NBA Draft and NCAA Basketball

[dremill24]

It’s very telling and indicative of times not really changing that the guys everyone seems to love are the ones we see the least of in Doncic and Porter.

[JMac1]

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Not that impressed with his lifting abilities to be honest. However, having never lifted in his life, this guy could fill out very nicely. Where's Jmac to talk about Ayton's fitness level?

he’s a basketball player, I’ll give him a pass. His vert (if no step) is sick though. BTW, I’ll be in LA tomorrow

[darealjuice]

It’s very telling and indicative of times not really changing that the guys everyone seems to love are the ones we see the least of in Doncic and Porter.

I wouldn't put Doncic in that category. He's been starting for Real Madrid since the Llull injury, and he was getting significant playing time before that. He also got a ton of playing time with Slovenia last Summer against some NBA talent, so there was opportunity to see him there too.

[bwgood77]

I've been pretty adamant about getting players who want to be the best. Not just say that though, because I bet most lottery picked players say that, but actually work hard and show that Kobe Bryant like dedication. Booker seems to want it most, and Jackson too. Warren is still improving, but he won't ever be a top 50 player unless he starts nailing threes. Len doesn't want it enough, Bender gets lackadaisical quite often, but has recently been improving. So my biggest worry with Ayton is in line with your biggest worry about him. However, part of me feels like maybe he just hasn't had to overcome some kind of adversity yet, and when he will he will thrive.

I think the guys who truly have that drive to be great in this class are Doncic...obviously since superior athleticism isn't something that was there and he dominates leagues with experienced pros 5-10+ years older than him...many NBA guys in these leagues. He does it with extremely high iq and hard work. He's just a pure winner. Zero doubt in my mind.

Bagley...even though I am not extremely high on him and think he has the wrong weaknesses for the league, he will work hard enough to be successful...successful enough to where he is an all star? Or just a guy that isn't the greatest at what excels and is important in the league but works so hard to stick...I don't know. It won't be for a lack of desire though. He kind of reminds me of Jackson. I really like Jackson, but not sure how many guys you draft just for that sheer determination and hard work despite lacking the right skills for today's league.

I think Young has that drive. I think he will work, and he has a very high IQ and has obviously spent a lot of time shooting.

JJJ wouldn't be that good at defense, blocking shots and 3 pt shooting if he hasn't worked REALLY hard....those are not easy skills to just suddenly have without hard work.

Porter - hard to get a read on.

Ayton - he has the body, the gifts, no trouble scoring, mostly due to size..but, he can knock down shots, shoots fairly well and is a solid rebounder....not a guy that seems like he will work really hard to get good at D.

Bamba...no clue what he wants. Smart kid though...great raw skills and length. If he didn't have that length would anyone care about him? I don't know. I'd probably stay away from him if I was in the top 7 and maybe after that...but hard to read..I'd need to have more insight.

[Christine-In-AZ]

I don't watch much college ball, but I do (will do) a deep youtube dive in March and April to form some more opinions...find some "favorites" based on Suns draft position(s) and needs.

Right now based on just a little college ball viewing, reading, and leaning on hunches...plus I also think it's close to impossible to accurately grade how 18-19 year olds will do in the NBA, even by so-called experts...If someone said "the Suns will come out of this draft with"-

Marvin Bagley and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (at like #14-#16). I'd take it today. Come March or April? I could easily feel very differently.

-(irrationally) I want the home town blood for the timelime
-A Trae Young pick scares me. Can't really explain it.
-I just like what I've seen in Shai's game

Stupid early, based on scant little knowledge, but there it is

I'll be back later

[Mulhollanddrive]

Polls usually end up going with position of need so Ayton will take over from Doncic and Young.

But if we consider fit how many non-shooters outside 16 feet can we have? Payton, Jackson, Warren, Ayton would be 60% of our scoring.

[ATTL]

ayton is my guy, I'm going to will it into existence.

[lilfishi22]

I'm fine with either guys at #1 (although I would've liked Porter as an option). I went with Ayton mainly because it's a position of need whereas we'll have a logjam at the wings with Doncic. Not that that would stop me from drafting Doncic if he was available since I'd be more than happy to move the roster around to make a spot for him.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Payton, Booker, Jackson, Bender, Ayton

Looks like a pretty complete lineup if a 2nd star can rise and they can each get their 3 point shooting to 35%.

[bwgood77]

I'm fine with either guys at #1 (although I would've liked Porter as an option). I went with Ayton mainly because it's a position of need whereas we'll have a logjam at the wings with Doncic. Not that that would stop me from drafting Doncic if he was available since I'd be more than happy to move the roster around to make a spot for him.

Yeah, Ayton is enticing, though what he does against not so great college competition isn't even in the realm of what Doncic has been doing against great competition.

I understand the need thing, but I would hate to pass on the next great thing because of it. I think you have to draft Doncic at 1 no question regardless of the type of player you need. My gut tells me McD might take Ayton ahead of him though based on most of his picks kind of being for need and current roster makeup.

[MrMiyagi]

I'm fine with either guys at #1 (although I would've liked Porter as an option). I went with Ayton mainly because it's a position of need whereas we'll have a logjam at the wings with Doncic. Not that that would stop me from drafting Doncic if he was available since I'd be more than happy to move the roster around to make a spot for him.

Yeah, I'm in a similar spot. Ayton and Doncic are each unflappable, skilled, and physically gifted. I think we need Ayton more.

There are so many opportunities on both sides of the court that are blown because Alex Len doesn't really know how to rebound. Sure he gets credited with a lot of rebounds, but Ayton actually grabs the damn ball. He also can score in the post. You can give him the ball and let him go to work. He knows how to pass out of a double team. He can also hit face-up jump shots (we'll see how far he can stretch it). His defense isn't dominant, but he's still a good defender.

Payton covers some of the playmaking we've desperately needed, perhaps not as much as Doncic or Young could, but I think he also brings better defense than either of them (again, like DeAndre, not necessarily a dominant defender, but still a good one). I do think we still need to address outside shooting. Reed might be an answer, there also might be options in free agency or with our second draft pick. But I think this would still be the case if we were to draft Young or Doncic, in addition to finding a big man that helps on both sides of the ball.

[MrMiyagi]

I'm fine with either guys at #1 (although I would've liked Porter as an option). I went with Ayton mainly because it's a position of need whereas we'll have a logjam at the wings with Doncic. Not that that would stop me from drafting Doncic if he was available since I'd be more than happy to move the roster around to make a spot for him.

Yeah, Ayton is enticing, though what he does against not so great college competition isn't even in the realm of what Doncic has been doing against great competition.

I understand the need thing, but I would hate to pass on the next great thing because of it. I think you have to draft Doncic at 1 no question regardless of the type of player you need. My gut tells me McD might take Ayton ahead of him though based on most of his picks kind of being for need and current roster makeup.

I think you're thinking about it the wrong way, they're both the next great thing. They just play different positions.

[lilfishi22]

I'm fine with either guys at #1 (although I would've liked Porter as an option). I went with Ayton mainly because it's a position of need whereas we'll have a logjam at the wings with Doncic. Not that that would stop me from drafting Doncic if he was available since I'd be more than happy to move the roster around to make a spot for him.

Yeah, Ayton is enticing, though what he does against not so great college competition isn't even in the realm of what Doncic has been doing against great competition.

I understand the need thing, but I would hate to pass on the next great thing because of it. I think you have to draft Doncic at 1 no question regardless of the type of player you need. My gut tells me McD might take Ayton ahead of him though based on most of his picks kind of being for need and current roster makeup.

If we were in some sort of dream scenario where we had the highest probability of a top pick and we actually got the top pick, it would be a great problem to have. That being said, I'm not suggesting we should prioritise need over BPA but imo BPA between Doncic, Ayton (and MPJ) imo is pretty damn close. So if I took Ayton over Doncic, it would be because I thought he was BPA not because he fit our roster better.

In the poll above, I took Ayton because I assumed they were equal from a talent/potential standpoint so I took him because he then fit our 2nd criteria which is need. For that matter, Doncic is not my clear #1 but neither is Ayton. MPJ is my #1 but that could change in the next hour, next day, next month.

[Saberestar]

I'm fine with either guys at #1 (although I would've liked Porter as an option). I went with Ayton mainly because it's a position of need whereas we'll have a logjam at the wings with Doncic. Not that that would stop me from drafting Doncic if he was available since I'd be more than happy to move the roster around to make a spot for him.

Yeah, Ayton is enticing, though what he does against not so great college competition isn't even in the realm of what Doncic has been doing against great competition.

I understand the need thing, but I would hate to pass on the next great thing because of it. I think you have to draft Doncic at 1 no question regardless of the type of player you need. My gut tells me McD might take Ayton ahead of him though based on most of his picks kind of being for need and current roster makeup.

I think exactly the opposite.

McDonough loves european prospects, he has drafted already three of them (IIRM) in Len, Bogdanovic and Bender.

I think he had in his mind Doncic when he talked to Dragic a couple of months ago, trying to repair their relationship. He knows that Dragic is like a mentor for Doncic, and it is always a good thing to have him on your side.

Position is not a problem. Doncic can play PG/SG/SF.

I am almost sure that Doncic is #1 in McDonough's mind and Trae is #1 in Booker's mind.

[MathiasPW]

The Stepien has a new write-up on JJJ that really makes him look like the best big man in this class. Worth a read, as it shows more aspects to his game other than shotblocking and 3-pt shooting.

[MathiasPW]

I think he had in his mind Doncic when he talked to Dragic a couple of months ago, trying to repair their relationship. He knows that Dragic is like a mentor for Doncic, and it is always a good thing to have him on your side.

Good catch. Had not thought about that.

[Wilber85]

I'm fine with either guys at #1 (although I would've liked Porter as an option). I went with Ayton mainly because it's a position of need whereas we'll have a logjam at the wings with Doncic. Not that that would stop me from drafting Doncic if he was available since I'd be more than happy to move the roster around to make a spot for him.

Yeah, Ayton is enticing, though what he does against not so great college competition isn't even in the realm of what Doncic has been doing against great competition.

I understand the need thing, but I would hate to pass on the next great thing because of it. I think you have to draft Doncic at 1 no question regardless of the type of player you need. My gut tells me McD might take Ayton ahead of him though based on most of his picks kind of being for need and current roster makeup.

I think Arizona would beat some of the Euroleague teams! They are trash man.

[matt131]

Man this is so tough. Obviously I am no draft expert nor am I really able to assess talent. I also rarely watch college basketball, but last night I decided to watch the Arizona vs Arizona State game. Dang Ayton looks massive and athletic. But also, for being that big and athletic, he looked absolutely uninterested in playing any sort of defense, especially help defense. I know he has a ridiculous vertical and is already super tall, but I don't think he tried once to block a layup as a help defender. I don't know if I am explaining that correctly, but I can remember times where massive centers or athletic big men in the NBA come out of nowhere and swat the ball away on a shot attempt anywhere near the basket. Ayton never even attempted this (from what I saw of the game at least).

There were also times Ayton's man would be on the perimeter and a shot would go up and Ayton would just stand there and his man would sneak in and try to get the offensive board. Now, of course Ayton is talented and very, very gifted, but his apparent lapses on defense and his tendency to simply watch a shot go up and not react is somewhat concerning. I don't know if the Suns have the ability to teach him these skills/motivation (and honestly, we don't really seem to have the best track record with developing young big men recently), but it is something that actually puts Ayton behind Doncic for me, even though I think our team would be most helped by a stud big man.

[bwgood77]

I'm fine with either guys at #1 (although I would've liked Porter as an option). I went with Ayton mainly because it's a position of need whereas we'll have a logjam at the wings with Doncic. Not that that would stop me from drafting Doncic if he was available since I'd be more than happy to move the roster around to make a spot for him.

Yeah, Ayton is enticing, though what he does against not so great college competition isn't even in the realm of what Doncic has been doing against great competition.

I understand the need thing, but I would hate to pass on the next great thing because of it. I think you have to draft Doncic at 1 no question regardless of the type of player you need. My gut tells me McD might take Ayton ahead of him though based on most of his picks kind of being for need and current roster makeup.

I think you're thinking about it the wrong way, they're both the next great thing. They just play different positions.

If AZ struggles so much to win with him, when, even not counting him, they have more talent than 95% of the teams they play, why would he be a huge difference maker for the Suns, when we have less talent than the vast majority of the teams we play?

Bigs are usually able to dominate more at the college level than the pros too because it's not quite like the pro style of spread offense. All the dominant bigs in the nba can shot the 3 and block shots, or are premier shot blockers/defenders if they don't hit the 3. Ayton does look like he might eventually become a good 3 pt shooter and is ok at blocking shots.

Don't get me wrong, it would be very nice to have him....I'm just not sure his impact would be quite as big. Though he could end up like Towns even with the bad defense who suddenly improves in that area in year 3, but didn't make a huge impact on winning until they got Butler. I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. I'll be stoked if we get him.....just not sure he is a clear winner like Doncic. Guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Duncan, Towns, Cousins and Davis all led their teams to championships in college or very deep in the tourney as top seeds. We will see if Ayton does.

Bird (who Doncic's upside is compared to) led a school you never hear of with not so great players to the championship to lose to Magic's good Mich St team.

[bwgood77]

I'm fine with either guys at #1 (although I would've liked Porter as an option). I went with Ayton mainly because it's a position of need whereas we'll have a logjam at the wings with Doncic. Not that that would stop me from drafting Doncic if he was available since I'd be more than happy to move the roster around to make a spot for him.

Yeah, Ayton is enticing, though what he does against not so great college competition isn't even in the realm of what Doncic has been doing against great competition.

I understand the need thing, but I would hate to pass on the next great thing because of it. I think you have to draft Doncic at 1 no question regardless of the type of player you need. My gut tells me McD might take Ayton ahead of him though based on most of his picks kind of being for need and current roster makeup.

I think exactly the opposite.

McDonough loves european prospects, he has drafted already three of them (IIRM) in Len, Bogdanovic and Bender.

I think he had in his mind Doncic when he talked to Dragic a couple of months ago, trying to repair their relationship. He knows that Dragic is like a mentor for Doncic, and it is always a good thing to have him on your side.

Position is not a problem. Doncic can play PG/SG/SF.

I am almost sure that Doncic is #1 in McDonough's mind and Trae is #1 in Booker's mind.

Trae because Booker knows him? He seems to like to be the guy who wants the ball the most and to take the most shots. With Trae that might not come as easy. Though they would make each other's games SO much easier and both probably hit like 43%+ from deep and we could erase deficits and build leads in a hurry. If you love it when Booker gets hot, that type of excitement would probably double with Trae. If only Trae had someone like that next to him in college to relieve the double and triple teams.