saving it (besides potential actual cost savings) to be able to spend more on a buyout guy than other teams over the cap. But the problem with what you say there is that buyouts don't typically happen until after the trade deadline.

What does Barnes have to do with the MLE? Who would you trade for him? He makes over $20 million this year and almost that much next year. I don't see them adding that much salary next year. The only way to do it without really adding salary next year is for Saric and Crowder

[lilfishi22]

What I don't understand is Indy extending Brogdan, making that trade for Levert last season and bringing in a high level championship caliber HC in Carlise and then decide they want to tank/not compete after 27games

[dremill24]

Need to use the rest of our MLE on someone just to have the tradeable salary.

Harrison Barnes is the only kinda sorta maybe might be possibly available at some point guy I'm interested in. All these 9th/10th men are fine for regular season depth but arent changing the title prospects. Even Barnes probably doesnt but at least theres a chance.

I figured we were saving it (besides potential actual cost savings) to be able to spend more on a buyout guy than other teams over the cap. But the problem with what you say there is that buyouts don't typically happen until after the trade deadline.

What does Barnes have to do with the MLE? Who would you trade for him? He makes over $20 million this year and almost that much next year. I don't see them adding that much salary next year. The only way to do it without really adding salary next year is for Saric and Crowder

Just saying spend the rest of MLE on any warm body to use in a trade. I think Saric + Smith + rest of MLE gets pretty close to enough for Barnes. And yeah it's extra salary, need to pay the piper. I'd throw two 1sts out there to see.

Hell i'd include Crowder but i know Jones wouldn't

[bwgood77]

Need to use the rest of our MLE on someone just to have the tradeable salary.

Harrison Barnes is the only kinda sorta maybe might be possibly available at some point guy I'm interested in. All these 9th/10th men are fine for regular season depth but arent changing the title prospects. Even Barnes probably doesnt but at least theres a chance.

I figured we were saving it (besides potential actual cost savings) to be able to spend more on a buyout guy than other teams over the cap. But the problem with what you say there is that buyouts don't typically happen until after the trade deadline.

What does Barnes have to do with the MLE? Who would you trade for him? He makes over $20 million this year and almost that much next year. I don't see them adding that much salary next year. The only way to do it without really adding salary next year is for Saric and Crowder

Just saying spend the rest of MLE on any warm body to use in a trade. I think Saric + Smith + rest of MLE gets pretty close to enough for Barnes. And yeah it's extra salary, need to pay the piper. I'd throw two 1sts out there to see.

Doesn't sound bad if they'd pay the extra salary + tax, but I can't see them doing that. They will be at like each extra $1x3 or something like that, so the extra $9 million or so for him would be like $27 million or something like that. Of course it all assumes on a lot of things, like what Ayton makes.

[dremill24]

I figured we were saving it (besides potential actual cost savings) to be able to spend more on a buyout guy than other teams over the cap. But the problem with what you say there is that buyouts don't typically happen until after the trade deadline.

What does Barnes have to do with the MLE? Who would you trade for him? He makes over $20 million this year and almost that much next year. I don't see them adding that much salary next year. The only way to do it without really adding salary next year is for Saric and Crowder

Just saying spend the rest of MLE on any warm body to use in a trade. I think Saric + Smith + rest of MLE gets pretty close to enough for Barnes. And yeah it's extra salary, need to pay the piper. I'd throw two 1sts out there to see.

Doesn't sound bad if they'd pay the extra salary + tax, but I can't see them doing that. They will be at like each extra $1x3 or something like that, so the extra $9 million or so for him would be like $27 million or something like that. Of course it all assumes on a lot of things, like what Ayton makes.

Yeah i don't see them spending like that either. And the complacency may prevent getting a ring. Just throwing out what I'd look into

[bwgood77]

Just saying spend the rest of MLE on any warm body to use in a trade. I think Saric + Smith + rest of MLE gets pretty close to enough for Barnes. And yeah it's extra salary, need to pay the piper. I'd throw two 1sts out there to see.

Doesn't sound bad if they'd pay the extra salary + tax, but I can't see them doing that. They will be at like each extra $1x3 or something like that, so the extra $9 million or so for him would be like $27 million or something like that. Of course it all assumes on a lot of things, like what Ayton makes.

Yeah i don't see them spending like that either. And the complacency may prevent getting a ring. Just throwing out what I'd look into

Are you really that concerned with depth? Particularly in relation to other teams? I thought about this when Richard Jefferson said he thought we were the deepest team in the league and can withstand missing a guy for a couple games.

Of course I think if any guy misses a key player for long, it really hurts. Barnes, for example, is having a great year, but are the minutes he would get instead of Cam and Crowder THAT much different? Are they a big needle mover?

My biggest fear is ball handling depth (I don't want to have to rely on Payton for 1 minute in the playoffs).

[dremill24]

Doesn't sound bad if they'd pay the extra salary + tax, but I can't see them doing that. They will be at like each extra $1x3 or something like that, so the extra $9 million or so for him would be like $27 million or something like that. Of course it all assumes on a lot of things, like what Ayton makes.

Yeah i don't see them spending like that either. And the complacency may prevent getting a ring. Just throwing out what I'd look into

My biggest concern is that our best players arent as good as other contenders' best players. But since thats not really solveable at the moment, why not get a physically imposing athlete who gets to the line

Are you really that concerned with depth? Particularly in relation to other teams? I thought about this when Richard Jefferson said he thought we were the deepest team in the league and can withstand missing a guy for a couple games.

Of course I think if any guy misses a key player for long, it really hurts. Barnes, for example, is having a great year, but are the minutes he would get instead of Cam and Crowder THAT much different? Are they a big needle mover?

My biggest fear is ball handling depth (I don't want to have to rely on Payton for 1 minute in the playoffs).

My biggest concern is that our best players arent as good as other contenders' best players. But since thats not really solveable at the moment, I'd look to get a physically imposing athlete who gets to the line a ton, both of which are severely lacking here. He could also let Cam play more 3 so we're not so small on the perimeter in bench lineups.

[bwgood77]

Yeah i don't see them spending like that either. And the complacency may prevent getting a ring. Just throwing out what I'd look into

My biggest concern is that our best players arent as good as other contenders' best players. But since thats not really solveable at the moment, why not get a physically imposing athlete who gets to the line

Are you really that concerned with depth? Particularly in relation to other teams? I thought about this when Richard Jefferson said he thought we were the deepest team in the league and can withstand missing a guy for a couple games.

Of course I think if any guy misses a key player for long, it really hurts. Barnes, for example, is having a great year, but are the minutes he would get instead of Cam and Crowder THAT much different? Are they a big needle mover?

My biggest fear is ball handling depth (I don't want to have to rely on Payton for 1 minute in the playoffs).

My biggest concern is that our best players arent as good as other contenders' best players. But since thats not really solveable at the moment, I'd look to get a physically imposing athlete who gets to the line a ton, both of which are severely lacking here. He could also let Cam play more 3 so we're not so small on the perimeter in bench lineups.

I didn't realize Barnes got to the line that much. For whatever reason he really improved his game the last couple of years. His 2pt% went up pretty significantly (especially last year) and his free throws went up both year but especially this year....both of which you probably already know since you mentioned it but it's surprising he's made that much improvement. I never thought of him as that great and hadn't really paid much attention the last couple of years. I did notice earlier in the year his #s were good but didn't see the trips to the line. I don't think of him as physically opposing but don't watch the Kings either.

[bwgood77]

Damn, I hadn't seen that Fox had 2 free throws with 2.4 seconds left down 1 and missed both. Ouch.

[dremill24]

My biggest concern is that our best players arent as good as other contenders' best players. But since thats not really solveable at the moment, why not get a physically imposing athlete who gets to the line

Are you really that concerned with depth? Particularly in relation to other teams? I thought about this when Richard Jefferson said he thought we were the deepest team in the league and can withstand missing a guy for a couple games.

Of course I think if any guy misses a key player for long, it really hurts. Barnes, for example, is having a great year, but are the minutes he would get instead of Cam and Crowder THAT much different? Are they a big needle mover?

My biggest fear is ball handling depth (I don't want to have to rely on Payton for 1 minute in the playoffs).

My biggest concern is that our best players arent as good as other contenders' best players. But since thats not really solveable at the moment, I'd look to get a physically imposing athlete who gets to the line a ton, both of which are severely lacking here. He could also let Cam play more 3 so we're not so small on the perimeter in bench lineups.

I didn't realize Barnes got to the line that much. For whatever reason he really improved his game the last couple of years. His 2pt% went up pretty significantly (especially last year) and his free throws went up both year but especially this year....both of which you probably already know since you mentioned it but it's surprising he's made that much improvement. I never thought of him as that great and hadn't really paid much attention the last couple of years. I did notice earlier in the year his #s were good but didn't see the trips to the line. I don't think of him as physically opposing but don't watch the Kings either.

Hes definitely improved. Im not saying he'd solve all our problems and I think theres about a 0.25% chance of it happening. But figured I'd join the rosterbating with something I'd look into if I were in charge. As of right now we dont even have the salary filler without including Cam or Crowder, so dont see it happening.

[Bogyo]

Doesn't sound bad if they'd pay the extra salary + tax, but I can't see them doing that. They will be at like each extra $1x3 or something like that, so the extra $9 million or so for him would be like $27 million or something like that. Of course it all assumes on a lot of things, like what Ayton makes.

Yeah i don't see them spending like that either. And the complacency may prevent getting a ring. Just throwing out what I'd look into

Are you really that concerned with depth? Particularly in relation to other teams? I thought about this when Richard Jefferson said he thought we were the deepest team in the league and can withstand missing a guy for a couple games.

Of course I think if any guy misses a key player for long, it really hurts. Barnes, for example, is having a great year, but are the minutes he would get instead of Cam and Crowder THAT much different? Are they a big needle mover?

My biggest fear is ball handling depth (I don't want to have to rely on Payton for 1 minute in the playoffs).

This kind of depth where you have 12 NBA caliber players works really well in the regular season.
In the playoffs where you play 6-8 guys (9 if you have injuries, or any other major issues) it does make THAT much difference. We'd have a championship by now if we had a better PF last year in my opinion. For example Barnes instead of Crowder, and I do not think that Barnes is all that better than Jae.

[bwgood77]

Yeah i don't see them spending like that either. And the complacency may prevent getting a ring. Just throwing out what I'd look into

Are you really that concerned with depth? Particularly in relation to other teams? I thought about this when Richard Jefferson said he thought we were the deepest team in the league and can withstand missing a guy for a couple games.

Of course I think if any guy misses a key player for long, it really hurts. Barnes, for example, is having a great year, but are the minutes he would get instead of Cam and Crowder THAT much different? Are they a big needle mover?

My biggest fear is ball handling depth (I don't want to have to rely on Payton for 1 minute in the playoffs).

This kind of depth where you have 12 NBA caliber players works really well in the regular season.
In the playoffs where you play 6-8 guys (9 if you have injuries, or any other major issues) it does make THAT much difference. We'd have a championship by now if we had a better PF last year in my opinion. For example Barnes instead of Crowder, and I do not think that Barnes is all that better than Jae.

Who knows? We ultimately got lucky with scheduling and injuries and Brooklyn adjusted. The main thing I think ended up being our lack of experience in playoff games. I think backup C cost us too.

But it simply came down to a bad game 3 and some bad execution down the stretch with key turnovers in games 4 and 5 one from each guard. The Bucks had faced playoff adversity for 2 straight years after being the best team over those 2 years.

Also, Crowder was rated as our best defender by quite a bit by 538 last year. I don't know if it's accurate and we probably would have been better on offense with Barnes but worse on defense, but he also cost twice as much. Backup C was just botched by JJ in the offseason signing Damian Jones early. Had we still had Holmes OR Baynes OR McGee we would have won...possibly even Saric.

I think our top 8 or really 9 is as good as anyone in the league. But maybe not our top 1, 2 or 3, which is what usually makes the difference in the playoffs. Not swapping out your 4th-8th or 9th best guy even though backup C is a big deal.

I think it probably comes down to 3 teams in the west...and the health of those teams. GS and Utah are blowing people out and have a pt differential much larger than ours.

Can we continue winning close games all year? In the playoffs against quality opponents?

Can we get the 1 seed and avoid facing BOTH Utah and GS and only have to take the winner on?

Will Murray be back and vault Denver to 4? Porter? Even worse, Kawhi to the Clips?

Will Memphis get fully healthy? They were missing Brooks, then Ja and others in and out.

We've had our injuries too so there is that but not sure if we could have beaten Utah or GS without Book AND Ayton.

[bwgood77]

Bingo.

He checks a lot of boxes, but with Ayton/McGee and (at times, Frank) holding down the 5 spot, we don't need him. If a 4 can't shoot threes in our system, he's out.

But I liked some of his minutes tonight, good decisions here, some nice catches and blocks, rebounds. It's rough, man, we have messed with his development because we went from young team making the playoffs with some vets to let's get a **** ring before the world ends.

But this development has been nice. I could see him taking all of Frank's minutes in the matchups where McGee isn't working, maybe vs the Clippers, Bucks. Stix, at the least, is some good fouls and physical play on Giannis and a few blocks.

We do need depth at C in case of Ayton or McGee injury with Saric and Frank out. No guarantee we keep McGee next year either.

Hopefully we can re-sign Smith on the cheap.

He looked a bit similar to McGee inside with easy dunks due to not being a defensive focus at all on offense. McGee is obviously more active an experienced and a better rebounder.

9 boards and 2 blocks in 22 minutes is pretty impressive for his first real game. He was 3-8 but was 1-6 from 3 so 2-2 otherwise.

In summer league it was the opposite..he was decent from 3 but bad from 3 but also played with a horrible group yet still made 1st team leading the summer league in rebounding.

He is a solid rebounder, looks like a good shot blocker, better on D than I thought, and can finish on offense inside if open. If he just improves enough from 3 to be a threat and be respected, he is definitely playable against anyone.

It would be silly to not resign McGee with how good he's been for us as a backup. We seriously need his length and experience at the 5 behind Ayton. We've had enough contractual concessions to make things happen honestly wherein ( if he's willing to resign for 5 million), his salary shouldn't make that much difference.

Resigning Smith would of course be optimal, As I still believe in his upside and trajectory ( IF we can just get him more" in game " minutes to acclimate to the speed of the game and find his rythym and confidence. Not picking up his option, along with not giving him actual legitimate playing time since drafting him of course had to be a blow to his confidence somewhat. But it appears he's working through it! He's still a bit too slight to realistically play outside the 5 with the exception of some small ball lineups. But in time he should beef up enough. I think on the right diet and training regimen, He can maybe get up to around 245lbs or so without losing much mobility.

It's a bit of a double edged sword that he's getting more minutes and progressing better now after us not picking up his option. I think that with a crappy/ really shallow upcoming free agency, There will be more teams willing to take a chance on him than before with any measurable improvement. And IF other offers do materialize ad a result of further development and improvements, I can't realistically see why he'd consider less to resign with the same team that didn't pick up his option?? Hopefully as you said, We can resign him for less. I just happen to think there'll be a few options from lottery teams needing size and willing to take a flyer on him for his upside and any noticable improvements made. What can we offer him vs, other teams again man?

I think not picking up Smith if we can somehow end up getting him at half price would in hindsight be a savvy move. I think he could be possibly be very good next year. Even if it's a 2 year deal with player option.

McGee may come down to how much else he gets offered elsewhere.

He will be 35 but on the other hand, it is probably his best season. Look at his per 36 #s, particularly with pts and rebounds, and then 2 pt %...that likely has a lot to do with playing with Paul but still.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgeeja01.html

[DirtyDez]

Its not possible but Sabonis on this team…. An aggressive low post scorer that can pass and shoot? Man.