2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[Slim Charless]

We're getting clean books, draft capital, and optionality in terms of players we want to keep around like PJ, Gafford and Christie (who's on a great contract)

I wouldn't want AD even if it came with a 2 FRP's, the guy is still owed $175m over the next 3 seasons with the last one being a player option at almost $63m and he'll be almost 35 by that point.

I agree. I think getting a clean cap with expirings in 2026 is a big part of this. Hence, why if they can get to certain apron levels - they can maybe make trades easier.

Christie and a FRP wouldn't be bad. Maybe flip Klay to another team. I don't hate it

We have to get past looking at KD as a salary dump and accepting a lowball garbage offer just to reduce cap space. That's a losing mentality that promotes negotiating from a position of weakness and a big reason why we lose trades surrendering unnecessary value at such a high rate. Slim pointed out KD's market value and it'll be better than most here anticipate even if just off the basis of bidding amongst multiple suitors. But doing a salary dump and maybe getting one singular 1st back would be nothing short of a catastrophic failure! KD's value is 1-2 good young players (upside talents, salary fillers (vet pieces) for matching purposes, and at minimum two 1sts. Maybe not any more than that under the current conditions of agee/ contract. But absolutely not garbage contracts and a singular 1st.

regardless of KD's age and contractual situation, Hee's still a 6'11 unstoppable scoring talent still putting up near triple-double production on elite efficiency and playing at near MVP levels/ MVP level impact on games. Too many people are being illogically influenced by the effects of our roster dysfunction, bad coaching, no flexibility, and no assets has created. BUT NONE OF THAT AT ALL affects KD's value to other teams. Because those other teams are not operating under the same conditions of futility as we are!
And due to that consideration, his value is only accentuated in better situations/ environments wherein his true impact can be maximized. So I'll give a value baseline example one more time for reference.

KD for Thompson/ Washington/ Marshall/ Martin/ Lively/ 2 1sts! DAL 25' 1st AND DAL 31' 1st. That's our threshold offer. And that would still leave them with

Irving/ Christie/Durant/ Davis/ Gafford.
Dinwiddie/ Hardy/ FA / Prosper/ Powell.
Williams/ Exum/ Hardy/ draft/ FA.

I'm highlighting this cause ppl here need to read that again.

Just because we suck does not mean that we need to have a fire sale and give Booker and Durant away for suboptimal/negative value.

Durant made all NBA last year and Booker is 1 of the best SGs in the league. They WILL return value. Good value.

This salary dump nonsense that I've seen from some posters here is loser talk and just awful negotiations. No different than the Luka trade. I mean we had guys here refusing to believe that Durant got the offer he solicited from the Dubs. Refused that he was worth that much, even after like multiple tweet were posted and ESPN verified it lol.

That's Durant's value. We'll get good stuff for him.

PS: I'm not talking about you Lili, I'm just making a point. This involves far too many guys here.

[Ghost of Kleine]

This was your quote and to be honest, I agree with the post, I don't mind letting Randle's $30m expire of cap flexibility.

What can we do with Randle and Dillingham?
Randle represents a massive $30 million expiring we can just let run out for more cap flexibility OR we can look to trade him for another key vet player, etc. Plus we should be able to aggregate salaries once the cap increases and if any trade we do doesn't put us back over the 2nd apron. So I'd look at doing this (if trying to become more competitive now!! So we'll consider these trades this summer. Upon acquiring Randle/Reid/Dillingham jr/ DET 25' 1st (17th pick)/ MIN 32' 1st. We trade (draft night)

To your point, clearly in here I'm sharing the multiple variables/ options available that we might consider if trading for Randle as an expiring contract. And yes, that is a legitimate consideration with a player like Randle who carries an entirely different level of value than Durant does in trade.

Because of those differences in representative value, with Randle it's a reasonable variable option to discuss in a KD to Minnesota trade.
So when I say it's an apples to Oranges comparison, based on differential market values and their individual value conditions in trades, they both affect their respective trade scenarios to vastly different levels.


Due to that it becomes more reasonable to list letting Randles' 30 million run out as a viable discussion point. But alternatively, because KD can clearly return much more value overall in a trade. Then the general premise of salary dumping KD in trade becomes completely egregious!

Ultimately to me, even though I mention letting Randles' 30 million run out for cap flexibility
this clearly was not the end goal for the purpose of pursuing free agents in the summer as it would have been mentioned as the stated goal in trading KD for Randle. This specific segment that you referenced was only taken in partial context as it continued to also mention the other options I've promoted ad nauseam trying to get Michael Porter Jr. By using his expiring along with one if Milics' $8 million or Martins' $8 million expiring and two firsts in trade to Denver.

But even so, again the premises between those two players and their situations contain entirely different variables and conditions as well as respective values in trade. So the premise of salary dumping KD at his value would be entirely different to the premise of salary dumping Randle. Because of respective trade values soliciting significantly different value outcomes and acceptable options.


But even with Randle, IF I COULD combine Randle with another expiring to return a different player over just letting him expire, that would be my preference overall. Creating different assets over simple cap space.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I agree. I think getting a clean cap with expirings in 2026 is a big part of this. Hence, why if they can get to certain apron levels - they can maybe make trades easier.

Christie and a FRP wouldn't be bad. Maybe flip Klay to another team. I don't hate it

We have to get past looking at KD as a salary dump and accepting a lowball garbage offer just to reduce cap space. That's a losing mentality that promotes negotiating from a position of weakness and a big reason why we lose trades surrendering unnecessary value at such a high rate. Slim pointed out KD's market value and it'll be better than most here anticipate even if just off the basis of bidding amongst multiple suitors. But doing a salary dump and maybe getting one singular 1st back would be nothing short of a catastrophic failure! KD's value is 1-2 good young players (upside talents, salary fillers (vet pieces) for matching purposes, and at minimum two 1sts. Maybe not any more than that under the current conditions of agee/ contract. But absolutely not garbage contracts and a singular 1st.

regardless of KD's age and contractual situation, Hee's still a 6'11 unstoppable scoring talent still putting up near triple-double production on elite efficiency and playing at near MVP levels/ MVP level impact on games. Too many people are being illogically influenced by the effects of our roster dysfunction, bad coaching, no flexibility, and no assets has created. BUT NONE OF THAT AT ALL affects KD's value to other teams. Because those other teams are not operating under the same conditions of futility as we are!
And due to that consideration, his value is only accentuated in better situations/ environments wherein his true impact can be maximized. So I'll give a value baseline example one more time for reference.

KD for Thompson/ Washington/ Marshall/ Martin/ Lively/ 2 1sts! DAL 25' 1st AND DAL 31' 1st. That's our threshold offer. And that would still leave them with

Irving/ Christie/Durant/ Davis/ Gafford.
Dinwiddie/ Hardy/ FA / Prosper/ Powell.
Williams/ Exum/ Hardy/ draft/ FA.

I'm highlighting this cause ppl here need to read that again.

Just because we suck does not mean that we need to have a fire sale and give Booker and Durant away for suboptimal/negative value.

Durant made all NBA last year and Booker is 1 of the best SGs in the league. They WILL return value. Good value.

This salary dump nonsense that I've seen from some posters here is loser talk and just awful negotiations. No different than the Luka trade. I mean we had guys here refusing to believe that Durant got the offer he solicited from the Dubs. Refused that he was worth that much, even after like multiple tweet were posted and ESPN verified it lol.

That's Durant's value. We'll get good stuff for him.

PS: I'm not talking about you Lili, I'm just making a point. This involves far too many guys here.

[SunsRback4Good]

GOK

[Ghost of Kleine]

GOK

We all play our roles my brother! Even the wilder and more outlier roles.

[lilfishi22]

This was your quote and to be honest, I agree with the post, I don't mind letting Randle's $30m expire of cap flexibility.

What can we do with Randle and Dillingham?
Randle represents a massive $30 million expiring we can just let run out for more cap flexibility OR we can look to trade him for another key vet player, etc. Plus we should be able to aggregate salaries once the cap increases and if any trade we do doesn't put us back over the 2nd apron. So I'd look at doing this (if trying to become more competitive now!! So we'll consider these trades this summer. Upon acquiring Randle/Reid/Dillingham jr/ DET 25' 1st (17th pick)/ MIN 32' 1st. We trade (draft night)

To your point, clearly in here I'm sharing the multiple variables/ options available that we might consider if trading for Randle as an expiring contract. And yes, that is a legitimate consideration with a player like Randle who carries an entirely different level of value than Durant does in trade.

Because of those differences in representative value, with Randle it's a reasonable variable option to discuss in a KD to Minnesota trade.
So when I say it's an apples to Oranges comparison, based on differential market values and their individual value conditions in trades, they both affect their respective trade scenarios to vastly different levels.


Due to that it becomes more reasonable to list letting Randles' 30 million run out as a viable discussion point. But alternatively, because KD can clearly return much more value overall in a trade. Then the general premise of salary dumping KD in trade becomes completely egregious!

Ultimately to me, even though I mention letting Randles' 30 million run out for cap flexibility
this clearly was not the end goal for the purpose of pursuing free agents in the summer as it would have been mentioned as the stated goal in trading KD for Randle. This specific segment that you referenced was only taken in partial context as it continued to also mention the other options I've promoted ad nauseam trying to get Michael Porter Jr. By using his expiring along with one if Milics' $8 million or Martins' $8 million expiring and two firsts in trade to Denver.

But even so, again the premises between those two players and their situations contain entirely different variables and conditions as well as respective values in trade. So the premise of salary dumping KD at his value would be entirely different to the premise of salary dumping Randle. Because of respective trade values soliciting significantly different value outcomes and acceptable options.


But even with Randle, IF I COULD combine Randle with another expiring to return a different player over just letting him expire, that would be my preference overall. Creating different assets over simple cap space.

I don't really care to go into what you "actually" meant because reading it at face value, it was the first option you put forth so it's an option you consider to be legitimate. At least at the time of posting. That's neither here or there so it's whatever

What I will agree you with is that while I do see valid value in Randle's expiring as cap flexibility (whereas you might not), my general view on using a player of Randle's caliber as an expiring is not a particularly good use of the asset, I've said that before. Which is why I don't feel like Minny is a great trade partner. They don't have easily tradeable contracts (Randle/Naz are both player options) and also I don't like the picks they have to move. I think I mentioned before as well but I also think McDaniels is getting into overpaid territory. His lack of consistent 3PT shooting really takes him away from the 3&D label. I'm probably overzealous but I feel like Dunn gives you 75-80% of what McDaniels give you for a fraction of the cost and McDaniels

[Qwigglez]

Read on Twitter

And then we end up trading DA before seeing what he could do with Vogel. The front office failed in such a spectacular fashion that I don't think it could be replicated in NBA2K.

[sunsbg]

Beal insisted DA is not included in his trade. The guy knew they needed a big to be successful. Only perimeter scorers can get you so far. May work if they are also good defenders or great passers, have another dimension to their game, which "Big 3" don't.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

And then we end up trading DA before seeing what he could do with Vogel. The front office failed in such a spectacular fashion that I don't think it could be replicated in NBA2K.

Should've moved him earlier when he had value

[sunsbum]

Read on Twitter

And then we end up trading DA before seeing what he could do with Vogel. The front office failed in such a spectacular fashion that I don't think it could be replicated in NBA2K.

Gambo tip toeing through the tulips here. He hated Chuck and DA. Pucker up to those jazz cheeks gambo

[Ghost of Kleine]

This was your quote and to be honest, I agree with the post, I don't mind letting Randle's $30m expire of cap flexibility.

To your point, clearly in here I'm sharing the multiple variables/ options available that we might consider if trading for Randle as an expiring contract. And yes, that is a legitimate consideration with a player like Randle who carries an entirely different level of value than Durant does in trade.

Because of those differences in representative value, with Randle it's a reasonable variable option to discuss in a KD to Minnesota trade.
So when I say it's an apples to Oranges comparison, based on differential market values and their individual value conditions in trades, they both affect their respective trade scenarios to vastly different levels.


Due to that it becomes more reasonable to list letting Randles' 30 million run out as a viable discussion point. But alternatively, because KD can clearly return much more value overall in a trade. Then the general premise of salary dumping KD in trade becomes completely egregious!

Ultimately to me, even though I mention letting Randles' 30 million run out for cap flexibility
this clearly was not the end goal for the purpose of pursuing free agents in the summer as it would have been mentioned as the stated goal in trading KD for Randle. This specific segment that you referenced was only taken in partial context as it continued to also mention the other options I've promoted ad nauseam trying to get Michael Porter Jr. By using his expiring along with one if Milics' $8 million or Martins' $8 million expiring and two firsts in trade to Denver.

But even so, again the premises between those two players and their situations contain entirely different variables and conditions as well as respective values in trade. So the premise of salary dumping KD at his value would be entirely different to the premise of salary dumping Randle. Because of respective trade values soliciting significantly different value outcomes and acceptable options.


But even with Randle, IF I COULD combine Randle with another expiring to return a different player over just letting him expire, that would be my preference overall. Creating different assets over simple cap space.

I don't really care to go into what you "actually" meant because reading it at face value, it was the first option you put forth so it's an option you consider to be legitimate. At least at the time of posting. That's neither here or there so it's whatever

What I will agree you with is that while I do see valid value in Randle's expiring as cap flexibility (whereas you might not), my general view on using a player of Randle's caliber as an expiring is not a particularly good use of the asset, I've said that before. Which is why I don't feel like Minny is a great trade partner. They don't have easily tradeable contracts (Randle/Naz are both player options) and also I don't like the picks they have to move. I think I mentioned before as well but I also think McDaniels is getting into overpaid territory. His lack of consistent 3PT shooting really takes him away from the 3&D label. I'm probably overzealous but I feel like Dunn gives you 75-80% of what McDaniels give you for a fraction of the cost and McDaniels

I don't really disagree with anything that you've said here, you make good points as always, and I actually do see the value in Randle as an expiring contract, but prefer if possible to use it on a trade ala MPJr or maybe even to Portland for Grant and Camara ( adding two 1sts) with the hope that getting off of J Grant's money and and getting the two 1sts would be enough value to include Camara before he blows up even more?

The reason why I don't really prefer using Randle for cap space ( upon further reflection) is because we're simply not guaranteed any signings in free agency. We already won't have the best player relations reputation with our history of Ayton, Crowder, Beal, then Jones, and now Durant too with the way our front office has fumbled things.

So I'd again prefer the bird in hand scenario. Because I just don't trust we'd land anyone of consequence even with cap space given how much of a complete clusterf***! Our front office, coaching, and situation in general likely appears.


Ironically the other reason I've preferred promoting trading for MPJr is because his contract expires at the same time as Beal's, giving us upwards of 97+ million towards signing another big name in 27 free agency as there'll be a ton of huge names that leaded summer.

Given the restrictive nature of the new CBA, I'd think that having close to 98 million could really help reload quicker to mitigate any PHX picks in 29 and 30 floating around if we hold onto Booker. Lastly, from this summer up until 27 when those contracts expire, trading for MPJr would help fill the scoring role at the starting PF that would also provide floor spacing for Booker and Beal.


And of course we'd fill in the gaps around those three positions with high level defenders by trading Allen, O' neale and the others by any draft picks we have left or acquire via those trades? To the point of my very detailed trade outlines and the follow up steps involved. And also why trying to maximize value is a critical factor for me in any KD trade if at all possible.

[DirtyDez]

How many tradable first rd picks do the Mavs have?

[sunsbg]

At this point need to limit KD's minutes for the rest of the season. Giving up what seems like 9-10 pick at best after two years of the underwhelming "Big 3" experience sucks, but right now most important thing is he stays healthy and FO gets the best available package in the offseason.

[sunsbg]

How many tradable first rd picks do the Mavs have?

We must root for Mavs to fail. They have young players like PJ, Lively and picks. Lakers one and their own '31 should be good value.

[lilfishi22]

How many tradable first rd picks do the Mavs have?

We must root for Mavs to fail. They have young players like PJ, Lively and picks. Lakers one and their own '31 should be good value.

Can't get skinnier and more in shape than KD

[DirtyDez]

How many tradable first rd picks do the Mavs have?

We must root for Mavs to fail. They have young players like PJ, Lively and picks. Lakers one and their own '31 should be good value.

They shouldn’t trade Lively as he’s a cheap swing big and can start when AD is injured.

PJ
Gafford
Martin
Powell = $41m

Plus all their 1st rd pick (I think it’s only 2-3). I just want future unprotected picks that have upside.

[Ghost of Kleine]

How many tradable first rd picks do the Mavs have?

We must root for Mavs to fail. They have young players like PJ, Lively and picks. Lakers one and their own '31 should be good value.

Can't get skinnier and more in shape than KD

KD is definitely svelte!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[thamadkant]

How many tradable first rd picks do the Mavs have?

We must root for Mavs to fail. They have young players like PJ, Lively and picks. Lakers one and their own '31 should be good value.

They shouldn’t trade Lively as he’s a cheap swing big and can start when AD is injured.

PJ
Gafford
Martin
Powell = $41m

Plus all their 1st rd pick (I think it’s only 2-3). I just want future unprotected picks that have upside.

No.

Trading for veterans at this point just means Suns are giving up a dollar for ten cent pieces. Reminds me of the Childress, Tukoglu and Warrick days.

KD and Booker needs to go for under 24 year olds and picks. Thats the ONLY viable way.

[Ghost of Kleine]

How many tradable first rd picks do the Mavs have?

To stay within the Stepien rules, they have the 25', ' 29' two 1sts- LAL 29 and their 29 1st (HOU swap rights), 31' 1sts. But the picks you really want are the DAL 25' 1st ( 14th pick) and the DAL 31' 1st because that pick will undoubtedly be a top value lottery pick with all of KD, AD, and Irving long gone.