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2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

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Do you truly expect the Suns to win the finals this year?

Yes
18
55%
No
15
45%
 
Total votes: 33

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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1441 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:18 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
We do need depth at C in case of Ayton or McGee injury with Saric and Frank out. No guarantee we keep McGee next year either.

Hopefully we can re-sign Smith on the cheap.

He looked a bit similar to McGee inside with easy dunks due to not being a defensive focus at all on offense. McGee is obviously more active an experienced and a better rebounder.

9 boards and 2 blocks in 22 minutes is pretty impressive for his first real game. He was 3-8 but was 1-6 from 3 so 2-2 otherwise.

In summer league it was the opposite..he was decent from 3 but bad from 3 but also played with a horrible group yet still made 1st team leading the summer league in rebounding.

He is a solid rebounder, looks like a good shot blocker, better on D than I thought, and can finish on offense inside if open. If he just improves enough from 3 to be a threat and be respected, he is definitely playable against anyone.


It would be silly to not resign McGee with how good he's been for us as a backup. We seriously need his length and experience at the 5 behind Ayton. We've had enough contractual concessions to make things happen honestly wherein ( if he's willing to resign for 5 million), his salary shouldn't make that much difference.

Resigning Smith would of course be optimal, As I still believe in his upside and trajectory ( IF we can just get him more" in game " minutes to acclimate to the speed of the game and find his rythym and confidence. Not picking up his option, along with not giving him actual legitimate playing time since drafting him of course had to be a blow to his confidence somewhat. But it appears he's working through it! He's still a bit too slight to realistically play outside the 5 with the exception of some small ball lineups. But in time he should beef up enough. I think on the right diet and training regimen, He can maybe get up to around 245lbs or so without losing much mobility.

It's a bit of a double edged sword that he's getting more minutes and progressing better now after us not picking up his option. I think that with a crappy/ really shallow upcoming free agency, There will be more teams willing to take a chance on him than before with any measurable improvement. And IF other offers do materialize ad a result of further development and improvements, I can't realistically see why he'd consider less to resign with the same team that didn't pick up his option?? Hopefully as you said, We can resign him for less. I just happen to think there'll be a few options from lottery teams needing size and willing to take a flyer on him for his upside and any noticable improvements made. What can we offer him vs, other teams again man? :dontknow:




McGee may come down to how much else he gets offered elsewhere.

He will be 35 but on the other hand, it is probably his best season. Look at his per 36 #s, particularly with pts and rebounds, and then 2 pt %...that likely has a lot to do with playing with Paul but still.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgeeja01.html


Yeah! Very true on McGee's percieved value this summer. Something like 16/11/ 3 blocks should garner him maybe somewhere in the area of 10- 15 million + -. I'd definitely be somewhat salty if we lose him to another team given what he's shown in his time here. But I suppose it's just the nature of the business. Kind of crazy to consider all the decent ( but not great) free agents have come here over the years and have elevated their value immensely under then Naxh, and currently Paul. Still would hope to keep him though. Might be reasonable to really consider adding another big on a two yr (affordable deal) if possible just as insurance against McGee leaving? ( with Saric being out for the season and Kaminsky being better as a floor spacing mobile 4)?

I hope that Smith becomes that savvy move that you mentioned! But not right ready to trust our luck in free agency yet. Kind of wanted us to have leveraged control by picking up that option ( in case of marked improvements). But it is what it is.

Maybe we can trade for an insurance option? any of:
Moses Brown from Dallas, Drew Eubanks or Jock Landale from San Antonio, Hartenstein from Clippers, Queta from Sactown, Azubuike from Utah, Jay Huff from Washington ( Smith goes home)? Would really love to trade for either Garza or Tillie ( To be that Saric replacement). Or else in free agency from the unrestricted pool:

1- Mitchell Robinson.
Would he be willing to play a backup role on a short deal to compete for a championship. But also in knowing that if he plays with Paul, He'll likely see his value increase heading into a better, more lucrative free agency??

2- Thomas Bryant.
Bryant would be a solid get for the right pricetag honestly. Who wouldn't want to play with Paul and compete for a championship??
Would he come cheaper than what McGee will command?


3- Robin Lopez.
Lopez is a solid stop gap option once Orlando pays Bamba and even with 40 million in potential cap space, They may opt to look elsewhere in free agency.

Of course you always have extreme bargain options such as:
Dieng, Dedmon, Hartenstein, Whiteside, maybe even Zeller?
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1442 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:33 am

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
Only two players this season are averaging at least 30 points and 20 rebounds per 100 possessions:

Nikola Jokic
JaVale McGee https://t.co/JHrlXJZYYX
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1443 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:35 am

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
The best teams in clutch minutes over the last decade:

2021-22 Suns = +53.5 NetRtg
2015-16 Warriors = +34.1 NetRtg
2012-13 Heat = +28.9 NetRtg

Phoenix is showing when the game matters most why they’re a juggernaut (via @basketbllnews): https://t.co/wSvqOm4mjv
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1444 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:38 am

Duane Rankin (@DuaneRankin) Tweeted:
When @betway asked who he'd love to play for if he was playing today, Charles Oakley said #Suns.

"All they needed was a tough big man last year, and they could have won a championship. If they had Bobby Portis in Phoenix, they would have beat Milwaukee." https://t.co/oZJ57nUlHa https://t.co/odEDJCgXCG
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I hope that Ayton hears this and stays hungry and physical!!! :banghead:
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1445 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:43 am

David (@theIVpointplay) Tweeted:
Through 25 games, Cam Johnson is shooting 40.8% from 3.

In 11.9 mins w/ McGee = 44.6% on 2.6 attempts
In 11.7 mins w/o McGee = 36.7% on 2.4 attempts
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1446 » by bwgood77 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:08 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:David (@theIVpointplay) Tweeted:
Through 25 games, Cam Johnson is shooting 40.8% from 3.

In 11.9 mins w/ McGee = 44.6% on 2.6 attempts
In 11.7 mins w/o McGee = 36.7% on 2.4 attempts
Read on Twitter
?s=20


I like that. It will be nice when he plays more with Ayton too. That gravity helps a lot and those weird small ball units have killed us at times..they don't have to worry about a big getting easy baskets in the middle.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1447 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:11 am

Zona (@ZonaHoops_) Tweeted:
7 Realistic Trades the Phoenix Suns should make.

Which one is your favorite? Least favorite? Who was snubbed? Let me know ⬇️
https://t.co/9L0GqS4PDT
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These trades are decent. But out of all of the trades, I would probably go with either Nance or Covington ( in case we face Milwaukee or Nets). Either would be very solid guarding Middleton or Holiday. Or if we face the nets, guarding Durant or Harden.

The Craig trade is fine too. But only if we still look to add more size via trade! I'd prefer Craig replace Nader at backup 3. And then add either Thompson ( elite offensive rebounder) or Favors!

** IF we do a trade with OKC for Williams, I'd rather get Tre Mann or Theo Maledon back. Maybe for Saric/ Smith/ 2 2nds. Don't care for Muscala. Mann has a bit of tre young to his game. And Maledon could be a very solid additional ballhandler for us!!

Better yet, Saric/ Smith/ First for Favors/ Mann/ Watson?

Ideally I'd rank our trade considerations like this:
1- Nance.
2- Covington.
3- Favors (+ Mann).
4- Craig.
5- Thompson.
6- Kenrich Williams (+ Tre Mann).
7- Boucher (+ Malachi Flynn).

*** IF were trading for Gordon and his close to 20 million over the next three seasons ( I personally wouldn't trade for Gordon at that price). BUT..........If we did trade for Gordon, Then they better be adding value with either Porter Jr. Or Garuba or Christopher coming back!! Honestly, I'd rather just trade directly for Wood or Theiss if possible. :dontknow:
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1448 » by bigfoot » Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:16 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:David (@theIVpointplay) Tweeted:
Through 25 games, Cam Johnson is shooting 40.8% from 3.

In 11.9 mins w/ McGee = 44.6% on 2.6 attempts
In 11.7 mins w/o McGee = 36.7% on 2.4 attempts
Read on Twitter
?s=20


I like that. It will be nice when he plays more with Ayton too. That gravity helps a lot and those weird small ball units have killed us at times..they don't have to worry about a big getting easy baskets in the middle.


Let's see ... so CamJo shoots worse on 3-pointers when he doesn't play with McGee. Must mean Ayton does not roll hard enough to the basket to collapse the defense and draw defenders away from the 3-point line. Maybe it's not a good idea to have Johnson play with Ayton until Ayton figures it out. Of course, it took three years for him to figure out he could fake a handoff to Booker and drive hard to the rim for a dunk. I figure in three more years DA will have figured out how to roll hard to the basket. At least one time I hope. After all, I haven't seen that hard drive to rim yet again. It might be a once-a-season thing.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1449 » by bwgood77 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:24 am

bigfoot wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:David (@theIVpointplay) Tweeted:
Through 25 games, Cam Johnson is shooting 40.8% from 3.

In 11.9 mins w/ McGee = 44.6% on 2.6 attempts
In 11.7 mins w/o McGee = 36.7% on 2.4 attempts
Read on Twitter
?s=20


I like that. It will be nice when he plays more with Ayton too. That gravity helps a lot and those weird small ball units have killed us at times..they don't have to worry about a big getting easy baskets in the middle.


Let's see ... so CamJo shoots worse on 3-pointers when he doesn't play with McGee. Must mean Ayton does not roll hard enough to the basket to collapse the defense and draw defenders away from the 3-point line. Maybe it's not a good idea to have Johnson play with Ayton until Ayton figures it out. Of course, it took three years for him to figure out he could fake a handoff to Booker and drive hard to the rim for a dunk. I figure in three more years DA will have figured out how to roll hard to the basket. At least one time I hope. After all, I haven't seen that hard drive to rim yet again. It might be a once-a-season thing.


Cam hasn't played a ton with Ayton and he shoots better off the bench in part to playing against worst defenders. We have gone small ball without a C several times which doesn't help.

You must not watch closely if you don't think Ayton pulls gravity. He is much more heavily defended than McGee inside.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1450 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:40 am

StatMuse (@statmuse) Tweeted:
Four of the 10 worst shooting performances by Steph Curry in his career have come this season (min 20 FGA):

4-21 (19.0%) vs Suns in November
5-21 (23.8%) vs Lakers in October
7-28 (25.0%) vs Spurs in December
6-20 (30.0%) vs 76ers tonight https://t.co/7P3xzGBQ1l
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1451 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:04 am

Duane Rankin (@DuaneRankin) Tweeted:
Phoenix #Suns enter back-to-back road trip with #NBA best record after #Warriors road loss to #76ers (w/video) https://t.co/3CqbytIZAI via @azcentral https://t.co/DqgqguDt3S
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1452 » by SunsRback4Good » Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:58 am

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2145768&start=20

Catchall must work for ESPN who never give us credit no matter what we do. I'm used to it by now but still hilarious and sad to read at the same time.

Pj0rt is the man. ;)
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1453 » by Slim Charless » Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:49 am

What would you guys think about buying low on Grant? He's injured now but we wouldn't need him yet. We let him sit till the ASB and boom we have an awesome PF that can be huge for the playoffs. DET was already doing the tank but now they are full steam ahead, we could get him for a lot less than last year.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1454 » by Bogyo » Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:06 am

Slim Charless wrote:What would you guys think about buying low on Grant? He's injured now but we wouldn't need him yet. We let him sit till the ASB and boom we have an awesome PF that can be huge for the playoffs. DET was already doing the tank but now they are full steam ahead, we could get him for a lot less than last year.


We don't really have the pieces to outbid a halfway decent offer.
Our offer would have to look like, salary, young guys, draft picks.
1. Salary: either Crowder or Saric. If we are lucky Detroit prefers Saric as he is not playing this year and they are tanking. Next year he is an expiring which could be flipped.
2. Young guy(s): Jalen Smith for sure for salary purposes as well, and them trying out a recent lottery pick. After this we might have to add CamJo. He would be the young player who makes it worthwile for Detroit, and also his salary is also needed as Grant makes 20 mill. Other than him we can only offer Hutchinson - but let's take ourselves a bit more serious than this. We are not Lakers fans...
3. Draftpicks - we don't really have anything good to offer, unless Detroit is crazy about something like a 2027 unprotected first pick and hopes we fall off until then. All of our picks will be late(ish) in the first or the second round until then unless we get terrible injury luck in the coming years.

Not sure why anybody wouldn't have a better offer than that. Not sure why Detroit would do this. I wouldn't if I were them.

*edit: I was bored and played around with the trade machine... One trade that is more realistic for both teams value-wise, but I still wouldn't do becouse of chemistry issues is:

Grant+Corey Joseph for Crowder+Payne+Hutch. Works in the trade machine. We get a better starting PF, and an adequate bench PG. They get some adults in the room, who are actually good vets, on good contracts which expire in time for them to expand their young guys and/or sign somebody meaningful for their young core in 2 years... and they could show the young guys the ropes, while they bottom out this year and next, so a full tanking move for Detroit.

But I think this messes up our team chemistry in the short term, so even this is a no go for me. I like Payne better than this.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1455 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:37 am

GSW are 3-3 in their past 6 games, wonder if it's a blip or a reversion?

Hoping Cam Payne can find some form soon too.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1456 » by Saberestar » Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:55 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:GSW are 3-3 in their past 6 games, wonder if it's a blip or a reversion?

Hoping Cam Payne can find some form soon too.

I have said it a few times already, IMO the Warriors are not true contenders. Teams weren't aware of Poole and he is much more in the scouting's report for the last couple of weeks.

Lakers can go Top #3, a lot of games left yet.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1457 » by SunsRback4Good » Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:18 pm

Warriors are pretenders and nothing more with or without Klay. Good luck relying on Wiggins, Poole, Payton, Toscano in the playoffs I mean they are no Bogut, Livingston, Barbosa or young Iggy who had a ton of playoff experience. I'll come back to this post in May but I'm predicting the Jazz to beat them in 6-7 games in semis as the 3rd seed. I fear the Bucks & Nets more than the W's.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1458 » by Bogyo » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:43 pm

SunsRback4Good wrote:Warriors are pretenders and nothing more with or without Klay. Good luck relying on Wiggins, Poole, Payton, Toscano in the playoffs I mean they are no Bogut, Livingston, Barbosa or young Iggy who had a ton of playoff experience. I'll come back to this post in May but I'm predicting the Jazz to beat them in 6-7 games in semis as the 3rd seed. I fear the Bucks & Nets more than the W's.


Wow. :o
That's an unusual take. We are at the quarter of the season and they have like an 80% record, and they are waiting for 2 key players to come back. If Klay or Wisemann do not mess up their chemistry, I do not see them getting worse. Plus my gut tells me they will trade for another star / quality vet and go all in for the championship.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1459 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:55 pm

If GSW can land a big like Sabonis or Wood they'd be incredibly tough to beat.

Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green, Sabonis

Trade - Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody, 2 x 1sts for Sabonis
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1460 » by Slim Charless » Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:13 pm

Bogyo wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:What would you guys think about buying low on Grant? He's injured now but we wouldn't need him yet. We let him sit till the ASB and boom we have an awesome PF that can be huge for the playoffs. DET was already doing the tank but now they are full steam ahead, we could get him for a lot less than last year.


We don't really have the pieces to outbid a halfway decent offer.
Our offer would have to look like, salary, young guys, draft picks.
1. Salary: either Crowder or Saric. If we are lucky Detroit prefers Saric as he is not playing this year and they are tanking. Next year he is an expiring which could be flipped.
2. Young guy(s): Jalen Smith for sure for salary purposes as well, and them trying out a recent lottery pick. After this we might have to add CamJo. He would be the young player who makes it worthwile for Detroit, and also his salary is also needed as Grant makes 20 mill. Other than him we can only offer Hutchinson - but let's take ourselves a bit more serious than this. We are not Lakers fans...
3. Draftpicks - we don't really have anything good to offer, unless Detroit is crazy about something like a 2027 unprotected first pick and hopes we fall off until then. All of our picks will be late(ish) in the first or the second round until then unless we get terrible injury luck in the coming years.

Not sure why anybody wouldn't have a better offer than that. Not sure why Detroit would do this. I wouldn't if I were them.

*edit: I was bored and played around with the trade machine... One trade that is more realistic for both teams value-wise, but I still wouldn't do becouse of chemistry issues is:

Grant+Corey Joseph for Crowder+Payne+Hutch. Works in the trade machine. We get a better starting PF, and an adequate bench PG. They get some adults in the room, who are actually good vets, on good contracts which expire in time for them to expand their young guys and/or sign somebody meaningful for their young core in 2 years... and they could show the young guys the ropes, while they bottom out this year and next, so a full tanking move for Detroit.

But I think this messes up our team chemistry in the short term, so even this is a no go for me. I like Payne better than this.


I think the key to beating other investors would be that we're trading for him now.... when he's injured. The fact that he's unusable till February is going to scare some teams off. We do it now and can get in before them.

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