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2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

Do you truly expect the Suns to win the finals this year?

Yes
18
55%
No
15
45%
 
Total votes: 33

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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1521 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:58 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
I'd rather have the problem of not having enough minutes to go around than losing depth through gutting the team. We got unlucky (or lucky, depending on how you see it) being relatively healthy throughout the regular season only for our key guys to start getting injured in the playoffs (CP3 shoulder/wrist, Booker nose/hammy, Dario knee, Cam ankle). This is planning for those moments. I'd love Barnes too and there was a mention on the Timeline Podcast about possibly targeting Eric Gordon (likely post buy-out) which I like too.

Ultimately, I think it might just be a super simple trade of Smith + 2nd for Craig. We get a guy who was a proven contributor to our Finals run and I believe a key big wing connector that we're missing. Indy ditches salary next season, pick up a 2nd and I don't believe there is much, if any attachment to Craig as a player or person so they basically signed + paid Craig for only a few months and turning that into two potential assets in Smith and a 2nd.


I'm not sure I'd consider surrendering Saric/ Smith/ 1st gutting the team if it meant that Barnes was coming back. Now the rotation might need some adjustments for such a deal of course. But at that point, I'm looking towards:

Starters-
Paul/ Book/ Bridges/ Barnes/ Ayton.

2nd unit ( Bench)-
Payne/ Shamet/ Crowder/ Johnson/ Mcgee.

* Crowder leads the bench defensively with McGee. And Payne, Shamet, Johnson handle the offense. :wink:

Again in this deal we're basically giving up only Saric/ Smith/ 1st in the deal. I might even give up an additional first ( lottery protected) to get this deal done too. But I see getting Barnes for only Saric ( who likely isn't playing this season), Smith who we aren't likely keeping, and a pick or two worth the improved lineup above!!

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant in a bigger trade for a Sabonis or Grant where we're likely to have to give up a one or two key contributors. I don't care too much about Smith or Saric since they are basically non-contributors at this point.

I also really like Cam so I'm not sure I'd want to part ways with him to bring in Barnes but I think from a value standpoint, it makes sense


No worries man!
:thumbsup:
We all know that of the majority of posts on here, It's my posts that are predominantly confusing, convoluted and otherwise outliers.
I find your posts to be quite well articulated. All in all, I probably should have communicated my trade premise better. Let me try it this way:

Phx/ Houston/ Sacramento:

Sacramento gets-
Christian Wood/ Saric / Phoenix first.

Houston gets-
Smith/ 1st ( we could throw in Nader or Hutchinson if needed)?

Phoenix gets-
Harrison Barnes.
But I wouldn't want yo give up Johnson either. Ultimately I added an additional first to Sacramento to sweeten the deal a bit.

Perhaps even this revision might be more palatable for everyone.

Houston gets-
Bagley/ Smith/ 1st ( Phx).

Sacramento gets-
Wood/ Saric/ 1st ( Phx).

Phoenix gets-
Harrison Barnes.

We end up surrendering Saric/ Smith/ 2 firsts for Barnes. But I think our improved depth and still keeping Cam Johnson makes that gamble worth it. :wink:

**Then when Crowder expires, We just look to find a quality backup Small forward. Craig conveniently is unrestricted in 2023 I believe. So perhaps we add him back in Crowders' bench role on the cheap? :wink:
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1522 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:18 am

Gerald Bourguet (@GeraldBourguet) Tweeted:
Monty Williams says Deandre Ayton (non-COVID illness) is out tonight. Jalen Smith (non-COVID illness) is out as well.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Jalen Smith trade immenent!! :o
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1523 » by Saberestar » Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:19 am

These players are known leaguewide as One-Year Birds. They can still be dealt before the Feb. 10 trade deadline but must give their consent to be included in any deal, because they would forfeit Bird Rights for the 2022 offseason upon switching teams.

https://marcstein.substack.com/p/the-2021-22-all-no-trade-team?justPublished=true

Abdel Nader and Frank Kaminsky are two of them. Interesting that they can block any trade.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1524 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:35 pm

I realize that having us miss this many players is quite likely an anomalous event. But I have to wonder why unlike other teams have done in the past, We haven't utilized a 10 day contract on a big in order to have actual insurance against a severely depleted frontcourt and lack of size. Surely there are a number of big man options still available out there via the GLeague, etc.

The only conclusion that I have come to currently, aside from us just being apathetic to accumulating losses is that WE ACTUALLY DO HAVE a planned trade in place for the 15th. And we can't really use that additional slot now, as we need to keep it open for an incoming player or two in the framework of whatever Jones has planned for Wednesday??

Glaring Needs -
( Our lack of legitimate quality depth was exposed last night). Most of our bench consist of cast off bargain bin scrubs and washed vets just getting barely getting by.

More size-
We clearly need more size for our frontcourt. Our 6'6 - 6'7 Wings, especially those that are barely fringe nba players just can't be expected to get it done. We just can't match other teams size. And our small ball schemes are currently lousy ( because we don't have players that are fast or possess elite athleticism.

Shot Creators-
We very obviously need some legitimate options for players that can create their own offense in isolation situations outside of Paul.
Payne ( for whatever reason) isn't getting it done, and Bridges isn't consistently aggressive. Galloway for all his negatives is a cheap example of a player capable of generating instant offense. I'm not saying he should be our primary consideration, But a player along those lines that can generate potent offense for us off the bench.

3 pt defense/ rim protection-
In most all of our losses the consistent contributing factors ( aside from us not being able to hit threes at a decent clip) has been opposing teams killing us from three, and our lack of rim protection whenever McGee sits. Now I've mentioned an obvious expiring option that addresses both of those issues cheaply. But I know that some on here would prefer not to make that consideration! Nevertheless, we need to find another player with those attributes and skillsets to be that defensive connector off our bench. IF we can just defend the three point line better, We can feasibly cut our losses in half.

Rebounding-
Another contributing factor in our few losses, But significant in that they must be corrected is our inconsistent rebounding efforts at times. We must add a strong rebounding glue guy "dirt worker " presence to our frontcourt. One player that I have mentioned and I'm sure there are others too would be Tristan Thompson (who leads the league in offensive rebounding). Honestly I don't care who we target to address this need, But pray it isn't another undersized cast off looking for redemption. And rather a known commodity with a strong reputation towards that need.

The trade market opens in two days. We really need to be aggressive and clever in addressing these obvious weaknesses with our team. Which potential players do you guys think best address the needs that are realistically attainable for us through either buyout or minimal trade?? :dontknow:
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1525 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:01 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:Gerald Bourguet (@GeraldBourguet) Tweeted:
Monty Williams says Deandre Ayton (non-COVID illness) is out tonight. Jalen Smith (non-COVID illness) is out as well.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Jalen Smith trade immenent!! :o
Image
They can barely field a team right now they ain't holding him out because of a trade. Come on.

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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1526 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:14 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Gerald Bourguet (@GeraldBourguet) Tweeted:
Monty Williams says Deandre Ayton (non-COVID illness) is out tonight. Jalen Smith (non-COVID illness) is out as well.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Jalen Smith trade immenent!! :o
Image
They can barely field a team right now they ain't holding him out because of a trade. Come on.

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Yeah! That'd be crazy right!
Because teams never ever do that right before a trade do they??? :roll:
It Just seems convenient that he's now sitting out right before he can be traded on the 15th. Also right around the same time that we are hearing reports of other team's professed interest in him too. And just after he had a somewhat breakout performance that likely somewhat elevated his percieved value. Again, the timing just seems really convenient, or rather inconvenient considering our severe lack of big man depth and his need for securing more playing time to showcase himself prior to his own free agency. But perhaps you may be right? Or you may not? I guess we'll see on the 15th. Until then it's all mere speculation......Yes? :nod:
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1527 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:16 am

David (@theIVpointplay) Tweeted:
It's Dec 15 here, so just want to clear something up in regards to PHX trades....

The Suns CAN trade a future 1st, if they want. The OKC pick is all but certain to convey this year, so PHX can just say "next available" & the receiving team can be fairly certain when that begins.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1528 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:52 am

Bgood was already talking about Tyus Jones!
Zona (@ZonaHoops_) Tweeted:
Highest AST/TO ratios in the NBA among qualifiers:

1) Tyus Jones- 5.67
2) Chris Paul- 4.31
3) TJ McConnell- 4.11
4) Tim Hardaway Jr.- 3.81
5) Derrick White- 3.50

Considering the volume + risk involved in some of CP3's passes, it's a pretty absurd number.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

And he's right that he'd be an amazing get for us IF he wasn't securely in the Grizz long term plans whilst covering for Morant during injury. We should still look into it though even at the possibility of an overpay scenario. However, IF that option becomes a " no go" situation for us, Then what about his brother Tre Jones? He's pretty solid ( except from three) as a facilitator, with a 3.1 assist ratio, and is a great defender. Currently with both Murray and White in the rotation for San Antonio, He really might be an under the radar get for us. At the very least he'd be an upgrade to Payton.

Other question that I have is if Payne doesn't get it together soon, Would / should we consider trading him an another asset for Brunson whose also very solid with a 3.4 assist ratio, and is a championship teammate and good friend of Bridges from Villanova. I get that he should be getting paid fairly well this summer, But maybe say a package of Saric/ Smith/ Payton/ first for Brunson and Moses Brown could help us clear space to resign him?

Else I'm sure Tre Jones would be attainable from the Spurs for Smith and a 2nd. And we could get back Jones and Eubanks or Jones and Weiscamp for added shooting? Then add a big ( Thompson or Young from the buyout pool? :dontknow:
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1529 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:07 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:Bgood was already talking about Tyus Jones!
Zona (@ZonaHoops_) Tweeted:
Highest AST/TO ratios in the NBA among qualifiers:

1) Tyus Jones- 5.67
2) Chris Paul- 4.31
3) TJ McConnell- 4.11
4) Tim Hardaway Jr.- 3.81
5) Derrick White- 3.50

Considering the volume + risk involved in some of CP3's passes, it's a pretty absurd number.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

And he's right that he'd be an amazing get for us IF he wasn't securely in the Grizz long term plans whilst covering for Morant during injury. We should still look into it though even at the possibility of an overpay scenario. However, IF that option becomes a " no go" situation for us, Then what about his brother Tre Jones? He's pretty solid ( except from three) as a facilitator, with a 3.1 assist ratio, and is a great defender. Currently with both Murray and White in the rotation for San Antonio, He really might be an under the radar get for us. At the very least he'd be an upgrade to Payton.

Other question that I have is if Payne doesn't get it together soon, Would / should we consider trading him an another asset for Brunson whose also very solid with a 3.4 assist ratio, and is a championship teammate and good friend of Bridges from Villanova. I get that he should be getting paid fairly well this summer, But maybe say a package of Saric/ Smith/ Payton/ first for Brunson and Moses Brown could help us clear space to resign him?

Else I'm sure Tre Jones would be attainable from the Spurs for Smith and a 2nd. And we could get back Jones and Eubanks or Jones and Weiscamp for added shooting? Then add a big ( Thompson or Young from the buyout pool? :dontknow:


Jones expires when we likely move on from CP3 and Morant's max kicks in. They are also paying Melton quite a bit and have Bane and Brooks.

I think we could outbid them if we wanted with no CP3, Crowder or Saric at that point.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1530 » by Mulhollanddrive » Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:04 am

We've been 6 points worse offensively without Booker.

I'm thinking the Charlotte game as a return date would give him 20 days since the injury.

Also Utah have a block of 42 games coming up where they play GSW and Phoenix 8 times.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1531 » by bigfoot » Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:22 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:I realize that having us miss this many players is quite likely an anomalous event. But I have to wonder why unlike other teams have done in the past, We haven't utilized a 10 day contract on a big in order to have actual insurance against a severely depleted frontcourt and lack of size. Surely there are a number of big man options still available out there via the GLeague, etc.

The only conclusion that I have come to currently, aside from us just being apathetic to accumulating losses is that WE ACTUALLY DO HAVE a planned trade in place for the 15th. And we can't really use that additional slot now, as we need to keep it open for an incoming player or two in the framework of whatever Jones has planned for Wednesday??

Glaring Needs -
( Our lack of legitimate quality depth was exposed last night). Most of our bench consist of cast off bargain bin scrubs and washed vets just getting barely getting by.

More size-
We clearly need more size for our frontcourt. Our 6'6 - 6'7 Wings, especially those that are barely fringe nba players just can't be expected to get it done. We just can't match other teams size. And our small ball schemes are currently lousy ( because we don't have players that are fast or possess elite athleticism.

Shot Creators-
We very obviously need some legitimate options for players that can create their own offense in isolation situations outside of Paul.
Payne ( for whatever reason) isn't getting it done, and Bridges isn't consistently aggressive. Galloway for all his negatives is a cheap example of a player capable of generating instant offense. I'm not saying he should be our primary consideration, But a player along those lines that can generate potent offense for us off the bench.

3 pt defense/ rim protection-
In most all of our losses the consistent contributing factors ( aside from us not being able to hit threes at a decent clip) has been opposing teams killing us from three, and our lack of rim protection whenever McGee sits. Now I've mentioned an obvious expiring option that addresses both of those issues cheaply. But I know that some on here would prefer not to make that consideration! Nevertheless, we need to find another player with those attributes and skillsets to be that defensive connector off our bench. IF we can just defend the three point line better, We can feasibly cut our losses in half.

Rebounding-
Another contributing factor in our few losses, But significant in that they must be corrected is our inconsistent rebounding efforts at times. We must add a strong rebounding glue guy "dirt worker " presence to our frontcourt. One player that I have mentioned and I'm sure there are others too would be Tristan Thompson (who leads the league in offensive rebounding). Honestly I don't care who we target to address this need, But pray it isn't another undersized cast off looking for redemption. And rather a known commodity with a strong reputation towards that need.

The trade market opens in two days. We really need to be aggressive and clever in addressing these obvious weaknesses with our team. Which potential players do you guys think best address the needs that are realistically attainable for us through either buyout or minimal trade?? :dontknow:


Man, this is a super hot take with all of our depth out because of injury or illness. Booker, Kaminsky, Nader, Smith, and Saric. You have to realize that NBA has specific dates when moves can be made. In particular, the December 15th date where free agent signings can be traded. So, many of the players we'd want aren't available until, well today. Secondly, 10-day contracts can not be offered until January 5th. Filling that 15th spot to eliminate playing Wainright and Payton is gonna take a while. Be patient ... hell the Suns have lost only 5 games but your making it sound like it's more like 15. The biggest need to me is another bench scorer/playmaker. Our starting unit with Booker and CP3 is fine. When Payne struggles, the bench seems to as well. Acquiring someone like Derrick Rose would be much preferable than say, Thad Young.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1532 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:13 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Gerald Bourguet (@GeraldBourguet) Tweeted:
Monty Williams says Deandre Ayton (non-COVID illness) is out tonight. Jalen Smith (non-COVID illness) is out as well.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Jalen Smith trade immenent!! :o
Image
They can barely field a team right now they ain't holding him out because of a trade. Come on.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app


Yeah! That'd be crazy right!
Because teams never ever do that right before a trade do they??? :roll:
It Just seems convenient that he's now sitting out right before he can be traded on the 15th. Also right around the same time that we are hearing reports of other team's professed interest in him too. And just after he had a somewhat breakout performance that likely somewhat elevated his percieved value. Again, the timing just seems really convenient, or rather inconvenient considering our severe lack of big man depth and his need for securing more playing time to showcase himself prior to his own free agency. But perhaps you may be right? Or you may not? I guess we'll see on the 15th. Until then it's all mere speculation......Yes? :nod:
If Smith gets traded in the next couple days you can change my aviator and sig to whatever you want.

I'd bet he just got sick, which isn't shocking since Ayton just had the flu.


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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1533 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:42 pm

We've focused on how much juice we've lacked on offense without Booker, but I think we're worse defensively as well. Shamet gets abused on switches and isn't that good on defense generally. I prefer him on defense to Wainwright as well - probably Elf as well. Payne has actually impressed me with his defense, so no complaint there.

Strange to find myself missing Booker's defense. Goes to show how much he's improved.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1534 » by Jdiddy701 » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:04 pm

Purely speculating - I wonder if Ayton and Stix recently got a booster shot. I think that makes more sense why Ayton was on the bench against the Clippers.


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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1535 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:06 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:Purely speculating - I wonder if Ayton and Stix recently got a booster shot. I think that makes more sense why Ayton was on the bench against the Clippers.


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Or they simply got the flu.

This board needs to apply a little more Occam's Razor reasoning sometimes. The simple explanation is often the correct one.

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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1536 » by Jdiddy701 » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:06 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:We've focused on how much juice we've lacked on offense without Booker, but I think we're worse defensively as well. Shamet gets abused on switches and isn't that good on defense generally. I prefer him on defense to Wainwright as well - probably Elf as well. Payne has actually impressed me with his defense, so no complaint there.

Strange to find myself missing Booker's defense. Goes to show how much he's improved.

Landry Shamet has been disappointing on both ends. I applauded James Jones for getting a contract done, but man was I wrong. I think we pulled the trigger too soon. Good news is that I think it’s an easy contract to trade if we need to.


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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1537 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:29 pm

Spoiler:
bigfoot wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:I realize that having us miss this many players is quite likely an anomalous event. But I have to wonder why unlike other teams have done in the past, We haven't utilized a 10 day contract on a big in order to have actual insurance against a severely depleted frontcourt and lack of size. Surely there are a number of big man options still available out there via the GLeague, etc.

The only conclusion that I have come to currently, aside from us just being apathetic to accumulating losses is that WE ACTUALLY DO HAVE a planned trade in place for the 15th. And we can't really use that additional slot now, as we need to keep it open for an incoming player or two in the framework of whatever Jones has planned for Wednesday??

Glaring Needs -
( Our lack of legitimate quality depth was exposed last night). Most of our bench consist of cast off bargain bin scrubs and washed vets just getting barely getting by.

More size-
We clearly need more size for our frontcourt. Our 6'6 - 6'7 Wings, especially those that are barely fringe nba players just can't be expected to get it done. We just can't match other teams size. And our small ball schemes are currently lousy ( because we don't have players that are fast or possess elite athleticism.

Shot Creators-
We very obviously need some legitimate options for players that can create their own offense in isolation situations outside of Paul.
Payne ( for whatever reason) isn't getting it done, and Bridges isn't consistently aggressive. Galloway for all his negatives is a cheap example of a player capable of generating instant offense. I'm not saying he should be our primary consideration, But a player along those lines that can generate potent offense for us off the bench.

3 pt defense/ rim protection-
In most all of our losses the consistent contributing factors ( aside from us not being able to hit threes at a decent clip) has been opposing teams killing us from three, and our lack of rim protection whenever McGee sits. Now I've mentioned an obvious expiring option that addresses both of those issues cheaply. But I know that some on here would prefer not to make that consideration! Nevertheless, we need to find another player with those attributes and skillsets to be that defensive connector off our bench. IF we can just defend the three point line better, We can feasibly cut our losses in half.

Rebounding-
Another contributing factor in our few losses, But significant in that they must be corrected is our inconsistent rebounding efforts at times. We must add a strong rebounding glue guy "dirt worker " presence to our frontcourt. One player that I have mentioned and I'm sure there are others too would be Tristan Thompson (who leads the league in offensive rebounding). Honestly I don't care who we target to address this need, But pray it isn't another undersized cast off looking for redemption. And rather a known commodity with a strong reputation towards that need.

The trade market opens in two days. We really need to be aggressive and clever in addressing these obvious weaknesses with our team. Which potential players do you guys think best address the needs that are realistically attainable for us through either buyout or minimal trade?? :dontknow:


Man, this is a super hot take with all of our depth out because of injury or illness. Booker, Kaminsky, Nader, Smith, and Saric. You have to realize that NBA has specific dates when moves can be made. In particular, the December 15th date where free agent signings can be traded. So, many of the players we'd want aren't available until, well today. Secondly, 10-day contracts can not be offered until January 5th. Filling that 15th spot to eliminate playing Wainright and Payton is gonna take a while. Be patient ... hell the Suns have lost only 5 games but your making it sound like it's more like 15. The biggest need to me is another bench scorer/playmaker. Our starting unit with Booker and CP3 is fine. When Payne struggles, the bench seems to as well. Acquiring someone like Derrick Rose would be much preferable than say, Thad Young.


Is it really though??? :dontknow:
I realize that we're in an anomalous situation with our injuries affecting our overall depth ( as I stated in my post). I also get that the nba has specific dates for which we have to wait to be able to add players in case of injury depletion. But two points on this injury/ depth argument:

1- We should have looked to utilize free agency better than just adding cast off bargain options in Payton, Hutchinson, Wainwright rather than more established and proven impact players even near the end of free agency. Could we really not have filled that additional two way slot with more legitimate size for insurance with Sarics' injury situation and in knowing the potential for injuries and/ or possible Covid restrictions affecting our depth. Or perhaps IF we had only spent on better legitimate available options that could have added more measurable production during these injuries as opposed to what Payton, Hutchinson and Wainwright have been unable to provide? Technically we have 5 roster spots adding close to or no impact whatsoever in terms of production. How many other actual contending teams share that situation?

2- Could we not with 6 players being out due to extensive injury longer than two weeks ( Saric/ Kaminsky/ Nader and even Booker) or with sickness, And once we knew that with Kaminskys' injury likely keeping him out as well most ( if not all) of the season, leaving us without two of our frontcourt rotation players, filed for hardship exceptions? You know, as other teams such as the Chicago bulls and Memphis have recently done. So that we can address these depth concerns with a minimum ( non guaranteed) 10 day contract option?

Wouldn't that be a more reasonable option than trying to trot out our 3rd string fringe bust nba cast offs into starting and secondary impact roles against other teams starters and high end bench players, knowing that they're not at all ready or capable of sustaining the level of production needed to keep us viable with sustained success during this outlier situation?

I also get that it's only 5 losses currently. I really do. And I'm not at all looking to overreact here. The actual entire premise of my post isn't even about our depth or injury issues if were being honest. It's quite simply that in all of our losses, The contributing factors have ( as stated above in my post) been the same. And my post was about actually looking to upgrade the fringe roster positions that are exacerbating these issues even aside from our additional depth issues.


Agree or disagree, I just don't think we can be considered legitimate title contenders without upgrading from Payton, Hutchinson, Wainwright and even Nader whose majority contribution to our team since being here is knee injuries and mediocre/ inconsistent play. As the season wears on, And as more and more teams identify and expose our repetitive weaknesses that have continually contributed to our losses, We'll have to rely much more heavily on a shortened roster to offset the lack of LEGITIMATE QUALITY depth from our bench. Meaning our starters and remaining key bench players will have to log more significant minutes during games. And with that lack of rest, I don't need to tell you how that c as n further exacerbate potential injuries and severe add fatigue to those players even before we get to the playoffs. Isn't having actual quality depth about being able to rest your star or key players as to avoid potential injuries and to allow for fresh legs and fully rested starters towards a legitimate championship run??

Can you honestly tell me that given Saric's injury, Kaminskys' injury, Naders' repetitive knee injuries, Booker's troublesome hamstring, Paul's age and injury history, McGee's foul accumulation propensity, etc. That you feel confident in any of Payton, Hutchinson, Wainwright, even Smith ( currently) to carry our bench production so we can rest our key players down the stretch??

Given those considerations, Is it really that much of an extreme hot take to feel that we need to upgrade our bench from those players?

Again, I get that we only (currently) have 5 losses. Which is great so far! But we both know that it doesn't take much for losses to build up fast. Or for teams to get in a slump. Especially if their starters get worn down over having to play extensive minutes. Kind of like Ayton had to do last night along with Paul recently to help carry the production. Which neither have should have had to do given their respective situations ( Ayton being sick) or Paul ( his age/ durability concerns). Our current bench just doesn't offer/ capable of the legitimate quality
Production needed to weather these situations against other teams higher tier established veteran benches. We need to upgrade our bench in certain areas. AND we also need to look to address these repeated areas of weakness during our games. IF we can upgrade to the proper bench personnel, Then we can add specific players with skillsets that will shore up these weaknesses that have repeatedly contributed to teams beating us. As well as negate a measurable number of these close to the wire games causing us to have to play our starters extended minutes this early into the season.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1538 » by Slim Charless » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:31 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:We've focused on how much juice we've lacked on offense without Booker, but I think we're worse defensively as well. Shamet gets abused on switches and isn't that good on defense generally. I prefer him on defense to Wainwright as well - probably Elf as well. Payne has actually impressed me with his defense, so no complaint there.

Strange to find myself missing Booker's defense. Goes to show how much he's improved.


Cam should've been starting at the 3 while moving Mikal to the 2 imo. Landry needs to stay on the bench...or rather the gym while shooting roughly 100k three pointers every day, since he can't hit anything now :nonono: :nonono:
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1539 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:48 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:They can barely field a team right now they ain't holding him out because of a trade. Come on.

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Yeah! That'd be crazy right!
Because teams never ever do that right before a trade do they??? :roll:
It Just seems convenient that he's now sitting out right before he can be traded on the 15th. Also right around the same time that we are hearing reports of other team's professed interest in him too. And just after he had a somewhat breakout performance that likely somewhat elevated his percieved value. Again, the timing just seems really convenient, or rather inconvenient considering our severe lack of big man depth and his need for securing more playing time to showcase himself prior to his own free agency. But perhaps you may be right? Or you may not? I guess we'll see on the 15th. Until then it's all mere speculation......Yes? :nod:

If Smith gets traded in the next couple days you can change my aviator and sig to whatever you want.

I'd bet he just got sick, which isn't shocking since Ayton just had the flu.


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Lol!.................... No need or interest in that man! :D

I get that you think it's quite a longshot. And that's a fair perspective of course. It'd be pretty boring if everyone on this board always had the same perspectives. Anyways, I apologize if I was being passive aggressive. :-?
I just didn't care for the " come on" portion of the reply because for the longest time everyone on this board as well as outside of it has been prognosticating/ anticipating trades around Smith. And now that were a few days out of that actual possibility AND right after him having a good showing AND us being ridiculously shorthanded in our frontcourt size, AND right after hearing multiple reports of teams indicating interest to the suns in trading for him just two days out from the trade window opening, He's suddenly sitting out for the game. Also after looking fine in practice earlier in the same day as well, AND of course as history has repeatedly shown in the NBA in these scenarios, teams repeatedly keeping players included in trades out of games as to not risk injury or potentially damage percieved value prior to the trade. It just seems incredibly convenient.

Or as I stated you could be right, and this could just be an extreme outlier scenario wherein Smith suddenly got sick out of nowhere after looking fine in practice earlier that day. And just coming off a very good showing the previous game too. Perhaps we just have terrible luck again? Nothing is truly outside of the realm of possibility though in the NBA! " where impossible happens " as the saying goes right? :dontknow:
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1540 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:19 pm

Gerald Bourguet (@GeraldBourguet) Tweeted:
Deandre Ayton's raised his scoring from 15.4 PPG to 21.2 PPG over the last 5 games with Booker largely out, but he's being more aggressive in other ways that help the Suns too:

First 14 games: 1.2 APG, 1.8 FTAs
Last 5 games: 2.2 APG, 5.4 FTAs
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Kinda crazy!
But goes along with what many have postulated on here already in the Ayton bring worth a max value discussion. As the offense primarily runs through our guards, it somewhat takes away from Aytons' statistical production as he gets less focus in the offensive scheme and is limited to a more supplementary role. But this should be an indicator as to his potential as a 3rd option and percieved contractual value.
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