2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[phnart]

Suns are signing OJ Mayo

Why?

[Fo-Real]

Suns are signing OJ Mayo

Don't make jokes like that, "Don't you put that evil on me Rickey Bobby!"

[rcc8884]

I don’t get this love affair with next years cap space. If you have a chance to get a good player at a position need then buck up and do it. Smart would have been a quality addition with a welcomed and infectious demeanor. Going up against the guards in the West game after game will be a defensive challenge. Much rather have a tenacious defender than a .... what we have. Smart was there for the taking. As it is, we’ll likely be looking for a PG soon anyways.

McD is setting himself up to be a sister kisser again in FAgency.

The issue here is not the love affair with next year's cap space, or the willingness of McD to pursue a player, it is whether Marcus Smart is a player worthy of pursuing or not. The answer to that is a simple "no." He is a defensive specialist that will struggle to be effective in any other part of his game. We already have a layer like that for much less cost.

The issue IS cap space. We go the rent a player route and pin our PG hopes on Bermuda. We pass on Smart, Evans, VanVleet, Exum, etc. Sure, most were matchable restricted deals , but you still need to get better. So what do we do???? we over-overpay Ariza ? All to have that cap space next year. BTW, Smart's deal is in line with the league. It will blend right in in a few years. Sure he is limited, but it wouldn't hurt to have perhaps the toughest hard-nosed G in the league, going up against the barrage of western talent softies Knight and Booker will be facing nightly.

I just think 15 mill could of been spent much differently as this is a weirdly constructed team. There were some good players available on 1-2-3 year deals. Guys who are better than what we have. There were some good values to be had, especially later. Also, It wouldn't hurt to have cap space this year to trade. But this FO seems afraid to win. They have gotten disgustingly comfortable with their future schemes and seem to be placing all hope on signing another 'max' deal guy by preserving future cap space. Meanwhile they keep fingers crossed hoping one of this slew of kids can emerge be a solid enough player to warrant a second contract. Signing Ariza clearly indicated this season is bagged and tagged, ready to 'wait till next year'

McDangerThinICE bought himself one more year with his masterful tank job. Im betting he'll try to parlay another one, convincing Server were not but one superstar away and we are strategically positioned to buy one. If history displays anything, McDismal's
success in the FA market is mediocre at best and arguably, the root of our demise. Yet thats what we are banking on ?
Oh Brother.

I mean, would you really rather be a team who signed Smart or Evens or someone like that who will give us a max of 5 more wins then season but then leave us stuck in mediocracy? At least Ariza has the potential to provide long-term value with him playing and teaching during practice. He can also help Koko set up his offensive system and get the young guys going.

I'm not a fan of the signing but looking back, there wasn't really anything better than maybe signing Randle to a 2-year deal. I don't want to sign someone who will give us 5 more wins, leave next year, and leave us in mediocracy like the Hornets or something. I would much rather play the long game then be the 8 seed of the next 4 years.

[rcc8884]

Suns are signing OJ Mayo

Not cool man...although you did get me to spend 5 minutes googling this

[MrMiyagi]

Yeah Miyag, I'm guess Im just in the cranky phase as I realize this team is still extra mediocre, and that those Incredibly middling players would be improvements at PG and PF, and that we are already playing for next year....Again.
I feel you have never met the 'Happy Frank"

Here is a breakdown of Free Agents next yr...... https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/7/30/17616436/nba-free-agency-2019-list-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving. This is what you are holding out for ?

next yr when several teams will have max space, some teams enough cap room to sign almost a big three straight out... LA, NY, and build your own colluded team in Brooklyn..... certainly destination cities.

and McDumbo flying in with his less than stellar reputation to snag 'the finalizing piece' to add to his tear down/melt down/break down Rebuild. Trying to convince 'stars' to join his circus, rather than run off to the big cities. I don't have a lot of hope in that scenario. We'll be left sweeping the stalls once again... staring down the inevitable over pay, unless of course, some big turnarounds occur.



Yeah Nevets, I thought about that... trade value.... and as always, when you are dealing an expiring deal for an aspiring one, you have to put some make up on it.... May be there is a deal out there, just waiting until the untradable clause to drop off new signees. But that is going to upset the CapSpaceCart. And who are these players ? DLo ? Love ? And who are our offerings ? Chandler, Ariza ? Bender? Chris ? Warren? Jackson ? Wouldn't Julius Randal been more tradable / valuable? Tyreke ? What value does Warren/Chandler/first round Pick have ? Or Warren/Bender/Pick ? I expect a deal, as McDwindle's time here directly tied to the immediate improvement of this team. But yet again, outside of TJ, we have little to offer other than picks and flailing prospects. Grumble grumble grumble



So, sorry about the sourness.... I should be used to this off season three ring routine and the ongoing 20 clowns in a car roster shuffle. Just better get some cotton candy and enjoy the Phnx version of cirque du soleil. At least we have some new acts.



May be one starring McDareDevil himself....

I'm personally not banking the future of our team on landing a big "impact" free agent. Players will go wherever they want to go, so there's no reason to pin our hopes on guys coming here.

I like our young guys. I think given time, Booker, Ayton, Bridges, TJ and some combination of Bender/Chriss/Okobo/Reed will become a very good team. Sure, we might need to grab a point guard or a power forward, but I would still like to see our young guys play out their rookie deals before declaring them busts, and I don't feel like "sitting out" this free agency hurt us at all. Guys like Smart, VanVleet, Exum, etc. will be around next offseason (Patrick Beverly, Spencer Dinwiddie, Terry Rozier, Delon Wright, TJ McConnell, Milos Teodosic).

[bwgood77]

Yeah Miyag, I'm guess Im just in the cranky phase as I realize this team is still extra mediocre, and that those Incredibly middling players would be improvements at PG and PF, and that we are already playing for next year....Again.
I feel you have never met the 'Happy Frank"

Here is a breakdown of Free Agents next yr...... https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/7/30/17616436/nba-free-agency-2019-list-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving. This is what you are holding out for ?

next yr when several teams will have max space, some teams enough cap room to sign almost a big three straight out... LA, NY, and build your own colluded team in Brooklyn..... certainly destination cities.

and McDumbo flying in with his less than stellar reputation to snag 'the finalizing piece' to add to his tear down/melt down/break down Rebuild. Trying to convince 'stars' to join his circus, rather than run off to the big cities. I don't have a lot of hope in that scenario. We'll be left sweeping the stalls once again... staring down the inevitable over pay, unless of course, some big turnarounds occur.



Yeah Nevets, I thought about that... trade value.... and as always, when you are dealing an expiring deal for an aspiring one, you have to put some make up on it.... May be there is a deal out there, just waiting until the untradable clause to drop off new signees. But that is going to upset the CapSpaceCart. And who are these players ? DLo ? Love ? And who are our offerings ? Chandler, Ariza ? Bender? Chris ? Warren? Jackson ? Wouldn't Julius Randal been more tradable / valuable? Tyreke ? What value does Warren/Chandler/first round Pick have ? Or Warren/Bender/Pick ? I expect a deal, as McDwindle's time here directly tied to the immediate improvement of this team. But yet again, outside of TJ, we have little to offer other than picks and flailing prospects. Grumble grumble grumble



So, sorry about the sourness.... I should be used to this off season three ring routine and the ongoing 20 clowns in a car roster shuffle. Just better get some cotton candy and enjoy the Phnx version of cirque du soleil. At least we have some new acts.



May be one starring McDareDevil himself....

I'm personally not banking the future of our team on landing a big "impact" free agent. Players will go wherever they want to go, so there's no reason to pin our hopes on guys coming here.

I like our young guys. I think given time, Booker, Ayton, Bridges, TJ and some combination of Bender/Chriss/Okobo/Reed will become a very good team. Sure, we might need to grab a point guard or a power forward, but I would still like to see our young guys play out their rookie deals before declaring them busts, and I don't feel like "sitting out" this free agency hurt us at all. Guys like Smart, VanVleet, Exum, etc. will be around next offseason (Patrick Beverly, Spencer Dinwiddie, Terry Rozier, Delon Wright, TJ McConnell, Milos Teodosic).

Yeah, I've always advocating for building through the draft and organically because banking on a major free agent signing or trading for a star is pretty far fetched and rarely happens unless the star has shown interest in wanting to go there and/or a team is already close to being a contender.

Of course with the approach of building through the draft you have to nail your picks, and the jury is still out on most all of them as far as whether or not they can be major impact players. McD never having been an analytics guy sometimes makes the team assembly look strange too, as well as put as at the bottom of analytics offensively and defensively.

It seems like they talked about balancing the roster a lot in the offseason, and it feels a little more imbalanced, even though I like all the players added.

[lilfishi22]

I don't think it's about banking on a major FA signing or a trade. It's doing both. I think it's equally far fetched and it's rare for 2 or even 1 of your draftees to pan out and turn your team into a contender. We've seen teams in the past like OKC come close, we've seen the Brandon Roy Blazers come close, we've seen Philly getting there but look at the other teams that's tried to just go through one singular route. The Wolves had two #1 picks (1 via trade) in Wiggins and KAT and still needed to a Jimmy Butler trade to get them to the playoffs and give them a shot at more. The Boston C's had some good home grown talent in Smart, Rozier, Brown and now Tatum but I don't think that was a squad with the high level potential they have now after trading for Kyrie and signing Hayward. Even the Sixers has two guys who are as close to being superstars at this stage in their careers and they were going hard at trying to sign that 3rd star.

You have to be very lucky for half of your high draftees to pan out and generally it's extremely rare to grab 1 or even 2 potential superstars. I think (not confidently) we potentially have 2 in Booker and Ayton but Ayton in particular is still a giant question mark. Booker will need to really take his game to another level to impact the game like Embiid had in his 4th season in the league.

That being said, it's not as simple as signing any player to a max deal and calling him the 3rd star. The only team that unquestionably have seen legitimate success going down the route of growing organically is the Warriors. They were already legit contenders even without KD and with KD, it's cemented them as perennial contenders. The thing they did well is when they were real close to reaching their ceiling, they maxed out the right guy (KD) while everyone else was spending big in 2016 on undeserving players. While everyone out here were maxing out or handing out big deals to undeserving players in the offseason in 2016, they kept their focus on making the right play, not the play out of necessity.

This offseason we could have been like one of those teams in 2016 using most of our cap space to sign your Randles, Smarts, FVV and Capela's to long term deals. As good as these players are if you're making a long term commitment, you want them to have real star potential because with the money you're guaranteeing you need them to be that 3rd star and I don't see it in any of these guys. And that's why I'm not mad with this offseason, the options weren't there and I'd rather take a backseat this offseason and not try and overpay an underserving guy and try to sell him as your 3rd star when clearly they aren't.

[NavLDO]

I do not want him to make a trade because it will be a trade where we give up assets for a mediocre player on a big contract where McD is trying to save his job. I would rather us just not do anything but let Booker and others get a year older and wait for the Warriors to fall apart over the next two years. No reason to trade assets to get the 8 seed in the playoffs to lose to the Warriors then set us up in another downward spiral

Do you not see that this is what McD has just done, but via FA, rather than a Trade--signing a 'a mediocre player on a big contract', and by big contract, I mean an overpay for one year rental services? $15M for a slightly above average player on the downside of his career? As Frank like to asks, 'where have we seen this before'?

I agree with you, though. What's the point, at this point? McD has already screwed the pooch for this season. He's done nothing but set us up for next year's FA.

But 'riddle me this, Batman', how many QUALITY FAs are going to want to come to a Suns' team that has sucked again, and has made no head-way toward being a real contender? If Igor is smart, he'll do whatever it takes to get Bridges, Ayton, and/or JJ to be on the 'Booker' development-path--meaning, making sure all three, or at least two of them, look like legit up-and-coming star starters by the end of this season; that's his only hope in attaining FA interest next off-season. Starting Ariza for more than the 1st 20 games or so this season will be a major mistake, IMO, because all of these guys need to look like, again, on the Booker, or even Warren development sked, rather than the Chriss or Bender development plan.

If McD can get Bridges to look like the 3&D player everyone thinks he can be, posting something in the 15/4/3 realm with outstanding defensive numbers; and get Ayton to be the 20/10 Starter he's capable of being, then maybe we have a shot at getting a star PG and/or PF in here next season.

I know this is broken record but what would have made you content with this past offseason? Were there any FA's or players to trade for that would have made you consider this offseason a success (serious question)

I'm OK with where things stand. Going after Leonard would have been too risky.
Ariza has been a winning player nearly his whole career. He is still a really good player and will contribute on this team. He probably doesn't come to Phoenix on a deal for his true value.

I wanted Smart but we would have had to overpay for him and that would have strapped us.
I believe McD is still going after a powerplay. By the end of next year, unless we get the top pick, I expect us to push the chips in and make a big move for someone. If free agents don't want to come here next summer, it means Booker has regressed and that our rookies are garbage. In other words, we have bigger issues to worry about.

Going after a legit PG, since we decided not to keep Payton.

If McD would have shown the same willingness to 'overpay', I believe we would have acquired Lillard, Wall, Rondo, Lowry, or Dinwiddie. but honestly, keeping the player who had a top 12 AP48 last year for $3M might have been smart.

I'll echo your broken record, but EP was NOT our problem last year, and the fact that we gave up on him...choosing to believe he was the player of his last 9 games with us, rather than the player that was his first 10 games with us, was foolish. he proved he could be successful on this team, then hit a slump...either intentional (Tanking) or not, but the faact of the matter is, aall the arguments I see here AGAINST EP, start and end with his final 9-10 games with us, conveniently disregarding the first 7-8 games.

So yes, he did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#291-300-sum:pgl_basic

...but he also did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#282-289-sum:pgl_basic

Only 17.1 Pts/ 7.5 Asst / 7.5 TRB on 49%FG , which included his subpar 29% 3PT shooting, but we knew he had issue with that from the get-go.

Anyway, point is, McD chose to overpay for a slightly above avg 3&D 32YO, when we just drafted a 3&D specialist in the Top10, choosing not to give him an opportunity to prove himself. Apparently you and others believe that was a smart idea, but IMO, we don't even know if Ariza will be helpful or hurtful, and if you don;t think Ariza presents a gamble, then I don;t know what to tell you. 41% FG% and 37% 3PT% are not stellar numbers. A DRtg of 107 and DBPM of .7 are hardly 'eye-popping' numbers.

So, you, but most likely others, will want to point to how he presents more than what the stat line tells you; well, I say that is bogus. Ariza is not 'all that and a bag of chips'. LeBron has his number, and has his entire career. I'm sure the response will be that everyone is susceptible to LeBron embarrassment, and while that is true, my point is, Ariza is nothing special.

[BobbieL]

Do you not see that this is what McD has just done, but via FA, rather than a Trade--signing a 'a mediocre player on a big contract', and by big contract, I mean an overpay for one year rental services? $15M for a slightly above average player on the downside of his career? As Frank like to asks, 'where have we seen this before'?

I agree with you, though. What's the point, at this point? McD has already screwed the pooch for this season. He's done nothing but set us up for next year's FA.

But 'riddle me this, Batman', how many QUALITY FAs are going to want to come to a Suns' team that has sucked again, and has made no head-way toward being a real contender? If Igor is smart, he'll do whatever it takes to get Bridges, Ayton, and/or JJ to be on the 'Booker' development-path--meaning, making sure all three, or at least two of them, look like legit up-and-coming star starters by the end of this season; that's his only hope in attaining FA interest next off-season. Starting Ariza for more than the 1st 20 games or so this season will be a major mistake, IMO, because all of these guys need to look like, again, on the Booker, or even Warren development sked, rather than the Chriss or Bender development plan.

If McD can get Bridges to look like the 3&D player everyone thinks he can be, posting something in the 15/4/3 realm with outstanding defensive numbers; and get Ayton to be the 20/10 Starter he's capable of being, then maybe we have a shot at getting a star PG and/or PF in here next season.

I know this is broken record but what would have made you content with this past offseason? Were there any FA's or players to trade for that would have made you consider this offseason a success (serious question)

I'm OK with where things stand. Going after Leonard would have been too risky.
Ariza has been a winning player nearly his whole career. He is still a really good player and will contribute on this team. He probably doesn't come to Phoenix on a deal for his true value.

I wanted Smart but we would have had to overpay for him and that would have strapped us.
I believe McD is still going after a powerplay. By the end of next year, unless we get the top pick, I expect us to push the chips in and make a big move for someone. If free agents don't want to come here next summer, it means Booker has regressed and that our rookies are garbage. In other words, we have bigger issues to worry about.

Going after a legit PG, since we decided not to keep Payton.

If McD would have shown the same willingness to 'overpay', I believe we would have acquired Lillard, Wall, Rondo, Lowry, or Dinwiddie. but honestly, keeping the player who had a top 12 AP48 last year for $3M might have been smart.

I'll echo your broken record, but EP was NOT our problem last year, and the fact that we gave up on him...choosing to believe he was the player of his last 9 games with us, rather than the player that was his first 10 games with us, was foolish. he proved he could be successful on this team, then hit a slump...either intentional (Tanking) or not, but the faact of the matter is, aall the arguments I see here AGAINST EP, start and end with his final 9-10 games with us, conveniently disregarding the first 7-8 games.

So yes, he did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#291-300-sum:pgl_basic

...but he also did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#282-289-sum:pgl_basic

Only 17.1 Pts/ 7.5 Asst / 7.5 TRB on 49%FG , which included his subpar 29% 3PT shooting, but we knew he had issue with that from the get-go.

Anyway, point is, McD chose to overpay for a slightly above avg 3&D 32YO, when we just drafted a 3&D specialist in the Top10, choosing not to give him an opportunity to prove himself. Apparently you and others believe that was a smart idea, but IMO, we don't even know if Ariza will be helpful or hurtful, and if you don;t think Ariza presents a gamble, then I don;t know what to tell you. 41% FG% and 37% 3PT% are not stellar numbers. A DRtg of 107 and DBPM of .7 are hardly 'eye-popping' numbers.

So, you, but most likely others, will want to point to how he presents more than what the stat line tells you; well, I say that is bogus. Ariza is not 'all that and a bag of chips'. LeBron has his number, and has his entire career. I'm sure the response will be that everyone is susceptible to LeBron embarrassment, and while that is true, my point is, Ariza is nothing special.

Lowry was never an option once Kawhi wasan option. But I floated Lowry's name

Wall - that contract is horrible - next

Rondo - at 9m - for sure would have taken him over Ariza but was he interested even at say 15m - but I think he would have helped the team more

You are right - I am a bit surprised at the lack of PG

Dinwiddie - I mentioned both he and Lin . I thought Lin for Chandler might have worked after they bought out Howard.

[stoo]

i have just read that suns were interested (sent an offer) for alexey shved, as told by his agent. don't have an info on when that happened

[King4Day]

I know this is broken record but what would have made you content with this past offseason? Were there any FA's or players to trade for that would have made you consider this offseason a success (serious question)

I'm OK with where things stand. Going after Leonard would have been too risky.
Ariza has been a winning player nearly his whole career. He is still a really good player and will contribute on this team. He probably doesn't come to Phoenix on a deal for his true value.

I wanted Smart but we would have had to overpay for him and that would have strapped us.
I believe McD is still going after a powerplay. By the end of next year, unless we get the top pick, I expect us to push the chips in and make a big move for someone. If free agents don't want to come here next summer, it means Booker has regressed and that our rookies are garbage. In other words, we have bigger issues to worry about.

Going after a legit PG, since we decided not to keep Payton.

If McD would have shown the same willingness to 'overpay', I believe we would have acquired Lillard, Wall, Rondo, Lowry, or Dinwiddie. but honestly, keeping the player who had a top 12 AP48 last year for $3M might have been smart.

I'll echo your broken record, but EP was NOT our problem last year, and the fact that we gave up on him...choosing to believe he was the player of his last 9 games with us, rather than the player that was his first 10 games with us, was foolish. he proved he could be successful on this team, then hit a slump...either intentional (Tanking) or not, but the faact of the matter is, aall the arguments I see here AGAINST EP, start and end with his final 9-10 games with us, conveniently disregarding the first 7-8 games.

So yes, he did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#291-300-sum:pgl_basic

...but he also did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#282-289-sum:pgl_basic

Only 17.1 Pts/ 7.5 Asst / 7.5 TRB on 49%FG , which included his subpar 29% 3PT shooting, but we knew he had issue with that from the get-go.

Anyway, point is, McD chose to overpay for a slightly above avg 3&D 32YO, when we just drafted a 3&D specialist in the Top10, choosing not to give him an opportunity to prove himself. Apparently you and others believe that was a smart idea, but IMO, we don't even know if Ariza will be helpful or hurtful, and if you don;t think Ariza presents a gamble, then I don;t know what to tell you. 41% FG% and 37% 3PT% are not stellar numbers. A DRtg of 107 and DBPM of .7 are hardly 'eye-popping' numbers.

So, you, but most likely others, will want to point to how he presents more than what the stat line tells you; well, I say that is bogus. Ariza is not 'all that and a bag of chips'. LeBron has his number, and has his entire career. I'm sure the response will be that everyone is susceptible to LeBron embarrassment, and while that is true, my point is, Ariza is nothing special.

Lowry was never an option once Kawhi wasan option. But I floated Lowry's name

Wall - that contract is horrible - next

Rondo - at 9m - for sure would have taken him over Ariza but was he interested even at say 15m - but I think he would have helped the team more

You are right - I am a bit surprised at the lack of PG

Dinwiddie - I mentioned both he and Lin . I thought Lin for Chandler might have worked after they bought out Howard.

Great feedback Nav!

Regarding the Rondo comment above, I never thought about offering him the same deal instead of Ariza. I can't imagine he would have turned down 15mil for one year to play here. My guess is, his personality is why we chose not to make a run at him. But we most def would have been better with him.

[King4Day]

i have just read that suns were interested (sent an offer) for alexey shved, as told by his agent. don't have an info on when that happened

Where was he last? I remember the name but not much more about him.
This was probably before our moves. I don't see us making any more changes barring an injury.

[Saberestar]

i have just read that suns were interested (sent an offer) for alexey shved, as told by his agent. don't have an info on when that happened

Where was he last? I remember the name but not much more about him.
This was probably before our moves. I don't see us making any more changes barring an injury.

Shved’s agent Obrad Fimic told HoopsHype why the dynamic combo guard has chosen not to take any offers, one of which was a $4 million deal for one season.

“Every year there’s active interest for Alexey from NBA teams,” said Obrad Fimic. “This summer, New Orleans, Minnesota, Memphis and Phoenix expressed a willingness to sign him.”

“Next year, Alexey will still be under contract with Khimki, but we’ll be carefully considering offers from the NBA,”, said Fimic.

“Everyone says the NBA team will have more available money next summer. Therefore, the probability of his departure will increase”

https://clutchpoints.com/nba-news-pelicans-timberwolves-grizzlies-suns-made-contract-offers-to-alexey-shved/

[bwgood77]

i have just read that suns were interested (sent an offer) for alexey shved, as told by his agent. don't have an info on when that happened

Where was he last? I remember the name but not much more about him.
This was probably before our moves. I don't see us making any more changes barring an injury.

He was the leading scorer in euroleague, at almost 22 ppg, and averaged 5.2 apg and 1.3 spg.

https://basketball.realgm.com/international/league/1/Euroleague/stats/2018/Averages/Qualified/All/points/All/desc/1/Regular_Season

[bigfoot]

Do you not see that this is what McD has just done, but via FA, rather than a Trade--signing a 'a mediocre player on a big contract', and by big contract, I mean an overpay for one year rental services? $15M for a slightly above average player on the downside of his career? As Frank like to asks, 'where have we seen this before'?

I agree with you, though. What's the point, at this point? McD has already screwed the pooch for this season. He's done nothing but set us up for next year's FA.

But 'riddle me this, Batman', how many QUALITY FAs are going to want to come to a Suns' team that has sucked again, and has made no head-way toward being a real contender? If Igor is smart, he'll do whatever it takes to get Bridges, Ayton, and/or JJ to be on the 'Booker' development-path--meaning, making sure all three, or at least two of them, look like legit up-and-coming star starters by the end of this season; that's his only hope in attaining FA interest next off-season. Starting Ariza for more than the 1st 20 games or so this season will be a major mistake, IMO, because all of these guys need to look like, again, on the Booker, or even Warren development sked, rather than the Chriss or Bender development plan.

If McD can get Bridges to look like the 3&D player everyone thinks he can be, posting something in the 15/4/3 realm with outstanding defensive numbers; and get Ayton to be the 20/10 Starter he's capable of being, then maybe we have a shot at getting a star PG and/or PF in here next season.

I know this is broken record but what would have made you content with this past offseason? Were there any FA's or players to trade for that would have made you consider this offseason a success (serious question)

I'm OK with where things stand. Going after Leonard would have been too risky.
Ariza has been a winning player nearly his whole career. He is still a really good player and will contribute on this team. He probably doesn't come to Phoenix on a deal for his true value.

I wanted Smart but we would have had to overpay for him and that would have strapped us.
I believe McD is still going after a powerplay. By the end of next year, unless we get the top pick, I expect us to push the chips in and make a big move for someone. If free agents don't want to come here next summer, it means Booker has regressed and that our rookies are garbage. In other words, we have bigger issues to worry about.

Going after a legit PG, since we decided not to keep Payton.

If McD would have shown the same willingness to 'overpay', I believe we would have acquired Lillard, Wall, Rondo, Lowry, or Dinwiddie. but honestly, keeping the player who had a top 12 AP48 last year for $3M might have been smart.

I'll echo your broken record, but EP was NOT our problem last year, and the fact that we gave up on him...choosing to believe he was the player of his last 9 games with us, rather than the player that was his first 10 games with us, was foolish. he proved he could be successful on this team, then hit a slump...either intentional (Tanking) or not, but the faact of the matter is, aall the arguments I see here AGAINST EP, start and end with his final 9-10 games with us, conveniently disregarding the first 7-8 games.

So yes, he did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#291-300-sum:pgl_basic

...but he also did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#282-289-sum:pgl_basic

Only 17.1 Pts/ 7.5 Asst / 7.5 TRB on 49%FG , which included his subpar 29% 3PT shooting, but we knew he had issue with that from the get-go.

Anyway, point is, McD chose to overpay for a slightly above avg 3&D 32YO, when we just drafted a 3&D specialist in the Top10, choosing not to give him an opportunity to prove himself. Apparently you and others believe that was a smart idea, but IMO, we don't even know if Ariza will be helpful or hurtful, and if you don;t think Ariza presents a gamble, then I don;t know what to tell you. 41% FG% and 37% 3PT% are not stellar numbers. A DRtg of 107 and DBPM of .7 are hardly 'eye-popping' numbers.

So, you, but most likely others, will want to point to how he presents more than what the stat line tells you; well, I say that is bogus. Ariza is not 'all that and a bag of chips'. LeBron has his number, and has his entire career. I'm sure the response will be that everyone is susceptible to LeBron embarrassment, and while that is true, my point is, Ariza is nothing special.

Facts

1) Suns were the worst defensive team last year
2) Suns were the worst 3 point shooting team last year
3) Payton was a poor three point shooter and suspect defender
4) Ulis was a terrible defender and poor three point shooter
5) Jackson and Warren are poor three point shooters
6) Ariza is a good three point shooter and a plus defender
7) Bridges is a good three point shooter and a plus defender
8) Knight is a good three point shooter

Simply put McD jettisoned the players that were both poor three point shooters and defenders. He also drafted and signed players that were both good defenders and three point shooters. Players like Rondo would have been a bad get because of his three point shooting. Starting Rondo and Jackson/Warren would have killed spacing for Booker. With more legitimate 3-D players we can now spread the floor and give more room for Booker, Warren, Knight, and Ayton to operate.

[grumpysaddle]

Rondo would have been terrible for this team.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Rondo would have been terrible for this team.

I think there's a better chance that Knight turns into a replacement-level defender than that Rondo turns into a replacement-level shooter, fwiw.

So many questions for the team this year. How will Koko's schemes affect player performance? How many games out of 82 will Deandre look like a #1 pick-type talent? Do Booker and Warren have extra gears? Will the real Josh Jackson please stand up? What is a Brandon Knight? Can Bender put up some numbers already? Will Quese hold the all-time record for career missed dunks after only three seasons? Can Shaq maintain this level of play for a whole season? How often can we expect Mikal Bridges to disappear in games? How big a difference will Ariza make? Should we have gone for Melton over Okobo?

[lilfishi22]

Do you not see that this is what McD has just done, but via FA, rather than a Trade--signing a 'a mediocre player on a big contract', and by big contract, I mean an overpay for one year rental services? $15M for a slightly above average player on the downside of his career? As Frank like to asks, 'where have we seen this before'?

I agree with you, though. What's the point, at this point? McD has already screwed the pooch for this season. He's done nothing but set us up for next year's FA.

But 'riddle me this, Batman', how many QUALITY FAs are going to want to come to a Suns' team that has sucked again, and has made no head-way toward being a real contender? If Igor is smart, he'll do whatever it takes to get Bridges, Ayton, and/or JJ to be on the 'Booker' development-path--meaning, making sure all three, or at least two of them, look like legit up-and-coming star starters by the end of this season; that's his only hope in attaining FA interest next off-season. Starting Ariza for more than the 1st 20 games or so this season will be a major mistake, IMO, because all of these guys need to look like, again, on the Booker, or even Warren development sked, rather than the Chriss or Bender development plan.

If McD can get Bridges to look like the 3&D player everyone thinks he can be, posting something in the 15/4/3 realm with outstanding defensive numbers; and get Ayton to be the 20/10 Starter he's capable of being, then maybe we have a shot at getting a star PG and/or PF in here next season.

I know this is broken record but what would have made you content with this past offseason? Were there any FA's or players to trade for that would have made you consider this offseason a success (serious question)

I'm OK with where things stand. Going after Leonard would have been too risky.
Ariza has been a winning player nearly his whole career. He is still a really good player and will contribute on this team. He probably doesn't come to Phoenix on a deal for his true value.

I wanted Smart but we would have had to overpay for him and that would have strapped us.
I believe McD is still going after a powerplay. By the end of next year, unless we get the top pick, I expect us to push the chips in and make a big move for someone. If free agents don't want to come here next summer, it means Booker has regressed and that our rookies are garbage. In other words, we have bigger issues to worry about.

Going after a legit PG, since we decided not to keep Payton.

If McD would have shown the same willingness to 'overpay', I believe we would have acquired Lillard, Wall, Rondo, Lowry, or Dinwiddie. but honestly, keeping the player who had a top 12 AP48 last year for $3M might have been smart.

I'll echo your broken record, but EP was NOT our problem last year, and the fact that we gave up on him...choosing to believe he was the player of his last 9 games with us, rather than the player that was his first 10 games with us, was foolish. he proved he could be successful on this team, then hit a slump...either intentional (Tanking) or not, but the faact of the matter is, aall the arguments I see here AGAINST EP, start and end with his final 9-10 games with us, conveniently disregarding the first 7-8 games.

So yes, he did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#291-300-sum:pgl_basic

...but he also did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#282-289-sum:pgl_basic

Only 17.1 Pts/ 7.5 Asst / 7.5 TRB on 49%FG , which included his subpar 29% 3PT shooting, but we knew he had issue with that from the get-go.

Anyway, point is, McD chose to overpay for a slightly above avg 3&D 32YO, when we just drafted a 3&D specialist in the Top10, choosing not to give him an opportunity to prove himself. Apparently you and others believe that was a smart idea, but IMO, we don't even know if Ariza will be helpful or hurtful, and if you don;t think Ariza presents a gamble, then I don;t know what to tell you. 41% FG% and 37% 3PT% are not stellar numbers. A DRtg of 107 and DBPM of .7 are hardly 'eye-popping' numbers.

So, you, but most likely others, will want to point to how he presents more than what the stat line tells you; well, I say that is bogus. Ariza is not 'all that and a bag of chips'. LeBron has his number, and has his entire career. I'm sure the response will be that everyone is susceptible to LeBron embarrassment, and while that is true, my point is, Ariza is nothing special.

Who?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/point-guard/

You're connecting the signing of Ariza as the reason for us being 'unable' to sign a 'legit' PG when they are completely separate matters. And LOL at "Lebron has his number". Which player does Lebron not have their number? He wasn't signed to be a Lebron stopper or a KD stopper or a Harden stopper. He was signed to be a stretch wing and to bring real defensive leadership. Even if we signed him to a 1yr vet minimum, it wouldn't change the fact that the PG market was complete trash.

For the record, you have no idea what conversations McD had in regards to trades for guys like Lillard and Lowry. You don't know what was offered and what was demanded so you can't just assume McD simply didn't want to 'overpay'. And it's SO EASY to just say, we should've gotten this guy from this team because they are good and we need a PG. It takes two to tango.

Payton wasn't the problem but he was far from the solution. Also you can't equate Payton signing with New Orleans (his hometown) to him agreeing to sign with us for the same amount. It doesn't work that way.

[bwgood77]

I know this is broken record but what would have made you content with this past offseason? Were there any FA's or players to trade for that would have made you consider this offseason a success (serious question)

I'm OK with where things stand. Going after Leonard would have been too risky.
Ariza has been a winning player nearly his whole career. He is still a really good player and will contribute on this team. He probably doesn't come to Phoenix on a deal for his true value.

I wanted Smart but we would have had to overpay for him and that would have strapped us.
I believe McD is still going after a powerplay. By the end of next year, unless we get the top pick, I expect us to push the chips in and make a big move for someone. If free agents don't want to come here next summer, it means Booker has regressed and that our rookies are garbage. In other words, we have bigger issues to worry about.

Going after a legit PG, since we decided not to keep Payton.

If McD would have shown the same willingness to 'overpay', I believe we would have acquired Lillard, Wall, Rondo, Lowry, or Dinwiddie. but honestly, keeping the player who had a top 12 AP48 last year for $3M might have been smart.

I'll echo your broken record, but EP was NOT our problem last year, and the fact that we gave up on him...choosing to believe he was the player of his last 9 games with us, rather than the player that was his first 10 games with us, was foolish. he proved he could be successful on this team, then hit a slump...either intentional (Tanking) or not, but the faact of the matter is, aall the arguments I see here AGAINST EP, start and end with his final 9-10 games with us, conveniently disregarding the first 7-8 games.

So yes, he did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#291-300-sum:pgl_basic

...but he also did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#282-289-sum:pgl_basic

Only 17.1 Pts/ 7.5 Asst / 7.5 TRB on 49%FG , which included his subpar 29% 3PT shooting, but we knew he had issue with that from the get-go.

Anyway, point is, McD chose to overpay for a slightly above avg 3&D 32YO, when we just drafted a 3&D specialist in the Top10, choosing not to give him an opportunity to prove himself. Apparently you and others believe that was a smart idea, but IMO, we don't even know if Ariza will be helpful or hurtful, and if you don;t think Ariza presents a gamble, then I don;t know what to tell you. 41% FG% and 37% 3PT% are not stellar numbers. A DRtg of 107 and DBPM of .7 are hardly 'eye-popping' numbers.

So, you, but most likely others, will want to point to how he presents more than what the stat line tells you; well, I say that is bogus. Ariza is not 'all that and a bag of chips'. LeBron has his number, and has his entire career. I'm sure the response will be that everyone is susceptible to LeBron embarrassment, and while that is true, my point is, Ariza is nothing special.

Who?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/point-guard/

You're connecting the signing of Ariza as the reason for us being 'unable' to sign a 'legit' PG when they are completely separate matters. And LOL at "Lebron has his number". Which player does Lebron not have their number? He wasn't signed to be a Lebron stopper or a KD stopper or a Harden stopper. He was signed to be a stretch wing and to bring real defensive leadership. Even if we signed him to a 1yr vet minimum, it wouldn't change the fact that the PG market was complete trash.

For the record, you have no idea what conversations McD had in regards to trades for guys like Lillard and Lowry. You don't know what was offered and what was demanded so you can't just assume McD simply didn't want to 'overpay'. And it's SO EASY to just say, we should've gotten this guy from this team because they are good and we need a PG. It takes two to tango.

Payton wasn't the problem but he was far from the solution. Also you can't equate Payton signing with New Orleans (his hometown) to him agreeing to sign with us for the same amount. It doesn't work that way.

Lillard wasn't going anywhere, and neither was Lowry. Lowry was a slight possibility if they don't get Kawhi, but far fetched considering they were the 1 seed, he was their best player and LeBron went west. The Blazers are a team that isn't going to tank/rebuild, and is a team that was the 3 seed with Lillard as the face of their franchise. The guy was 1st team all NBA. They have a ton of wings...they going to trade him for Warren, Bender and a pick? Heck, you can throw in Jackson and a 1st and it's still not enough. One of our best assets was the Miami pick, and it was only worth moving up 6 spots in the draft.

[Mischa]

I wish Kerrsed would update us on how he is doing