The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

Mjee · Post #1461 » by **Mjee** » Thu May 24, 2018 4:35 am

TASTIC wrote:http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=23540047

Jay Williams with a quick vid...Comparing Ayton to Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem and Admiral.

Davis' size with Al Horford's offensive game.

Reaches everywhere.

But I'm still Team Ayton!

Omg, I want Ayton !!!!!!!!

To quote the GOAT, “the ceiling is the roof”

Revived · Post #1462 » by **Revived** » Thu May 24, 2018 4:40 am

Interesting Doncic thread on the GB

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1708811#p66317861

bigfoot · Post #1463 » by **bigfoot** » Thu May 24, 2018 4:55 am

Okay just so you guys know I don't hate Ayton. There is some good stuff here that isn't just Ayton dunk highlights

Watch on YouTube

Post #1464 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu May 24, 2018 5:02 am

bigfoot wrote:Okay just so you guys know I don't hate Ayton. There is some good stuff here that isn't just Ayton dunk highlights

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I've watched all their videos. This Youtuber doesn't have many subs or views but they are really really well done

YouTube · Post #1465 » by **Kerrsed** » Thu May 24, 2018 6:14 am

Revived wrote:Interesting Doncic thread on the GB

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1708811#p66317861

Interesting? I didnt really think so. :dontknow:

jcsunsfan · Post #1466 » by **jcsunsfan** » Thu May 24, 2018 6:42 am

Anyone watching Jason Tatum in the playoffs playing stellar defense? Here was the NBADraft.net main weakness--defensive motor.

Weaknesses: One of the first flaws that jump out in Tatum’s game is his inconsistent intensity on defense ... At times, he seems to just go through the motions defensively and didn't demonstrate the competitive desire to lock his man down.
\\

Post #1467 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu May 24, 2018 7:01 am

jcsunsfan wrote:Anyone watching Jason Tatum in the playoffs playing stellar defense? Here was the NBADraft.net main weakness--defensive motor.

Weaknesses: One of the first flaws that jump out in Tatum’s game is his inconsistent intensity on defense ... At times, he seems to just go through the motions defensively and didn't demonstrate the competitive desire to lock his man down.
\\

Motor is one of the hardest things to fix because it almost requires a total change in personality and attitude. What Stevens has done with that team, instilling personal responsibility, discipline and a legit scheme really helps elevate, maximise and empower his players to play beyond current expected abilities. It's not a case study I would want to use as evidence that motors can be fixed easily.

MrMiyagi · Post #1468 » by **MrMiyagi** » Thu May 24, 2018 7:01 am

jcsunsfan wrote:Anyone watching Jason Tatum in the playoffs playing stellar defense? Here was the NBADraft.net main weakness--defensive motor.

Weaknesses: One of the first flaws that jump out in Tatum’s game is his inconsistent intensity on defense ... At times, he seems to just go through the motions defensively and didn't demonstrate the competitive desire to lock his man down.
\\

While NBADraft.net isn't exactly a great resource, I remember arguing that Tatum was actually a pretty decent defender. I compared his defensive number at Duke to Ayton's last season a while back, because they were similarly playing the 4 spot defending the perimeter quite a bit. DRtg, DWS and DPM were pretty similar.

MrMiyagi · Post #1469 » by **MrMiyagi** » Thu May 24, 2018 7:02 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:Anyone watching Jason Tatum in the playoffs playing stellar defense? Here was the NBADraft.net main weakness--defensive motor.

Weaknesses: One of the first flaws that jump out in Tatum’s game is his inconsistent intensity on defense ... At times, he seems to just go through the motions defensively and didn't demonstrate the competitive desire to lock his man down.
\\

Motor is one of the hardest things to fix because it almost requires a total change in personality and attitude. What Stevens has done with that team, instilling personal responsibility, discipline and a legit scheme really helps elevate, maximise and empower his players to play beyond current expected abilities. It's not a case study I would want to use as evidence that motors can be fixed easily.

I guess it comes down to how much you believe in Kokoskov.

Bob8 · Post #1470 » by **Bob8** » Thu May 24, 2018 7:15 am

jcsunsfan wrote:Anyone watching Jason Tatum in the playoffs playing stellar defense? Here was the NBADraft.net main weakness--defensive motor.

Weaknesses: One of the first flaws that jump out in Tatum’s game is his inconsistent intensity on defense ... At times, he seems to just go through the motions defensively and didn't demonstrate the competitive desire to lock his man down.
\\

Tatum is much more similar to Doncic than Ayton. The most problematic thing about Ayton is not his motor, but lacks of defensive instincts. Shooting can be be improved with repetition, handling can be improved, people can get in much better shape, but instincts are much less likely to be improved. In pick&roll situations there is no time to think. You just have to see it and anticipate it. Kokoskov can teach Ayton basics, but Ayton will still have to take decisions alone in the court. Maybe he is that unaware because he started to play basketball late and had bad coaches, meaning he could improve massively, but at the moment he looks totally lost in the space. If you look his game, he’s taking wrong decisions or he’s taking decisions too late. Athlete like he, should dominate in D. in kids league even with bad motor and playing with half an effort. Game in Nba is that much faster, that his lack of instincts will be even more exposed.

SlovenianDragon · Post #1471 » by **SlovenianDragon** » Thu May 24, 2018 7:29 am

I don't like that doncics 3 point percentage got worse every year...his per 36 has him making 2 out of every 7....

And that's in a league with a smaller 3 point range. Kinda spooky.

Anyways happy with either of them.

But go team Ayton!

Bob8 · Post #1472 » by **Bob8** » Thu May 24, 2018 8:26 am

SlovenianDragon wrote:I don't like that doncics 3 point percentage got worse every year...his per 36 has him making 2 out of every 7....

And that's in a league with a smaller 3 point range. Kinda spooky.

Anyways happy with either of them.

But go team Ayton!

You can hear in this video, what kind of shots he has taken. Only 2 spot up shots from the corner in 250 attempts.

Watch on YouTube

SlovenianDragon · Post #1473 » by **SlovenianDragon** » Thu May 24, 2018 8:43 am

Bob8 wrote:
SlovenianDragon wrote:I don't like that doncics 3 point percentage got worse every year...his per 36 has him making 2 out of every 7....

And that's in a league with a smaller 3 point range. Kinda spooky.

Anyways happy with either of them.

But go team Ayton!

You can hear in this video, what kind of shots he has taken. Only 2 spot up shots from the corner in 250 attempts.

Watch on YouTube

Doncic is a ball handler...How is he going to get a bunch of shots from the corner if hes not playing off the ball? Trying to make him a SG and trade booker? :crazy:

I see holes. To many excuses. And these guys just assuming oh he'll be closer to 40% than 30% after declining every season and coming to the NBA?

Also I like how they said he had to work on his explosivness this summer...Thats not something you learn haha. I dont like those guys I think they are silly.

Bob8 · Post #1474 » by **Bob8** » Thu May 24, 2018 8:50 am

SlovenianDragon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
SlovenianDragon wrote:I don't like that doncics 3 point percentage got worse every year...his per 36 has him making 2 out of every 7....

And that's in a league with a smaller 3 point range. Kinda spooky.

Anyways happy with either of them.

But go team Ayton!

You can hear in this video, what kind of shots he has taken. Only 2 spot up shots from the corner in 250 attempts.

Watch on YouTube

Doncic is a ball handler...How is he going to get a bunch of shots from the corner if hes not playing off the ball? Trying to make him a SG and trade booker?

I see holes. To many excuses. And these guys just assuming oh he'll be closer to 40% than 30% after declining every season and coming to the NBA?

Also I like how they said he had to work on his explosivness this summer...Thats not something you learn haha. I dont like those guys I think they are silly.

I guess Young is much worse 3 points shooter than JJJ and similarly than Ayton?

Anyway, he’s pretty decent off ball player too.

Watch on YouTube

SlovenianDragon · Post #1475 » by **SlovenianDragon** » Thu May 24, 2018 9:02 am

Bob8 wrote:
SlovenianDragon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:

You can hear in this video, what kind of shots he has taken. Only 2 spot up shots from the corner in 250 attempts.

Watch on YouTube

Doncic is a ball handler...How is he going to get a bunch of shots from the corner if hes not playing off the ball? Trying to make him a SG and trade booker?

I see holes. To many excuses. And these guys just assuming oh he'll be closer to 40% than 30% after declining every season and coming to the NBA?

Also I like how they said he had to work on his explosivness this summer...Thats not something you learn haha. I dont like those guys I think they are silly.

I guess Young is much worse 3 points shooter than JJJ and similarly than Ayton?

Anyway, he’s pretty decent off ball player too.

Watch on YouTube

A 30% 3pt shooter off the ball.

You can take highlights and make anyone look like a star. But then you look at the stats and its like EEEEW

His 3pt misses in that video were gross too.

Bob8 · Post #1476 » by **Bob8** » Thu May 24, 2018 9:08 am

SlovenianDragon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
SlovenianDragon wrote:
Doncic is a ball handler...How is he going to get a bunch of shots from the corner if hes not playing off the ball? Trying to make him a SG and trade booker?

I see holes. To many excuses. And these guys just assuming oh he'll be closer to 40% than 30% after declining every season and coming to the NBA?

Also I like how they said he had to work on his explosivness this summer...Thats not something you learn haha. I dont like those guys I think they are silly.

I guess Young is much worse 3 points shooter than JJJ and similarly than Ayton?

Anyway, he’s pretty decent off ball player too.

Watch on YouTube

A 30% 3pt shooter off the ball.

You can take highlights and make anyone loOk like a star. But then you look at the stats and its like EEEEW

31.1 was his owerall 3 points % in Eurobasket. Spot up shooting was around 40%. He was good enough to help winn gold for Slovenia, who was 30:1 before tournament and was selected in first team of Eurobasket.

In EuroLeague he’s shooting 33%. Without half court attempts 35.3%.

http://overbasket.com/rsplayers.php?tab=9&year=2017&pcode=005929&cmp=EL

Btw. your avatar was shooting 25% in Euroleague, being 22 years old.

In Nba he’s shooting 37%.

SlovenianDragon · Post #1477 » by **SlovenianDragon** » Thu May 24, 2018 9:16 am

Bob8 wrote:
SlovenianDragon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
I guess Young is much worse 3 points shooter than JJJ and similarly than Ayton?

Anyway, he’s pretty decent off ball player too.

Watch on YouTube

A 30% 3pt shooter off the ball.

You can take highlights and make anyone loOk like a star. But then you look at the stats and its like EEEEW

31.1 was his owerall 3 points % in Eurobasket. He was good enough to help gold for Slovenia, who was 30:1 before tournament and was selected in first team of Eurobasket.

In EuroLeague he’s shooting 33%. Without half court attempts 35.3%.

http://overbasket.com/rsplayers.php?tab=9&year=2017&pcode=005929&cmp=EL

Btw. your avatar was shooting 25% in Euroleague, being 22 years old. In Nba he’s shooting 37%.

Im happy with either. IMO Doncic is the risky choice and I dont really want another wing whos 3pt may or may not pan out especially at the volume in which he chucks them up there. Kinda want to get the skilled center that I think will take pressure off the wings we already have. We have never had a great center and I think it will help us more.

either or tho. Doncic just spooks me more.

Bob8 · Post #1478 » by **Bob8** » Thu May 24, 2018 9:26 am

SlovenianDragon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
SlovenianDragon wrote:
A 30% 3pt shooter off the ball.

You can take highlights and make anyone loOk like a star. But then you look at the stats and its like EEEEW

31.1 was his owerall 3 points % in Eurobasket. He was good enough to help gold for Slovenia, who was 30:1 before tournament and was selected in first team of Eurobasket.

In EuroLeague he’s shooting 33%. Without half court attempts 35.3%.

http://overbasket.com/rsplayers.php?tab=9&year=2017&pcode=005929&cmp=EL

Btw. your avatar was shooting 25% in Euroleague, being 22 years old. In Nba he’s shooting 37%.

Im happy with either. IMO Doncic is the risky choice and I dont really want another wing whos 3pt may or may not pan out especially at the volume in which he chucks them up there. Kinda want to get the skilled center that I think will take pressure off the wings we already have. We have never had a great center and I think it will help us more.

either or tho. Doncic just spooks me more.

I understand you. But his shooting is really the last problem to worry about. I wouldn’t worry about his overall offensive game either, because in Nba is just that more spacing, rules are much more attackers friendly and Nba became Pick&roll heavy league in last years. All that favors Luka. But for the same reasons he will have much bigger problems in D. than he has in Europe. Fortunately for him, he’s legit 6’8”, 230, with very big frame. With some body conditioning, he will become intimidating big in few years. Meaning he would be able to guard both forward positions. If nothing else, you could put him on less dangerous forward in D.

TheLogician · Post #1479 » by **TheLogician** » Thu May 24, 2018 9:28 am

The Stepien is a joke. They have Mitchell Robinson at #13 and he has no recent game tape and huge character concerns. De'Anthony Melton at #17 has no recent game tape and is a one-way player (great defense but questionable shooting; at best he turns into mini Marcus Smart). Kevin Huerter at #20...enough said.

And of course Ayton at #6 is just nuts. If it were Doncic at #6, half this board would be calling for those citing that website to be banned.

Other LOL-worthy rankings:
Shamorie Ponds at #26 - undersized chucker
Bruce Brown at #32 - old for his class; regressed as a shooter
Jarred Vanderbilt at #35 - missed half the season and didn't even impress

TheLogician · Post #1480 » by **TheLogician** » Thu May 24, 2018 9:37 am

Here's Cole Zwicker of The Stepien on EOTS (top of article): http://arizonasports.com/story/1535612/nba-draft-big-board-5-0-deandre-ayton-luka-doncic/?show=comments#comments

Can someone explain how Doncic was under-utilized if he was Real's best player and has been in the system for four years? Wouldn't the coach know how to use him and how not to use him?

Ayton vs Doncic, Who you picking?