Official Free Agent Thread: What to do with our cap space

[BobbieL]

Suns need a scorer. A guy that Mark Jackson will say something like "Mama - he is a bad man. First, he hits the step back knock down J. Next, three ball, corner pocket. Suns are rolling!!"

There is one guy out there, if healthy - and he is going to cost a crapload of money for four years - that would be the guy. Carmelo Anthony. And maybe it has been discussed on this board and I am too lazy to look it up throughout this thread.

What it would cost? I am not sure . But I am guessing Phillip would love to get out of that contract to rebuild his team.

Anthony for the Morris Twins, Tucker,. Goodwin or Bullock and draft picks

A healthy Carmelo with role players around him - maybe Patric Young at the 4 and other low paid guys - brings more than the Morri and Tucker. He just does. As one superstar in the NBA is so big to your teams success.

[Flying Colors]

Nah man, lets not talk about Carmelo

[bwgood77]

Suns need a scorer. A guy that Mark Jackson will say something like "Mama - he is a bad man. First, he hits the step back knock down J. Next, three ball, corner pocket. Suns are rolling!!"

There is one guy out there, if healthy - and he is going to cost a crapload of money for four years - that would be the guy. Carmelo Anthony. And maybe it has been discussed on this board and I am too lazy to look it up throughout this thread.

What it would cost? I am not sure . But I am guessing Phillip would love to get out of that contract to rebuild his team.

Anthony for the Morris Twins, Tucker,. Goodwin or Bullock and draft picks

A healthy Carmelo with role players around him - maybe Patric Young at the 4 and other low paid guys - brings more than the Morri and Tucker. He just does. As one superstar in the NBA is so big to your teams success.

Phil's made it pretty clear he isn't interested in going through a rebuild and wants to put vet pieces around Anthony. He's only ever been around teams with a star that were ready to compete for championships. Dolan likely isn't interested in that either and I'm guessing when Phil got hired it was to get them to compete quickly, and he also convinced Melo to stay there and they will build a winner. Plus they don't have draft picks in 2016 and 2018.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Most likely some stretch 4 and PG like Tolliver and Thomas.

I certainly hope that is not all we do yet again. Overpay for another teams unused players, or cast off rejects. We do that every time, then tout them as the proverbial "daimond in the rough" type of underrated player.

And then run with those players year after year, right back to 10th in the west and the 13th pick and of course the continual treadmill of mediocrity.

See the problem is that even though it takes a proper blend of veteran talent mixed with rookie talent to achieve the desired outcome of reaching the playoffs,

We are consistently unable to procure, sign, recruit any sort of notable talent.
We are basically the clippers before they became good.


It doesn't matter if it was caused by team management, the owner himself, or players inability to make good social and business decisions legally either.

Point being, the players (free agents) marquee players obviously have that perception of us. And how many players lined up to play for or sign with them before they got Blake Griffin, Deandre Jordan, and chris paul.

We have two opposing camps that our posters are slotted into.....those who highly advocate to build through the draft(crapshoot or not!) And those who are desperately clinging to the hope that a premium free agent will be emphatically inclined to sign with us and resurrect us back to prominance.

Either path we choose does not provide the immediate gratification we seek, And continuing to propegate the beliefs that one is wrong and the other is right, will only keep us mired in delusion and postseason apathy.

I choose the draft, because irregardless of people believing it is a crapshoot and nothing more, I emphatically disagree.


It is really just a matter of your scouting team doing their job correctly, and positioning yourself accordingly to draft the partivular player of interest.

Now our scouting staff may not be top notch yet, but realistically, that is obviously much easier to fix than a publicly negative perception of this franchise for whatever reason by players. Leading to absolutely no signing of any impact (needle moving) players.

The draft gives us control of that player for an extended duration. Plenty of time to sell the player/players on our franchise, aside from public perception, etc. That is as long as our franchise is moderately competent enough to be able to do this with multiple years time.

But to do this, we have to get past this perception that free agency is our salvation and the draft is an unreasonable gamble. Did we forget that all players, even those coveted in free agency came from the draft in the first place???

Our franchise will only be as good as the foundation it is built upon. And that foundation for every team originated at one time or another with the draft.

So let's be realists, and not invest our hopes in any delusions or magic quick fixes. Our franchise is rebuilding and will be for the foreseeable future.

Our foundation for success is the draft and the players we develop from it.

[Cutter]

Suns aren't going to deliberately tank for draft picks if that's what you are suggesting. They have never done that in their entire history, and nothing indicates they are going to start doing it now.

[bwgood77]

Plus, scouting depends goes all the way down the draft. DeAndre Jordan was mentioned, and he was taken (I believe) after Robin Lopez. Kawhi Leonard. Paul George. Jimmy Butler. Draymond Green.

Personally I like Warren and Len regardless of where they were picked. I think McD is a better scout than Kerr was (though I guess Kerr was trying to trade for Curry and also drafted Dragic) but I feel pretty good that if we keep our pick, it will be a good one. I'm not THAT sold on anyone at the PF position over anyone else (except maybe Porzingis if he is what the scouts high on him say he is.).

[King4Day]

Does anyone think we have a shot at Thibs if Hornacek does go to Iowa? Seems we'd be the only vacant coaching spot.
I know our situation isn't sexy in the least but it couldn't hurt to try.

[Cutter]

Does anyone think we have a shot at Thibs if Hornacek does go to Iowa? Seems we'd be the only vacant coaching spot.
I know our situation isn't sexy in the least but it couldn't hurt to try.

It seems that if we went after Thib's, it would require a mini blow-up of this team to get a different kind of talent to fit his defensive oriented style. He is not known for offense, and this team is built more for a spread out, 3 point shooting style of play with high percentage finishing at the rim.

Could Thib's adjust his style of coaching to fit our talent? I don't know .

[BobbieL]

Does anyone think we have a shot at Thibs if Hornacek does go to Iowa? Seems we'd be the only vacant coaching spot.
I know our situation isn't sexy in the least but it couldn't hurt to try.

Right now, the only opening is Denver. I would say Phoenix probably has better building blocks than Denver. Ryan and Thibs worked together in Boston - so they have that history.

Lakers reportedly want Thibs but that would mean paying off Byron after paying off D'Antoni and Mike Brown. So four coaches on the payroll

If Hornacek wants Iowa State or if Ryan McD has the cahones to spend Sarvers money - I think Thibs to the Suns makes sense.

Its not that I think Hornacek is a bad coach; and who knew 18 years ago Popovich was going to turn into Popovich so Hornacek still might be a very good NBA coach. I just think, right now, Tom Thibodeau is probably a better NBA coach than Hornacek.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Thibs runs his own show, FO would lose their power.

Having said that, McDonough needs results and knows him from Boston like Longabardi.

[BobbieL]

Suns need a scorer. A guy that Mark Jackson will say something like "Mama - he is a bad man. First, he hits the step back knock down J. Next, three ball, corner pocket. Suns are rolling!!"

There is one guy out there, if healthy - and he is going to cost a crapload of money for four years - that would be the guy. Carmelo Anthony. And maybe it has been discussed on this board and I am too lazy to look it up throughout this thread.

What it would cost? I am not sure . But I am guessing Phillip would love to get out of that contract to rebuild his team.

Anthony for the Morris Twins, Tucker,. Goodwin or Bullock and draft picks

A healthy Carmelo with role players around him - maybe Patric Young at the 4 and other low paid guys - brings more than the Morri and Tucker. He just does. As one superstar in the NBA is so big to your teams success.

Phil's made it pretty clear he isn't interested in going through a rebuild and wants to put vet pieces around Anthony. He's only ever been around teams with a star that were ready to compete for championships. Dolan likely isn't interested in that either and I'm guessing when Phil got hired it was to get them to compete quickly, and he also convinced Melo to stay there and they will build a winner. Plus they don't have draft picks in 2016 and 2018.

Okay, no to Carmelo but the Knicks would be getting the picks from the Suns -not the other way around.

Either way - the Suns need that go to guy. Not sure who it is. But they need him. I still think Love on this team would be a good fit over the Morris twins. But if he walks from Cleveland, both LA and Boston can open the vault for him

[Mulhollanddrive]

What about Goran Dragic, oh no you didnt.

[NotTraxxe]

Let's say the Suns tanked and picked #3 in the last three drafts.

Three years of tanking:

2013 Len
2014 Embiid
2015 Russell

Lets assume that outside of those picks we had our current group. I get that we wouldn't but for the sake of making this easy to see. I think we still take Len. We were him or Oladipo in that draft.

Bledsoe/Knight
Russell/Green
Tucker/Morris
Morris/Wright
Embiid/Len

Look, I get that some of these players wouldn't be here from their trades, etc. But just sit and stare at that a moment and imagine how excited we would be for tipoff next year. That said I think tanking is crap and sucks. I wouldn't do it. But fansturbation is free.

[Cutter]

Oh man. I saw a fresh post by NotTraxxe and eagerly clicked the link hoping for some major breaking news on the Suns. Instead, we get rosterbation post number 10,247 on this forum! Russell, Embid, Len........I will admit when you do rosterbate you are right up there with the best of them!

[DirtyDez]

Let's say the Suns tanked and picked #3 in the last three drafts.

Three years of tanking:

2013 Len
2014 Embiid
2015 Russell

Lets assume that outside of those picks we had our current group. I get that we wouldn't but for the sake of making this easy to see. I think we still take Len. We were him or Oladipo in that draft.

Bledsoe/Knight
Russell/Green
Tucker/Morris
Morris/Wright
Embiid/Len

Look, I get that some of these players wouldn't be here from their trades, etc. But just sit and stare at that a moment and imagine how excited we would be for tipoff next year. That said I think tanking is crap and sucks. I wouldn't do it. But fansturbation is free.

If the Pellies are 1 & done and Davis decides to sign the QO the Sixers could offer Embiid/Noel and their two 1st rounders from next year. Then they sign KD to pair with AD.

[bwgood77]

Does anyone think we have a shot at Thibs if Hornacek does go to Iowa? Seems we'd be the only vacant coaching spot.
I know our situation isn't sexy in the least but it couldn't hurt to try.

It seems that if we went after Thib's, it would require a mini blow-up of this team to get a different kind of talent to fit his defensive oriented style. He is not known for offense, and this team is built more for a spread out, 3 point shooting style of play with high percentage finishing at the rim.

Could Thib's adjust his style of coaching to fit our talent? I don't know .

I think we'd have a good chance of getting him due to the McD situation and people also generally like to live in Phoenix. Personally I wouldn't be terribly interested in him, because I've enjoyed the high powered Phx offenses from 88 until almost now...it seems every time we try to go defense (Skiles, Porter) it just doesn't resonate with the fans or anyone.

I always hated the old versions of the Spurs before they adapted to ball movement and the new trend across the league.

I think Thibs is a great defensive coach but I also think both teams he has coached have had a great deal of talent (Boston's D with KG, Rondo, Perkins when he was good, Pierce, Allen) and then the Bulls were stacked.

I honestly think if he were to coach our team we would still have a very tough time reaching the playoffs in the west.

I think what our team needs most is continuity. Hornacek was a great coach in his first year, the team clicked well, and then we made a bunch of changes, had injuries, etc, and we had a down year. I don't know that a constant churning of the roster is going to get us anywhere fast unless we land a star which is improbable.

I'll be interested to see how the Bulls do with Hoiberg. What if they get to the finals? What if this is a case like with Mark Jackson where you think a guy is a pretty good coach and he has emphasized defense, but with so much focus on the defense, you were holding back the offense? I think Thibs is best as an assistant or possibly a guy to coach a young team so they learn defensive principles, and then you bring someone else in to take them to the next level. I don't think Thibs gets this current team anywhere with the current talent.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Suns aren't going to deliberately tank for draft picks if that's what you are suggesting. They have never done that in their entire history, and nothing indicates they are going to start doing it now.

And I never said that should be the plan, nor do I endorse tanking either. However, there is easily the ability to trade asset for asset in this league.


You just have to be assertive enough to go after your interests, before another team recognizes the value and intercedes.

[letsgosuns]

If you consistently pick 13th or 14th in the draft, you are going to be stuck in mediocrity, which is exactly where the Suns are. Seriously they were starting P.J. Tucker and Marcus Morris at the 2 and 3 spots to finish out the year. C'mon. These guys are such pathetic starters it is embarrassing. I find it hilarious some people think Tucker is a good role model for young players. Not only does the guy have off the court issues, he is one of the least talented starting small forwards in the league. All he does is try hard. He does nothing else. His basketball iq is horrible. I would take Jared Dudley over him any day. The Suns need a complete overhaul. I would trade everyone on the team besides Len, Warren, and Goodwin if I could. The problem is that no one wants what the Suns have. You know why? Besides what the Suns have is GARBAGE.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Let's say the Suns tanked and picked #3 in the last three drafts.

Three years of tanking:

2013 Len
2014 Embiid
2015 Russell

Lets assume that outside of those picks we had our current group. I get that we wouldn't but for the sake of making this easy to see. I think we still take Len. We were him or Oladipo in that draft.

Bledsoe/Knight
Russell/Green
Tucker/Morris
Morris/Wright
Embiid/Len

Look, I get that some of these players wouldn't be here from their trades, etc. But just sit and stare at that a moment and imagine how excited we would be for tipoff next year. That said I think tanking is crap and sucks. I wouldn't do it. But fansturbation is free.

You know what , I would honestly be very excited for the season to tip off with that roster.


Again, please let me reiterate my stance on tanking.....It's not necessary. As mcdonough said, We are in the business of asset collection as well as increasing the level of talent and athleticism on this team.

Sure alot of people would suggest that the draft is always going to be a losing investment proportionally. However, more often than not....chance favors the bold.

For instance, for awhile now, naysayers have been stating that a trade with new york is not reasonable nor realistic with our given roster of assets.


Yet even today, ( in the wiretaps) it has been reported that the knicks are apparently enamored with trey lyles....And that phil jackson envisions him as a perfect candidate for his triangle offense.

Now, conveniently enough, were does he project to fall to ....what range?....Our range at #13 of course.

So if there was any more indications of the stars aligning in our favor, I'd be overtly shocked. The writing is on the wall.

So at what point do we make a deal happen, and get a more profound talent at #4. Or do we sit on our hands yet again, and say, we are satisfied with whatever lottery leftovers are thrown to us....

Mcdonough is supposed to be very adept at making big trades happen in our favor so far....Do we once again neglect an oppurtunity such as this, and convince ourselves that we will win big in free agency, even though we are what??? 0-4 in the last few years or so?

I'm not saying tank, just be creative, assertive in exploring all of our options, instead of limiting ourselves to only mediocre outcomes continually.

Question to consider is how would you feel if we just sat back, and a lesser team with even less desirable assets stepped in and secured that pick?

And we sat back prophecizing foregone success in free agency only to whiff again.

How would any of us rationalize that. Point being, to be big time, you have to play big time odds. Win or lose, at least you sat at the table, instead of looking sadly through the window.

[thamadkant]

Suns need a scorer. A guy that Mark Jackson will say something like "Mama - he is a bad man. First, he hits the step back knock down J. Next, three ball, corner pocket. Suns are rolling!!"

There is one guy out there, if healthy - and he is going to cost a crapload of money for four years - that would be the guy. Carmelo Anthony. And maybe it has been discussed on this board and I am too lazy to look it up throughout this thread.

What it would cost? I am not sure . But I am guessing Phillip would love to get out of that contract to rebuild his team.

Anthony for the Morris Twins, Tucker,. Goodwin or Bullock and draft picks

A healthy Carmelo with role players around him - maybe Patric Young at the 4 and other low paid guys - brings more than the Morri and Tucker. He just does. As one superstar in the NBA is so big to your teams success.

Melo is not likely to be traded, unless for another all-star.

Phil Jackson is not there to rebuild for 5+ years, he wants results as early as next season.

Suns have a higher chance of trading half the team for their pick, than getting Melo from them.

And quiet frankly I want the Suns to swing for the fences and go for a potential all-star from the draft.

I'm anticipating Mudiay, Winslow to be available at pick 4.
Ideally Russell is my pick... or Towns or even Okafor (he looks like a future best inside scorer big man)

If Suns bring in Mudiay, Russell, Winslow in the coming weeks, I'll be excited since it means McD is considering trading up that high.