The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

[bwgood77]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276718/Cam-Payne-Knicks-Agree-To-One-Year-$31M-Deal

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276714/Mikal-Bridges-Expected-To-Sign-Team-Friendly-Extension-With-Knicks

it didn't have to be this way sunsbros...

Knicks might just be the vibes watch team

Bunch of Nova guys, Mikal and now Cam

I have always liked the Knicks but now they are my 4th favorite team.

#1 - The Phoenix Suns
#2 - Anyone playing the Lakers
#3 - Anyone playing the Celtic - Unless it is the Lakers
#4 - The Knicks

Damn the Knicks are going to be fun to watch this year.

I've always kind of not liked the Knicks, but put Bridges on there, that makes them a lot more interesting to me. Brunson is already a fun player, so now you have most of that Nova championship team + OG. I never liked Randle much but he's another piece, and then they add the guy I wanted to draft Kolek. I did lke Hartenstein though after watching him in the playoffs. OKC paid him a lot but he's a fighter. They should be fun too. But yeah, I never would pull for the Knicks against like the Pacers before but now I probably will for the first time, and of course against Boston, etc. They don't have the talent of Boston but some of their vets are fairly injury prone and getting a big older...without Jrue and KP they would not be as good as the Knicks. Derrick White is 30 now but he's still probably got a while. Holiday is 34. It's weird it seems like he's been healthier the last few years than most of the rest of his career. Horford definitely up there too.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Gary Harris would work for Okogie.

Landale too for Okogie if Plumlee goes down.

Just imagine paying $47 million for Jock Landale.

[Puff]

Gary Harris would work for Okogie.

Landale too for Okogie if Plumlee goes down.

Just imagine paying $47 million for Jock Landale.

Just Imagine Landale as our back up center last year and this year? Maybe we would not have got swept last year while earning a higher seed. We would have had a big this coming year capable of shooting 3 pointers that would fit what Coach Bud likes to do with his offense.

I do not think we could match the salary he received from Houston or at least I hope that was the case. I like him far better than Eubanks and I expect he would be more useful this year than Plumlee.

If Ish is willing to pay for Okogie, why nod Landale? They both have the same base salary 8.0 Mil.

[Mulhollanddrive]

So we did Morris for Gordon and Plumlee for Eubanks

That is very Jones to run it back, if it doesn't work he has to go

[lilfishi22]

Gary Harris would work for Okogie.

Landale too for Okogie if Plumlee goes down.

Just imagine paying $47 million for Jock Landale.

Just Imagine Landale as our back up center last year and this year? Maybe we would not have got swept last year while earning a higher seed. We would have had a big this coming year capable of shooting 3 pointers that would fit what Coach Bud likes to do with his offense.

I do not think we could match the salary he received from Houston or at least I hope that was the case. I like him far better than Eubanks and I expect he would be more useful this year than Plumlee.

If Ish is willing to pay for Okogie, why nod Landale? They both have the same base salary 8.0 Mil.

1. We didn't have a top tier capologist in Matt Tellem on the team at the time so these kinds of moves wouldn't have been on our minds
2. Teams, including us, were still wading through the first offseason with the 2nd apron in place so we just did what most teams have done in the past, what we knew
3. We couldn't match Jock's salary as we didn't have cap space but I do think we would've loved to have kept him on.

[They_Them_Hatin]

So Trent took a minimum for the Bucks. Would love if Suns could get Achiuwa to. Legit could get overpaid next summer playing next to Nurkic this year.

[garrick]

I wonder if the league will eventually crack down on how much teams over the 2nd apron can resign their own free agents.

Teams can do a wink wink deal and offer the minimum the first year and then resign the players without restrictions the following year.

[dremill24]

I wonder if the league will eventually crack down on how much teams over the 2nd apron can resign their own free agents.

Teams can do a wink wink deal and offer the minimum the first year and then resign the players without restrictions the following year.

Even though they've taken recent steps to add new talent much more difficult for expensive teams, the league has been working for years to try to make sure teams have the ability to retain talent they already have. Dont really think that'd be in the cards.

They already have the bird rights rules. You need to have a guy for 2yrs just to get him an Early Bird contract, and a 3rd yr to go above that. So any wink wink deals can take quite a while, and if a guy will wait that long on minimums, he probably didnt have much of a market above that anyway.

[Mr Puddles]

So Trent took a minimum for the Bucks. Would love if Suns could get Achiuwa to. Legit could get overpaid next summer playing next to Nurkic this year.

I just read that the knicks didn't give Precious a qualifying offer? That's insane, dude is a legit player. If we can convince him to sign with us that would be a huge get.

The fact that Grayson exploded next to our big three, and that the Suns honored their commitments by getting Okogie and Royce paid does put us in a good position to get free agents to take a one year pay cut.

[SkyBill40]

So Trent took a minimum for the Bucks. Would love if Suns could get Achiuwa to. Legit could get overpaid next summer playing next to Nurkic this year.

I just read that the knicks didn't give Precious a qualifying offer? That's insane, dude is a legit player. If we can convince him to sign with us that would be a huge get.

The fact that Grayson exploded next to our big three, and that the Suns honored their commitments by getting Okogie and Royce paid does put us in a good position to get free agents to take a one year pay cut.

I don't think we have any more room unless we waive someone, right?

[Bogyo]

So Trent took a minimum for the Bucks. Would love if Suns could get Achiuwa to. Legit could get overpaid next summer playing next to Nurkic this year.

I just read that the knicks didn't give Precious a qualifying offer? That's insane, dude is a legit player. If we can convince him to sign with us that would be a huge get.

The fact that Grayson exploded next to our big three, and that the Suns honored their commitments by getting Okogie and Royce paid does put us in a good position to get free agents to take a one year pay cut.

I'm sure he would get legit playing time as well, as I'm also fairly sure that we will not get another "fully healthy" season out of Nurk. Or Plumlee or KD for that matter either. Precious would have a good chance to start about 20 games on a 50 (ish) win team, or be the first big off the bench in a position of need with a skillset thats also very much needed... If that doesn't get you paid I don't know what does... And this is why I have been beating the drum for 2 years now - leave at least ONE gddmn roster spot for the FA who falls through the cracks of free agency... It could be Precious, it could be someone else like Tyus or Fultz or Okoro, or Covington or even that turd PatBev (if he is still out there). They are all muchmuch better than Rody, who is completely useless in the SL as a 3rd year player...

[SlovenianDragon]

time to get high on the copium because why not gotta try to be optimistic....

The only way the suns do well this season is if Bol Bol starts and improves....Hes our x-factor....The big unkown that can save our season....

Now as much as i love Allen and he fits well with our starters splashing 3s I think he will be better off coming off the bench with the other vets like Morris Oneale and Plumlee. He will add extra scoring and ball-handling to this unit.

On the flip side I dont think Bol Bol will do well on the bench and i dont think he fits in well... I think he will be better utilized in the starting line-up where he wont need to do as much next to the big3... I think the added size and rebounding will help alot and also let KD and Bol Bol play the 3 or the 4 based on matches...Also just strength of switching defense in game...

I really do think Our starting unit will be better with Bol Bol and our bench unit will be better with Allen.

If this happens and Bol Bol can hit new heights and improve on what we saw from him last season the Suns will have one of the best starting units in the NBA. And our bench wont be anything to laugh at either...*huffs copium*

So I say the whole season rests on Bol Bols shoulders...And if our coaching staff unleashes him...

Because its the only way I see us competing...Its the only hope I have...

If we dont maximize Bol Bol then there is no hope.

But if we unleash him we might actually have a chance.

Its really the only thing we have to bet on... No1 else on this roster has the upside or chance he has to change the course of this upcoming season...

If we start Bol Bol it will make me feel like we arent just running it back... Give me something to tune into...Give me some....hope.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

time to get high on the copium because why not gotta try to be optimistic....

The only way the suns do well this season is if Bol Bol starts and improves....Hes our x-factor....The big unkown that can save our season....

Now as much as i love Allen and he fits well with our starters splashing 3s I think he will be better off coming off the bench with the other vets like Morris Oneale and Plumlee. He will add extra scoring and ball-handling to this unit.

On the flip side I dont think Bol Bol will do well on the bench and i dont think he fits in well... I think he will be better utilized in the starting line-up where he wont need to do as much next to the big3... I think the added size and rebounding will help alot and also let KD and Bol Bol play the 3 or the 4 based on matches...Also just strength of switching defense in game...

I really do think Our starting unit will be better with Bol Bol and our bench unit will be better with Allen.

If this happens and Bol Bol can hit new heights and improve on what we saw from him last season the Suns will have one of the best starting units in the NBA. And our bench wont be anything to laugh at either...*huffs copium*

So I say the whole season rests on Bol Bols shoulders...And if our coaching staff unleashes him...

Because its the only way I see us competing...Its the only hope I have...

If we dont maximize Bol Bol then there is no hope.

But if we unleash him we might actually have a chance.

Its really the only thing we have to bet on... No1 else on this roster has the upside or chance he has to change the course of this upcoming season...

If we start Bol Bol it will make me feel like we arent just running it back... Give me something to tune into...Give me some....hope.

I agree that Bol is the X-factor we need to compete, but I prefer Allen or O'Neale with the starters because they're much more effective if they don't have to create for themselves. Bol can generate his own buckets, and our bench will need that. The best 6th men provide a scoring boost, and I don't think Allen can provide that. Based on what I saw last season, Bol Bol can.

$400 million and we have our hopes pinned on a castaway with a minimum deal.

The other guy I think we need to pin our hopes on is Beal. I know for sure that Devin Booker can't handle PG duties, but Beal has the quickness to handle the role on both ends if his body can handle it - and if Bud can scheme it well. As I said in an earlier post, we need an MVP-like season from Brad, as well as a 6MOY-type season from Bol Bol, to be in contention.

I'll bring my hopium for the first couple weeks of the season, but if we're not gelling pretty quick, I'll settle right back into my expectation that this is the year we implode.

... But hey, at least we're not the Wizards, amiright?

[SkyBill40]

He'd never take it, but I think Beal needs to come off the bench until he is FULLY healthy and ready to be the guy we all expect him to be. We need a starting caliber point (Morris isn't it) in order to move Booker back to the SG slot and making him less ball dominant or functioning as a creator (which he isn't). As for O'Neale, he can play the three and I'd be fine with that but would prefer Allen to continue to start. Durant can stay where he is but Nurkic, well, he needs to go and soon. While I know we're already thin in the pivot, we can do with what we now have available.

As I saw elsewhere, we could very nearly do a Nurkic for Russell trade straight up, needing to shed only a little bit of payroll - say, Roddy; and while it bothers me to trade to a division rival (not that I'd expect them to bite on it anyway other than for an expiring), we need a starting point more than we need a flat footed, space eating center.

[bigfoot]

I wonder if the league will eventually crack down on how much teams over the 2nd apron can resign their own free agents.

The CBA is in effect until 28-29 so nothing is changing anytime soon. Right now you have the elite MAX salaries, the exception salaries, the rookie salaries, the vet min salaries, and finally the retained free agent salaries. Players like Grayson, O'Neale, and Okogie fall into the last group and would have gotten significantly reduced salaries this season if it was eliminated by the league for 2nd apron teams. I just don't think the majority of the players would vote for that in the next CBA. They would be hurting their chances of moving from a seven figure salary to a eight figure salary.

[garrick]

I wonder if the league will eventually crack down on how much teams over the 2nd apron can resign their own free agents.

The CBA is in effect until 28-29 so nothing is changing anytime soon. Right now you have the elite MAX salaries, the exception salaries, the rookie salaries, the vet min salaries, and finally the retained free agent salaries. Players like Grayson, O'Neale, and Okogie fall into the last group and would have gotten significantly reduced salaries this season if it was eliminated by the league for 2nd apron teams. I just don't think the majority of the players would vote for that in the next CBA. They would be hurting their chances of moving from a seven figure salary to a eight figure salary.

You would think that but the players association agreed to the last CBA that limited the amount that low tier players could sign for since they can only sign for the minimum with teams above the 2nd apron.

This really limits the destinations they can sign with and they will need to take a significant paycut if they still want to sign with a contending team like Phoenix, this doesn't affect the max players since most of the time they stick with the same team.

[Mulhollanddrive]

The TV rights deal will lead to an increase in player payments by about $3B over 10 years so 3 players on our team may be the David Roddy in negotiations.

[King4Day]

Read on Twitter

If we were to cut Rodd in order to sign one of these guys, who would you prefer?

For me, I would look at it more for, who could we convince to hang on one additional Vet Min year so we could have early bird rights and keep longer term.
Maybe Precious? Though I expect him to return to NY
Tyus is just unlikely to stay long term, BUT, since we're in 'win-now' mode, it's worth a shot.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://valleyofthesuns.com/posts/suns-owner-reveals-how-long-big-3-will-remain-together-and-it-s-not-as-long-as-you-think-mat-ishbia

Owner Mat Ishbia has now come out and given a definitive timeline on just how long the Suns are going to continue as currently constructed.


Speaking on the always excellent "Burns & Gambo" show, Ishbia got honest on just how long the team can continue spending the massive amounts that they currently are (tax bill for next season is over $200 million, again the highest mark in the league) to try and win a championship.

That second apron they're currently operating in as a result of having their three stars alone making over $150 million alone next season is designed to deter organizations from hanging around there for too long, and Ishbia has seemingly gotten the message as he revealed;

"Last year didn’t even count. So, the next two years we are going to be in the second apron and we are going to be very expensive. Luxury tax is going to be high this year, it’s going to be high again next year. And we’re going to compete and we’re going to see how we do. And then the third year we have to try to get out of it."

- Suns' owner Mat Ishbia

Ishbia knows well why he has to get out of that second apron as in the next few years their first round picks are going to be frozen or moved to the back of the first round of the draft. A disastrous outcome for when the time comes and they have to bridge the gap between the Booker era and whatever comes next.

But if you read between the lines, this suggests that the "Big 3" era as we know it has to end then as well. Paying this trio a ton of money beyond that would mean remaining in the second apron, and Ishbia seems pretty adamant about getting out of there. Paying those tax bills alone is hard enough to comprehend, never mind a solid roster.

Two years from now - assuming another contract isn't signed in the meantime - Durant will be an unrestricted free agent. He'll also be 38-years-old. He might be gone before then too, traded to another franchise, although as a result of being in the second apron already that would likely mean getting a player back on similar money for potentially longer which would keep them in this spot.

Beal will be entering the final year of his own deal that summer - he has a player option on his contract - and at over $57 million you can be pretty confident he'll pick that up. He might have a no-trade clause, but Beal could be open to waiving it if it meant being sent somewhere that will sign him to another long-term contract. Something the Suns already don't look like doing.

Booker of course is going nowhere, and no matter what it is likely he will still be in The Valley. But one - if not both - of Durant and Beal are sure to be gone, otherwise Ishbia wouldn't have spoken with such certainty about getting under the second apron. Maybe Durant has retired by then, another wrinkle to consider.

So strap in because we now know for sure this thing has another two years to run as it is, before changes are made in Phoenix. Winning a championship is the only goal, and so far the franchise is off to a rocky start.

So basically, Ishbia's going to try and push this another 2 seasons?

[Qwigglez]

Read on Twitter

If we were to cut Rodd in order to sign one of these guys, who would you prefer?

For me, I would look at it more for, who could we convince to hang on one additional Vet Min year so we could have early bird rights and keep longer term.
Maybe Precious? Though I expect him to return to NY
Tyus is just unlikely to stay long term, BUT, since we're in 'win-now' mode, it's worth a shot.

I'd prefer to take Tyus Jones or Fultz. Between Fultz/Jones and Monte Morris, one of them won't get too much playing time and may likely sign another vet minimum deal with the Suns for one more season, and then the Suns would be able to offer them the higher amount in the summer of 2026.