The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime!

[jcsunsfan]

As I have been saying early on it's either the QO or our offer. And it's going to be a wait.

So 4 years/48 million is the Suns only and final offer. They absolutely will not negotiate money or years or other parameters. The Suns will not even consider something such as 3 years at 12m, 12m, PO 14m? Contract offer adjustments will not happen. Period.

And Paul will not even try to push the Suns for any movement, it's simply max or nothing...for any team Eric plays for in 14-15. That means there is exactly zero chance of a sign and trade.

I have been of a mind, that both sides would eventually "get creative" and get something done in late September, but apparently both camps have basically shut it down.

If I have any of the Suns stance wrong, please advise.

So, its the QO then. I do not see any other alternative, but then I am not inside Rich Paul's head. Massive game of chicken going on here.

[NavLDO]

As I have been saying early on it's either the QO or our offer. And it's going to be a wait.

So 4 years/48 million is the Suns only and final offer. They absolutely will not negotiate money or years or other parameters. The Suns will not even consider something such as 3 years at 12m, 12m, PO 14m? Contract offer adjustments will not happen. Period.

And Paul will not even try to push the Suns for any movement, it's simply max or nothing...for any team Eric plays for in 14-15. That means there is exactly zero chance of a sign and trade.

I have been of a mind, that both sides would eventually "get creative" and get something done in late September, but apparently both camps have basically shut it down.

If I have any of the Suns stance wrong, please advise.

I'm not sure that the Suns aren't willing to negotiate. It sounds like Bledsoe's camp is the only "black and white" offer on the table--Max or no deal--and if they aren't willing to cave, then I only see one option and that is the QO, because no team is willing to pay the Max in a S&T, and the Suns (I hope) aren't foolish enough to pay him the Max either.

Fine by me. Let him play for $3.7M. And I'd play him about 36-38 minutes a game, too. May as well make him earn that $3.7M. He won't "feign" injury, because that will only lower his value next year as a UFA. So we get a quality starting PG (potentially, top 5 PG) for a full season to help us possibly make the playoffs. Sounds good to me. Then he can go find a Max next year, and I'm fine with that. And those that feel we didn't get anything in return, I say, sure we did, we got a top NBA talent to play for our team for a bargain basement cost for a year.

[RunDogGun]

As I have been saying early on it's either the QO or our offer. And it's going to be a wait.

So 4 years/48 million is the Suns only and final offer. They absolutely will not negotiate money or years or other parameters. The Suns will not even consider something such as 3 years at 12m, 12m, PO 14m? Contract offer adjustments will not happen. Period.

And Paul will not even try to push the Suns for any movement, it's simply max or nothing...for any team Eric plays for in 14-15. That means there is exactly zero chance of a sign and trade.

I have been of a mind, that both sides would eventually "get creative" and get something done in late September, but apparently both camps have basically shut it down.

If I have any of the Suns stance wrong, please advise.

I'm not sure that the Suns aren't willing to negotiate. It sounds like Bledsoe's camp is the only "black and white" offer on the table--Max or no deal--and if they aren't willing to cave, then I only see one option and that is the QO, because no team is willing to pay the Max in a S&T, and the Suns (I hope) aren't foolish enough to pay him the Max either.

Fine by me. Let him play for $3.7M. And I'd play him about 36-38 minutes a game, too. May as well make him earn that $3.7M. He won't "feign" injury, because that will only lower his value next year as a UFA. So we get a quality starting PG (potentially, top 5 PG) for a full season to help us possibly make the playoffs. Sounds good to me. Then he can go find a Max next year, and I'm fine with that. And those that feel we didn't get anything in return, I say, sure we did, we got a top NBA talent to play for our team for a bargain basement cost for a year.

Funny, but I would still bring him off the bench, and May or may not play him big minutes. If we lose him, and our goal is to keep a two point starting group, why wait a year to do a Dragic/IT line up?

[Kerrsed]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l9drdg7

Hawks get Monroe
Pistons get Bledsoe
Suns get Milsap/Jennings

I posted this on a thread on the tradeboard and it seems well received by all parties.

Jennings/Thomas/Ennis
Dragic/Green/Goodwin
Tucker/Warren/McMorris
Milsap/MkMorris/Toliver
Plumlee/Len/Randolph

Jennings would take over Bledsoes role and i think he would really shine and DOMINATE in our uptempo system. $8M a season for the next 2 years isnt that bad of a deal either. With Milsap added to the crew, i think we could be a top 5 team in the West.

[aIvin adams]

^ atl (next to horford) does seem like a good spot for Monroe. nice use of trade machine

[JTrain]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l9drdg7

Hawks get Monroe
Pistons get Bledsoe
Suns get Milsap/Jennings

I posted this on a thread on the tradeboard and it seems well received by all parties.

Jennings/Thomas/Ennis
Dragic/Green/Goodwin
Tucker/Warren/McMorris
Milsap/MkMorris/Toliver
Plumlee/Len/Randolph

Jennings would take over Bledsoes role and i think he would really shine and DOMINATE in our uptempo system. $8M a season for the next 2 years isnt that bad of a deal either. With Milsap added to the crew, i think we could be a top 5 team in the West.

This would be fantastic if we had a handshake agreement with Milsap for next year.

[Kerrsed]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l9drdg7

Hawks get Monroe
Pistons get Bledsoe
Suns get Milsap/Jennings

I posted this on a thread on the tradeboard and it seems well received by all parties.

Jennings/Thomas/Ennis
Dragic/Green/Goodwin
Tucker/Warren/McMorris
Milsap/MkMorris/Toliver
Plumlee/Len/Randolph

Jennings would take over Bledsoes role and i think he would really shine and DOMINATE in our uptempo system. $8M a season for the next 2 years isnt that bad of a deal either. With Milsap added to the crew, i think we could be a top 5 team in the West.

This would be fantastic if we had a handshake agreement with Milsap for next year.

That would be against the CBA, but we would have his bird rights and could match any offer. Im sure if we preformed as well as i think we could with that squad, Milsap would be more than happy to stay a Sun.

[phrazbit]

Couple things. We'd have Milsap's Bird Rights, true, but being able to match any offer only applies to restricted free agents.

Also, Jennings could in no stretch of the imagination fill the role that Bledsoe does. He is an abysmal defensive player, and a pretty questionable offensive talent too. Jennings is purely a gunner, a straight up ball hog, but one who absolutely sucks at shooting.

I would not want Jennings at any price. In my opinion, he is a straight up bad player.

[JDLAW]

The Suns would NOT have Bird rights for Milsap. He signed a 2-year deal with Atl so at most he would be able to get is Early Bird rights. He would not even have those if traded. To get Bird Rights, he needs to spend 3 consecutive years with the same team. To acquire early Bird rights he needs to spend 2 consecutive years with the same team. He played 1 year with the Hawks and has no Bird Rights of any kind. If traded to the Suns the clock starts again.

In other words, the Suns would have to have sufficient cap space to sign Milsap when his contract runs out - cannot rely on Bird exception.

[Kerrsed]

Couple things. We'd have Milsap's Bird Rights, true, but being able to match any offer only applies to restricted free agents.

Also, Jennings could in no stretch of the imagination fill the role that Bledsoe does. He is an abysmal defensive player, and a pretty questionable offensive talent too. Jennings is purely a gunner, a straight up ball hog, but one who absolutely sucks at shooting.

I would not want Jennings at any price. In my opinion, he is a straight up bad player.

Ball hog? You mean the guy who average 2 more assists per game than our own Goran Dragic? Jennings was in the top 10 for assists last season. And that was on a super suckage Detroit team. Imagine what he could do with a team that had players who could actually shoot! As for his shooting, its not as bad as the numbers look. The Pistons were pretty damn bad last year. There were plenty of times that the shot clock was winding down and the ball gets passed to Jennings at the last second to bail them out. Running our duel-PG system would take some of that pressure off Jennings and allow Dragic to set him up instead of him always having to set himself up.

He is Young, has no injury history at all, can score the ball in many different ways and is a great passer. He is still on a decent priced contract. Of course he can replicate everything Bledsoe does, no one can, but he could help fill the gap nicely in other ways when Bledsoe is gone.

As for attitude, everyone thought that with his talent and swagger that he would be per-madonna, but he has actually been quite the opposite. He played in Milwaukee for christs sake, and never had a bad thing to say about it. He then gets traded to that hell hole known as Detroit (fun fact: You cant spell Detroit without Riot!), and still has not bad mouthed the town or asked to be traded to better city.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x81iKi2goUQ[/youtube]

The video i really wanted to post wont let me due to the fact that the address in the link has letter close to a curse word, so the curse filter blocks it out, but do yourself a favor and watch this video:

http://youtu.be/NsvtKWhf Vck (Take out the space inbetween f & V)

Add in that you are ALSO getting Milsap, who is actually the main piece in the trade. I'd take that deal any day of the week and twice on Sunday!

[bwgood77]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l9drdg7

Hawks get Monroe
Pistons get Bledsoe
Suns get Milsap/Jennings

I posted this on a thread on the tradeboard and it seems well received by all parties.

Jennings/Thomas/Ennis
Dragic/Green/Goodwin
Tucker/Warren/McMorris
Milsap/MkMorris/Toliver
Plumlee/Len/Randolph

Jennings would take over Bledsoes role and i think he would really shine and DOMINATE in our uptempo system. $8M a season for the next 2 years isnt that bad of a deal either. With Milsap added to the crew, i think we could be a top 5 team in the West.

That's a decent deal, but IT is better than Jennings. Jennings is probably better as a 6th man (though IT might be too). But I like Millsap and I think is pretty good value for all teams considering our circumstances and Detroit's with Monroe. Atlanta would love Millsap anyway so it's a huge win for them.

I'd rather end up with Teague then Jennings though. If Atlanta would take Jennings, and we could get Teague it would be great.

[lilfishi22]

I'm still of the mindset that the 2 PG line up worked because there is at least one above average defender and the other being decent. This is why I am not big on Dragic/IT on the floor for long periods of time. Jennings/Dragic gives me a similar feeling.

[NotTraxxe]

I still haven't seen anyone offer a reason (beyond just speculation) as to why Bledsoe hasn't spoken to the Suns himself. Is this just ad odd strategy being employed by Paul, or is Bledsoe angry?

Usually teams talk to agents about money and contracts.

Bledsoe did not have many peers on the team. He was not a detractor but he wasn't a positive either for chemistry. He worked hard and was very business like about his play. The thing that is strange is not that they haven't talked to Bledsoe about his contract but that they have not talked at all. Period.

Bledsoe and his agent set their position as max or no conversations and no forward movement.

As I have been saying early on it's either the QO or our offer. And it's going to be a wait.

What is your or your source's feeling about the possibility that Bledsoe would accept something like 4/54 if that's what it comes down to?

Bledsoe and his agent are playing hardball. That's normal.

Towards the deadline we will try and compromise and change offers. No need or sense to do it now. Every day that passes his chances of offers shrivel up and his market value drops. Dragging this out serves our interests. It's just a matter of if he is willing to risk playing for the QO or not.

My sources don't get that detailed. I wouldn't know what he wil accept other than wantig a max deal.

[phrazbit]

Jennings is as bad a shooter as the stats look, and he undoubtedly an inept defender. You're correct that he frequently takes late clock shots, but that is NOT because of his teammates, its because Brandon Jennings is among the kings of wasted possession and dribbles way the clock until a bad shot is the only option. Coincidentally it also is how he frequently gets his assists, by passing late in the clock to someone who has no choice but to shoot. He gets assists the same way Stephon Marbury did, not because he is particularly good at setting guys up or a savvy passer, but largely because Jennings consistently dominates the basketball. Basically Jennings is a terrible version of Stephon Marbury... and IMO Marbury was one of the most overrated players in NBA history.

Brandon Jennings is cut from the same cloth as Beasley. A guy who people look at some of the base stats and get fooled into thinking he is productive. But a closer inspection reveals a truly bad player, who hurts his team on both ends of the court and would require a lobotomy in order to change. And please, don't jump the gun and think I am calling Jennings a pot head, ect ect and the other problems that people associate with Beasley. My main beef with Beasley was that he was a flat out horrible NBA player, Jennings is not quite as terrible as Beasley... but he is a bad player.

[drewsprocket]

that's confusing. They don't really think that's going to work to get a max contract. You either get one or you don't. Waiting for the last second is won't garner a better deal from us apart from just raising concerns and attention. Bledsoe is glad I guess to be Paul's guinea pig

[LukasBMW]

Interesting to hear that Bledsoe was neither a positive or negative locker room influence.

There were times I saw him cheering his ass off on the sidelines. But then we also saw his calm or careless demeanor when being pranked (Dragic- star wars prank) or giving interviews.

Is Bledsoe just a boring and dull guy? Or does he really want to play elsewhere?

But if not here? Where would he want to play? LA? Miami? With his butt buddy Lebron? There are lots of places worse then Phoenix.

[thamadkant]

1. Jennings on a PG/SG friendly system could be a much more efficient player, he has the offensive arsenal, but lacks efficiency. But in a "free reign" system, who knows.

2. Defensively, anyone replacing Bledsoe outside of the elite defensive PGs is a downgrade...
In any case, if any trade (Bledsoe out), I rather get a "big" SG/SF who can defend, hence that Taj/Butler trade was pretty good in the trade forum, but it doesnt make sense for Bulls, since then they'll have 2 PGs with questionable knees... assuming Bulls rather get Bledsoe than trade him to a 3rd team. In any case, they'll likely request another big back... Randolph lol.

[bwgood77]

that's confusing. They don't really think that's going to work to get a max contract. You either get one or you don't. Waiting for the last second is won't garner a better deal from us apart from just raising concerns and attention. Bledsoe is glad I guess to be Paul's guinea pig

It could. That's pretty much their only hope now. Let it get very close, like until Sept 30th close, and see if we call up and say "ok, 4/56" or whatever.

But I think if we didn't make that call, he'd sign our deal, or call with 24 hours left and say "ok, how about 4/64?" Then we would counter with "no, we would be willing to go up to 4/52 and that's it"

Then they probably say something like "ok, then expect us to take the QO". Then they wait until the last minute and call and say ok, we will do 4/56, or something like that, and maybe we accept, and maybe we stand at 4/52 and say we can't go higher than that, so if you need to take the QO then go ahead" and they would 99% chance accept that.

It's going to work out something like that imo.

[Jdiddy701]

If the Suns ever got Brandon Jennings, I would cry. I rather have Archie starting.


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[jredsaz]

In other words, the Suns would have to have sufficient cap space to sign Milsap when his contract runs out - cannot rely on Bird exception.

According to cbafaq, Non-Bird free agents require a 120% cap hold when they enter free agency. In this scenario, Milsap would have a cap hold of $11.4 Million on the Suns books in the summer of 2015.

Does Milsap's cap hold allow the Suns to sign him prior to addressing the status of the other 2015 cap holds, Green and the Morri in particular?