Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working

[bwgood77]

Suns with 10 or so games remaining that should be competitive/winnable. Can they hit 20 wins this season?

I hope so.

If we can end the season with 22W going 10W-10L in the last 20 games we would have some hope for next season.

I want to watch more games like the last one against the Lakers...PLEASE.

I think we can probably hit 20 if TJ is back soon and we stay healthy. We have been a decent team when all of Book, Melton and TJ have been healthy. Add in Johnson who I think is better than people give him credit for due to his effort, hustle, activeness, I think we can be fairly tough.

I really really like that Booker is now talking about how you can't win without stops. I think coaching is getting through to him...him talking about that AND team play is huge. The team seems to finally start to come together. Though Jackson has been on the bench down the stretch in our wins..I think that is a big part...you can't have such inefficient play on high usage from a player and hope to win with our overall talent level and youth....especially if we have injuries to good players.

[bwgood77]

Dont try to talk yourself into these guys. That pick is a goner if we dont get Zion or Ja.

I think its only Zion

what does Ja Morant do for the Suns the next four years better than a guy like Cory Joseph or Darren Collison

my answer - not a damn thing. Suns need to start getting better.

Suns need to move the pick if its not Zion and get veteran players who can help you win games

I see two guys in Tyler Johnson and Oubre - you can see how having experience in the league helps. Suns do not need another guy that is going to need to learn how to play the game

Part of me is ready to give Johnson (Tyler) 4/36 to see if he would decline his option for 17m of "new money"

No, we can't start giving out contracts like that to avg players just to save a little money this year.

[bwgood77]

As a Bulls fan, I'm not worried about how to fit Zion in, if we got lucky enough to get him. There's plenty of minutes for everyone. Including plenty of time for a WCJ/Lauri/Zion front court, with Otto sliding to the 2 and LaVine being the primary ballhandler. They're running those two in back court sets on occasion already.

Assuming we don't wind up with the top pick, my hope is you guys actually get it. Because it at least leaves us a relatively clear path to Morant.

Funny you post this...I hadn't read it yet and posted my thoughts (from how I would feel from a Bulls fan perspective) to an earlier post a few responses up. Yeah, people act like depth and a good big rotation won't work....that's a perfect front court rotation...and all on rookie contracts. If they all need maxes later you deal with it then and trade when they have more value.

[bwgood77]

Ja Morant is most overrated prospect from this year’s draft imo.

He’s hyped up mainly because this draft is so god awful with PG prospects.

There is a wide range on him. I talked to two scouts recently who don't like him at all...like borderline top 10...one said not worth lotto pick. I have to watch some and figure out why such a huge range of thoughts though.

Just from the surface, I'm not as high on him as I was Trae, but of course it's a weaker draft, so I guess he could rank higher...though Trae hovered around 3 or 4 all year for me.

It's hard to deny the numbers, though I wish his shooting was better....of course shooting, defense and turnovers are the biggest problems and those are the Suns biggest problems...in addition to rebounding which he obviously doesn't help either.

But getting everyone involved and another offensive option, if efficient, would be huge...so I need to start watching. I don't watch too much too early because we still have nearly 4 months to the draft. We will have far more coverage, meaningful games, etc, of them to view within the next month.

[BobbieL]

Dont try to talk yourself into these guys. That pick is a goner if we dont get Zion or Ja.

I think its only Zion

what does Ja Morant do for the Suns the next four years better than a guy like Cory Joseph or Darren Collison

my answer - not a damn thing. Suns need to start getting better.

Suns need to move the pick if its not Zion and get veteran players who can help you win games

I see two guys in Tyler Johnson and Oubre - you can see how having experience in the league helps. Suns do not need another guy that is going to need to learn how to play the game

Part of me is ready to give Johnson (Tyler) 4/36 to see if he would decline his option for 17m of "new money"

No, we can't start giving out contracts like that to avg players just to save a little money this year.

He already will cost 6.4m for three years if stretched. What’s another 2.6m for three years than 9m in year 4.

[bwgood77]

I am officially in the re-sign Oubre for the same size deal as TJ's and flip TJ in the off-season...

Why? He is less efficient, lower bbiq, bad 3 pt shooter, and passes even less. He is possibly a slightly better defender one on one and counting stats...but when it comes to team defense, rotating, he is terrible...near the very bottom in DRPM for SFs http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM/position/5

Per 36, TS%, 3pt shooting, etc...

http://bkref.com/tiny/CDKE6

TJ is such a clutch go to.

I appreciate Oubre's personality but his play is often very frustrating even though he can look really good at times...it just feels deceiving because it happens infrequently.

TJ is reliably efficient and was really improving under Igor....and a very hard worker.

I don't totally mind keeping Oubre, though it kind of seems like a waste of money since he'd never start on a good team and I wouldn't pay that much for a backup, and at $12 million we already have a better player in TJ.

[Revived]

Ja Morant is most overrated prospect from this year’s draft imo.

He’s hyped up mainly because this draft is so god awful with PG prospects.

There is a wide range on him. I talked to two scouts recently who don't like him at all...like borderline top 10...one said not worth lotto pick. I have to watch some and figure out why such a huge range of thoughts though.

Just from the surface, I'm not as high on him as I was Trae, but of course it's a weaker draft, so I guess he could rank higher...though Trae hovered around 3 or 4 all year for me.

It's hard to deny the numbers, though I wish his shooting was better....of course shooting, defense and turnovers are the biggest problems and those are the Suns biggest problems...in addition to rebounding which he obviously doesn't help either.

But getting everyone involved and another offensive option, if efficient, would be huge...so I need to start watching. I don't watch too much too early because we still have nearly 4 months to the draft. We will have far more coverage, meaningful games, etc, of them to view within the next month.

I think easy to get #s in college based on athleticism and being more athletic and bigger than other players.

Things that actually translate are skilled attributes like shooting, passing, defending, ball security etc.

I would trade the pick for Holliday instead of using it on Morant.

[lilfishi22]

Ja Morant is most overrated prospect from this year’s draft imo.

He’s hyped up mainly because this draft is so god awful with PG prospects.

There is a wide range on him. I talked to two scouts recently who don't like him at all...like borderline top 10...one said not worth lotto pick. I have to watch some and figure out why such a huge range of thoughts though.

Just from the surface, I'm not as high on him as I was Trae, but of course it's a weaker draft, so I guess he could rank higher...though Trae hovered around 3 or 4 all year for me.

It's hard to deny the numbers, though I wish his shooting was better....of course shooting, defense and turnovers are the biggest problems and those are the Suns biggest problems...in addition to rebounding which he obviously doesn't help either.

But getting everyone involved and another offensive option, if efficient, would be huge...so I need to start watching. I don't watch too much too early because we still have nearly 4 months to the draft. We will have far more coverage, meaningful games, etc, of them to view within the next month.

I think easy to get #s in college based on athleticism and being more athletic and bigger than other players.

Things that actually translate are skilled attributes like shooting, passing, defending, ball security etc.

I would trade the pick for Holliday instead of using it on Morant.

Likewise. I think Morant is skilled but it's hard to judge especially since this year's crop of PG's is pretty shallow. I don't buy into those numbers.

[Crives]

There is a wide range on him. I talked to two scouts recently who don't like him at all...like borderline top 10...one said not worth lotto pick. I have to watch some and figure out why such a huge range of thoughts though.

Just from the surface, I'm not as high on him as I was Trae, but of course it's a weaker draft, so I guess he could rank higher...though Trae hovered around 3 or 4 all year for me.

It's hard to deny the numbers, though I wish his shooting was better....of course shooting, defense and turnovers are the biggest problems and those are the Suns biggest problems...in addition to rebounding which he obviously doesn't help either.

But getting everyone involved and another offensive option, if efficient, would be huge...so I need to start watching. I don't watch too much too early because we still have nearly 4 months to the draft. We will have far more coverage, meaningful games, etc, of them to view within the next month.

I think easy to get #s in college based on athleticism and being more athletic and bigger than other players.

Things that actually translate are skilled attributes like shooting, passing, defending, ball security etc.

I would trade the pick for Holliday instead of using it on Morant.

Likewise. I think Morant is skilled but it's hard to judge especially since this year's crop of PG's is pretty shallow. I don't buy into those numbers.

I think it’s critical that our next pg compliments Booker with strong perimeter defense.

From what I’ve seen Ja is not a strong defender. He looks like he would be great 6th man spark off the bench, but we need to prioritize our assets to get starting pg/pf first if possible.

Did scouts mention anything about Ja’s defensive potential in a few years?

[lilfishi22]

Just looked at Beal's stats without Wall this season

With Wall v Without Wall:
23.5p v 28.8p
4.8r v 5.4r
4.7a v 6.3a
1.1s v 1.9s
0.9b v 0.6b
2.5to v 3.4to
.474FG% v .484FG%
.339 3P% v .364 3P%
36.6mpg v 38.5mpg
.571TS% v .579TS%
1.57A:T v 2.1A:T

[lilfishi22]

I think easy to get #s in college based on athleticism and being more athletic and bigger than other players.

Things that actually translate are skilled attributes like shooting, passing, defending, ball security etc.

I would trade the pick for Holliday instead of using it on Morant.

Likewise. I think Morant is skilled but it's hard to judge especially since this year's crop of PG's is pretty shallow. I don't buy into those numbers.

I think it’s critical that our next pg compliments Booker with strong perimeter defense.

From what I’ve seen Ja is not a strong defender. He looks like he would be great 6th man spark off the bench, but we need to prioritize our assets to get starting pg/pf first if possible.

Did scouts mention anything about Ja’s defensive potential in a few years?

Lacking, unfocused and low intensity are key words I've read in many scouting reports. Of course everyone also mentions his excellent physical attributes which would give him the tools to be elite defensively but someone who doesn't play with high intensity, especially on the defensive ends rare improve significantly at the NBA level. Barbosa is a classic example of a guy with above average athleticism, focus and length (I think he had a 6'11 wingspan or something) who never put it together defensively.

Pair that with his poor shooting from beyond the arc and he becomes a difficult draft prospect to really project at the NBA level. Things like shooting and technical defense can be fixed but mental attributes like defensive intensity and focus is a little more difficult if it's lacking now

[bwgood77]

We’ve gone from a team of guards to a team of forwards. Why did we sign Ray Spalding to a 2 year deal? We already have all the forwards we need plus we’re drafting Zion or Barrett if we’re in the top 2.

Likely as a favor for the agent of Terry Rozier, unfortunately.

https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Aaron-Turner/759

[bwgood77]

Alex Len with 28. 9. 2. 2 and 5 3s (5-8 from 3) http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401071619

[Sal85012]

I am officially in the re-sign Oubre for the same size deal as TJ's and flip TJ in the off-season...

Why? He is less efficient, lower bbiq, bad 3 pt shooter, and passes even less. He is possibly a slightly better defender one on one and counting stats...but when it comes to team defense, rotating, he is terrible...near the very bottom in DRPM for SFs http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM/position/5

Per 36, TS%, 3pt shooting, etc...

http://bkref.com/tiny/CDKE6

TJ is such a clutch go to.

I appreciate Oubre's personality but his play is often very frustrating even though he can look really good at times...it just feels deceiving because it happens infrequently.

TJ is reliably efficient and was really improving under Igor....and a very hard worker.

I don't totally mind keeping Oubre, though it kind of seems like a waste of money since he'd never start on a good team and I wouldn't pay that much for a backup, and at $12 million we already have a better player in TJ.

Oubre brings more energy and heart. He is often in the game when they make their runs. Very confident guy and I think it has been a bonus for the sunse. Tj gets good stats but then again when I see him play I don’t necessarily see the team doing well. I would say that what I see from him is that he looks complacent. We need guys that are hungry to right the ship.

[lilfishi22]

We’ve gone from a team of guards to a team of forwards. Why did we sign Ray Spalding to a 2 year deal? We already have all the forwards we need plus we’re drafting Zion or Barrett if we’re in the top 2.

Likely as a favor for the agent of Terry Rozier, unfortunately.

https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/Aaron-Turner/759

Also there's only a partial guarantee for next season which is probably going to end up being in the hundreds of thousands. This is no more than signing him to the rest of the season and giving us the rights to keep him around next season on the cheap.

[bwgood77]

I am officially in the re-sign Oubre for the same size deal as TJ's and flip TJ in the off-season...

Why? He is less efficient, lower bbiq, bad 3 pt shooter, and passes even less. He is possibly a slightly better defender one on one and counting stats...but when it comes to team defense, rotating, he is terrible...near the very bottom in DRPM for SFs http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM/position/5

Per 36, TS%, 3pt shooting, etc...

http://bkref.com/tiny/CDKE6

TJ is such a clutch go to.

I appreciate Oubre's personality but his play is often very frustrating even though he can look really good at times...it just feels deceiving because it happens infrequently.

TJ is reliably efficient and was really improving under Igor....and a very hard worker.

I don't totally mind keeping Oubre, though it kind of seems like a waste of money since he'd never start on a good team and I wouldn't pay that much for a backup, and at $12 million we already have a better player in TJ.

Oubre brings more energy and heart. He is often in the game when they make their runs. Very confident guy and I think it has been a bonus for the sunse. Tj gets good stats but then again when I see him play I don’t necessarily see the team doing well. I would say that what I see from him is that he looks complacent. We need guys that are hungry to right the ship.

Before TJ went down we beat the Nuggets, Kings and only lost on the road to the Raps, Spurs and Wolves on buzzer beaters. When he went down we went on a huge losing streak. Getting Tyler Johnson has finally helped, but TJ simply adds a lot more. Oubre does provide energy and is a decent energy bench guy.

He usually until last night is one of our biggest negative guys as far as +/- goes....which reflects in is RPM...Bridges is 20th among SFs, TJ 30th, Oubre 65th and Jackson 80th. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/5

I wouldn't call TJ complacent....you don't shoot 42,000 shots over the summer when complacent. He's just smooth and focused. Oubre does bring energy but often he is kind of all over the place on defense, and very sporadic on offense scoring...when he looks good it looks impressive, but he often takes a lot of shots in a game, missing most of them, when we have far better offensive options.

I think we may keep him though, and maybe overpay him, only because I am not sure about our front office and if I think they will have a proper plan.

I really hope our offseason isn't signing Rozier and Oubre.

[AtheJ415]

I am officially in the re-sign Oubre for the same size deal as TJ's and flip TJ in the off-season...

Why? He is less efficient, lower bbiq, bad 3 pt shooter, and passes even less. He is possibly a slightly better defender one on one and counting stats...but when it comes to team defense, rotating, he is terrible...near the very bottom in DRPM for SFs http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM/position/5

Per 36, TS%, 3pt shooting, etc...

http://bkref.com/tiny/CDKE6

TJ is such a clutch go to.

I appreciate Oubre's personality but his play is often very frustrating even though he can look really good at times...it just feels deceiving because it happens infrequently.

TJ is reliably efficient and was really improving under Igor....and a very hard worker.

I don't totally mind keeping Oubre, though it kind of seems like a waste of money since he'd never start on a good team and I wouldn't pay that much for a backup, and at $12 million we already have a better player in TJ.

Oubre brings more energy and heart. He is often in the game when they make their runs. Very confident guy and I think it has been a bonus for the sunse. Tj gets good stats but then again when I see him play I don’t necessarily see the team doing well. I would say that what I see from him is that he looks complacent. We need guys that are hungry to right the ship.

He's also often on the court when we get obliterated. His advanced numbers are nowhere close to as good as TJ's, and it's not just because he's on the Suns. His numbers in WA were garbage also. He needs to shoot a hell of a lot better to warrant taking the amount of shots he takes, particularly with the lack of passing. He has potential because he's a fantastic athlete for his size, but he misses basic passes to shoot contested jumpers and that's a thing he will have to improve on if he ever wants to be a starter quality dude in this league. He's only starting right now because he's on our team, and frankly, there is no comparison between him and TJ. TJ is another world in efficiency, and while Oubre is a pesky defender the gap between Oubre and TJ on offense is so gynormous that no reasonable person could favor Oubre right now all else equal.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I think easy to get #s in college based on athleticism and being more athletic and bigger than other players.

Things that actually translate are skilled attributes like shooting, passing, defending, ball security etc.

I would trade the pick for Holliday instead of using it on Morant.

Likewise. I think Morant is skilled but it's hard to judge especially since this year's crop of PG's is pretty shallow. I don't buy into those numbers.

I think it’s critical that our next pg compliments Booker with strong perimeter defense.

From what I’ve seen Ja is not a strong defender. He looks like he would be great 6th man spark off the bench, but we need to prioritize our assets to get starting pg/pf first if possible.

Did scouts mention anything about Ja’s defensive potential in a few years?

You should be rooting for Melton to develop if you want a defender next to Booker. Probably won't see a guy with more defensive upside this draft.



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[DirtyDez]

Brogdon
Booker
Bridges
Siakam
Ayton

[Ghost of Kleine]

Alex Len with 28. 9. 2. 2 and 5 3s (5-8 from 3) http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401071619

So upon reflection, Would he still be considered a bad pick for us in the lottery, Or more likely, Yet another example of our front offices lack of ability to develop talent properly???


I'm curious as to the percentage of former players that we have given up on, etc. Only to go on and perform better for other teams?