Draft Thread Part 2

[rsavaj]

any way we could move from 13 to 8?

13+28+Archie for 8? That's not enough, is it?

I feel like 8 gives you a chance to grab a dude like Chriss or Hield if he drops, where 13 is just kinda "eh"

[NavLDO]

So I'm seeing lots of opposition to taking a guard at #4 because we already have a couple guards on the roster. Yet at the same time, little opposition to trading the pick for a center (Noel/Okafor) even though we already have multiple centers on the roster..
nkin
I'm confused.

There is a difference, though. Chandler is old, and wouldn't be surprised to see him go after this season, if not sooner. Anyone other than Len is 3rd String.

Our Guards, however, are young, and starters, or potential starters/"2nd String" guys:

Bledsoe
Knight
Booker
Bogdanovic (latest rumor, in case anyone hears otherwise, is he's coming over this season, but if not, t worst, will be here in 2017)
Goodwin
Price (maybe)
Jenkins

vs.

Len
Chandler (maybe)

So how I'm looking at it (which I can't speak for anyone else), we have six-and-a-half Guards, or at worst five Guards for two positions with only one-and-a-half Centers.

So, at least for me, it doesn't make sense to add yet another Guard. If I discount Chandler (which I do), I then must discount Price. So that's, at worst, 2.5 Guards per position, and 1.5 Centers per position.

[NavLDO]

My top 13, (with what I view as each's most redeeming quality in parenthesis) right now, is:

Ingram (versatility)
Simmons (Upside)
Bender (Upside)
Valentine (Versatility)
Chriss (Upside)
Brown (Versatility)
Skal (Upside)
Baldwin (Shooting)
Ellenson (Versatility)
Davis (Versatility)
Sabonis (Shooting)
Hield (Shooting)
Dunn (Athleticism)

Murray not in your top 13?

Complete oversight. Thanks. Murray would be between Skal and Ellenson, or 8th. So, the opposite of, for those old enough to remember "History of the World, Part I--"I give you these 15 (drops tablet and breaks/crumbles)...10 Commandments..." LOL.

My top 13...(adds Murray) top 14 prospects...(swapping Ellenson and Baldwin)

Ingram (versatility)
Simmons (Upside)
Bender (Upside)
Valentine (Versatility)
Chriss (Upside)
Brown (Versatility)
Skal (Upside)
Murray (Shooting)
Ellenson (Versatility)
Baldwin (Shooting)
Davis (Versatility)
Sabonis (Shooting)
Hield (Shooting)
Dunn (Athleticism)

[Cactus Jack]

how does Chriss compare to Amare at the same age?

Well we cant look at Amare in college but had a FT% of 71% in high school and 29.1 points, 15 rebounds, 6.1 blocked shots, and 2.1 steals per game (on Wikipedia). Chriss in college shot 68% on FT% and in high school PPG 21.9 RPG 11.6 APG 1.6 SPG 0.9 BPG 3.1

Having followed Chriss at Washington, these Amare comps need to stop. Amare was a different animal. A bulldog. Chriss is a good athlete with a decent jumpshot. Not worthy of taking at 4 imho. If he's still available at 13, fine take a flyer.

[NavLDO]

This is exactly why I believe the argument some people make knocking Dunn, Hield, or whoever else for spending four years in college is absolutely ridiculous.

I agree. That's a poor argument by itself, which is why Valentine is one of my favorite prospects. I don't really 'like' Dunn or Hield based upon their 'production' or 'lack of development' or 'inconsistency' while in college, so I hope you aren't trying to 'lump me in' with that crowd.

[NavLDO]

I just look at the best guards in the draft over the past 5 years and theyre all unathletic 3rd-4th year players who slipped outside the top 5 because of that, but they shoot and score 20+ efficiently.

Sounds like Buddy and Valentine. WHICH IS WHY WE SHOULD DRAFT THEM!!!!!

Except Buddy. He's a SG ONLY, and we have that locked up in Booker. Valentine, however, can play any of three positions, and PG might be his best based upon his PPR, A/TO, BBIQ, and production this last season as a PG for most of it. A 6'6" PG with a 6'11" Wingspan?!?! Yes, please!

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

DX is wildly underestimating Dejounte Murray. Can't see that guy getting past the teens.

[NavLDO]

I just look at the best guards in the draft over the past 5 years and theyre all unathletic 3rd-4th year players who slipped outside the top 5 because of that, but they shoot and score 20+ efficiently.

Sounds like Buddy and Valentine. WHICH IS WHY WE SHOULD DRAFT THEM!!!!!

Valentine's assists, rebounds, 3pt shooting and IQ... Have been proven to be translatable to the NBA. Teams can always use players who good decisions and have great understanding of the game.



Hield has only good scoring numbers....




I would draft Valentine ..... Not sure about Hield... Definitely not top 5.... Too old.



Valentine...i like his potential to be a better Dudley...

YES, YES, YES!!! And what's also great, is, let's say Booker goes down with an injury--slide Denzel in. Warren goes down? Same thing. AND, it allows us to trade Bledsoe and/or Knight, and we're still good.

[Kerrsed]

any way we could move from 13 to 8?

Bledsoe for #8/WCS

[NavLDO]

Btw, that thinking of the NBA is moving away from players like Okafor is hot garbage. There are no Okafor's but Okafor playing in the mold of the Hakeem's, Shaq's, Duncan's, Ewing's, Robinson's, McHale's, and Kareem's anymore because they all want to play away from the basket, that's why the NBA is moving away from these type of players, not the other way around. A unstoppable post-presence will always be an asset no matter what people say. There just aren't any good ones in the league besides Cousins.

I know this will shock saintEscaton, but I'm going to give props to Gobert in this regard. I think Gobert is an excellent example of how to be successful like Cousins, and I'd add DeAndre Jordan in the group as well; maybe not 'great', but 'really good'. And in Chandler's 'hay day', I'd say he's another really good example.

[saintEscaton]

Btw, that thinking of the NBA is moving away from players like Okafor is hot garbage. There are no Okafor's but Okafor playing in the mold of the Hakeem's, Shaq's, Duncan's, Ewing's, Robinson's, McHale's, and Kareem's anymore because they all want to play away from the basket, that's why the NBA is moving away from these type of players, not the other way around. A unstoppable post-presence will always be an asset no matter what people say. There just aren't any good ones in the league besides Cousins.

I know this will shock saintEscaton, but I'm going to give props to Gobert in this regard. I think Gobert is an excellent example of how to be successful like Cousins, and I'd add DeAndre Jordan in the group as well; maybe not 'great', but 'really good'. And in Chandler's 'hay day', I'd say he's another really good example.

Well DeAndre is an unstoppable roll man like Drummond, before he was an overrated rim protector who would only rack up flashy helpside blocks biting on everything but he finally transformed himself All-NBA anchor. I think Jah will end up somewhere between Brook Lopez and Boogie. Gobert's offense is restricted to putbacks and dribble penetration dumpoffs but at least he plays within his limitations and insanely efficient at what he does, unlike Len who is asked to do more but is a mythical floor spacer. When compared to the careers of greats like Rodman, Ben Wallace and Mutombo who's career spanned 14+ years, in his second season Gobert ranked 1st in WS/48, first in TS%, first in PER, second in BPM, 4th in VORP

[dremill24]

So I'm seeing lots of opposition to taking a guard at #4 because we already have a couple guards on the roster. Yet at the same time, little opposition to trading the pick for a center (Noel/Okafor) even though we already have multiple centers on the roster..
nkin
I'm confused.

There is a difference, though. Chandler is old, and wouldn't be surprised to see him go after this season, if not sooner. Anyone other than Len is 3rd String.

Our Guards, however, are young, and starters, or potential starters/"2nd String" guys:

Bledsoe
Knight
Booker
Bogdanovic (latest rumor, in case anyone hears otherwise, is he's coming over this season, but if not, t worst, will be here in 2017)
Goodwin
Price (maybe)
Jenkins

vs.

Len
Chandler (maybe)

So how I'm looking at it (which I can't speak for anyone else), we have six-and-a-half Guards, or at worst five Guards for two positions with only one-and-a-half Centers.

So, at least for me, it doesn't make sense to add yet another Guard. If I discount Chandler (which I do), I then must discount Price. So that's, at worst, 2.5 Guards per position, and 1.5 Centers per position.

I hear you but if we're gonna talk about quality..it goes both ways. Jenkins, Goodwin, Price are just not very good, you can't make roster decisions based on them. Bogdan is an absolute wildcard, nobody knows what he's gonna be or If he's even coming over. And Knight is a guy everyone wants out of town. So basically that leaves Bledsoe and Booker as go-forward pieces. I wouldn't call that a huge glut when it comes to building a roster. There's also no reason you can't have Bledsoe and Booker on the court together with Dunn/Hield/Murray for stretches.

I'm not gonna sit here and act like I know exactly which player is gonna be the best of the bunch, none of us do. I'm just failing to see any reason why you don't take BPA no matter the position if someone separates himself.

[JMac1]

Still think this draft is six deep; Simmons, Ingram, Bender, Dunn, Murray, and Hield with a few boom or bust guys like Chriss, Brown and Zhou. Not bad for a so called "weak" draft.

[Cactus Jack]

DX is wildly underestimating Dejounte Murray. Can't see that guy getting past the teens.

Agreed. Better prospect than Chriss long-term.

[letsgosuns]

This is exactly why I believe the argument some people make knocking Dunn, Hield, or whoever else for spending four years in college is absolutely ridiculous.

I agree. That's a poor argument by itself, which is why Valentine is one of my favorite prospects. I don't really 'like' Dunn or Hield based upon their 'production' or 'lack of development' or 'inconsistency' while in college, so I hope you aren't trying to 'lump me in' with that crowd.

No I am not lumping you or anyone else into a certain crowd. See the reasons you do not like Dunn or Hield are the types of reasons that are legitimate. When I see someone say I think they are good but I am weary of drafting them because they spent four years in college, my first reaction is why. That is why I listed all of those Dream Team players. A perfect example is Magic Johnson and John Stockton. Magic was in college for two years and Stockton for four. Both are Hall of Famers. I do not think it matters how long you are in college.

Some people mentioned how they do not like four year college players because they are too old by the time they are drafted. I read that and am cannot fathom why a person thinks a 22 year old kid is too old. I do not think enough players stay in college for the appropriate time anyway. Like maybe if Goodwin stayed in college, he would not be such a bad jump shooter. Or if Knight stayed in college, his ball handling would not be so poor. Then you have Booker who was ready to come in after one year.

So many players coming into the league today lack fundamentals. When guys came into the league directly from high school like KG, Kobe, and Amare, they came in because they were insanely talented and had an impact immediately. Amare did not have a jump shot but he was so incredible at what he did that it did not matter in his first year. But those guys are rare. So many players come into the game nowadays after one year and they make no impact until the end of their rookie contracts. They are coming in because they just want to be in the NBA as soon as possible even if they are not ready. Some guys realize they are not ready and stay in college until they are ready. Sometimes it takes four years to become ready.

[darealjuice]

DX is wildly underestimating Dejounte Murray. Can't see that guy getting past the teens.

Agreed. Better prospect than Chriss long-term.

I guarantee Murray doesn't turn out better than Chriss

[saintEscaton]

Only Siths deal in absolutes

[darealjuice]

Very ironic coming from you

[DirtyDez]

Dunn is a decapitated dead man's version of Wall. John Wall would go #1 in this draft straight outta HS. Besides, the guy reportedly won't release his medicals or meet with the team. Until that happens I'm not even considering Dunn at #4. Gambo says keep an eye on Demetrius Jackson at #13.

[saintEscaton]

I am one