Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[bwgood77]

If I am McD I say "no way Kieff. We know what kind of player you are and we are not giving you away. If you want out of here you better play well enough for us to get a good offer. Otherwise you can sit on the end of the bench or be suspended for contract detrimental to the team."

I would say "Nobody wants you. They see the way you pout and get techs and stuff. Believe me, we'd love to trade you, but no one wants you. Do you think you can come and ball with a good attitude so we can actually trade your ass?"

[bwgood77]

The Morris twins are punks, but you can’t say the Suns didn’t really screw this entire rebuild up.

The 2013-2014 team overachieved at the worst possible time and we ended up missing out on a high lottery pick in a great draft. Yes, we did snag TJ Warren who could be a steal, but I’d still rather have had a shot at Wiggins.

Following the 2013-2014 season, we botch the Bledsoe negotiations, let Frye walk, and instead use Frye’s money to get IT. I remember thinking at the time that we would have been better off with Frye then IT at the same price. Additionally, we possibly could have extended Dragic if the Bledsoe negotiations hadn’t taken so long.

Only weeks into the season we could see that the 3 PG lineup would be an issue. We could have shipped out IT right away to give him a better opportunity elsewhere and gotten a decent return, but instead we held on. By midseason the happiness that the Morris twins and Dragic brothers displayed during training camp were gone and the team culture was toxic. We again could have shipped out IT to appease Dragic but we didn’t. This is the BIGGEST mistake we made. It ended up costing us our best player AND best asset (the Laker pick). By the way, the Lakers will be terrible again this year and that pick could still be top 7. If we had kept Frye instead of getting IT we probably would have made the playoffs.


This summer we go “all in” to try to get LMA and end up trading away Mook to make room. Additionally, Keef has to know we were going to replace him with LMA and either trade him to make room as well OR push him back to the bench. LMA shanks us and we find out that we were never really in consideration at all. The Spurs had him locked up since day 1. The Morris brothers feel disrespected and mislead and now the Suns are stuck.

Essentially we have gutted the over achieving team and now are stuck rebuilding completely with late first round picks while teams like Philly and Minnesota tanked properly and are now loaded with young talent.

We have lost our two best players in Dragic and Keef and also our best asset (Laker pick). Booker and Warren could be steals, but I’d still rather have had a shot at Parker/Wiggins or KAT/Okafor.

Finally, you can’t say players around the league won’t take note of how Dragic and Keef left. This will hurt us.

None of this would have happened on a Colangelo watch.

Agree with everything except the bit about how we should have re-signed Frye

And we couldn't have extended Dragic. He had to become an unrestricted FA to get a big raise. But if we had kept Frye instead of IT, Dragic maybe stays, but he's not worth what he's getting paid so I don't mind having the two firsts and a younger combo guard instead.

[LukasBMW]

I'll admit, if we get D Mo out of this, I'd consider it a victory.

They'll need to add Jones to make the salaries work though!

[AtheJ415]

I'll admit, if we get D Mo out of this, I'd consider it a victory.

They'll need to add Jones to make the salaries work though!

The thing is Houston can't keep DMO and Jones beyond this season. Both will be FA's and they have too much committed elsewhere. Both will get large deals too. We could simply sign DMO next offseason to a huge deal if we wanted him, so I'm not a huge fan to trade for him early because Houston really has to either trade one of DMO or Jones or else lose one.

[TeamTragic]

The Morris twins are punks, but you can’t say the Suns didn’t really screw this entire rebuild up.

The 2013-2014 team overachieved at the worst possible time and we ended up missing out on a high lottery pick in a great draft. Yes, we did snag TJ Warren who could be a steal, but I’d still rather have had a shot at Wiggins.

Following the 2013-2014 season, we botch the Bledsoe negotiations, let Frye walk, and instead use Frye’s money to get IT. I remember thinking at the time that we would have been better off with Frye then IT at the same price. Additionally, we possibly could have extended Dragic if the Bledsoe negotiations hadn’t taken so long.

Only weeks into the season we could see that the 3 PG lineup would be an issue. We could have shipped out IT right away to give him a better opportunity elsewhere and gotten a decent return, but instead we held on. By midseason the happiness that the Morris twins and Dragic brothers displayed during training camp were gone and the team culture was toxic. We again could have shipped out IT to appease Dragic but we didn’t. This is the BIGGEST mistake we made. It ended up costing us our best player AND best asset (the Laker pick). By the way, the Lakers will be terrible again this year and that pick could still be top 7. If we had kept Frye instead of getting IT we probably would have made the playoffs.

This summer we go “all in” to try to get LMA and end up trading away Mook to make room. Additionally, Keef has to know we were going to replace him with LMA and either trade him to make room as well OR push him back to the bench. LMA shanks us and we find out that we were never really in consideration at all. The Spurs had him locked up since day 1. The Morris brothers feel disrespected and mislead and now the Suns are stuck.

Essentially we have gutted the over achieving team and now are stuck rebuilding completely with late first round picks while teams like Philly and Minnesota tanked properly and are now loaded with young talent.

We have lost our two best players in Dragic and Keef and also our best asset (Laker pick). Booker and Warren could be steals, but I’d still rather have had a shot at Parker/Wiggins or KAT/Okafor.

Finally, you can’t say players around the league won’t take note of how Dragic and Keef left. This will hurt us.

None of this would have happened on a Colangelo watch.

What the **** did I just read? We should have signed Frye to another contract? Dragic and Kieff were our two best players? If Dragic and Kieff are the best we can do then this franchise is doomed. We drafted Dragic and he had zero confidence from the start. He played with Steve Nash. 2xMVP Steve Nash. The shining moment came when we swept the Spurs and Dragic blasted them with that legendary fourth quarter performance.

What did he do after that season? NOTHING. We traded his ass to the Rockets for garbage. He was probably already acting like an immature prick after that "stepped on glass" incident which to this day we have no clue about what really happened. He gained confidence because we showed him the door and the Rockets had an injury. He became more motivated. Then he signed a contract with us in the off-season after literally nobody wanted to take a gamble. The Rockets even low-balled him with their offer.

We handed him the team right after Nash was traded and added low-risk high-reward players that made the team significantly better. We didn't do it through the draft at the time. He responded with a superstar performance for one season. FOR ONE SEASON. What did he do after that? NOTHING. We added more pieces to make the team better. IT was a great bargain however a bad fit.

Then Dragic started complaining (privately) and the rumors started floating around behind the scenes. Do you honestly think they were just rumors now? He didn't want to play with Bledose or IT. Then eventually he started the blame the front office. Really? No front office makes mistakes in the NBA?

LMA shanked the SUNS? Please stop posting nonsense. How many years have we heard that no FA wants to play in Phoenix? That obviously is not true and this off-season proves that we are still a viable option for big name players. Do we have to work harder than your average championship caliber team? YES. So does every other team and/or semi-large market. End rant.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

The Morris twins are punks, but you can’t say the Suns didn’t really screw this entire rebuild up.

The 2013-2014 team overachieved at the worst possible time and we ended up missing out on a high lottery pick in a great draft. Yes, we did snag TJ Warren who could be a steal, but I’d still rather have had a shot at Wiggins.

Following the 2013-2014 season, we botch the Bledsoe negotiations, let Frye walk, and instead use Frye’s money to get IT. I remember thinking at the time that we would have been better off with Frye then IT at the same price. Additionally, we possibly could have extended Dragic if the Bledsoe negotiations hadn’t taken so long.

Only weeks into the season we could see that the 3 PG lineup would be an issue. We could have shipped out IT right away to give him a better opportunity elsewhere and gotten a decent return, but instead we held on. By midseason the happiness that the Morris twins and Dragic brothers displayed during training camp were gone and the team culture was toxic. We again could have shipped out IT to appease Dragic but we didn’t. This is the BIGGEST mistake we made. It ended up costing us our best player AND best asset (the Laker pick). By the way, the Lakers will be terrible again this year and that pick could still be top 7. If we had kept Frye instead of getting IT we probably would have made the playoffs.

This summer we go “all in” to try to get LMA and end up trading away Mook to make room. Additionally, Keef has to know we were going to replace him with LMA and either trade him to make room as well OR push him back to the bench. LMA shanks us and we find out that we were never really in consideration at all. The Spurs had him locked up since day 1. The Morris brothers feel disrespected and mislead and now the Suns are stuck.

Essentially we have gutted the over achieving team and now are stuck rebuilding completely with late first round picks while teams like Philly and Minnesota tanked properly and are now loaded with young talent.

We have lost our two best players in Dragic and Keef and also our best asset (Laker pick). Booker and Warren could be steals, but I’d still rather have had a shot at Parker/Wiggins or KAT/Okafor.

Finally, you can’t say players around the league won’t take note of how Dragic and Keef left. This will hurt us.

None of this would have happened on a Colangelo watch.

What the **** did I just read? We should have signed Frye to another contract? Dragic and Kieff were our two best players? If Dragic and Kieff are the best we can do then this franchise is doomed. We drafted Dragic and he had zero confidence from the start. He played with Steve Nash. 2xMVP Steve Nash. The shining moment came when we swept the Spurs and Dragic blasted them with that legendary fourth quarter performance.

What did he do after that season? NOTHING. We traded his ass to the Rockets for garbage. He was probably already acting like an immature prick after that "stepped on glass" incident which to this day we have no clue about what really happened. He gained confidence because we showed him the door and the Rockets had an injury. He became more motivated. Then he signed a contract with us in the off-season after literally nobody wanted to take a gamble. The Rockets even low-balled him with their offer.

We handed him the team right after Nash was traded and added low-risk high-reward players that made the team significantly better. We didn't do it through the draft at the time. He responded with a superstar performance for one season. FOR ONE SEASON. What did he do after that? NOTHING. We added more pieces to make the team better. IT was a great bargain however a bad fit.

Then he started complaining and the rumors started floating around behind the scenes. Do you honestly think they were just rumors now? He didn't want to play with Bledose or IT. Then eventually he started the blame the front office. Really? No front office makes mistakes in the NBA?

LMA shanked the SUNS? Please stop posting nonsense. How many years have we heard that no FA wants to play in Phoenix? That obviously is not true and this off-season proves that we are still a viable option for big name players. Do we have to work harder than your average championship caliber team? YES. So does every other team and/or semi-large market. End rant.

Dude, you can respectfully disagree with someone. You don't need to act like people are an idiot in EVERY POST YOU MAKE. We all have different opinions and we all think some are idiots, but be respectful if you want to post here.

[TeamTragic]

Spoiler:

The Morris twins are punks, but you can’t say the Suns didn’t really screw this entire rebuild up.

The 2013-2014 team overachieved at the worst possible time and we ended up missing out on a high lottery pick in a great draft. Yes, we did snag TJ Warren who could be a steal, but I’d still rather have had a shot at Wiggins.

Following the 2013-2014 season, we botch the Bledsoe negotiations, let Frye walk, and instead use Frye’s money to get IT. I remember thinking at the time that we would have been better off with Frye then IT at the same price. Additionally, we possibly could have extended Dragic if the Bledsoe negotiations hadn’t taken so long.

Only weeks into the season we could see that the 3 PG lineup would be an issue. We could have shipped out IT right away to give him a better opportunity elsewhere and gotten a decent return, but instead we held on. By midseason the happiness that the Morris twins and Dragic brothers displayed during training camp were gone and the team culture was toxic. We again could have shipped out IT to appease Dragic but we didn’t. This is the BIGGEST mistake we made. It ended up costing us our best player AND best asset (the Laker pick). By the way, the Lakers will be terrible again this year and that pick could still be top 7. If we had kept Frye instead of getting IT we probably would have made the playoffs.

This summer we go “all in” to try to get LMA and end up trading away Mook to make room. Additionally, Keef has to know we were going to replace him with LMA and either trade him to make room as well OR push him back to the bench. LMA shanks us and we find out that we were never really in consideration at all. The Spurs had him locked up since day 1. The Morris brothers feel disrespected and mislead and now the Suns are stuck.

Essentially we have gutted the over achieving team and now are stuck rebuilding completely with late first round picks while teams like Philly and Minnesota tanked properly and are now loaded with young talent.

We have lost our two best players in Dragic and Keef and also our best asset (Laker pick). Booker and Warren could be steals, but I’d still rather have had a shot at Parker/Wiggins or KAT/Okafor.

Finally, you can’t say players around the league won’t take note of how Dragic and Keef left. This will hurt us.

None of this would have happened on a Colangelo watch.

What the **** did I just read? We should have signed Frye to another contract? Dragic and Kieff were our two best players? If Dragic and Kieff are the best we can do then this franchise is doomed. We drafted Dragic and he had zero confidence from the start. He played with Steve Nash. 2xMVP Steve Nash. The shining moment came when we swept the Spurs and Dragic blasted them with that legendary fourth quarter performance.

What did he do after that season? NOTHING. We traded his ass to the Rockets for garbage. He was probably already acting like an immature prick after that "stepped on glass" incident which to this day we have no clue about what really happened. He gained confidence because we showed him the door and the Rockets had an injury. He became more motivated. Then he signed a contract with us in the off-season after literally nobody wanted to take a gamble. The Rockets even low-balled him with their offer.

We handed him the team right after Nash was traded and added low-risk high-reward players that made the team significantly better. We didn't do it through the draft at the time. He responded with a superstar performance for one season. FOR ONE SEASON. What did he do after that? NOTHING. We added more pieces to make the team better. IT was a great bargain however a bad fit.

Then he started complaining and the rumors started floating around behind the scenes. Do you honestly think they were just rumors now? He didn't want to play with Bledose or IT. Then eventually he started the blame the front office. Really? No front office makes mistakes in the NBA?

LMA shanked the SUNS? Please stop posting nonsense. How many years have we heard that no FA wants to play in Phoenix? That obviously is not true and this off-season proves that we are still a viable option for big name players. Do we have to work harder than your average championship caliber team? YES. So does every other team and/or semi-large market. End rant.

Dude, you can respectfully disagree with someone. You don't need to act like people are an idiot in EVERY POST YOU MAKE. We all have different opinions and we all think some are idiots, but be respectful if you want to post here.

I didn't say he was an idiot. I offered a rebuttal. Not a big deal. You're are taking everything the wrong way. I'm sharing my thoughts even though you might disagree and/or dislike my tone.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

What the **** did I just read? We should have signed Frye to another contract? Dragic and Kieff were our two best players? If Dragic and Kieff are the best we can do then this franchise is doomed. We drafted Dragic and he had zero confidence from the start. He played with Steve Nash. 2xMVP Steve Nash. The shining moment came when we swept the Spurs and Dragic blasted them with that legendary fourth quarter performance.

What did he do after that season? NOTHING. We traded his ass to the Rockets for garbage. He was probably already acting like an immature prick after that "stepped on glass" incident which to this day we have no clue about what really happened. He gained confidence because we showed him the door and the Rockets had an injury. He became more motivated. Then he signed a contract with us in the off-season after literally nobody wanted to take a gamble. The Rockets even low-balled him with their offer.

We handed him the team right after Nash was traded and added low-risk high-reward players that made the team significantly better. We didn't do it through the draft at the time. He responded with a superstar performance for one season. FOR ONE SEASON. What did he do after that? NOTHING. We added more pieces to make the team better. IT was a great bargain however a bad fit.

Then he started complaining and the rumors started floating around behind the scenes. Do you honestly think they were just rumors now? He didn't want to play with Bledose or IT. Then eventually he started the blame the front office. Really? No front office makes mistakes in the NBA?

LMA shanked the SUNS? Please stop posting nonsense. How many years have we heard that no FA wants to play in Phoenix? That obviously is not true and this off-season proves that we are still a viable option for big name players. Do we have to work harder than your average championship caliber team? YES. So does every other team and/or semi-large market. End rant.

Dude, you can respectfully disagree with someone. You don't need to act like people are an idiot in EVERY POST YOU MAKE. We all have different opinions and we all think some are idiots, but be respectful if you want to post here.

I didn't say he was an idiot. I offered a rebuttal. Not a big deal. You're are taking everything the wrong way. I'm sharing my thoughts even though you might disagree and/or dislike my tone.

Yes I don't like your tone and I'm guessing others don't either. It can be entertaining to watch someone seem so pissed off but it can also piss off who you are responding to, and what is the point in that? We already have a few posters who try and do that for whatever reason, but it is not something that is encouraged and not something that will be tolerated for long.

[Mr-Al]

The only feasible trade involving D-Mo

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=phla3ar


D-MO + Ariza for Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin

Salary wise it's a tough deal because you would basically have to have Ariza's contract being moved too. That would mean us basically being forced to move Tucker as well.

Meanwhile, we'd need to sweeten that pot and add some combination of Archie and/or a pick


The one I like better is

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qz3anxy

Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin for Mirotic, Snell, and Kirk (include a pick too if needed)

Doubt they trade him, imo the Bulls would be a better team next season as a result of this

It would also mean really trusting Warren, Weems, and Snell with manning the SF position, Mirotic is worth it though

[bwgood77]

The only feasible trade involving D-Mo

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=phla3ar


D-MO + Ariza for Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin

Salary wise it's a tough deal because you would basically have to have Ariza's contract being moved too. That would mean us basically being forced to move Tucker as well.

Meanwhile, we'd need to sweeten that pot and add some combination of Archie and/or a pick


The one I like better is

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qz3anxy

Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin for Mirotic, Snell, and Kirk (include a pick too if needed)

Doubt they trade him, imo the Bulls would be a better team next season as a result of this

It would also mean really trusting Warren, Weems, and Snell with manning the SF position, Mirotic is worth it though

Those seem like fair deals but Houston only wants 3s and shots at the rim, so I don't think they would be into a mid range player like Kieff.

[letsgosuns]

I listened to Gambo's podcast from his show earlier today. The mentioning of Montiejunas was his own speculation. All he said was the Suns have liked him for a while and maybe he would be a player the Suns looked at trying to acquire. Then he mentioned that Houston already had Marcus Morris on the team and might not want anything to do with another Morris brother. He also was purely speculating about Frye and that the Suns would probably rather have him instead of Markieff. So neither Montiejunas or Frye might actually be on the Suns radar. The main thing was Gambo said he thinks the Suns want to replace Markieff with another power forward which is what everyone expects.

[TeamTragic]

The only feasible trade involving D-Mo

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=phla3ar


D-MO + Ariza for Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin

Salary wise it's a tough deal because you would basically have to have Ariza's contract being moved too. That would mean us basically being forced to move Tucker as well.

Meanwhile, we'd need to sweeten that pot and add some combination of Archie and/or a pick


The one I like better is

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qz3anxy

Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin for Mirotic, Snell, and Kirk (include a pick too if needed)

Doubt they trade him, imo the Bulls would be a better team next season as a result of this

It would also mean really trusting Warren, Weems, and Snell with manning the SF position, Mirotic is worth it though

Both trades are decent though I still don't want to give up on Archie. However not having to watch Tucker get fatter and Kieff inevitably throwing a tantrum a la Dragic might be worth the asking price. I just don't see Houston doing this deal.

[Revived]

The guy who made the Westbrook and Kobe impersonation videos made a Brandon Knight one too

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/8/2/9087873/offseason-fun-new-suns-guard-brandon-knight-wants-to-put-detroit

I almost died laughing

I think every single one of his impersonations have been on point so far, gotta give him mad props.

[jcsunsfan]

The Morris twins are punks, but you can’t say the Suns didn’t really screw this entire rebuild up.

The 2013-2014 team overachieved at the worst possible time and we ended up missing out on a high lottery pick in a great draft. Yes, we did snag TJ Warren who could be a steal, but I’d still rather have had a shot at Wiggins.

Following the 2013-2014 season, we botch the Bledsoe negotiations, let Frye walk, and instead use Frye’s money to get IT. I remember thinking at the time that we would have been better off with Frye then IT at the same price. Additionally, we possibly could have extended Dragic if the Bledsoe negotiations hadn’t taken so long.

Only weeks into the season we could see that the 3 PG lineup would be an issue. We could have shipped out IT right away to give him a better opportunity elsewhere and gotten a decent return, but instead we held on. By midseason the happiness that the Morris twins and Dragic brothers displayed during training camp were gone and the team culture was toxic. We again could have shipped out IT to appease Dragic but we didn’t. This is the BIGGEST mistake we made. It ended up costing us our best player AND best asset (the Laker pick). By the way, the Lakers will be terrible again this year and that pick could still be top 7. If we had kept Frye instead of getting IT we probably would have made the playoffs.

This summer we go “all in” to try to get LMA and end up trading away Mook to make room. Additionally, Keef has to know we were going to replace him with LMA and either trade him to make room as well OR push him back to the bench. LMA shanks us and we find out that we were never really in consideration at all. The Spurs had him locked up since day 1. The Morris brothers feel disrespected and mislead and now the Suns are stuck.

Essentially we have gutted the over achieving team and now are stuck rebuilding completely with late first round picks while teams like Philly and Minnesota tanked properly and are now loaded with young talent.

We have lost our two best players in Dragic and Keef and also our best asset (Laker pick). Booker and Warren could be steals, but I’d still rather have had a shot at Parker/Wiggins or KAT/Okafor.

Finally, you can’t say players around the league won’t take note of how Dragic and Keef left. This will hurt us.

None of this would have happened on a Colangelo watch.

What a crock of crap. That is one of the most biased interpretation of events I have ever read. How pray tell did the team botch the Bledsoe negotiations? Should they have given him the 5/85 he asked for and then never answered calls after that?

IT was Bledsoe insurance plain and simple and it was time to let Frye go.

And where did you read that LMA never even considered us. Totally false.

Marcus needed to go regardless. Anyone with a brain could see the poison these two are together.

You completely ignore the acquisition of Knight and Chandler while moaning the loss of the laker pick the value of which is still undetermined.

[Years90Suns]

When you sleep with children, you get up wet in the morning...

Let's get rid of Markieff and then try not to screw things up when selecting players with bad minds.

I do not know who we could get for him at this point. What seems clear is that he tries to hurt the franchise's interests by filtering out his desires and unhappinnes here. so we have to trade him and get less value in return...

[Son of Ra]

I usually am a super rational person but I would love for us to neither trade nor play Kieff a single minute in the next four years. Send him to the dleague if that is what it takes to make that work legally.

[asudevil]

The only feasible trade involving D-Mo

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=phla3ar


D-MO + Ariza for Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin

Salary wise it's a tough deal because you would basically have to have Ariza's contract being moved too. That would mean us basically being forced to move Tucker as well.

Meanwhile, we'd need to sweeten that pot and add some combination of Archie and/or a pick


The one I like better is

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qz3anxy

Kieff, Tucker, Goodwin for Mirotic, Snell, and Kirk (include a pick too if needed)

Doubt they trade him, imo the Bulls would be a better team next season as a result of this

It would also mean really trusting Warren, Weems, and Snell with manning the SF position, Mirotic is worth it though

Both trades are decent though I still don't want to give up on Archie. However not having to watch Tucker get fatter and Kieff inevitably throwing a tantrum a la Dragic might be worth the asking price. I just don't see Houston doing this deal.

I'd say swap the Goodwin for the Cleveland 1st and its a deal.

[King4Day]

Frye isn't a bad role player. I wouldn't mind getting him back but not at the cost of trading Kieff. Maybe Kieff for Aaron Gordon/Frye.

Exactly. We need more than just Frye's bad contract. Give us Gordon and I'd be interested for sure.

[bwgood77]

The guy who made the Westbrook and Kobe impersonation videos made a Brandon Knight one too

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/8/2/9087873/offseason-fun-new-suns-guard-brandon-knight-wants-to-put-detroit

I almost died laughing

I think every single one of his impersonations have been on point so far, gotta give him mad props.

I like how the Brandon Knight video is accompanied by "I had a bad day". That's what happens when you play immediately into the league as if Archie would have the last couple of years. But it's nice to know by the time he got to Milwaukee he was a near all star.

[Saberestar]

If Markieff hasn't talked to anyone associated with @phxsuns, how are you hearing he wants to be traded or won't show up until camp?

John Gambadoro

Sorry I can not divulge my sources, just know they are as solid as solid can be.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Gambo987/status/629889779417505792