Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

[TeamTragic]

Based on this season's play I think teams would rather try to steal Hayward in free agency than blow their assets George. That or Jimmy Butler. Both those guys have been better than Paul George. Even going back to last season, George has been shooting in the low 40% range. He's not particularly a great scorer and we already have guys shooting in that range already (Booker, Knight).

Us fans would be a little more eager to acquire one of those wings had we landed Boogie but we didn't. No idea what the front office thinks.

I was overreacting in the PJ Tucker thread for sure. Still in favour of the tank but we just need to keep making smart deals. McD has shown he can make some 2k transactions when he's not treating players like robots. Losing Thomas and the Lakers pick for Knight to me is really the only blemish on his resume so far (a pretty bad one though). Stealing Chriss from the Kings after the Morris fiasco was very good maneuvering and also getting stuff for Dragic are among his best moves.

One of the reasons I like Butler more is it would give us the option of signing another top tier free agent. If we went after Hayward it would limit us to what we can do further. I would prefer Hayward over George though since he would cost us no assets.

I would say make an offer for George right now. If we get him build around him ASAP. I would pass on Cousins in FA. I don't think we will get Butler unless Ainge pulls his offer. Therefore we really only have one option.

[LukasBMW]

I think a traditional big is what Bledsoe needs. Bledsoe loves to run the pick and roll but he also loves to drive and dish and we've seen guys like Miles Plumlee and Tyson Chandler benefit from this. Len cannot seem to figure out how to benefit from this because he is a terrible finisher.

Jah actually has a decent midrange game and could possibly continue to improve his shot. Not only can he post up, but I think he could pick and pop quite well.

Jah has been buried in the clusterf--k that is the 76ers front court. The funny thing is Embiid and Noel both have long term health concerns. Jah did have his knee injury, but other then that, he has been much more durable.

Jah put 17 and 7 in his rookie season. His rookie freaking season!

Advanced stats show that his poor defensive rating may be due to the fact that the Sixers tanked last year and not that he was a horrible defender.

Getting Jah is a way to possibly salvage the Brandon Knight deal. We buy low on a guy who has not been properly utilized or given consistent minutes to develop. Having Chandler around to teach Jah will be tremendous. Jah WILL respect Chandler. Having Jah on the roster will also give teams second thoughts about throwing a lot of money at Alex Len (if we don't trade him away in the deal).

I'm all in for this!

[LukasBMW]

Alex Len has never had a game like this IN HIS LIFE (much less against an allstar center):

Watch on YouTube

[LukasBMW]

If Philly wants a draft pick + Knight, give them the lesser of the Miami/Phx pick in 2018/2019.

[jredsaz]

Cousins is eligible for an extension this year. And we still wouldn't have the space to sign someone of value. This year we have $13 mil in space before Cousins and Butler in these hypos, who all make more than that (Butler at $17.5 this year and increasing for 3 years), Cousins at $17 and increasing. Who do you honestly expect to sign and at what amount? Let's see these numbers add up. Depending on what goes out you are already above $102 in that scenario.

2018 roster with Butler, Boogie, Chandler, Dudley, Chriss, Booker, Ulis, Jones, and Barbosa guarantee comes in around $83 million. With the 2017 first at +/-$4 million sitting at around $15 million in space give or take.

But none of this really matters because we didn't get Boogie.

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You just left out Bledsoe, who eats up all of that $15 million. Unless you think we're getting Boogie and he's staying without Bledsoe. And if we're not keeping Bledsoe, well, $15 mil in cap space gets you an Alex Len caliber player. Hell, George Hill is likely to get $20 mil starting according to many.

Also, while it's fun to think about, a group of Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, Cousins, Chandler does not even come close to beating GS imo.

That number included Bledsoe. I just forgot to list him. Imo it comes close given Booker's growth over the next couple years and health provided.

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[AtheJ415]

I think a traditional big is what Bledsoe needs. Bledsoe loves to run the pick and roll but he also loves to drive and dish and we've seen guys like Miles Plumlee and Tyson Chandler benefit from this. Len cannot seem to figure out how to benefit from this because he is a terrible passer.

Jah actually has a decent midrange game and could possibly continue to improve his shot. Not only can he post up, but I think he could pick and pop quite well.

Jah has been buried in the clusterf--k that is the 76ers front court. The funny thing is Embiid and Noel both have long term health concerns. Jah did have his knee injury, but other then that, he has been much more durable.

Jah put 17 and 7 in his rookie season. His rookie freaking season!

Advanced stats show that his poor defensive rating may be due to the fact that the Sixers tanked last year and not that he was a horrible defender.

Getting Jah is a way to possibly salvage the Brandon Knight deal. We buy low on a guy who has not been properly utilized or given consistent minutes to develop. Having Chandler around to teach Jah will be tremendous. Jah WILL respect Chandler. Having Jah on the roster will also give teams second thoughts about throwing a lot of money at Alex Len (if we don't trade him away in the deal).

I'm all in for this!

I caution quite a bit here on some of this: His jumper isn't really all that great. I would actually argue Len's is more likely to be better long-term. Jahlil's not shooting on good percentages (neither is Len though). He hasn't played defense going back to high school. At Duke he was a turnstyle, which is why I personally didn't blame LA for passing on him (I would have taken D'Angelo also). In fact I would argue the single biggest question mark about Jahlil is if he will ever have a desire to even try defensively.

I think the only thing Jahlil has shown he can do at the NBA level is his impressive array of post moves, but even then he needs to get more efficient there.

He's got potential, but it hinges on him continuing to develop in the post and becoming at least an adequate defender. I don't think he has the jumper you think he does, and thus don't see the pick and pop potential there. At best I see Al Jefferson. At worst a less efficient Enes Kanter. We'll see. I would still love to get him for Knight, but I am against putting picks in the trade unless they are heavily protected.

[sunskerr]

I think a traditional big is what Bledsoe needs. Bledsoe loves to run the pick and roll but he also loves to drive and dish and we've seen guys like Miles Plumlee and Tyson Chandler benefit from this. Len cannot seem to figure out how to benefit from this because he is a terrible passer.

Jah actually has a decent midrange game and could possibly continue to improve his shot. Not only can he post up, but I think he could pick and pop quite well.

Jah has been buried in the clusterf--k that is the 76ers front court. The funny thing is Embiid and Noel both have long term health concerns. Jah did have his knee injury, but other then that, he has been much more durable.

Jah put 17 and 7 in his rookie season. His rookie freaking season!

Advanced stats show that his poor defensive rating may be due to the fact that the Sixers tanked last year and not that he was a horrible defender.

Getting Jah is a way to possibly salvage the Brandon Knight deal. We buy low on a guy who has not been properly utilized or given consistent minutes to develop. Having Chandler around to teach Jah will be tremendous. Jah WILL respect Chandler. Having Jah on the roster will also give teams second thoughts about throwing a lot of money at Alex Len (if we don't trade him away in the deal).

I'm all in for this!

I don't agree. If I recall correctly, Jahlil is the worst defensive center in the league by a wide margin. Center is also the worst position to be bad at defensively since teams can basically do anything they want on offense. He is bad at defense because he is bad at defense, not because of the tanking. He's not going out there purposely allowing opponents to score and rebound, thats a pretty ridiculous assertion imo.

[AtheJ415]

2018 roster with Butler, Boogie, Chandler, Dudley, Chriss, Booker, Ulis, Jones, and Barbosa guarantee comes in around $83 million. With the 2017 first at +/-$4 million sitting at around $15 million in space give or take.

But none of this really matters because we didn't get Boogie.

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You just left out Bledsoe, who eats up all of that $15 million. Unless you think we're getting Boogie and he's staying without Bledsoe. And if we're not keeping Bledsoe, well, $15 mil in cap space gets you an Alex Len caliber player. Hell, George Hill is likely to get $20 mil starting according to many.

Also, while it's fun to think about, a group of Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, Cousins, Chandler does not even come close to beating GS imo.

That number included Bledsoe. I just forgot to list him. Imo it comes close given Booker's growth over the next couple years and health provided.

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I don't see how, in a game dominated by efficiency, you think that group could possibly beat GSW. Guys like Chandler and Booker are not legitimately good players. Booker is great for his age, but he is not yet a good player. He has a negative vorp for god's sake, and he gives up 116 points per 100 while scoring 103, and his WS/48 is down from last year due to a drop in efficiency. Chandler does 1 thing well--rebound. His defense and overall offense are not starting quality. Len is better at the things that truly matter from the 5 spot, but nobody seems to care. Jimmy Butler is great but he's not better than anything relative to Durant this year (you could argue Durant should be DPOY right now). Bledsoe same with Curry. Booker gets annihilated by Thompson. Basically the only prayer would be Cousins so thoroughly dominating Draymond and Iggy that the rest of this didn't matter.

[jredsaz]

You just left out Bledsoe, who eats up all of that $15 million. Unless you think we're getting Boogie and he's staying without Bledsoe. And if we're not keeping Bledsoe, well, $15 mil in cap space gets you an Alex Len caliber player. Hell, George Hill is likely to get $20 mil starting according to many.

Also, while it's fun to think about, a group of Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, Cousins, Chandler does not even come close to beating GS imo.

That number included Bledsoe. I just forgot to list him. Imo it comes close given Booker's growth over the next couple years and health provided.

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I don't see how, in a game dominated by efficiency, you think that group could possibly beat GSW. Guys like Chandler and Booker are not legitimately good players. Booker is great for his age, but he is not yet a good player. He has a negative vorp for god's sake, and he gives up 116 points per 100 while scoring 103, and his WS/48 is down from last year due to a drop in efficiency. Chandler does 1 thing well--rebound. His defense and overall offense are not starting quality. Len is better at the things that truly matter from the 5 spot, but nobody seems to care. Jimmy Butler is great but he's not better than anything relative to Durant this year (you could argue Durant should be DPOY right now). Bledsoe same with Curry. Booker gets annihilated by Thompson. Basically the only prayer would be Cousins so thoroughly dominating Draymond and Iggy that the rest of this didn't matter.

When you have $15 million in room moving Chandler and/or Dudley gets you closer or over the max level money of around $30- $35 mil. So serious free agent acquisition could happen as well. You still have pieces including future firsts and a player like Chriss for trades. Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, Boogie and you still have avenues for further improvement to compete with GS over the next three to five years. But Boogies been traded so it doesn't really matter anymore.

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[jredsaz]

KCP being made available is interesting. What is his value given his inevitable pay day?

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[thamadkant]

I think a traditional big is what Bledsoe needs. Bledsoe loves to run the pick and roll but he also loves to drive and dish and we've seen guys like Miles Plumlee and Tyson Chandler benefit from this. Len cannot seem to figure out how to benefit from this because he is a terrible passer.

Jah actually has a decent midrange game and could possibly continue to improve his shot. Not only can he post up, but I think he could pick and pop quite well.

Jah has been buried in the clusterf--k that is the 76ers front court. The funny thing is Embiid and Noel both have long term health concerns. Jah did have his knee injury, but other then that, he has been much more durable.

Jah put 17 and 7 in his rookie season. His rookie freaking season!

Advanced stats show that his poor defensive rating may be due to the fact that the Sixers tanked last year and not that he was a horrible defender.

Getting Jah is a way to possibly salvage the Brandon Knight deal. We buy low on a guy who has not been properly utilized or given consistent minutes to develop. Having Chandler around to teach Jah will be tremendous. Jah WILL respect Chandler. Having Jah on the roster will also give teams second thoughts about throwing a lot of money at Alex Len (if we don't trade him away in the deal).

I'm all in for this!

I don't agree. If I recall correctly, Jahlil is the worst defensive center in the league by a wide margin. Center is also the worst position to be bad at defensively since teams can basically do anything they want on offense. He is bad at defense because he is bad at defense, not because of the tanking. He's not going out there purposely allowing opponents to score and rebound, thats a pretty ridiculous assertion imo.

Suns have the worst perimeter 3pt defense. With Okafor, teams will shoot less 3s as they just go inside their big men.... Thats trading a 3 pter for a 2pter... Net win for Suns!!

[Kerrsed]

KCP being made available is interesting. What is his value given his inevitable pay day?

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I think its more about the Pistons just seeing what teams value him at rather than actually trading him.

[Qwigglez]

If we aren't targeting Butler than I'd hope we trade Knight for Okafor. Nothing to lose here. If we are able to get a 1st for Chandler than we should trade him too. Give the minutes to Len and Okafor. See what Bledsoe/Booker are capable of doing with a big man who can post up.

[Scutt]

You just left out Bledsoe, who eats up all of that $15 million. Unless you think we're getting Boogie and he's staying without Bledsoe. And if we're not keeping Bledsoe, well, $15 mil in cap space gets you an Alex Len caliber player. Hell, George Hill is likely to get $20 mil starting according to many.

Also, while it's fun to think about, a group of Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, Cousins, Chandler does not even come close to beating GS imo.

That number included Bledsoe. I just forgot to list him. Imo it comes close given Booker's growth over the next couple years and health provided.

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I don't see how, in a game dominated by efficiency, you think that group could possibly beat GSW. Guys like Chandler and Booker are not legitimately good players. Booker is great for his age, but he is not yet a good player. He has a negative vorp for god's sake, and he gives up 116 points per 100 while scoring 103, and his WS/48 is down from last year due to a drop in efficiency. Chandler does 1 thing well--rebound. His defense and overall offense are not starting quality. Len is better at the things that truly matter from the 5 spot, but nobody seems to care. Jimmy Butler is great but he's not better than anything relative to Durant this year (you could argue Durant should be DPOY right now). Bledsoe same with Curry. Booker gets annihilated by Thompson. Basically the only prayer would be Cousins so thoroughly dominating Draymond and Iggy that the rest of this didn't matter.

I could not agree more. It is just too bad that our front office and the majority of the fan base do not seem to get it. Maybe if Suns fans started valuing defense, our front office would too, instead of just giving us Earl Watson's used car salesman/ preacher lip service.

[thamadkant]

Booker is a star level scorer... But he needs defense... Or else he becomes Kevin Martin. Allen Houston and Reggie Miller were respectable defenders.

[jredsaz]

KCP being made available is interesting. What is his value given his inevitable pay day?

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I think its more about the Pistons just seeing what teams value him at rather than actually trading him.

Yeah sure. Stan is putting people on notice in motown. But what is his value to you? Warren plus?

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[Kerrsed]

Suns have the worst perimeter 3pt defense. With Okafor, teams will shoot less 3s as they just go inside their big men.... Thats trading a 3 pter for a 2pter... Net win for Suns!!

That is hilarious and a good way to think about it!

I just look at Okafor this way, from what we have heard, no one wants Knight. No one is really interested in Knight.....except Philly. To me Knight in Philly makes sense, as i have stated a million times already this season. I think Simmons, when he comes back healthy, will be the primary ball handler. If Simmons is going to play that role, Philly's best bet is to put a shooting/scoring PG in the starting line-up. Now back to Okafor, many teams have been linked to him. There is interest there, where there is damn near none with Knight, so trading Knight for Okafor is a no brainer in my book. I would look at throwing a couple of 2nd rounders at them if gets the job done, as we already have youth at damn near every position, so much so that many of them dont even receive the proper playing time to develop, and we will be adding yet another one with our 2017 1st rounder. They want some 2nd round picks? Fine, give it to them!

[AtheJ415]

KCP being made available is interesting. What is his value given his inevitable pay day?

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I think its more about the Pistons just seeing what teams value him at rather than actually trading him.

Yeah sure. Stan is putting people on notice in motown. But what is his value to you? Warren plus?

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I'd much rather have Warren than KCP. Just see more potential with Warren.

I am more interested if we could grab Stanimal from them cheaply.

[gaspar]

Dammit the Nets just got the exact package I wanted for Tucker for Bogdanovic. Nicholson's contract and a 1st rounder.

Good work by the Nets as they climb out of that horrid hole they got themselves in. I don't hate this trade for Washington Bogdan helps a weak bench.

Nicholson is an end of the bench scrub making $6-7M for the next 4 YEARS. You're just buying a 24th pick for $25M. That's not a good deal at all.

[Kerrsed]

As for Tucker, one idea i had, and who knows how down they will be, but i think that Tucker/Chandler would do great for the Spurs.

Tucker/Chandler for Ginobilli (Buyout)/ Murray/2017 1st (or even a future 1st).

Ginobilli really isnt doing much with the Spurs and really isnt playing that many minutes. At 39 years old, i feel like they could get more out of Tucker and Chandler (specially in the playoffs) than they will get from Ginobilli. He is on an expiring contract, and we can just buy him out and let him retire a few months early.

Unfortunately its against the NBA rules for us to trade for him, buy him out, then he re-sign to the Spurs for cheap cheap (Since he would already have got paid in full from the buyout). So i doubt the Spurs would do it, as more of a respect thing rather than a "It doesnt make basketball sense" thing.