Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[thamadkant]

See, I don't agree with all this Archie hate. Makes no sense. Yes, it looks like Booker is going to be a superior player. But I think Archie remains a great talent. Based on his SL play, I think his passing and shooting have improved substantially. His real problem right now is that he can't really control anything on the floor - he has a ways to go. But he's still really, really young, and very athletic. And he works hard. And I'd be SHOCKED if we didn't extend his rookie contract for another year.

The problem is that we're just not a very good fit for him. We can't spare minutes for his development, though he's worthy of development. The problem is, who's going to give us anything of value in trade if we can't get him on the floor? We won't give him up for nothing, because he is talented. Can he be a starter in the league? He's got a ways to go, but there isn't a whole lot of talent at the two spot in this league.

I don't think he'll be happy sitting on the bench all year, and he CERTAINLY won't be happy if Booker leapfrogs him. Therein lies the problem. The thing I hope for at this point is Archie + 2nd rounder for a 1st rounder. Or maybe he surprises us and really steps up this year. He's just so young, I don't think it makes sense to cast judgment at this point. But maybe he needs to go overseas for a while to learn a thing or two. Personally, I'd hate to see it.

Cozmo speaks the truth in my books.


The SL recently showed Goodwin improving in his shooting and put up good numbers but apparently he was bad.

People compare Booker who is a cerebral player who will rely on his IQ and shooting skills to get by, Goodwin is more of a raw talent/athleticism type to get by ... Similar to Wiggins but Wolves will cater to Wiggins to develop him properly as he is their future. Goodwin doesnt have that luxury and must be shaped to what the suns need....

If the Suns was in rebuild mode and can spare 20 minutes a night on developing players properly then it would be fine but sadly for Len and Goodwin, they either play a needed role now or just play little minutes.
Len has gotten more chances and I was expecting him to get 30 minutes a game next season but thats gone now with Chandler... Instead Len will have develop slower than what he could be doing.


Booker will find a role once he develops his body, next season Weems, Goodwin will play more guard minutes IMO whilst Booker develops in D-league, he may then get called back later in the season ala TJ Warren last season.

[Saberestar]

Asked if he is happy with his Suns situation, Morris said: “Excited. Happy to be back. Happy to be with my team. I haven’t seen them all summer. We haven’t worked together all summer. I’m excited for the year and I’m excited to get started.”

Coaches and teammates said Morris has carried himself no differently than in the past.

“Keef’s been great,” Suns coach Jeff Hornacek said of Morris’ camp behavior.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2015/09/30/phoenix-suns-markieff-morris-remains-happy-camper/73122276/

[RunDogGun]

I will believe in the Suns "D" when I see it on a consistent basis with noticeable effort. Perhaps I'm jaded, but we've heard the "D" word before.

We haven't had. DPOY in the center spot, and we also have very good defenders at both the 1 and the 3 spot, and decent at the 2 and 4 spots. We picked up decent defenders in Weems and Price. Len is solid, and Goodwin and Warren are decent as well. I think the only question marks is Tele and Booker. And I thought Booker wasn't bad on defense in the SL.

Overall I don't see weak defenders in our normal rotation. They all seem eager, and willing, so I don't see how we can look at past teams to gauge this group.

We need Morris to focus on rebounding, and we need everyone to hit open shots. After that, I think we have a solid rotation group and finally a defensive anchor in Chandler, who will be a vocal leader on defense. It will be amazing if Tyson can rub off on Len and Morris.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I will believe in the Suns "D" when I see it on a consistent basis with noticeable effort. Perhaps I'm jaded, but we've heard the "D" word before.

We haven't had. DPOY in the center spot, and we also have very good defenders at both the 1 and the 3 spot, and decent at the 2 and 4 spots. We picked up decent defenders in Weems and Price. Len is solid, and Goodwin and Warren are decent as well. I think the only question marks is Tele and Booker. And I thought Booker wasn't bad on defense in the SL.

Overall I don't see weak defenders in our normal rotation. They all seem eager, and willing, so I don't see how we can look at past teams to gauge this group.

We need Morris to focus on rebounding, and we need everyone to hit open shots. After that, I think we have a solid rotation group and finally a defensive anchor in Chandler, who will be a vocal leader on defense. It will be amazing if Tyson can rub off on Len and Morris.

People are really sleeping on this team. Strange, too, because our defense should be good, and our bench should be killer. With Chandler/Len, we should have legit (elite?) rim protection on the court at all times. And with either Knight or Bled on the court at all times - that means we'll essentially have starter-quality minutes from the 1 and 5 spots for the whole 48 when we're healthy. That's a huge advantage, and I have a hard time believing that we suck so bad in spots 2-4 that we won't have at least an above-average squad.

In particular, I think the Grizz look ready to be taken down a notch. And while I like the Jazz, their backcourt is gruesome. And everyone's loving the Pels, but that's a very unpredictable group of players. The locks are GSW, SAS, HOU, LAC and OKC - and IMO, that's it. I really don't know what to expect out of Sacramento, but otherwise - there. That's our competition. And I said earlier this summer, it's all about chemistry.

[nevetsov]

^ Dallas takes a step back this year, too.

All this talk of Goodwin/ Weems/ Booker fighting for the 3rd guard minutes, don't forget we have Bogdanovic probably next year too!

Even if you consider Knight the backup point with overflow minutes at SG, and Weems the placeholder at SG until Bogdanovic comes over, you still have to make a decision between giving minutes to Booker or Archie.

Archie's main problem as I see it is he can't play alongside Bledsoe because he's not a threatening shooter. And Bledsoe will be on the court for 30+ mpg.

Knight, Weems, Booker and even Bogdanovic all have a leg up in that respect because they are all pretty much interchangeable irrespective of who is playing point.

[lilfishi22]

I like our bench a whole lot more now that Kieff is back in the starting spot. I'm not saying Kieff is the ideal starter (he's an awesome 6th man though) but without him, out 4 spot looks very weak. Starting Telly and having Leuer or Tucker (or Len?) behind him would be a little rough.

The thing I love the most about this group is our balance. Whereas in the past few seasons we were seriously lacking in one or two spots and heavily talented (and overcrowded) in others, this season we're very balanced with a great mix of young talent and experienced vets.

[Jdiddy701]

Keef is not coming off the bench. Period.


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[Safety Pickle]

Why some people are overprotecting Archie? He has nothing except some quickness and sorta driving ability. No defense, no playmaking, no shooting, no BBIQ, not unselfish.

Because he doesn't get consistent minutes. When you only play ~10 minutes a game you have no real chance to develop and play through your mistakes. He's just in a crummy position

[MrMiyagi]

I like all our guys. I think we've got good depth in the event injuries occur. I like that there is competition for minutes. I think we've got the guys to play different kinds of lineups, and hopefully we can exploit the match-ups we get. This is where I can see our guys being able to playing:

Bled/Knight/Archie
Knight/Booker/Weems/Archie
PJ/TJ/Weems/Archie/Booker
Kieff/Teletovic/PJ/Leuer
Tyson/Len/Kieff

Of course, we don't know how Booker, Archie, Weems or Mirza will perform for sure, but it seems like everyone has worked and is working hard leading up to the season.

[Twuan89]

Can't Wait For Suns Basketball To Start.

[Cutter]

Posted on the Suns website.

http://www.nba.com/suns/retorter/suns-retorter-best-yet-come-mcdonough-hornacek-era

At the height of the ‘Cola Wars’ in the 1980s, blind taste tests were all the rage. An administrator would give an unknowing subject two unmarked beverages to drink and decide which tasted best before revealing what they had just sampled. It sounds creepy when you say it, or type it, but it apparently helped sway people's purchasing habits.

It’s an interesting thought experiment to say the least. So here, let the Retorter put his own PHX spin on it. I’ll give you two unlabeled options and you tell me which one leaves the better taste in your mouth.

The following are two scenarios in which the names have been removed to protect the innocent. Team A, through a two-year, 144 game stint, had a record of 82-66, an up-and-coming roster and were in the hunt for a playoff spot. Team B through the same time frame was 58-86 with an aging roster and a downward trajectory. Who, without knowing any other details, would you rather have as your home team?

The answer, like the answer Don Draper would tell you is the right one to the Cola Wars, Coke, is an obvious one. You’d rather be Team A 99 out of 100 times. It might surprise you, but guess what, Team A was the Suns over the first 144 games of the Ryan McDonough-Jeff Hornacek Era. Team B was Phoenix the 144 games prior to their arrival. It’s not too shabby for roughly the first two years of a rebuilding project. To put it in perspective, over the same amount of games the last two years the Philadelphia 76ers, a team in a similar position, were 33-111.

“We have the balance at position, age and we’ve got weapons all over. It is absolutely our best team.”
— Jeff Hornacek

Perspective is a funny thing. The smallest thing can shift it faster than changing the channel when a one-week fantasy league ad comes on. The Suns fell victim to this. The perception of things got skewed last season thanks to a failed experiment in the 3-guard system, physics defying buzzer beaters -- thanks DeMarcus and Blake-- and injuries that netted one win in the final 11 games.

But when you look at it without labels, and without the emotional baggage, you realize that the Suns are in a much better position now than three years ago and that’s before you look at the offseason moves. Moves that showed Ryan McDonough and the front office learned the lessons of the last two years. Moves that gave the roster the veteran leadership in Tyson Chandler, Ronnie Price and Mirza Teletovic, that it lacked and the balance across the board it needed to take the next step.

“The first year we had a bunch of guys who never really played before. We allowed those guys to spread their wings and show what they had,” Coach Hornacek said on media day. “We had a magical year. Last year we had the three guards we had to deal with for most of the year. This year we feel we’re well balanced. Last year we had a lot of youth. We were a really young. This year, Ryan added six veterans to the roster. We have the balance at position, age and we’ve got weapons all over. It is absolutely our best team.”

It’s high praise from the head coach. Praise that was, in part, earned when 10 players reported to Phoenix for workouts weeks before the traditional post-Labor Day arrival time.

This offseason took on a feeling of a group on a mission. Eric Bledsoe was in Phoenix almost as often as triple-digit heat this summer. Brandon Knight and the aforementioned Chandler signed within minutes of free agency beginning and guys like Teletovic and swingman Sonny Weems left more years or more money on the table to join the team. Draft pick Devin Booker has been compared to a young Klay Thompson and has impressed every step of the way on and off the court. T.J. Warren showed off more of what he can do in Summer League and Alex Len continued to grow his game and embrace Chandler as a mentor.

It has all helped put the Suns in a position to take that next step and win this season.

“The past couple years, last year especially, we were a little too young,” McDonough said. “We had too many young guys. It’s tough to win and compete in the Western Conference with a group of young players. Now we have some good young players we’re very excited about, guys like Len, Warren, Goodwin, Booker, those four are the future as well as part of the present. We have some more veteran guys now that we rounded out the roster with like Tyson Chandler, Mirza Teletovic, Weems and Leuer. We think those guys will help us win now.”


We Are PHX

It’s not just a one year goal of making it back to the playoffs that McDonough, Hornacek and the organization have their sights set on. They hope this offseason was just another step in laying the foundation for sustained success.

“We’re looking to build a sustainable core that can compete and win a lot of games now but also have the next wave of players ready to take their place and hopefully climb the ladder in the West and the NBA,” McDonough explained.

It doesn’t take a blind taste test to see that the Suns are on the rise again. It just takes a reminder of just how far we’ve come. Being around the team it’s clear that the camaraderie and energy are something special. Year three under McDonough and Hornacek seems like it’s well on its way to being the best yet.

[bwgood77]

I like all our guys. I think we've got good depth in the event injuries occur. I like that there is competition for minutes. I think we've got the guys to play different kinds of lineups, and hopefully we can exploit the match-ups we get. This is where I can see our guys being able to playing:

Bled/Knight/Archie
Knight/Booker/Weems/Archie
PJ/TJ/Weems/Archie/Booker
Kieff/Teletovic/PJ/Leuer
Tyson/Len/Kieff

Of course, we don't know how Booker, Archie, Weems or Mirza will perform for sure, but it seems like everyone has worked and is working hard leading up to the season.

I definitely think Weems will be ahead of Booker. I think he will get about as many minutes as TJ. I think when Kieff sits, we may often go with Bled, Knight, Weems, PJ, and one of the centers.

[bwgood77]

Posted on the Suns website.

http://www.nba.com/suns/retorter/suns-retorter-best-yet-come-mcdonough-hornacek-era

At the height of the ‘Cola Wars’ in the 1980s, blind taste tests were all the rage. An administrator would give an unknowing subject two unmarked beverages to drink and decide which tasted best before revealing what they had just sampled. It sounds creepy when you say it, or type it, but it apparently helped sway people's purchasing habits.

It’s an interesting thought experiment to say the least. So here, let the Retorter put his own PHX spin on it. I’ll give you two unlabeled options and you tell me which one leaves the better taste in your mouth.

The following are two scenarios in which the names have been removed to protect the innocent. Team A, through a two-year, 144 game stint, had a record of 82-66, an up-and-coming roster and were in the hunt for a playoff spot. Team B through the same time frame was 58-86 with an aging roster and a downward trajectory. Who, without knowing any other details, would you rather have as your home team?

The answer, like the answer Don Draper would tell you is the right one to the Cola Wars, Coke, is an obvious one. You’d rather be Team A 99 out of 100 times. It might surprise you, but guess what, Team A was the Suns over the first 144 games of the Ryan McDonough-Jeff Hornacek Era. Team B was Phoenix the 144 games prior to their arrival. It’s not too shabby for roughly the first two years of a rebuilding project. To put it in perspective, over the same amount of games the last two years the Philadelphia 76ers, a team in a similar position, were 33-111.

“We have the balance at position, age and we’ve got weapons all over. It is absolutely our best team.”
— Jeff Hornacek

Perspective is a funny thing. The smallest thing can shift it faster than changing the channel when a one-week fantasy league ad comes on. The Suns fell victim to this. The perception of things got skewed last season thanks to a failed experiment in the 3-guard system, physics defying buzzer beaters -- thanks DeMarcus and Blake-- and injuries that netted one win in the final 11 games.

But when you look at it without labels, and without the emotional baggage, you realize that the Suns are in a much better position now than three years ago and that’s before you look at the offseason moves. Moves that showed Ryan McDonough and the front office learned the lessons of the last two years. Moves that gave the roster the veteran leadership in Tyson Chandler, Ronnie Price and Mirza Teletovic, that it lacked and the balance across the board it needed to take the next step.

“The first year we had a bunch of guys who never really played before. We allowed those guys to spread their wings and show what they had,” Coach Hornacek said on media day. “We had a magical year. Last year we had the three guards we had to deal with for most of the year. This year we feel we’re well balanced. Last year we had a lot of youth. We were a really young. This year, Ryan added six veterans to the roster. We have the balance at position, age and we’ve got weapons all over. It is absolutely our best team.”

It’s high praise from the head coach. Praise that was, in part, earned when 10 players reported to Phoenix for workouts weeks before the traditional post-Labor Day arrival time.

This offseason took on a feeling of a group on a mission. Eric Bledsoe was in Phoenix almost as often as triple-digit heat this summer. Brandon Knight and the aforementioned Chandler signed within minutes of free agency beginning and guys like Teletovic and swingman Sonny Weems left more years or more money on the table to join the team. Draft pick Devin Booker has been compared to a young Klay Thompson and has impressed every step of the way on and off the court. T.J. Warren showed off more of what he can do in Summer League and Alex Len continued to grow his game and embrace Chandler as a mentor.

It has all helped put the Suns in a position to take that next step and win this season.

“The past couple years, last year especially, we were a little too young,” McDonough said. “We had too many young guys. It’s tough to win and compete in the Western Conference with a group of young players. Now we have some good young players we’re very excited about, guys like Len, Warren, Goodwin, Booker, those four are the future as well as part of the present. We have some more veteran guys now that we rounded out the roster with like Tyson Chandler, Mirza Teletovic, Weems and Leuer. We think those guys will help us win now.”


We Are PHX

It’s not just a one year goal of making it back to the playoffs that McDonough, Hornacek and the organization have their sights set on. They hope this offseason was just another step in laying the foundation for sustained success.

“We’re looking to build a sustainable core that can compete and win a lot of games now but also have the next wave of players ready to take their place and hopefully climb the ladder in the West and the NBA,” McDonough explained.

It doesn’t take a blind taste test to see that the Suns are on the rise again. It just takes a reminder of just how far we’ve come. Being around the team it’s clear that the camaraderie and energy are something special. Year three under McDonough and Hornacek seems like it’s well on its way to being the best yet.

This is exactly why, when people were saying we are a treadmill team I mentioned that in some ways it might seem that way, but we've gone from like a 70 year old guy running on the treadmill gradually slowing down to like a 25 year old running on a treadmill and speeding up.

[Mr Puddles]

I think this Suns team will surprise a lot of people (ESPN has the Suns ranked 11th in the West) . We addressed most of out major issues from last season: interior defence & rebounding (Chandler - and having Len replace Wright/Plumlee as a backup) and three point shooting (Knight, Teletubbie, Booker). Add to that addition by subtraction (TJ replacing Morris as our backup '3') and we've got as good a chance of getting the 7 or 8 spot as any other team in the West.

[Jdiddy701]

I just hope we can make the playoffs and play the Spurs 1st round. I can't stand that team.


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[bwgood77]

I just hope we can make the playoffs and play the Spurs 1st round. I can't stand that team.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

And as we beat the Spurs, LMA thinks "what have I done joining these corpses instead of that young exciting Suns team?"

[lilfishi22]

This is exactly why, when people were saying we are a treadmill team I mentioned that in some ways it might seem that way, but we've gone from like a 70 year old guy running on the treadmill gradually slowing down to like a 25 year old running on a treadmill and speeding up.

The issue is it's so *easy* to label a team a treadmill team and then follows all the negative undertones. If you're not on either extremes (legit contender or blatant tank/rebuild) then you could easily say a team is treadmilling. Then people see we're a treadmill team and automatically assume we're stagnant and in the NBA if you're not going forward then you're going backwards.

[TeamTragic]

I just hope we can make the playoffs and play the Spurs 1st round. I can't stand that team.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I just hope we can make the playoffs and play the Spurs 1st round. I can't stand that team.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

And as we beat the Spurs, LMA thinks "what have I done joining these corpses instead of that young exciting Suns team?"

[Twuan89]

I just hope we can make the playoffs and play the Spurs 1st round. I can't stand that team.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I'm done with playing the Spurs in the playoffs for now, plus I love the fact that the last result was the 2010 Sweep.

[JMac1]

Posted on the Suns website.

http://www.nba.com/suns/retorter/suns-retorter-best-yet-come-mcdonough-hornacek-era

At the height of the ‘Cola Wars’ in the 1980s, blind taste tests were all the rage. An administrator would give an unknowing subject two unmarked beverages to drink and decide which tasted best before revealing what they had just sampled. It sounds creepy when you say it, or type it, but it apparently helped sway people's purchasing habits.

It’s an interesting thought experiment to say the least. So here, let the Retorter put his own PHX spin on it. I’ll give you two unlabeled options and you tell me which one leaves the better taste in your mouth.

The following are two scenarios in which the names have been removed to protect the innocent. Team A, through a two-year, 144 game stint, had a record of 82-66, an up-and-coming roster and were in the hunt for a playoff spot. Team B through the same time frame was 58-86 with an aging roster and a downward trajectory. Who, without knowing any other details, would you rather have as your home team?

The answer, like the answer Don Draper would tell you is the right one to the Cola Wars, Coke, is an obvious one. You’d rather be Team A 99 out of 100 times. It might surprise you, but guess what, Team A was the Suns over the first 144 games of the Ryan McDonough-Jeff Hornacek Era. Team B was Phoenix the 144 games prior to their arrival. It’s not too shabby for roughly the first two years of a rebuilding project. To put it in perspective, over the same amount of games the last two years the Philadelphia 76ers, a team in a similar position, were 33-111.

“We have the balance at position, age and we’ve got weapons all over. It is absolutely our best team.”
— Jeff Hornacek

Perspective is a funny thing. The smallest thing can shift it faster than changing the channel when a one-week fantasy league ad comes on. The Suns fell victim to this. The perception of things got skewed last season thanks to a failed experiment in the 3-guard system, physics defying buzzer beaters -- thanks DeMarcus and Blake-- and injuries that netted one win in the final 11 games.

But when you look at it without labels, and without the emotional baggage, you realize that the Suns are in a much better position now than three years ago and that’s before you look at the offseason moves. Moves that showed Ryan McDonough and the front office learned the lessons of the last two years. Moves that gave the roster the veteran leadership in Tyson Chandler, Ronnie Price and Mirza Teletovic, that it lacked and the balance across the board it needed to take the next step.

“The first year we had a bunch of guys who never really played before. We allowed those guys to spread their wings and show what they had,” Coach Hornacek said on media day. “We had a magical year. Last year we had the three guards we had to deal with for most of the year. This year we feel we’re well balanced. Last year we had a lot of youth. We were a really young. This year, Ryan added six veterans to the roster. We have the balance at position, age and we’ve got weapons all over. It is absolutely our best team.”

It’s high praise from the head coach. Praise that was, in part, earned when 10 players reported to Phoenix for workouts weeks before the traditional post-Labor Day arrival time.

This offseason took on a feeling of a group on a mission. Eric Bledsoe was in Phoenix almost as often as triple-digit heat this summer. Brandon Knight and the aforementioned Chandler signed within minutes of free agency beginning and guys like Teletovic and swingman Sonny Weems left more years or more money on the table to join the team. Draft pick Devin Booker has been compared to a young Klay Thompson and has impressed every step of the way on and off the court. T.J. Warren showed off more of what he can do in Summer League and Alex Len continued to grow his game and embrace Chandler as a mentor.

It has all helped put the Suns in a position to take that next step and win this season.

“The past couple years, last year especially, we were a little too young,” McDonough said. “We had too many young guys. It’s tough to win and compete in the Western Conference with a group of young players. Now we have some good young players we’re very excited about, guys like Len, Warren, Goodwin, Booker, those four are the future as well as part of the present. We have some more veteran guys now that we rounded out the roster with like Tyson Chandler, Mirza Teletovic, Weems and Leuer. We think those guys will help us win now.”


We Are PHX

It’s not just a one year goal of making it back to the playoffs that McDonough, Hornacek and the organization have their sights set on. They hope this offseason was just another step in laying the foundation for sustained success.

“We’re looking to build a sustainable core that can compete and win a lot of games now but also have the next wave of players ready to take their place and hopefully climb the ladder in the West and the NBA,” McDonough explained.

It doesn’t take a blind taste test to see that the Suns are on the rise again. It just takes a reminder of just how far we’ve come. Being around the team it’s clear that the camaraderie and energy are something special. Year three under McDonough and Hornacek seems like it’s well on its way to being the best yet.

This is exactly why, when people were saying we are a treadmill team I mentioned that in some ways it might seem that way, but we've gone from like a 70 year old guy running on the treadmill gradually slowing down to like a 25 year old running on a treadmill and speeding up.

This is how I feel. I like where we are......I love where we are. It is the best place we could be without a superstar. Bledsoe could be better, Knight could be better, Len could be better, Warren could be better, Kieff could be better, Archie could be better, and Booker could be a steal!!!

Those are just too many possibilities not to get better and still be very young.

Star potential: Bledsoe, Knight, and Booker.